On RTS Games

[Shjade]

This is a good choise for Yahtzee.

Lets cut the Bullshit. He either praises it, which, people will ***** about. THATS NOT FUNNY, I DIDNT LIKE IT, ETC.

Or, b. He rips it a new one. In which case, look at Brawl. That + More. It will just annoy him.

Exactly.

To the folks asking why he reviews JRPGs if he doesn't like those either, I would hazard a guess that a JRPG is a hell of a lot simpler to play than an RTS assuming you don't like the mechanics of either type of game. Hell, I LIKE Starcraft 2 and I still fumble with build orders and micromanagement and, well, just about everything to do with the game. Final Fantasy - the more recent entries in the series, at least - you can pick up and figure out well enough to break them pretty quickly. The whole turn-based thing helps a lot with that: you can pause every turn to consider what you want to do in a fight if you're new/confused/in a bad position. In RTS games, well, that's what the "RT" part means. You don't get breaks. You don't get time to think. If you're under attack you'd better do something about it NOW or else nevermind it's over you lost bye get out.

It's not a very forgiving genre is what I'm saying.

 

[Giest4life]

He says, it's not just that he sucks at them, but because "it's not [his] cup of tea."

Right. That's why I used the term "well-versed". Where did you get the idea that it means: "sucks at them"? It means, not very knowledgeable.

You might say "JRPGs" are also not his cup of tea.

Don't mind me, I'm a hyperbole junkie.

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

Yeah, there's really no point in him reviewing Starcraft II. I can already predict the comments page afterwards:
-You didn't try the multiplayer
-You suck at RTSs
-You didn't play the first game so you didn't understand the story
-You just hate Blizzard

etc, etc. As someone who personally loves Starcraft I - in fact I would go as far as saying it's my favourite game of all time - Starcraft II is a disappointment. It's not a poorly designed game or anything, and the campaign is absolutely spectacular as per what usually happens when Chris Metzen rolls up his sleeve, but it honestly does not feel like 12 years have passed. My brother's first comment upon playing the game was "it's basically the same but with better graphics", and I've heard many say the same. Sure, there are new units in the multiplayer, but there are absolutely no gameplay innovations. Which coming from Blizzard is absolutely pathetic - it would be like if they had released Warcraft III without adding heroes, items, merc camps, creeps etc.

So despite taking twelve years to add almost nothing to the game - and indeed to subtract things such as LAN under the slim justification of targeting pirates - Blizzard are charging people 60 bucks for a graphical update. That, in conjunction with the way they didn't hand out any pre-release copies of the game to reviewers, says: "You know what? We can do whatever we want, and people will still pay for it." And no one is really prepared to call them out on it, and the same excuse gets parroted over and over again: "it doesn't have to change, the Koreans would riot if it did". No one's saying it HAS to innovate, but if you're prepared to obligingly accept sudden mark-ups in price for little to no extra content, in a few years time you'll swiftly be paying a hundred dollars for your games. That's why I was hoping Yahtzee might knock it down a peg or two, but since he admits he's not really knowledgeable on the subject of RTSs it's better for him to just leave it.

 

[sosolidshoe]

I might not be the first to mention it, but I'm tired and not going to read 6 pages to check:

Yhatzee my man, you just described DUST 514, the console MMO/FPS hybrid being developed by CCP, creator of that other game you really, really don't like; EvE Online

 

[Misterian]

Seems like a reasonable outlook on RTS's.

personally, I decided against playing them because I think I lack patience for them, building up enough ships to maybe shame Nazi Germany's airforce only for it to nearly-instantly get blasted by anti-air units, had that problem playing Starcraft 64.

 

[Stabby Joe]

Slight issue with most real-time strategy games is most strategies end up swarming with the best unit.

Real-time tactics on the other hand, real strategy is the only way to play since the units you get at the start is all you get.

Also, since Yahtzee said that Halo Wars "didn't sell him on the genre", then it's no wonder... Halo Wars is FAR from the best example of it's kind, for one it's on a console.

 

[Rakor]

i like how on the front page this is listed right next to, Review: Starcraft 2

 

[CopperBoom]

I like Mercenaries.
That did not have the RTS general blahs because you could go slow and you only had six bastards to care for.

 

[Jelly ^.^]

*Cough. Cough.

"WW2 ONLINE: BATTLEGROUND EUROPE"

YAHTZEE?

ANYONE?

 

[chieften]

I heard that there is really nice Russian-made WWII RTS game that lets you take direct control of individual soldiers and go FPS style with them.

 

[Pariahwulfen]

My good sir Yahtzee, I present to you the add on to Eve Online, "Dust 514".

 

[The Random One]

Has any major battle in history been decided by an illegal street race?

Pretty sure that's how Croatia was founded.

