Our Covid Response

TheMysteriousGX

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Thanks, will review your post.
I tested positive 11/28 and have to quarantine for 10 days. The impact on me has been very mild. Is that because I'm double jabbed? Is it because the virus has evolved to be more contagious and less deadly in order to better survive? I don't know.
I mean, we *could* know, but if we test for variants and mutations it might hurt international trade and the economy
 
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bluegate

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Thanks, will review your link.
I tested positive 11/28 and have to quarantine for 10 days. The impact on me has been very mild. Is that because I'm double jabbed? Is it because the virus has evolved to be more contagious and less deadly in order to better survive? I don't know.
Unless you have an immune deficiency or some sort of bad luck, the vaccinations you got triggered your body to create anti-bodies to fight the virus.

Your body is now using the knowledge gained from that "mock-infection" to fight the actual virus.

I would say that there's a rather high probability that the vaccinations you got are a large contributing factor to your current mild symptoms.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Because dipshits are taking it anyway and scientists naively believe that evidence can sway people
Just wow...


Why would I ask a prisoner, seeing as living in lockdown is utterly incomparable to living in prison?

And leaving the country... OK, you realise millions of people worldwide already can't leave their country because of economic reasons, right? Are you content to argue that the global poor are living in "prison"?
Just wow again... I'm turning into Owen Wilson here. You think it's OK to force people to stay in a country that they do in fact have the resources to leave? SHOW ME PROOF lockdowns saved lives. Every single fucking cost-benefit analysis has shown far far far far more life lost from lockdowns than the few covid deaths they saved. Canada did one, New Zealand did one, here's one from Jama showing life lost JUST from closing schools in the Spring of 2020. Lockdowns have greatly hurt the poor and vulnerable. If you disagree, SHOW YOUR PROOF.

oh hey, another example of conservatives NEARLY getting it.
Covid policy caused those bars to get a lot stronger. It's a progressive idea in evenly spreading the wealth, correct? And it's something I'm very much for because I am very progressive (it's just that the left has went nuts recently). However, covid policies did the exact opposite of that in the greatest shift of wealth to the rich in human history. Having the poor working all the "essential" jobs during a pandemic is the same as sending to poor to fight the many wars of the past.

Covid policy was basically this System of a Down song:
Why do they always send the poor?!?!


You're aware that international travel is a two party arrangement right? If I for whatever reason wanted to visit London, I need to apply to the British High Commission to visit. And even without COVID they can refuse my entry for any reason they deem fit.
Australia is stopping people from leaving their country. It's not to do with the US or UK or EU not letting them come over.


Other than Australian meant to be that land of prisoners in the first place...

All of the lockdowns that happened in Sydney and Melbourne were the direct result of people flying in from overseas and then not quarantining properly. Literally tens of thousand of people. My cousin wife flew to the UK earlier this year with a 5 month old baby. Her mother, who you can read about in the UK papers due to her court case and the complexity of her COVID symptoms (she been in able to move her eyebrows since last December. And that's about it. Not even a head tilt, or even her eyes really. Can get a groan going. Fuck COVID), needed some care, while the sister dealt with court proceedings. She was able to FLY BACK INTO AUSTRALIA this year. They have now FLOWN BACK to Manchester a few weeks ago. All this during our supposed 'prison sentence.'

But hey, go on about this prison we have. As to your quality of life nonsense. Yes, some people cant go to Bali. What a tragedy. But that's to make sure the rest of your quality of life can remain the same. I cannot tell you how little COVID has effected me where I live (Melbourne does sound bad though.) My quality of life is pretty much the same. The Australian government made the most of this by suggesting tourism in Australian instead of flying overseas. It's been quite popular. Opening borders would have negatively effected the QoL of Australians way more than shutting them

Anyway, from Nov 1, the borders are gradually opening up. My state is taking more on Dec 17

Maybe you just need to ask the right Australian? You know, the one that's just going to agree with you.
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PEOPLE NOT BEING ABLE TO GO TO BALI OR VACATION. Read actual cost-benefit analysis of the lockdowns, which don't take into account people vacationing in Bali or whatever. It's about people dying of suicides and drug overdoses. It's about people not getting proper medical screenings. Child abuse not being known and reported because kids aren't in school. It's about kids mental health and nutrition. Kids are being GREATLY punished for a virus that affects them less than the flu, they can't play with other kids, play sports, get meals at school, lose a year+ of learning and development. Being social is very important to humans in general let alone kids that are learning about that by socializing with other kids. There is/was a covid policy in Australia that you can only have one kid (+parent) at a park at a time and no kids over 12 could go to the park, that is beyond fucking retarded. The tragedy done to just kids alone due to covid policy is a far greater tragedy that covid itself could've ever caused.

Southeast Asia incurred over 200,000 additional deaths of children under five in these six countries due to crucial services, ranging from nutrition benefits to immunisation, being halted. That's just kids under 5 in 6 countries let alone of all ages and the rest of the world.
 

