On Nazis

[Wayward Sean]

I personally believe that Nazis believed that what they did would earn them the title of "hero" or "freedom fighter" in their respective culture, much like a religious extremist may believe when they attempt some manner of suicide mission.

I don't feel like it was so much about glory and heroism as it was fear. When Hitler shouts something and the entire gun-wielding army around you starts chanting...you don't want to be that one person who goes, "wait, this is a terrible idea!" because there's the fear that everyone around you will just kill you and keep chanting. I see it as more of a "I'll kill people to follow-the-herd for fear's sake" rather than "I can't wait to go down in history as the freedom fighter who slaughtered this helpless family."

 

[Lovesfool]

I actually have two questions (am quite proud of myself for thinking them up, doesn't happen every day).

1. When will the industry realize than there have been enough games about WW2 and stop making any more. At least give us a break for a few years. Give us the chance to actually miss killing Nazi's.

2. Has McDonald's sued Yahtzee and the Escapist for the comment regarding the quality of their food. If yes, for how much money.

3. How come there is no badge for watching Zero Punctuation. There seems to be a badge for everything else.

(I know this is 3 and not 2 questions, but what can you do?)

 

[House_Vet]

The thing about Nazis is you completely obliterate the need for a vaguely balanced ideology for an enemy force (laziness) + they're westerners so no racism accusations either... Oh well. We can only hope for properly written, charismatic, deluded and non-reich-cloning bad guys some time far far in the future.

@Lovesfool: Probably because everyone watches ZP

 

[Angerwing]

never thought the Wehrmacht as the bad guys, only the SS.

On the other hand, the german ppl did put Hitler in power so accountability is still there.

Hitler took power through extremely tricky political maneuvering. He pretty much manipulated Hindenburg into making him Chancellor, and then he gave himself complete power. There was no democracy in Hitler's rise. With the help of the Freikorps, who pretty much became the SA (who were later absorbed by the SS), Hitler strong-armed his way around political Germany with his own private army. He even attempted a coup.

So yeah, you can't hold the German people accountable for Hitler's rise.

 

[Hurr Durr Derp]

<quote=Yahtzee>Censors can't complain about corrupting the children because installing the adult content becomes a choice made by responsible human beings, as alien a concept as that might be to the Australian government.

...but if the buying and playing of the game apparently aren't choices made by responsible human beings (according to the Australian government), why would downloading extra content be any different?

 

[GrinningManiac]

I'm sick and tired of all media assuming that, by the time of Normandy, every single German soldier was a diehard, xenophobic sociopath

Most of them, towards the end, were disillusioned veterans, slightly unhinged antisematists, poor men down on their luck, or, the most COMMON background of all, a conscripted farmboy.

To say that their lack of general bloodlust can be absolved (in villany terms) by the fact they were defending a very loudly antisemite nation proves jack. hardly anyone knew about the death camps, people were too scared to disagree with the government, most of Europe at the time was antisemite anyway, and had been since, oh, ZERO ANNO DOMINI

I would give ANYTHING for a game on the German side. Starts as a farmboy, conscripted against his family's will right after D-Day, and taken to the frontlines of the German retreat, before he is either killed in Berlin in an emotional and terrifying climax, or he runs away (much like the current Pope) and returns to his family

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

Good article

i'd read an article on another site saying we should stop using Natzi's not because its lazy, but because it lessens the memory of what was endured in Natzi Germany by the people etc
interesting read, if i can find it, ill post a link

 

[Arquinsiel]

What about the Nazis that attempted to assassinate Hitler? Many of them that were involved in the attempts perfectly understood the systemic evil that he was institutionalizing in the German government, and, as the war wound down, they even understood that they had to make (even an implausible attempt) in order to try to save the honor of their country in the eyes of history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20_July_plot

BTW, of course I know they were in the minority -- if there had been more of these people, than maybe Hitler wouldn't have survived the attempt!