 

[Mr. Gency]

How about this:

Design the FPS gameplay like a arcade game in the sense that you will die a lot unless you know what your doing and know the levels well (but you'll still die once in a while). The level's lay out will change every time it's played[footnote]I took this from an idea for a stealth multiplayer game I have.[footnote]Not that I have a game like that, it's just an idea.[footnote]Hopefully this idea is of my own and won't get me killed[/footnote][/footnote][/footnote]. As a result, players can't survive, even when working as a team. This is where the RTS player comes into play. The RTS player has an unrestricted view of the level (because sending players to their death probably isn't as good an idea as sending AI solders to the same fate). The RTS player tells the FPS players where enemies are, what routes to take, and so forth. The RTS player can even mark specific places FPS player can hide to ambush enemies, and mark the enemies as well.While the RTS player doesn't have detect control over their army, they can still build bases and call support like vehicles that FPS players can drive.[footnote]

Natural Selection - A mod for Half-Life and I believe is under construction for Half-Life 2. The human side can have one commander who issues orders to the others in RTS style.

Oh, come on![footnote]At lest my stealth game idea doesn't seem to have already been done.[/footnote][/footnote]

Obviously, the first game would have to be simple compared to other RTS games.

 

[Mr. Gency]

I've lost your line of thought somewhere, but it seems to me you want to make every player play a single unit in a strategy game. While I have no clue as to why you want to do that, I'd have to spoil it for you. It has already been done. In the Chinise emperrors' court they used to played live chess. And yes, the pawns did kill eachother when ordered. I think your plan will have the same success and result.

You know, minus the actual killing.

 

[Skorpyo]

I'm surprised that someone like you who bashes his viewers/readers because they stick it 'safe' 'with games is not even willing to give rts's a try.

That isn't really what he is saying, he is saying that his viewpoint would be tainted by the fact that he isn't as adept at RTS's as the other games he reviews.

Anywho, OT: I am going to be picking up SC2, but I'm glad that Yahtzee isn't going to review it. It would be redundant.

Besides, gaming is about personal experience. I thank him for his (blunt) honesty.

 

[Pebkio]

Let's get down to the big secret: Yahtzee reviews JRPGs... because... well... he plays them pretty often?

I think back to his TWEWY review and it was all about the system of play and compaints about the story. He then wrapped it all up with "Is TWEWY a good game? I have no idea..." (paraphrasing)

These days he knows more about JRPGs, because in his little escursion into other types of games a while back, he found out that he DOES like some JRPGs (and is probably a Nazi sympathizer). He's probably been playing them since then.

And then, in Brutal Legends... he had to ask a friend if it was a good RTS. He doesn't know jack about them...

...and I, for one, wouldn't like to hear him wax ignorance to be funny with lots examples of why he doesn't know or like RTS...s...sssssss.

 

[johnman]

I couldn't give a dam about Star craft 2 either, I do like RTS's but never played the first starcraft and dont see wahts so special about it from all the hype.

 

[Lonan]

There's a version of what Yahtzee was talking about in Battle.net of Frozen Throne. It's called Kings and Knights. There are 4 kings who have their castle and lots of gold mines around it, and there are 8 knights (mercenaries) who can become incredibly powerful if they get a lot of gold (from a king)

I did WAY better as a king, because I gave two people 1000 gold every 5 minutes, and they became incredibly powerful in no time. They were able to take out one base (of the 4) by themselves. It was EPIC. And I didn't have to pay them, but then they could always turn on me, which wouldn't be pleasant at all.

At the end of the day, it was incredibly fun for me the armchair general. While the whole thing is an RTS in my example, mixing RTS and third of first person sounds like an EXCELLENT idea to me.

 

[OiXerxes]

Not to force you into joining the RTS bandwagon, but a good and uncomplicated RTS is World in Conflict. Unfortunately, the Cold War escalated to WWIII in that game so might be a bit too uncreative for your taste.

 

[Nupaa]

What Yahtzee mentiones at the very end of the article about RTS-players just wanting to play straight-forward RTS-games is a valid point. But what about this then, would'nt that add to the stragegic elemt? The third factor which is "completly" unpredictable. Could add to the gaming experience. The commanders, as he says, could try to buy their loyalties, but in the end that would'nt really add to the predictabilety since they essentially can do whatever the fuck they feel like doing. So I think it could actually make a really good game (maybe even a new kind of hybrid genre). Ofcourse there would be faults in the beginning, but hey. Isn't that kinda to expect with something new? But if it shows promise it can be perfected later on in the prosess. After all that's how it goes with new game mechanichs right? Starts in one game, then gets perfected in another game and then gets used in almost all other games of that type because it works.
If Yahtzee sees this comment I hope he uses his influence as the secret leader of the world to push it through. The he can enjoy "RTS-games" as well. Oh and if he mentions it in a Zero Punctuation-episode that would be awesome ^^ (even though it's not likely)

HAIL!