Our Covid Response

[CriticalGaming]

It's funny that you mention McDonalds because McDonalds employees in Denmark make more than $20 an hour and a Big Mac in Denmark only costs $0.27 more, yet somehow McDonalds in Denmark is obviously still profitable otherwise they wouldn't have any franchises there.

I mean, you can do all the math you want based on incorrect assumptions of how these franchises are run, based in questionably correct data of how much an average McDonalds or Subway makes. We can all make up some numbers to prove or disprove our own biases, but here's a proven real world example that you can totally just pay fast food workers more with only a minimal price increase to the food and the business would still be profitable.

Also, they get 6 weeks paid vacation every year.

Do McDonald's Workers in Denmark Make $22 an Hour?

The fight over a minimum wage is often centered around McDonald's.

www.snopes.com

Denmark McDonald's Workers Get Paid Vastly Higher Wages

McDonald's has warned that wage increases in the U.S. would force franchisees to raise menu prices.

www.businessinsider.com

It's not a 1 to 1 ratio though. While it's cool that they make that much money. The cost of living in Denmark is also about 24% higher than the U.S.

Cost of Living in Denmark

Average prices of more than 40 products and services in Denmark. Prices of restaurants, food, transportation, utilities and housing are included.

www.numbeo.com

Though is is slightly offset by rent being 18% cheaper.

Also it should be noted that your article even states that most Mcdonalds employees are part-time so it levels out the wage expenses when stacked.

Interesting read, but not as cut and dry as you might think.

 

[CriticalGaming]

I'm...90% certain that they don't want you to install solar panels just so they can jack up your utility bills

There is a big push for the state to go green. Gas cars will be outlawed in 2025. They very much want people to buy solar panels.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

There is a big push for the state to go green. Gas cars will be outlawed in 2025. They very much want people to buy solar panels.

Yes, but not so they can raise your utility bills.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

It's not a 1 to 1 ratio though. While it's cool that they make that much money. The cost of living in Denmark is also about 24% higher than the U.S.

Cost of Living in Denmark

Average prices of more than 40 products and services in Denmark. Prices of restaurants, food, transportation, utilities and housing are included.

www.numbeo.com

Though is is slightly offset by rent being 18% cheaper.

Also it should be noted that your article even states that most Mcdonalds employees are part-time so it levels out the wage expenses when stacked.

Interesting read, but not as cut and dry as you might think.

No, it's pretty cut and dry.

Their average wage is $22, and the average wage in he US is $8. Even if every single McDonalds employee only worked 4 hours a day, and cost of living was 24% higher they would still be making more money while working less than their counterpart in the US working full time.

AND THEIR PART TIME WORKERS GET BENEFITS.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Yes, but not so they can raise your utility bills.

Admittedly, it does in a roundabout way. But it's because the California grid is basically run by a single monopoly that doesn't have to give a shit and the state government doesn't help upkeep the grid. A lot of the payment to PG&E goes to the physical upkeep of the grid, something that has to be done no matter who's on the grid or how much power they use. Since people with solar panels both draw less power and can theoretically even sell some back to the company, less money is available to upkeep the grid and thus they have to charge customers more for the power they do use.

But the problem here isn't solar panels, it's lackadaisical government oversight and an effective monopoly. The only thing separating California from Texas is that since Cali is on the national grid, they at least have to plan around inclement weather.

 

[MrCalavera]

Yes, but not so they can raise your utility bills.

The national grid where i live currently has a problem with receiving electric energy from private households, and bussinesses.
There has been a boom on solar panels, partially financed by the govt/EU, and the rest of the infrastructure can't keep up.
Yes, there are people who'll try to sell you solar panels, but certainly not so you can pay more for energy consumption.

 

[tstorm823]

I'm...90% certain that they don't want you to install solar panels just so they can jack up your utility bills

I believe you misread the post. You're responding as though @CriticalGaming said "they want everyone to go solar so that they can jack up the prices", when the post said "they want everyone to go solar so they jack up the prices". I don't believe the intended meaning was to accuse them of pushing solar so they could raise prices, but rather to accuse them of raising prices on electricity in order to push people toward solar. Which isn't a weird accusation, it's the purpose of carbon taxes.

I also believe it a fine statement on the state of the board that 4 people liked you misunderstanding a post.

 

[AnxietyProne]

To be fair. Retail is only bad because other people (customers) make it bad. If people didnt treat retail workers like shit, there would be no problem with it.

