I'm wondering, how long does it take before people stop whining about past wrongs? I don't see people complaining and making games out of The Crusades, or the Spanish Inquisition. Just Nazis and WWII. Will it be 10 more years? 20? Or will WWII manage to keep being bitched on and have games made out of it until the world stops spinning?
On Nazis
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
The Nazi's were evil, but Yahtzee makes a good point. After over a hundred games that feature the Nazi's as the main villians, it really does start to get old and makes the creators of those games look lazy in the story development department. Creators of games, movies, and tv shows need to start showing more orginality.
The correct background music for reading this article
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MReV9dkAVhY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MReV9dkAVhY
arent we forgetting that a propper nazi would hate everything to much to care what you thought about him anyway?
most germans were just swept up in a hatred movement because they were in a bad place economically and used a new wave of migrant workers as targets, they weren't all die hard nazis
its a good point about nazi's being lazy writing
i mean if i pitched a novel where the protagonist has to fight against an invading force of people from another country then I might have a shot at getting it sold but then if the publisher asks me why the force is invading his country and I replied, "cause they are just evil, trust me..." then I would get thrown the hell out of the publishers without a second thought
but because its history its ok?
hmm
most germans were just swept up in a hatred movement because they were in a bad place economically and used a new wave of migrant workers as targets, they weren't all die hard nazis
its a good point about nazi's being lazy writing
i mean if i pitched a novel where the protagonist has to fight against an invading force of people from another country then I might have a shot at getting it sold but then if the publisher asks me why the force is invading his country and I replied, "cause they are just evil, trust me..." then I would get thrown the hell out of the publishers without a second thought
but because its history its ok?
hmm
This is the core point he was trying to make right here, though I'm sure the vast majority of this thread (being a thread on an Internet Forum) would rather dwell on the greatly-conflicting-with-popular-sentiment truth that atrocities were committed constantly throughout history that match or exceed that of the Holocaust. There's a great deal more villains you can pull out of history than video games would have us believe, but by and large video games are hesistant to use them... probably because many of them are still in power.Yahtzee said:
nazis are and have always been and always will be lazy storytelling. unless you try something totally ridiculous (inglorious basterds) then its not worth trying. but given the games industry, nazis have tried everything from time-travelling to cloning to magic to industrialization to alien chatting and everything in between. there's nothing more nazis can do and, as you said, nothing more to kill nazis with.
btw, the idea of cooking mama going berserk and stabbing people is a wonderful idea that nintendo should adopt to win over its hardcore fanbase its been ignoring.
btw, the idea of cooking mama going berserk and stabbing people is a wonderful idea that nintendo should adopt to win over its hardcore fanbase its been ignoring.
Too late already down with the endless multiplayer games set in WW2, thus another reason to never use Nazis as characters ever againPh0t0n1c Ph34r said:
I agree with some of the things being said, but I also think that the whole sustained picture of the 1940's Nazi still hanging with us today is used to make a different impact rather than being the result of lazy storytelling.
Think about it for a second (well, it's a huge freaking wall of text so it might take a few minutes):
Nazis killed a lot of Jews during WW2, and after that the word "antisemitism" was born to "protect" Jews from ill treatment. You can be forced to pay large amounts of money for throwing shit at Jews but not for killing Muslims, invading countries, judging, blacklisting and banning people because of their religion or country of origin.
At the same time, Jews owns a great amount of the world when it comes to money (around 140 of the Forbes400 are Jews), they control all of the banks and a large amount of the media that is fed upon us every day. Every other documentary on any channel is about the evil Nazis and how they almost killed all Jews during a war that no one in present day even ever experienced. If a certain group of people controls what is being said and not about themselves and their "enemies", who knows what's true and not?
