Our Covid Response

Trunkage

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Really? Someone (that's not China) is still trying for a zero covid strategy that's not possible and never gonna happen? That's so quaint. Also, why? Covid is now less deadly than the flu so why are we going to all these lengths for someone less deadly than the flu when we never went to these same lengths to get rid of the flu? The public is not gonna wear N95s for something so very low risk.
There are about 50 to 70k US citizens dying of the flu most years

This year, Covid has STILL killed almost 300k. This is down from the last two years, yes. It's still 4 times as deadly as the flu

'Less Deadly' seems to actually mean more deadly in your world

No, I don't agree with China position. I think its unnecessary, authoritarian and belligerent.
Yes, you are making terrible arguments that those who DO support China position can use to make us all look stupid

Please stop, please and thank you
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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There are about 50 to 70k US citizens dying of the flu most years

This year, Covid has STILL killed almost 300k. This is down from the last two years, yes. It's still 4 times as deadly as the flu

'Less Deadly' seems to actually mean more deadly in your world
That's not to mention that the flu is counted differently than covid. Like, covid kills you, the flu generally opens the door to a wide variety of pneumonias that kill you. The flu by itself only kills like, a few hundred a year? Maybe a couple thousand in a bad year? That's why the number spread for "flu and related pneumonias" is so hilariously large
 

Thaluikhain

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There are about 50 to 70k US citizens dying of the flu most years

This year, Covid has STILL killed almost 300k. This is down from the last two years, yes. It's still 4 times as deadly as the flu

'Less Deadly' seems to actually mean more deadly in your world
And it's more deadly than the flu when we (or at least a large portion of "we") take it much more seriously than we take the flu.
 

Phoenixmgs

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...And, in typical fashion, you've taken that cautious, "possibility" conclusion and extrapolated your own definite, 100% version from it.



Of course they haven't "magically just figured it out"-- it's been known for decades that numerous respiratory diseases can have long-lasting effects after the acute infection. There's no "heated debate" over whether it's entirely psychosomatic-- it's categorically not.

There may be a psychosomatic element. Again you've looked at one factor, offering a partial explanation for the phenomenon, and extrapolated a definite 100% conclusion that the researchers never did.
We literally know it's true, it's just to what degree. You guys all take cautious conclusions to their extremes like I could never get Agema to admit masking outside is stupid. I don't think any of you guys have admitted closing schools was a mistake either even now with all the hindsight.

It is a heated debate...


Don't you get it? If we just wear masks 24/7, all of the world's cold viruses will be eradicated from nature in no time! /s
There's people that want to "clean the air" now to protect from covid and other viruses when 1) we have no idea if that actually works (filters that will actually cause less transmissions) and 2) we have no idea of the downsides if it actually does work.

There are about 50 to 70k US citizens dying of the flu most years

This year, Covid has STILL killed almost 300k. This is down from the last two years, yes. It's still 4 times as deadly as the flu

'Less Deadly' seems to actually mean more deadly in your world

No, I don't agree with China position. I think its unnecessary, authoritarian and belligerent.
Yes, you are making terrible arguments that those who DO support China position can use to make us all look stupid

Please stop, please and thank you
Covid is less deadly than the flu now even in the highest age groups with regards to the IFR. So if someone were to get the flu, the chance of death is higher now than covid; however, the chance of getting covid is much higher than catching the flu and thus the deaths totals are higher because of that. I have a feeling that covid has gotten weak enough to where it's not going to be super transmissible now because of how were seeing stuff like RSV and just head colds coming back meaning covid isn't out-competing them nearly like it did the last 2 years. So many people around me are getting sick and they're covid negative and of course, the RSV outbreaks and flu is making it's presence known more than ever in the southern hemisphere (during our summer) than at any time in the pandemic. Covid has lost much of its competitive advantage.