But why wouldn't they treat them like shit? You said yourself, the workers are less valuable. Why would you treat someone beneath you in value equally?

 

[CriticalGaming]

But why wouldn't they treat them like shit? You said yourself, the workers are less valuable. Why would you treat someone beneath you in value equally?

I said the job had little value not the person.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I believe you misread the post. You're responding as though @CriticalGaming said "they want everyone to go solar so that they can jack up the prices", when the post said "they want everyone to go solar so they jack up the prices". I don't believe the intended meaning was to accuse them of pushing solar so they could raise prices, but rather to accuse them of raising prices on electricity in order to push people toward solar. Which isn't a weird accusation, it's the purpose of carbon taxes.

I also believe it a fine statement on the state of the board that 4 people liked you misunderstanding a post.

1) California doesn't have a carbon tax
2) California has a privatized power system
3) If a lot of people misinterpret your post, maybe you were unclear?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I said the job had little value not the person.

Yeah, and you said that if a person is doing that job for too long they deserve poverty

 

[AnxietyProne]

I said the job had little value not the person.

We don't get paid based on our person tho, we get it based on our job.

That's capitalism. You ARE your job. So treating them like shit is not only understandable, it's the order of things.

 

[CriticalGaming]

We don't get paid based on our person tho, we get it based on our job.

That's capitalism. You ARE your job. So treating them like shit is not only understandable, it's the order of things.

Except the person can improve their job. The person can education themselves. Thus able to move into more and more complex jobs.

However the low value job will never improve. Stacking boxes will forever be stacking boxes.

So maybe just dont treat people like shit?

 

[tstorm823]

3) If a lot of people misinterpret your post, maybe you were unclear?

I won't dispute that, there certainly could have been a comma in that sentence to clear things up. That being said, I don't think any of those people cared what the post actually said, and just were supporting who you were poking fun at rather than why.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

It's not a 1 to 1 ratio though. While it's cool that they make that much money. The cost of living in Denmark is also about 24% higher than the U.S.

Cost of Living in Denmark

Average prices of more than 40 products and services in Denmark. Prices of restaurants, food, transportation, utilities and housing are included.

www.numbeo.com

Though is is slightly offset by rent being 18% cheaper.

Also it should be noted that your article even states that most Mcdonalds employees are part-time so it levels out the wage expenses when stacked.

Interesting read, but not as cut and dry as you might think.

Let's add another here for you, from the US.

Seattle's Dick's Drive-In to increase minimum wage to $19 per hour amid labor shortage

Seattle's iconic fast food chain is upping its hourly wages to entice more workers.

www.seattlepi.com

Dick's Burgers in Seattle upped their minimum wage to $19 an hour ($20 an hour once you finish your training after 12 weeks). The basic hamburger on their menu costs less than $2.

1_ABOUT US_Menu - Dick's Drive In

www.ddir.com

HEY LOOK INCREASING THE MINIMUM WAGE DIDN'T MAKE THE PRICE OF THE BURGER GO UP TO $20.

Those employees also get healthcare, 3 weeks paid vacation, and a 401k match.

It's almost like you were fed a lie that you whole-heartedly believe.

Companies can and should pay every full time employee a living wage, but they don't because they know people like you will defend them.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Let's add another here for you, from the US.

Seattle's Dick's Drive-In to increase minimum wage to $19 per hour amid labor shortage

Seattle's iconic fast food chain is upping its hourly wages to entice more workers.

www.seattlepi.com

Dick's Burgers in Seattle upped their minimum wage to $19 an hour ($20 an hour once you finish your training after 12 weeks). The basic hamburger on their menu costs less than $2.

1_ABOUT US_Menu - Dick's Drive In

www.ddir.com

HEY LOOK INCREASING THE MINIMUM WAGE DIDN'T MAKE THE PRICE OF THE BURGER GO UP TO $20.

Those employees also get healthcare, 3 weeks paid vacation, and a 401k match.

It's almost like you were fed a lie that you whole-heartedly believe.

Companies can and should pay every full time employee a living wage, but they don't because they know people like you will defend them.

This is a temporary measure due to the lack of employees. The national average for Dicks is 9.25 per hour. And on top of that, the chain has had several problems with health, safety and labor violations.

Hardly a sterling example but sure ok they are not raising prices. But that is a double edged example, because the company is short staffed. Which means you can pay fewer employees more money without the need for a cost jump.