We have a corporation in my country called Bonnier Media, who controls over 70% of all the magazines and news papers being released, as well as other kinds of media. History magazines are always filled to about 50% about the evil Nazis and how much the Jews suffered, and to the other half about "lies" like that there is historical/scientific proof against Jesus' existence and that the Muslims have a really barbaric heritage and so on. On the other hand, there is NEVER a single negative thing against any Jewish thing whatsoever. The news papers points out Jew haters and scares us with Muslim terrorist acts, Christian goofs and Catholic pedophiles.
But never a single negative word against the Jewish people.
Why?
Because it's antisemitism, and it's "wrong" by law.
Look at Israel VS Libya, or any other country for that matter. If someone so much as coughs in Israel's direction, the US is right there with an edge against their throats. Israel can build a huge freaking wall crossing Libya's borders without any other country interfering, but when someone complains about Jews you can be sure to read about it in the papers the following morning.
What I'm getting at is that in my eyes, everything about Nazism and Jews today, and any other religious/political group for that matter, is to a high degree complete and utter bullshit that they feed us with so that we should feel pity for the Jews and hate everyone else, so that the Jews can buy the whole world and control everything we buy, watch and read. It's a really simple formula that seems to work out perfectly fine.
Have you ever played a game where you run around and shoot Jews?
No?
Have you ever played a game where you run around and shoot Muslims?
You have? Gee, I wonder why that is.
Religion, sexual orientations and nationality is "protected" by hate speech laws, but antisemitism is strictly defined as "hate towards Jews". Hell, there's even a law against holocaust denial in Belgium, how stupid isn't that. If I walk around in a major city wearing a sign reading "the massacre of thousands of Armenian inhabitants by Americans in early 1900's never happened" everyone would probably just say "cool, whatever", but if I were to wear a sign reading "WW2 is a lie, the holocaust never happened" I would be shredded to pieces within 10 minutes.
Besides, as mentioned earlier not all soldiers during WW2 could have been Nazis. I bet many of them were "ordinary" soldiers fighting for their country, because it was their JOB as soldiers. Refusing to do your job as a soldier makes you a deserter, and back then it was punishable by DEATH.
I'm by no means a guy who hates Jews or any other group. But the evidence is there, and to reject it because it would give birth to a new world war if you questioned Jewish businessmen and their wet dream of ruling the world is just plain stupid.
It's all about profit in the world of business, but if that means feeding the people with an unfair perspective against a certain group it's all OK? The WW2 games are just one product among many that helps manipulate us.
I do not mean to provoke anyone or call the Jewish people dishonest or whatever, I'm just trying to make a point and I don't see why this text would make me a Nazi. If I wrote about Muslims and it wasn't "as bad", wouldn't that really just make the ones calling me a Nazi even worse discriminating bastards? No one is worth more than another because of their religious or political beliefs, that's my point.
And yes, I might have gone ahead of myself as far as this discussion goes, but I stand for what I write and if that disturbs you please don't hesitate to open a discussion as long as it's on a discussion-based level of conversation and not just calling me an idiot without getting my picture.
Think about it for a second (well, it's a huge freaking wall of text so it might take a few minutes):
Nazis killed a lot of Jews during WW2, and after that the word "antisemitism" was born to "protect" Jews from ill treatment. You can be forced to pay large amounts of money for throwing shit at Jews but not for killing Muslims, invading countries, judging, blacklisting and banning people because of their religion or country of origin.
At the same time, Jews owns a great amount of the world when it comes to money (around 140 of the Forbes400 are Jews), they control all of the banks and a large amount of the media that is fed upon us every day. Every other documentary on any channel is about the evil Nazis and how they almost killed all Jews during a war that no one in present day even ever experienced. If a certain group of people controls what is being said and not about themselves and their "enemies", who knows what's true and not?
We have a corporation in my country called Bonnier Media, who controls over 70% of all the magazines and news papers being released, as well as other kinds of media. History magazines are always filled to about 50% about the evil Nazis and how much the Jews suffered, and to the other half about "lies" like that there is historical/scientific proof against Jesus' existence and that the Muslims have a really barbaric heritage and so on. On the other hand, there is NEVER a single negative thing against any Jewish thing whatsoever. The news papers points out Jew haters and scares us with Muslim terrorist acts, Christian goofs and Catholic pedophiles.