I didn't say anything about the China position outside they are like the only country that still thinks you can have a zero covid strategy. That is just so asinine, it's not even funny. And if someone does want to get to zero covid and thinks it's possible to do, you'll have to implement very authoritarian policies to get it done. You think people are just gonna follow along perfectly complying and do the things it takes to get to zero covid? That's not gonna happen. I don't think people that are still wanting to get to zero covid want to be authoritarian and be like China, it's just that you ain't gonna get there without being like China and they just don't realize that. I bring up China not as a scare tactic for their authoritarian policies (to be locked in your home or pets killed or children taken), I bring it up because ZERO COVID DOESN'T FUCKING WORK even when going to extreme lengths.
 

Phoenixmgs

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And it's more deadly than the flu when we (or at least a large portion of "we") take it much more seriously than we take the flu.
Much of the stuff we did taking it seriously didn't do a damn thing. We were told to do shit like washing your hands vs opening your windows when the later works really well and the former does nothing.
 

Silvanus

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We literally know it's true, it's just to what degree. You guys all take cautious conclusions to their extremes like I could never get Agema to admit masking outside is stupid.
No: what we "know is true" is that symptoms typical of long covid are not unique to covid. They also exist in people who have had other respiratory illnesses, and also-- at a much lower rate-- in people who have had no history of acute illness.

That's what your study showed. You've taken that and extrapolated an extreme conclusion the researchers never did, and which the research doesn't warrant: that long covid is completely unconnected to covid. Utterly absurd.

I don't think any of you guys have admitted closing schools was a mistake either even now with all the hindsight.
Because you keep trying to tie us to public health policies which we've never endorsed.


It is a heated debate...
...that's about ME and CFS. Not long covid.
 

Phoenixmgs

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No: what we "know is true" is that symptoms typical of long covid are not unique to covid. They also exist in people who have had other respiratory illnesses, and also-- at a much lower rate-- in people who have had no history of acute illness.

That's what your study showed. You've taken that and extrapolated an extreme conclusion the researchers never did, and which the research doesn't warrant: that long covid is completely unconnected to covid. Utterly absurd.



Because you keep trying to tie us to public health policies which we've never endorsed.




...that's about ME and CFS. Not long covid.
Loss of smell was the only long-term symptom associated with actually having had covid.
The survey also asked participants about more than 20 symptoms associated with long COVID, including soreness, fatigue, poor concentration, trouble breathing, and chest pain. For most of the categories, a belief in having had COVID-19 was associated with currently having a symptom that had lasted for more than 8 weeks, after adjusting for age, sex, income, educational level, self-rated health, and depressive symptoms. However, loss of smell was the only long-term symptom associated with a positive serology test after adjustments.

What are you even talking about? Simply answer the following question. Knowing what you know now, would you have closed schools going into the 2020-2021 school year? Yes or no.

And they're probably the same thing...
 

Silvanus

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Loss of smell was the only long-term symptom associated with actually having had covid.
The survey also asked participants about more than 20 symptoms associated with long COVID, including soreness, fatigue, poor concentration, trouble breathing, and chest pain. For most of the categories, a belief in having had COVID-19 was associated with currently having a symptom that had lasted for more than 8 weeks, after adjusting for age, sex, income, educational level, self-rated health, and depressive symptoms. However, loss of smell was the only long-term symptom associated with a positive serology test after adjustments.
Yeah-- I'd recommend you take a look at the degree to which adjustments were required to reach that conclusion. The raw data of the same study, by the researcher's own description, doesn't give the same picture:

Jama Network said:
Before adjustment, the belief in having had COVID-19 infection was associated with 14 of 18 categories of persistent symptoms, whereas a positive serology test result was associated with 10 categories of persistent symptoms. After mutual adjustment, positive belief was significantly associated with higher odds of having all persistent symptoms. [...] By contrast, a positive serology test result remained positively associated only with anosmia
So, a great deal of lifting being done by those adjustments. Adjustments which include (uhrm) "self-rated health".

Of course, adjusting for sex, age, income etc is all very standard... but when your entire study is based on self-reportage, then using those adjustments to completely erase positive relationships is a bit iffy.