Gordon_4

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Australia is stopping people from leaving their country. It's not to do with the US or UK or EU not letting them come over.
Yes, and it has the right to do so in certain circumstances. One of which is public health. For a full run down you’d need to read the Migration Act and the Border Force Act. Both of which will have more exceptions and powers regarding leaving or entering the country.
 
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Cheetodust

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Covid policy caused those bars to get a lot stronger. It's a progressive idea in evenly spreading the wealth, correct? And it's something I'm very much for because I am very progressive (it's just that the left has went nuts recently). However, covid policies did the exact opposite of that in the greatest shift of wealth to the rich in human history. Having the poor working all the "essential" jobs during a pandemic is the same as sending to poor to fight the many wars of the past.
that's not an argument against covid measures, that's an argument that capitalism isn't equipped to deal with a crisis.
 

Kwak

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I don't know.
You don't have to, because there are qualified people studying these things.
The data points to vaccination being the reason.
 

Seanchaidh

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Is that because I'm double jabbed?
Probably had something to do with it.

Is it because the virus has evolved to be more contagious and less deadly in order to better survive?
Consider:

Most people who catch COVID-19 already recover from it (though perhaps with symptoms that proceed long after the virus is extinguished). So why would it become less deadly? It's going to spread regardless so long as there is sufficient contact between people with the disease and those without.
 

tstorm823

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Most people who catch COVID-19 already recover from it (though perhaps with symptoms that proceed long after the virus is extinguished). So why would it become less deadly? It's going to spread regardless so long as there is sufficient contact between people with the disease and those without.
By coincidence. If a less deadly variant that is defeated by the same immune response is significantly more contagious, it can out compete in the spreading and leave a big barrier of immune populations in its wake. It's not that a variant has to be more contagious because it's less deadly, it just needs both those factors.
 

Trunkage

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THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PEOPLE NOT BEING ABLE TO GO TO BALI OR VACATION. Read actual cost-benefit analysis of the lockdowns, which don't take into account people vacationing in Bali or whatever. It's about people dying of suicides and drug overdoses. It's about people not getting proper medical screenings. Child abuse not being known and reported because kids aren't in school. It's about kids mental health and nutrition. Kids are being GREATLY punished for a virus that affects them less than the flu, they can't play with other kids, play sports, get meals at school, lose a year+ of learning and development. Being social is very important to humans in general let alone kids that are learning about that by socializing with other kids. There is/was a covid policy in Australia that you can only have one kid (+parent) at a park at a time and no kids over 12 could go to the park, that is beyond fucking retarded. The tragedy done to just kids alone due to covid policy is a far greater tragedy that covid itself could've ever caused.

Southeast Asia incurred over 200,000 additional deaths of children under five in these six countries due to crucial services, ranging from nutrition benefits to immunisation, being halted. That's just kids under 5 in 6 countries let alone of all ages and the rest of the world.
Let's say that this is completely accurate (just for the record, I dont. This was, for example, written right before India's biggest wave killing 200K) 200K additional deaths, right. Compared to 5.2 from COVID WITH the lockdowns. Let me do some quick math here.. 11 times worse. Oh, wait. What are you talking about?

So lets take a country with no lockdown. Sweden. !0 million population. 15K deaths

Australia population 25 million. 2K deaths

Let's make the picture more level. To get to Australia's population, we have to bump Sweden's numbers up 2.5 times. So 37.5K deaths, if the populations were the same and death rate remained the same. Thus, Australia saved 35.5K lives with its lockdowns. Jesus, that's terrible going Australia. So let's compare to the other things you are whining about...

Here's some stats from the Australian government Deaths by suicide over time - Australian Institute of Health and Welfare (aihw.gov.au)

This is nifty because you can change the years and what not. Oh, what's that. Suicides went DOWN in Australia in 2020? Well, fuck me. It's almost like this suicide nonsense is just made up.

Can you tell me what happens when a hospital gets overloaded with COVID? Well, lots of things. But pertinent to this discuss is MEDICAL SCREENINGS. Because they are too busy with COVID and cant look after other patient without accidentally killing them. It's almost like this is just made up nonsense

As a parent who had to look after my children during COVID, I understand that its tough. As a teacher, hearing from a variety of services around the places, there didn't seem to be an increase. But here are some stats Family and domestic violence sexual assault up 13% | Australian Bureau of Statistics (abs.gov.au)

Yep, up 13%. But your solution is just fuck lockdowns. Not, you know, maybe spend resources to counteract this. Because lockdowns are evil... even though theft and break ins went down by 23% and car theft went down by 17%. Wait, is this cherry picked data to pretend that lockdowns are all bad. What a surprise. It's almost like there's a theme going on here.

Anyway, my children did sport during COVID. 6 weeks away from school, so that's less than 10% loss of in person teaching. We went to the parks all the time, played with the children on the street. BECUASE WE FUCKING LOCKDOWN SO COVID DID SHUT US DOWN. Because that's what COVID does. Shuts down a country

Anyway, this is a relation of mine Family of woman with Covid allowed to appeal against end-of-life ruling - BBC News

Thank God Bojo never worried too much about doing a proper lockdown. It could have gone terribly for her.

