On the Left 4 Dead Ban

[warbaloon]

[

Seriously, this guy is a nut. He'd have been considered oppressive and dictatorial in the '50s. [http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/grandtheftauto4/video/6208496/gamespot-au-interview-with-michael-atkinson]

He seems to not be protecting the children, but the general populace. He believes that there is a possibility that any person, regardless of age, could commit atrocities just because they played a video game (he even uses an example of someone acting out a gta scene...in Taiwan).

So basically as long as violent people exist, we must try to give them as little inspiration as possible.

He also admits to being unable to tell if his children have been using the computer to play violent games because he can't watch them every hour of every day...

 

[Venatio]

Well I'm glad I'm not Australian! And I'm glad that we have managed to hold on to our video game rights in this country, and I'll be the first on the frontlines of protest if they try and ban a game I want to play!

 

[Gromitt]

I wrote to some of the fatheads awhile ago about the need for R18+ ratings. I received a bunch of garbled non-sense in reply. One of the replies actually stated that the minister does not reply to emails... I thanked him for the reply and mentioned how I was disturbed about the reply that he wouldn't reply to my email.

Any Australians who wish to start a civil war and overthrow our ridiculous excuse for a government (looking at you K Rudd) let me know.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

[

Seriously, this guy is a nut. He'd have been considered oppressive and dictatorial in the '50s. [http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/grandtheftauto4/video/6208496/gamespot-au-interview-with-michael-atkinson]

He seems to not be protecting the children, but the general populace. He believes that there is a possibility that any person, regardless of age, could commit atrocities just because they played a video game (he even uses an example of someone acting out a gta scene...in Taiwan).

So basically as long as violent people exist, we must try to give them as little inspiration as possible.

He also admits to being unable to tell if his children have been using the computer to play violent games because he can't watch them every hour of every day...

I didn't even mention the Taiwan example because I figured most people would notice right away how far he was reaching to form a reason for why he should be allowed to dictate other adult's hobbies.

I think what this comes down to is he thinks he's smarter and more able to decide how you will react to things than you are. He's taken an aristocratic approach to this-that he is in authority, and his ideas on how to "protect" you from yourself are true... Despite the fact that he can't control his own kids by his admission.

He's using the actions of a few nutcases to enact what comes down to restriction of freedoms upon every law-abiding citizen. I don't suppose his other last name is Bush, is it?

The thing that really got me is when he said he was open to negotiation, but then stated that his "terms" were that everyone tell him he was completely right. So basically, "Appease me, and I might grant thee some games, peon!"

 

[Samurai Goomba]

I don't think a game could get banned in America, too many people would complain. In Australia there is a smaller gamer to normal person ratio.

This is another thing: Why is it a ratio at all? Shouldn't it be some kind of Van Diagram? Atkinson seems really set on making a distinction between "normal people" and gamers (you can see this in the GS Interview). This sort of divisive approach just splits people up. If we can make this an issue of oppression and not just a "gamer" thing, maybe more people would be on our side.

I'm not angry at you, mind, but gamers ARE "normal people." They do taxes, they drive cars, they act like morons every election year... The only difference is a FREAKING HOBBY. This media stereotyping of gamers needs to stop. And I think it slowly is, but Atkinson definitely hasn't gotten the memo yet.

 

[rufuslives]

To all fellow Aussies out there there is an attempt being made to get the review of the classification system that was promised early last year to actually happen. It is being combined with an attempt to get South Australian Attorney General Micheal Atkinson to be excluded from any future decision process due to his major conflict of interest and previous abuse of his power. Join in our whirlpool thread over here -> http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1286583.

Hey Yahtzee - how about some celebrity endorsement?

 

[AceDiamond]

I don't think a game could get banned in America, too many people would complain. In Australia there is a smaller gamer to normal person ratio.

This is another thing: Why is it a ratio at all? Shouldn't it be some kind of Van Diagram? Atkinson seems really set on making a distinction between "normal people" and gamers (you can see this in the GS Interview). This sort of divisive approach just splits people up. If we can make this an issue of oppression and not just a "gamer" thing, maybe more people would be on our side.

I'm not angry at you, mind, but gamers ARE "normal people." They do taxes, they drive cars, they act like morons every election year... The only difference is a FREAKING HOBBY. This media stereotyping of gamers needs to stop. And I think it slowly is, but Atkinson definitely hasn't gotten the memo yet.

