Yeah I agree. I know more that identify as gamers (and the many fragments of that identity) or roleplayers rather than geek. I hear you have a problem with that (and that is entirely fine on my end, I'm not one for reductive labels) Geek is so American many non Americans don't go for it.Scrumpmonkey said:I think what Bob is confusing here is that there isn't just one "Unified Geek experience", he's always talking about the newly fractured nature of modern culture but most pundits are more behind the curve than they think, it's been this way for a good while. Culture has been fractured and geek hasn't really been an issue for an entire generation. I've seen this developing for over a decade.Elf Defiler Korgan said:Yeah I certainly agree (Australian here) with what you are saying. I copped a bit of flak in my youth for my geekiness and I am in Bob's cohort, but it seems to me that things have really changed. Geek is mainstream, geek isn't always white male anymore. Geek and nerd culture is very Asian now and woman are heavily into it (perhaps as an escape from the banal cultures or subcultures). I tutor a range of high school students, and these kids are lucky, geekiness doesn't lead to much in the way of bullying, it is normalised. Kids play video games, gone are the days of weird kids play video games. I have been very happy with what I have been seeing across the geek countries (anime, dnd, board game, pc, ps) and it isn't just young white males playing anymore. The US, is in many ways messed up, and geeks copped a lot of grief there, for in a country supposedly committed to individualism, the individuals have always taken a thorough beating for being individualistic.Scrumpmonkey said:Look, Bob. I was never bullied in high-school, I've always had friends and aside from moving into the world of 'adult friends' i.e. people you like to see but can only see occasionally because of work/relationships/home/obligations, I've never really felt that much of an outsider. In fact it's only in the last couple of years it's really really hit me there are people who DON'T share my admittedly middle class set of experiences.
I don't have that idea that i am some-how an outsider. I've always had like-minded people to talk to. These ideas of the "Shared Geek experience", "Persecution mindset" and "Nice guy culture" are pretty alien to me. To put it differently; nerds have always been accepted for a large sub-section of my generation. We didn't feel like nerds because it was never really brought up.
Maybe it's more of an extension of not having the same cultural touch-stones as the US does (or as horrible state school system). There is a very British tradition of eccentricity and the lording of the maverick that dates back to the Victorians. Maybe it's also a extension of the traditional class system where a good education and intelligence were seen as evidence of being of higher status or that technically minded people have been lauded as an extension of British greatness for decades.
Hell the 1980s saw a massive boom in the bedroom coder and cheap personal, programmable computers. Even at that time being 15 and coding a videogame was actually something pretty cool to do. British culture just isn't as afraid of intelligence as classic American culture was.
Other places are a geek paradise. I am in Melbourne, and it is a fantastic time to be a geek (wish I didn't have to work so much). My rpg group is mostly female, I game online and locally with people of many different races and now, with geeks of many different ages (some are getting into their 40s and 50s now, but a new wave of geek 15 year olds are also here contributing). The geek games then become about having fun and sharing interests. There isn't much time for early Geek American culture of dudes being dicks to everyone different.
Honestly, chatting to a group of young nerds (of quite varied racial backgrounds--one is from Nepal) about what they have been playing and making some suggestions they try the old classics or the less mainstream games of the latest indie boom, makes me tremendously happy. Things are looking up Bob, not down.
So he needs to realize that not all 'Geeks' are bitter, male and heterosexual or self identify as 'Geeks' (i think the label has become a bit kitsch). I don't consider myself really part of nerd 'culture', i don't define myself as a 'gamer' and i especially don't buy into 'Gamer culture'. In fact the place i sometimes feel most an outsider is within places that embrace the concepts that Bob seems to think are universal.
As a community i think many of us would be VERY quick to distance ourselves from the more 'Euphoric' side of things if you know what i mean.
Gamer culture has promise, so I hope you won't throw it away so quickly. The indie revival is a good time to be a gamer (and game widely).
Sorry Bob, but you are kind of behind the times and the great fracturing and neo-inclusiveness. Xbox live isn't all there is to nerdness, if nerd even works as a label anymore.