What are you even talking about? Simply answer the following question. Knowing what you know now, would you have closed schools going into the 2020-2021 school year? Yes or no.
Why? That's not what we're talking about. I've already told you before, I have no interest in discussing public health policy with you.

And they're probably the same thing...
So just another huge leap of assumption, then.
 

Trunkage

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Covid is less deadly than the flu now even in the highest age groups with regards to the IFR. So if someone were to get the flu, the chance of death is higher now than covid; however, the chance of getting covid is much higher than catching the flu and thus the deaths totals are higher because of that. I have a feeling that covid has gotten weak enough to where it's not going to be super transmissible now because of how were seeing stuff like RSV and just head colds coming back meaning covid isn't out-competing them nearly like it did the last 2 years. So many people around me are getting sick and they're covid negative and of course, the RSV outbreaks and flu is making it's presence known more than ever in the southern hemisphere (during our summer) than at any time in the pandemic. Covid has lost much of its competitive advantage.

I didn't say anything about the China position outside they are like the only country that still thinks you can have a zero covid strategy. That is just so asinine, it's not even funny. And if someone does want to get to zero covid and thinks it's possible to do, you'll have to implement very authoritarian policies to get it done. You think people are just gonna follow along perfectly complying and do the things it takes to get to zero covid? That's not gonna happen. I don't think people that are still wanting to get to zero covid want to be authoritarian and be like China, it's just that you ain't gonna get there without being like China and they just don't realize that. I bring up China not as a scare tactic for their authoritarian policies (to be locked in your home or pets killed or children taken), I bring it up because ZERO COVID DOESN'T FUCKING WORK even when going to extreme lengths.
Why did you reply to me if you're just going to repeat/paraphrase what I said?

Yes, I am very aware that you are using a very different version of the term deadly than most people. I'm pretty sure I pointed this out at the start. Like normal, you strip out the context to get a word to say what you want it to say

If you are going to use this definition of deadly, understand it less than pointless to the whole conversation. It will make an argument against Zero Covid incredibly weak. Hence me asking you to stop.

It was funny before but now that we are advocating for everyone to open up, you are providing evidence for lockdown because your argument is that bad. I am nominally on your side and I cannot think of a worse argument. Please stop
 

Phoenixmgs

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My dude, we do not have a subscription to the Financial Times. Christ, at least when I post a Twitter post, you get the whole quote plus whatever it's linking, not a pull quote with zero context nor data
I'm able to view the article without a subscription (not doing some work around either), I figured it was like other sites that give you X amount of views a month for free. They are literally using official ONS data. Here's the whole article in a spoiler tag.

A combination of high levels of immunity and the reduced severity of the Omicron variant has rendered Covid-19 less lethal than influenza for the vast majority of people in England, according to a Financial Times analysis of official data.

But the speed with which Omicron infects people still pushed the total number of deaths this winter whose underlying cause was a main respiratory disease to 9,641 since the first week of January, 50 per cent higher than in a typical flu season despite lower levels of social mixing, the Office for National Statistics figures revealed.
The high degree of immune protection from vaccination and previous infection among England’s population formed the basis of the government’s decisions to end legally enforced self-isolation last month and scale back free testing from April 1 as part of its “living with Covid” plan.

However, experts said a recent increase in hospital admissions — possibly driven by decreased behavioural caution after the dropping of restrictions or protection from the booster waning for older age groups — highlighted the risk of the government’s strategy.

“Is Omicron the same as flu? No. But the vaccines have made the risks to the individual very similar,” said Dr Raghib Ali, senior clinical research associate in epidemiology at Cambridge university, who added that this made a “large spike” in hospital admissions or deaths “unlikely” while Omicron remained the dominant strain.

Chart showing that in England, Covid has grown gradually less lethal over the pandemic, mainly due to immunity, and is now slightly less lethal than flu on average
The proportion of people infected with Covid-19 in England who go on to die has dipped below that of seasonal flu, which has an infection fatality rate of roughly 0.04 per cent, for the first time during the pandemic, according to the FT calculations.