I guess one could stop paying taxes and claim that since Atkinson doesn't consider gamers as people then it's hard to pay money for a government for the people, which you aren't.

Granted that's also a good way to wind up in prison.

I'm just more...amazed I guess that there's a place making even Germany start to look bad in terms of wacky censorship laws (which is unfair to say now given how off-the-handle Germany flew after that kid shot up his school). For all the shit the rest of the world likes to give America for having a corrupt/flawed/broken democracy the other countries aren't doing much better if one thickheaded dingbat can forestall something that would actually only benefit the public at large (and yes, I know, healthcare reform but technically that's a lot of people being thickheaded dingbats). With an R18+ rating and ID checks there'd be no reason for anybody to worry. And if underage people did purchase these games there'd just be repercussions in place. M17 has worked as a rating in America, I can't see why Atkinson is so blind to the obvious benefits other than the distinct possibility that he's just an interactive media fearing zealot who doesn't "get it".

 

[EvilGamer89]

Effing retarded, I thought it was stupid for the recall of San Andreas just because of the "hot coffee" crap

 

[Metalrocks]

I guess one could stop paying taxes and claim that since Atkinson doesn't consider gamers as people then it's hard to pay money for a government for the people, which you aren't.

Granted that's also a good way to wind up in prison.

I'm just more...amazed I guess that there's a place making even Germany start to look bad in terms of wacky censorship laws (which is unfair to say now given how off-the-handle Germany flew after that kid shot up his school). For all the shit the rest of the world likes to give America for having a corrupt/flawed/broken democracy the other countries aren't doing much better if one thickheaded dingbat can forestall something that would actually only benefit the public at large (and yes, I know, healthcare reform but technically that's a lot of people being thickheaded dingbats). With an R18+ rating and ID checks there'd be no reason for anybody to worry. And if underage people did purchase these games there'd just be repercussions in place. M17 has worked as a rating in America, I can't see why Atkinson is so blind to the obvious benefits other than the distinct possibility that he's just an interactive media fearing zealot who doesn't "get it".

the way i understood it, atkinson does not want 18+ ratings for games, because he thinks that too many young people want to play it and get pirated versions of it from the net.
but at the same time, i see games here (because i live in australia....unfortunately), like bloodrayne 1+2 at 15+. GTA SA and all that at 15+. ok, i hurd that GTA 4 has bin cut abit. soldier of fortune games, all at 15+ and many other games which should have a 18+ rating.
i always thought germany has stupid politicians but atkinson can keep up with them.

 

[theultimateend]

Why does everyone hate blood and gore? It's anatomy. And violence is a natural occurrence. Kids are gonna see it in school anyways...

Do you live in Sparta or something, where blood and gore are an everyday part of school?

So...you never took a biology class?

I saw blood and gore (not necessarily at the same time) in the class. Most of it hands on.

Likewise I assume you never saw the "Meaning of Life" Video where baby rockets out of the harriest vagina in existence in a scene that cause nightmarish horror to all those innocent souls who dared wonder "What was after the Butterflies."

Oh god...

The memories...

I don't think a game could get banned in America, too many people would complain. In Australia there is a smaller gamer to normal person ratio.

This is another thing: Why is it a ratio at all? Shouldn't it be some kind of Van Diagram? Atkinson seems really set on making a distinction between "normal people" and gamers (you can see this in the GS Interview). This sort of divisive approach just splits people up. If we can make this an issue of oppression and not just a "gamer" thing, maybe more people would be on our side.

I'm not angry at you, mind, but gamers ARE "normal people." They do taxes, they drive cars, they act like morons every election year... The only difference is a FREAKING HOBBY. This media stereotyping of gamers needs to stop. And I think it slowly is, but Atkinson definitely hasn't gotten the memo yet.

If you separate folks apart it makes it easier to make them look less than human.

Once they look less than human it makes it easier to treat them as such.

Finally you can do anything that you want to them and generally at this point it isn't pleasant.

A gamer holocaust? Extremely unlikely, but historically this is the strategy used in every war and act of horror across the world. Stripping the humanity from the prey and from the hunter.