But never a single negative word against the Jewish people.
Why?
Because it's antisemitism, and it's "wrong" by law.
Look at Israel VS Libya, or any other country for that matter. If someone so much as coughs in Israel's direction, the US is right there with an edge against their throats. Israel can build a huge freaking wall crossing Libya's borders without any other country interfering, but when someone complains about Jews you can be sure to read about it in the papers the following morning.
What I'm getting at is that in my eyes, everything about Nazism and Jews today, and any other religious/political group for that matter, is to a high degree complete and utter bullshit that they feed us with so that we should feel pity for the Jews and hate everyone else, so that the Jews can buy the whole world and control everything we buy, watch and read. It's a really simple formula that seems to work out perfectly fine.
Have you ever played a game where you run around and shoot Jews?
No?
Have you ever played a game where you run around and shoot Muslims?
You have? Gee, I wonder why that is.
Religion, sexual orientations and nationality is "protected" by hate speech laws, but antisemitism is strictly defined as "hate towards Jews". Hell, there's even a law against holocaust denial in Belgium, how stupid isn't that. If I walk around in a major city wearing a sign reading "the massacre of thousands of Armenian inhabitants by Americans in early 1900's never happened" everyone would probably just say "cool, whatever", but if I were to wear a sign reading "WW2 is a lie, the holocaust never happened" I would be shredded to pieces within 10 minutes.
Besides, as mentioned earlier not all soldiers during WW2 could have been Nazis. I bet many of them were "ordinary" soldiers fighting for their country, because it was their JOB as soldiers. Refusing to do your job as a soldier makes you a deserter, and back then it was punishable by DEATH.
I'm by no means a guy who hates Jews or any other group. But the evidence is there, and to reject it because it would give birth to a new world war if you questioned Jewish businessmen and their wet dream of ruling the world is just plain stupid.
It's all about profit in the world of business, but if that means feeding the people with an unfair perspective against a certain group it's all OK? The WW2 games are just one product among many that helps manipulate us.
I do not mean to provoke anyone or call the Jewish people dishonest or whatever, I'm just trying to make a point and I don't see why this text would make me a Nazi. If I wrote about Muslims and it wasn't "as bad", wouldn't that really just make the ones calling me a Nazi even worse discriminating bastards? No one is worth more than another because of their religious or political beliefs, that's my point.
And yes, I might have gone ahead of myself as far as this discussion goes, but I stand for what I write and if that disturbs you please don't hesitate to open a discussion as long as it's on a discussion-based level of conversation and not just calling me an idiot without getting my picture.
first, I never said anything about the writing being the best. I admit the writing is not the greatest.8-Bit_Jack said:
Second No need to call the series a load of tripe you aren't causing me to like it any less you are just showing how much of an ass you are.
Third the series is quite obvious about where hirano got his ideas from.
Fourth i only brought up hellsing because it uses Nazis as the villian in an interesting way unlike a lot of other things with nazis as villians.
Fifth quoting me just so you could say bad things of Hellsing tells me you are just a very sad individual whose head is lodged up their own anus.
Congrats Yahtzee, you realized something we all did Years ago. Not wanting to sound like a dick, but if you could stop blaming America because that's what is "in" right now, then you would have come to the conclusion years ago.
I actually really like that opt in idea, it means we get all the content we'd want to see in a particular game and immediately castrates the censors ever increasing nannying. Of course i'm sure some people will still ninny on about how we shouldn't even have the opportunity to be exposed to such debaucherous material. Unfortunately there will always exist self-righteous people/groups who feel they know what is best for all of us.
But frankly... [HEADING=1]f**k them![/HEADING]
But frankly... [HEADING=1]f**k them![/HEADING]
Pillock: Okay then, how about we set it in a Central European country, which happens to be a totallitarian dictatorship, around the mid 20th century and you play as an American badass?SnootyEnglishman said:
