On RPG Elements

[Noone From Nowhere]

Australia is trying to 'sanitize' the Internet? Ha! I find it hilarious that the both of the former British colonies that I call home either turn a blind eye to the Net (except for the more puritanical lot and their power diminishes by the day) or allows one to pay a 'fee' (bribe) in advance to get away with offending the public at large. Ah, but the sons shouldn't have to pay for the sins of the father, as it were. That isn't right at all.
Now, if they gave the filters only to those concerned parents who want to hide their kiddies from the big bad world yet don't care enough to simply remove the internet connection, that would be just lovely.
As for the topic of the main article, responsible use of 'skill leveling' such as going from Expert to Godly (in other words, where Bat-Man is normally situated in his movies and not-so-funny books)is welcome by me but if the karate master can't even pull off green belt level moves without massive grinding or a robot (for whom skills literally are programs) has to learn how to shoot it's bazooka arm harder somehow, it ruins the whole atmosphere.

Maybe if Fable had handled the aging right, this would be a perfect excuse to start game heroes off as kids who will be at least 30-something before maxing out their skills.
I agree that it would have no place in a shooter or fighting game or what have you.

Before going off to war or entering a tourney to show off one's skills, one would expect that one is either already (one of)the best there is at what one does or get eliminated in the preliminaries.

 

[Jenx]

Mary Sue

You keep using this word and I don't think it means what you think it means.

And I've been saying this for years now - jRPGs are NOT RPGs. They are too complex adventure games. That's IT. And ya know what? That's not bad! Hell one of my favorite western RPGs - Planescape: Torment is really just a complicated adventure game and not an RPG either. Ironic how that works, huh?

 

[TheGreenManalishi]

Other sites added to the proposed blacklist included ones related to suicide methods, pro-anorexia, voluntary euthanasia and anti-abortion, and whether or not you agree with anything these sites promote, they all represent individual choice. They also propose to block websites that sell banned material. This would include sites like PlayAsia.com, which I frequently use to import US-released games that have been refused classification here. Attempts have even been made to ban or restrict scrutiny of the filtering proposal itself.

I didn't know Yahtzee lived in a Metal Gear Solid 2-reality.

I need scissors! 61!

 

[Aardvark]

Im sorry but.. I think i missed the episode where Paddington goes on a "marmalade" infused bloodthirsty rampage

Suppressed by lobbyists for Harrods. Along with the resulting Paddington Action Playset, complete with the Anti-Bear Ninja Nazi Squads who were deployed to stop Ursageddon, but ultimately failed, resulting in the Bearpocalypse.

 

[Nimbus]

Other sites added to the proposed blacklist included ones related to suicide methods, pro-anorexia... they all represent individual choice.

To far dude. I don't agree with blocking any sites, but that doesn't mean that you can equate mental illnesses to individual choice. I mean, suicide... maybe.(chronically ill patients may wish to end their own suffering) But anorexia is a disease. I have seen first hand the destruction it can wreak.

 

[the protaginist]

I can see one way that RPG elements could work in a shooter. Instead of starting off with shitty weapons, you start off with pretty good weapons. And all of the upgrades you add to it do a variety of different things at the detriment of other things. For instance, you put a silencer on your pistol. This reduces the sound and flashbang of the pistol, but it also reduces the damage and stopping-power that your pistol has. Alternatively, let's say you start putting incendiary rounds in your ak-47. Does more damage and sets your enemies on fire, but the weapon is less accurate. That sort of thing.

As for the internet ban... Actually, I think the US is already trying something similar.

Sort of like what Farcry 2 was trying to do, only instead of buying different weapons, just upgrading the ones you have?

 

[Kajin]

I turned around and there was a guy dressed in a bear costume.

Back on Topic:
I got a good laugh out of this.

 

[Anonymous Overlord]

Half life did it best, you find weapons as you go along effectively making you mare bad ass as you go. not really an RPG element but hey it worked. (except for half-life 2 where you're expected to play the whole middle act with the gravity gun)

 

[pneuma08]

Spoiler

RPG elements nominally give developers an easy way to reward players for playing, to improve the character over time so that the game feels different, to reduce frustration by letting players improve not directly through storyline progression to get past difficult parts (and enabling grinding sometimes), and to diversify characters by making them play differently based on the development choices made.

If you notice the majority of games today with RPG elements, they don't. Rather than giving a choice between rock, paper and scissors (and letting you choose only one to keep upgraded throughout the game) they give you a choice between rock, pointy rock and big rock. Either way's a trap and it shows that they've missed the point.

Normally they let you upgrade skill with weapons; frequently this is done in a way that makes the game worse because it discourages you from trying the other weapons. To legitimately improve character diversity, any choices should be a viable tool in accomplishing mission objectives - to do that well, the game needs to be deep enough to let you try multiple approaches. Most games aren't.

Another use for RPG elements is in having a large vague experience/money bar that you can expect to fill through a common set of activities like combat. When they want (or get enough exp to level up) they can spend this on abilities to improve their character, so they're always working towards a goal regardless of whether they're going forward in the storyline. This way, a developer has an easy method to reward any number of activities (like disarming mines or picking locks in Knights of the Old Republic.) Prototype did this well, giving clear and obvious new abilities to people who saved up for them. Other games castrate the point by automatically leveling up enemies to your level so you're actually punished for playing the game, but that's another rant.