That was sarcasm.

Here's there thing. I don't deny lockdowns weren't tough. The solutions does NOT HAVE to be get rid of them. If you have some systems in place, like better mental health services, you can mitigate some of the damage a lockdown can cause... you know, like how the lockdown is a mitigation of COVID (saving 35K lives, just in Australia.) I don't deny that some places don't have those services. I don't deny that some lockdowns were too much (eg. China's first response.) But all those services that you were so worried about in the article are affected by not having a lockdown, just like it is affected by having a lockdown. There is a global shortage on a lot of things, and it happening irrelevant of lockdowns. It's ONLY happening because of COVID

But hey, i got it. Lockdowns are evil.
 

Silvanus

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Just wow again... I'm turning into Owen Wilson here. You think it's OK to force people to stay in a country that they do in fact have the resources to leave?
Yes, I do, if there is an overwhelming reason for it.

If you think that's "prison", then it follows that you believe the poor-- who do not have the resources to leave-- are all living in prison. Do you?

SHOW ME PROOF lockdowns saved lives. Every single fucking cost-benefit analysis has shown far far far far more life lost from lockdowns than the few covid deaths they saved. Canada did one, New Zealand did one, here's one from Jama showing life lost JUST from closing schools in the Spring of 2020. Lockdowns have greatly hurt the poor and vulnerable. If you disagree, SHOW YOUR PROOF.
There's absolutely no chance that you'll look at the evidence and honestly engage with it, so what's the point?

Deaths plummeted when lockdown was implemented here in the UK. The same is true of most countries that implemented them. This is not arguable. Its universally recognised, publicly-available data. You have your head in the sand.
 

Seanchaidh

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By coincidence. If a less deadly variant that is defeated by the same immune response is significantly more contagious, it can out compete in the spreading and leave a big barrier of immune populations in its wake. It's not that a variant has to be more contagious because it's less deadly, it just needs both those factors.
ok. but it's not like there's selection pressure for a less deadly virus.
 

XsjadoBlayde

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Agema

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If you think that's "prison", then it follows that you believe the poor-- who do not have the resources to leave-- are all living in prison. Do you?
Oh my god man, have some sympathy. Australians have been limited to an entire continent to roam around in: it's amazing they haven't all gone stir crazy.
 
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Agema

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It's about people not getting proper medical screenings.
I'm pretty sure the health service being locked solid with covid victims on ventilators is worse for health than a few routine check-ups postponed.
 

Agema

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here's one from Jama showing life lost JUST from closing schools in the Spring of 2020
I fear the key word you are missing out from that paper is "may".

Specifically: "the decision to close US public primary schools in the early months of 2020 may be associated with a decrease in life expectancy for US children"

Secondly, no-one even needs to read the paper to know it is speculative to such a huge degree that it is nothing more than glorified guesswork.
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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I fear the key word you are missing out from that paper is "may".

Specifically: "the decision to close US public primary schools in the early months of 2020 may be associated with a decrease in life expectancy for US children"

Secondly, no-one even needs to read the paper to know it is speculative to such a huge degree that it is nothing more than glorified guesswork.
Man, I *read* the paper. Calling it glorified guesswork is generous. For one, it's only maybe true if the US does literally nothing to compensate schools being closed down, now or in the future, based on a study about teacher strikes in Argentina, which didn't have remote learning of any kind and, not to disparage Argentina, we have much more in the way of resources we can throw at this potential problem down the line.

The problem isn't school closures, the problem is the USA's pathological avoidance of using government resources to help people.
 
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Cheetodust

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Fuck it, I'm starting a business for all these people who spend their money on consuming poison. Give me one up front payment of all the money you have and I will strangle you with my bare hands. That way they don't have to slowly piss away their money on eventually killing themselves, they can just get it over with in an afternoon. As a real bargain, I won't even charge extra for my travel expenses.
 

Cheetodust

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Man, I *read* the paper. Calling it glorified guesswork is generous. For one, it's only maybe true if the US does literally nothing to compensate schools being closed down, now or in the future, based on a study about teacher strikes in Argentina, which didn't have remote learning of any kind and, not to disparage Argentina, we have much more in the way of resources we can throw at this potential problem down the line.

The problem isn't school closures, the problem is the USA's pathological avoidance of using government resources to help people.
I have to read a lot of papers right now and I still took time out to read that one. It's just so dumb.
 

RhombusHatesYou

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Oh my god man, have some sympathy. Australians have been limited to an entire continent to roam around in: it's amazing they haven't all gone stir crazy.
Heh.

That's not exactly true, though. There were (and still are in places) heavy travel restrictions between States and even at times travel restrictions between regional and metropolitan areas. Western Australia is still pretty much closed off from the rest of Australia but polls have shown that most Sandgropers are fine with that as they're under almost no other public health restrictions (and they tend to be psychologically closed off from the rest of Australia in general).