What you've done here is open a whole can of worms. There is actually a difference between the Wehrmacht and the Nazi Party. Even watching Valkyrie would have given you a hint as to why removing the SS from the equation was important. Furthermore, there were 42 seperate attempts on Hitler's life, leading to this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitlekz83hawz

 

[DTWolfwood]

noooo WW2 shooters should never die!

the old timey weapons had so much more personality than modern day guns. Who among you shooter fans can say you don't like the semi auto Garand rifle and how it made the distinctive 'PING' noise when its empty! or the Lethality on which all k98 bolt action rifles seem to be in these games. I miss the single shot rifles that dont come with a sniper scopes attached! XD

The slow chug of a MP40 or the smooth spray of your Tommy gun. The crazy recoil of a STG44 or the weighty feel of a BAR. The streaming sound of a MG42 or the rat tat tat of the good old 30 cal. Walter PPk to the Unique Luger. Lets not forget the 1911 45 cal. pistol.

Man WW2 guns are just so much more fun than all the spray'n pray weapons of today.

Incidentally my fave gun now is the FAL in MW2 and ill let yall guess y

 

[Corporal Yakob]

I'm sick and tired of all media assuming that, by the time of Normandy, every single German soldier was a diehard, xenophobic sociopath

Most of them, towards the end, were disillusioned veterans, slightly unhinged antisematists, poor men down on their luck, or, the most COMMON background of all, a conscripted farmboy.

To say that their lack of general bloodlust can be absolved (in villany terms) by the fact they were defending a very loudly antisemite nation proves jack. hardly anyone knew about the death camps, people were too scared to disagree with the government, most of Europe at the time was antisemite anyway, and had been since, oh, ZERO ANNO DOMINI

I would give ANYTHING for a game on the German side. Starts as a farmboy, conscripted against his family's will right after D-Day, and taken to the frontlines of the German retreat, before he is either killed in Berlin in an emotional and terrifying climax, or he runs away (much like the current Pope) and returns to his family

I completely agree.
Or perhaps it could be volunteer for the Wehrmact in the heady early days, Blitzkrieg through Poland and France before spending the next 4 years of living hell on the Eastern Front before being killed in Berlin.

 

[GrinningManiac]

I'm sick and tired of all media assuming that, by the time of Normandy, every single German soldier was a diehard, xenophobic sociopath

Most of them, towards the end, were disillusioned veterans, slightly unhinged antisematists, poor men down on their luck, or, the most COMMON background of all, a conscripted farmboy.

To say that their lack of general bloodlust can be absolved (in villany terms) by the fact they were defending a very loudly antisemite nation proves jack. hardly anyone knew about the death camps, people were too scared to disagree with the government, most of Europe at the time was antisemite anyway, and had been since, oh, ZERO ANNO DOMINI

I would give ANYTHING for a game on the German side. Starts as a farmboy, conscripted against his family's will right after D-Day, and taken to the frontlines of the German retreat, before he is either killed in Berlin in an emotional and terrifying climax, or he runs away (much like the current Pope) and returns to his family

I completely agree.
Or perhaps it could be volunteer for the Wehrmact in the heady early days, Blitzkrieg through Poland and France before spending the next 4 years of living hell on the Eastern Front before being killed in Berlin.

THAT WOULD BE EPIC

Even better if there was a contreversial scene where, in first person, you partake in the swearing of alligence to Der Fuher after Nacht der Langer Messer (sp?)

 

[KDR_11k]

Nazis aren't even Always Chaotic Evil (TM), look at stuff like KdF [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KdF].

 

[Hemothorax]

Actually, there is a game about how bad McFood is: http://www.mcvideogame.com/

 

[DTWolfwood]

never thought the Wehrmacht as the bad guys, only the SS.

On the other hand, the german ppl did put Hitler in power so accountability is still there.

Hitler took power through extremely tricky political maneuvering. He pretty much manipulated Hindenburg into making him Chancellor, and then he gave himself complete power. There was no democracy in Hitler's rise. With the help of the Freikorps, who pretty much became the SA (who were later absorbed by the SS), Hitler strong-armed his way around political Germany with his own private army. He even attempted a coup.