Other than that, RPG elements are a fad like regenerating health or spiffy physics engines or lives in platformers or game over screens. Most developers include them because they expect them to be in a good game, not because they've deeply thought about their merits and drawbacks.

This. Fun fact: Activision Guitar Hero games use the Havok physics engine. WHY DOES GUITAR HERO NEED A PHYSICS ENGINE?

Back on point, I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Done well, RPG-elements add wonders to the replayability and customization of the game. Done poorly (which is sadly, more often than not), it's just another bullet point on the back of the box that does nothing useful.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

I just looked up that blacklist. It's ridiculous. They want to ban Abby Winters. Abby f-ing Winters! The finest legal softcore pornography Australia has given the world. Granted, while I have only viewed their material without paying, I think it is an absolute travesty that a government would try to eliminate this wonderful business just because they don't like it. What, does one of the legislators have a rebellious lesbian daughter? There's also a bunch of individual rapidshare files listed, which have probably already been deleted. This means that someone in the Australia government is paid money to surf the web for child porn. Sickening. The Australian people would be better off overthrowing the the government and taking a crack at survival Mad Max style.

 

[Biscotti187]

I dont entirely agree, although I can see the logic. I felt that Darkest of Days did well enough, I mean the upgrade system always felt like it was more in the background and (besides the fact that I never used a pistol) they didnt just shoot up firepower or anything so I felt it just spiced things up a bit and didnt create much of a problem.

 

[JPKooper]

Yay it finally came out... waited all weekend for this.

that's just how cool I am

 

[Snotnarok]

Yeah the internet ban thing scares me considering the level of pigheaded-ness in America. For a country that screams freedom sure has a lot of un-free laws like no cursing in certain states (it's enforced and you can can get sued heavly for it), you have to pay sales tax in NY even if the item you bought was purchased in ANOTHER STATE all together, etc etc. It scares me because frankly who's business is it that I view what I want and who's to stop them from banning games/buying games this way too?

It's not anyone's choice but mine, and should never be (as in what I personally purchase) questioned unless it's hazardous to someone elses health. Even then why is it okay to monitor these searches? Sometimes things are searched for the hell of it as in jokes or can be taken out of context, like if you were searching how to make a bomb IN A GAME.

 

[righthanded]

Dough Stanhope on child pornography, starts at about the 3 minute mark; not that the preceding isn't hilarious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8APlx9btTn8

 

[Sewblon]

Considering a roleplaying game consists of taking on the role of another character, I'd have to say JRPGS are no less of an RPG than the next.

RPG elements in shooters can cater for individual playing styles within the parameters of the game. If implemented correctly, anyway.
But I still prefer the old Halo method of leaving various guns lying around you and letting you improvise.

I'd hardly consider that the "Old Halo Method", since that weapon concept has been around long before Halo.

Yeah, that concept has been around since Contra at least.

 

[Kazokuhouou]

Yeah, I know there's a bear behind me. His name's Charlie.

 

[Axeli]

Mary Sue

You keep using this word and I don't think it means what you think it means.

And I've been saying this for years now - jRPGs are NOT RPGs. They are too complex adventure games. That's IT. And ya know what? That's not bad! Hell one of my favorite western RPGs - Planescape: Torment is really just a complicated adventure game and not an RPG either. Ironic how that works, huh?

There isn't strict definition for it. Hell, go to TVTropes and check how many sub-tropes it has.

But basically, these games usually make you (or at least try to) insert yourself into the story. Only you do not play the character as "me" but rather as the "fantasy, perfect me", the world of the game more or less revolving around your character... Not only that but the backstory the character tends to make him/her a very special individual, and the rest of the cast really exists only to support the main character, who is always the one making the decisions and getting the story driving, badass action.

Hits pretty close to the usual definitions.

 

[Megacherv]

Some RPG elements in shooters fit. Like in Ratchet and Clank

That has barely any RPG elements nowadays, due to the fact that it doesn't need them.

 

[doomgaze3]

I noticed that no one mentioned recent racing games with RPG mechanics. Games like Gran Turismo and Forza Motorsport have been doing this for years too. Think about it: You gain "XP" (money) and use it to level up your "stats" (buy car parts or new cars) and thus confront greater challenges (race in harder races). Like most good games with *well-executed* RPG elements, this system is quite fun. It encourages players to continue to play the game, get more powerful cars, compete in more advanced races and earn even more money. And then the cycle continues.

When RPG elements are well done in a game, they encourage a vicious cycle of playing to get more powerful. It is also very addictive, a trait most good RPGs traffic in heavily.

 

[KingPiccolOwned]

That thing with the Australian government really frightens me. The internet, while filled with a lot of crap, Is as I have often said the greatest tool of free speech ever invented. If it is censored or controlled, then we are truly lost. Say I'm dramatic all you want but I can't imagine a worst dystopia. This is only the beginning.

Umm... We are here (on this site that is), so are we already lost? I don't think so.