 

[nu11]

Damn I can't believe some governments and their ignorance! Well I feel for Yahtzee on the point that games get released much later in Oz than USA and UK. I live in South Africa and we have the same problem, luckily all our games are Made in EU and our government doesn't give a crap about violence in games, they barely give a damn about real life violence so I guess that's good. We also have nice beaches, not as nice as Oz but pretty close. XD

 

[AcacianLeaves]

I wonder if Yahtzee is comforted knowing that the logic they used to ban Left 4 Dead 2 will be the same logic that will have all of Australia taken over by zombies when the apocalypse finally comes - because they can't order military violence against creatures that look so human.

 

[Green Ninja]

It's not as if I play games just to see lots of blood and gore. It's disappointing that I am forced to play games that have been censored, but at least I'd get to play the game, so as long as Left 4 Dead 2 is actually released, I'd be... well, I'd be more or less satisfied. Happiness seems to be a revolution away, though.

Well... that may be true in part. Most of the censorship madness we have here at the moment, though, is the result of a school shooting in Erfurt only a few years back - that's when the thumbscrews on gaming went from squeezing the metaphorical fingers to grinding them into paste.

I'm with Sonicron on this one. I don't need the gore every time but I refuse to pay money for a product labeled 18+ which still got cut because it's "youth endangering". That's just plain stupid.

I guess there's not that much of a difference betwwen here an Australia. There may be no 18+ rating in Oz, but the USK is much stricter than most other similiar boards. Take Bionic Commando for example, which I recently bought. There's also the British label on the disc which declares it to be okay for 15-year olds but in Germany it's 18+ because of the ragdoll physics. Yes, the ragdoll physics. They usually cut them out for the German versions. In the Bourne game it is not possible to throw people of the train because they don't fly far enough when you throw them. Just one of many examples.

 

[Chunko]

I don't think a game could get banned in America, too many people would complain. In Australia there is a smaller gamer to normal person ratio.

This is another thing: Why is it a ratio at all? Shouldn't it be some kind of Van Diagram? Atkinson seems really set on making a distinction between "normal people" and gamers (you can see this in the GS Interview). This sort of divisive approach just splits people up. If we can make this an issue of oppression and not just a "gamer" thing, maybe more people would be on our side.

I'm not angry at you, mind, but gamers ARE "normal people." They do taxes, they drive cars, they act like morons every election year... The only difference is a FREAKING HOBBY. This media stereotyping of gamers needs to stop. And I think it slowly is, but Atkinson definitely hasn't gotten the memo yet.

You don't have to read into peoples posts that much. You realize I'm a gamer aswell. No one's normal there are tons of types of people. I was just using normal people as a term for people who don't play videogames on a daily basis.

 

[Jerich0]

i cry for Australian gamers every night. the ratings board people are douches.

 

[UtopiaV1]

"Oh, god forbid that post-mortem damage be inflicted. It's perfectly rational to separate a limb bloodily from a torso with a single sweep of a machete while the owner is still alive and capable of raising an objection, but once you start hacking away at dead bodies, well, suddenly we've crossed a line."

Laughed till i cried....

Yea, classification systems suck ass, as it's non-gamers telling gamers what we shouldn't play, backed up with legalise and lawyers to make sure we don't complain. Just take refuge in the thought that, when the revolution comes, they'll be the first up against the wall.

Also, Logan's Run is a great film, first time i ever saw nudity on the big screen. Gotta love sci-fi when it was actually PUSHING BOUNDARIES, rather than being Star Trek-style cg-effects and terrible writting/plot. ¬_¬

 

[eels05]

I can think of a shit load of titles that are just as gory that have escaped the censors to grace Australian shelves.

If they're going to patronize us by insisting its for our benefit then at least they should be fucking consistant.

What a joke.Hypocrites.

 

[Zersy]

Why does everyone hate blood and gore? It's anatomy. And violence is a natural occurance. Kids are gonna see it in school anyways...

Point proven nicely.

Violence is something kids know since they could........ well they were born pretty violently , so i guess violence is what made kids.

 

[Valthek]

I wonder...

what if they replaced the zombies with monkeys.. would it still get banned?

 

[Ernie Devlin]

Can't you just import it? Get a U.S. or U.K. region 360, PS3 and wii (if you must) and order games online?

The silly thing is we (Aussies) can order L4D2 in PAL format from New Zealand or Hong Kong. Refusing the game a classification won't stop people buying it as long as there is a credit card invovled..