I'll give you another example. Urbane Cafe has been trying to hiring people for $20/hour starting pay. But in exchange for that pay rate increase, they have cut the size of their portions by 40% which effectively acts as a price increase.

Also nothing in that article suggests 401k or health benefits. It does mention health violations though lol.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

This is a temporary measure due to the lack of employees. The national average for Dicks is 9.25 per hour. And on top of that, the chain has had several problems with health, safety and labor violations.

Hardly a sterling example but sure ok they are not raising prices. But that is a double edged example, because the company is short staffed. Which means you can pay fewer employees more money without the need for a cost jump.

I'll give you another example. Urbane Cafe has been trying to hiring people for $20/hour starting pay. But in exchange for that pay rate increase, they have cut the size of their portions by 40% which effectively acts as a price increase.

Also nothing in that article suggests 401k or health benefits. It does mention health violations though lol.

They've had the 401k match, 3 weeks vacation, and up to $8,000 for child care or college tuition as part of their incentive program since at least 2013 when this article came out:

Lessons from Dick’s Drive-In on minimum wage, employee benefits

Every time I walk over to Dick's Drive-In on Capitol Hill, I have a mass craving for this: ...

www.seattletimes.com

They still have all of those benefits (and a 50% 401 match is something I think most people would be extremely envious of).

And yes, this IS because the company is short staffed. You know why they're short staffed? Because people want to be paid a living wage. Now that they're be getting that they won't be short staffed. Shocking how that works.

Also, please show me a source that states Urbane Cafe had to reduce their portion size by 40% in order to increase employee wages. I googled it and didn't get any results from "Urbane Cafe reduces portion sizes."

 

[CriticalGaming]

And yes, this IS because the company is short staffed. You know why they're short staffed? Because people want to be paid a living wage. Now that they're be getting that they won't be short staffed. Shocking how that works.

Except $20 isn't a livable wage in Seatle or in California, so it's still not really the end all answer to that problem.

Also, please show me a source that states Urbane Cafe had to reduce their portion size by 40% in response in order to increase employee wages. I googled it and didn't get any results from "Urbane Cafe reduces portion sizes."

Anidotal only based on my personal urbane experiences. So I retrack that statement because i have no numbers to hold that hold. Portions at my local restaurant have gotten smaller but I can't find actual numbers behind that.

Let me ask you this though. If the answer was as simple as a bunch of people not going to work, making employers pay more, then why hasn't it happened before. The labor shortage is from unemployment benefit extensions due to covid and people not wanting to go back to work at those jobs.

Could also be that people used their time to finish school, online courses and whatnot, and have used the downtime during covid to get better jobs. Thus reducing the number of people just looking for quick work. Again just a guess.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Except $20 isn't a livable wage in Seatle or in California, so it's still not really the end all answer to that problem.




Anidotal only based on my personal urbane experiences. So I retrack that statement because i have no numbers to hold that hold. Portions at my local restaurant have gotten smaller but I can't find actual numbers behind that.

That's basically the entire gist of your argument in this thread. The rest of us provide facts and sources that you then dismiss based on your feelings and personal biases.

Let me ask you this though. If the answer was as simple as a bunch of people not going to work, making employers pay more, then why hasn't it happened before. The labor shortage is from unemployment benefit extensions due to covid and people not wanting to go back to work at those jobs.

Could also be that people used their time to finish school, online courses and whatnot, and have used the downtime during covid to get better jobs. Thus reducing the number of people just looking for quick work. Again just a guess.

It absolutely has happened before. Ever notice how after big pandemic events workers lives tend to improve because able bodied people are suddenly in a shorter supply than they used to be? There was no such thing as a "middle class" until the black death killed half of Europe and peasants were suddenly in short supply.

I'm pretty sure 600,000+ deaths had something to do with it. That's a whole lot of people suddenly getting removed from the workforce, in those exact restaurant and retail businesses that are currently experiencing a labor shortage.

If a whole bunch of fry cooks died during the covid pandemic and no one wants to be a fry cook for $10 an hour then of course there's going to be a shortage. And like I've said before, it's perfectly reasonable for someone to decide going to work in the middle of a global pandemic that may kill or permanently injure them is not worth minimum wage.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

...it's perfectly reasonable for someone to decide going to work in the middle of a global pandemic that may kill or permanently injure them is not worth minimum wage.

Not according to some people. They believe that these peons only have value in what services they can provide for their betters; if they don't provide those services, they have no worth and ought to die rather than be a drain on the economy.