So yeah, you can't hold the German people accountable for Hitler's rise.

strong arm tactics or not, the german ppl cheered in glee waving their flags and doing their signature solute when Chancellor Palpatine Hitler came parading by in the early years b4 the SS struck fear into each an everyone of them.

But hey we've all been there when an idiot took power and dragged us into a war.

 

[DemonicVixen]

Hmmm, without looking at the link can i ask something?

Why the hell do we still consider all Germans to be bad considering Hitler is long dead and it was only him that made Germany become bastards. Why must we now still use that evil term "Nazi" when its offensive to many and banned in some places. I hate when my boyfriend goes on about "Nazi Zombies", some weird game thing he plays. I hate it. I know a couple of people from Germany who were really nice and do not and never have supported Hitler's ideas in the past. Why must we still talk about German people as if they are scum. Its not fair... Ok now im going to watch the link.

 

[Xersues]

You're absolutely right that the term Nazi is on par with demons and the devil. A seemingly "always-overtold-always-black-and-white" bad guy. Complete Zoroastrianism of good guy and bad guy no matter the cost.

Since when isn't buying something an "opt-in" action. No one spoon feeds these kids fucking video games.

Go on Timmy. Eat your god damn razer-Os in the morning.

 

[Exterminas]

Of course the nazis thougth they were the good ones. Eichmann even said that he always thougth himself to be acting according to the categorical imperative. That makes it even more amazing how the games industry is able to turn that into some kind of reaonsless cartoon-villianism. I would like to see more games about nazis that actually take time to show their twisted vision of the world and how it should be.

But then there would be the risk of some people interpretating immersive gameplay and accuarte story-telling as nazi propaganda.

 

[yaik7a]

There is a mod of WW2 where the Nazis have dino's and use for warfare most of any PC Gamers could play it cause its a source mod. And you play a pateologist. (Who of course is a american)

 

[Requi3m]

Nazis? Yeah, by our math, all nazis are evil. Problem is, you're rarely actually killing nazis in video games, or on the WWII battlefield. You're killing the soldiers out fighting for their country, which happens to be controlled by nazis. On a related note, if I've got my history right here, then if you happened to ask one of said soldiers what their opinion of the Allies were, the term 'baby boiling bastards' would have likely come up. Pretty sure that's what the German propaganda going around at the time was. Or maybe that was North American propaganda...

The worst nazi soldiers were likely the ones raised from children to fight for Hitler. They had a specific name but I can't remember what it was. They were his elite troops though and pretty sure they're the ones that ran the concentration camps and what not.

You're thinking of the SS (Shutzstaffel/protection force), they were the ones who ran the concentration camps and committed the worst atrocities. Not to be mistaken with the Waffen SS (Weapon protection/ force) which were Germany's military elite indoctrinated with SS views.

Actually, I think he's talking about the Hitlerjugend. They were all young children being prepared to be the next generation of Nazi Party members. Hook 'm while they're young.

As for the German army, I agree with the people defending the common German soldier. They were mostly scared something would happen to them or their families, so they did what they were trained to do. The propaganda put out by Goebbels and his crew helped keep people in the dark. Goebbels is seen as one of the most intelligent members of the Nazi Party. And don't forget a lot of Germans were still pretty pissed about how they were exploited to ruin by other European countries after WW1. Hitler was one of them.

Also, the German army didn't consist of only Germans, not by a long shot. They drafted a lot of soldiers from the countries they conquered. My grandfather was one of them. He was 18 when Germany invaded Poland and got put in the army by force. When the Allies invaded France he was there with a lot of soldiers forced to serve. They shot their commanders and defected to the Allies. He came back in a tank! True story .

 

[Ziren]

Nazis aren't even Always Chaotic Evil (TM), look at stuff like KdF [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KdF].

The cliché nazi is lawful evil, not chaotic.