The infection fatality rate from Covid-19 fell more than 10-fold from a little more than 1 per cent in January 2021 to 0.1 per cent in July as the UK’s vaccination campaign was rolled out, and the emergence of Omicron brought about a further three-fold reduction.

For every 100,000 Omicron infections, 35 will result in death, while the equivalent number of flu infections will lead to around 40 fatalities, the data showed. Even among the over-80s, where about one-in-200 Omicron infections still results in death, this figure is now lower than the equivalent for flu.

Animated chart showing that when we were first exposed to Covid, it was almost 20 times as lethal as flu for the most vulnerable, but since then immunity, improved treatments and a less virulent variant have reduced its severity, meaning it is now slightly less deadly than flu even for older people in England
Peter Openshaw, professor of experimental medicine at Imperial College London, said the government’s strategy of treating Covid-19 similarly to flu by relying on public health messaging and targeted testing, instead of bigger interventions, was “risky” but so far “had gone according to plan”.

“If our immunity stays high, the infection fatality rate will stay low,” said Openshaw. But he added that, if waning immunity or a new variant cause problems, “we now have delays built into the system”. He added: “Winding testing down means it will take time to wind it back up.”

Downing Street said on Wednesday: “We still continue to see the effectiveness of vaccinations, and Omicron seems to be more mild for most people.”
After falling for the past two months since the peak of the Omicron wave, Covid-19-related hospital admissions are on the rise again across the UK. There were 8,153 admissions recorded in England in the week to March 7, up 21 per cent from the week before.

Chart showing that the number of new Covid cases in English hospitals is rising again among all age groups

However, more than two-fifths of Covid-19 patients in England’s hospitals are being treated primarily for something else, having incidentally tested positive upon admission.

Unvaccinated people accounted for 15 per cent of adult admissions across England between late January and late February, according to UK Health Security Agency data, despite making up just 9 per cent of the adult population at the start of the period.

Christina Pagel, professor of operational research at University College London and a member of the Independent Sage group of scientific experts, said Omicron’s rapid transmissibility meant “the threat of Covid could still not be equated to flu”. This was especially the case because the BA. 2 sub-variant, which is about 30 per cent more infectious than the original Omicron, was dominant in the UK, added Pagel.

Pagel attributed the recent rise in hospital admissions to a mix of waning protection from the vaccines, the spread of BA. 2 and the end of most Covid-19 measures giving the virus more chance to infect people and cause severe illness. “I would be really surprised if we have a massive new wave. I wouldn’t be surprised if we end up having what we had with Delta where we get stuck at a high plateau for months and months on end,” she predicted.

Chart showing that although Covid is much less lethal than a year ago, it still elevated winter respiratory deaths by around 50 per cent compared to a typical flu season
Despite vaccination blunting Omicron’s lethality, its fast-spreading nature meant the total number of deaths whose underlying cause was either Covid-19, flu or pneumonia has still been 50 per cent higher since Omicron took hold in early December than over the same period during a typical flu season. The total respiratory disease fatalities were also 30 per cent higher than even during historically bad flu seasons, such as 2014-15 and 2017-18.

This represents a steep reduction compared to the previous winter’s Alpha variant wave, when there were about seven times as many deaths caused by any of the three respiratory infections, but nonetheless demonstrates that coronavirus is still adding to the winter disease burden.

However, Cambridge university’s Ali said that now that the risk of Covid-19 and flu were “in the same ballpark” it was “reasonable” for the government to “strike the right balance between preserving people’s freedoms and protecting those who are most vulnerable”.

Professor Julian Hiscox, chair of infection and global health at Liverpool university, cautioned against “complacency” over the reduced threat from Covid, adding that the offer of an additional spring booster should be widened from just over-75s and immunosuppressed people to all over-50s.

“We want to avoid dithering with the extra booster now and then getting caught on the back foot,” said Hiscox, who warned that “all of this could be academic if a new variant comes along”.

This article has been amended to correct the infection fatality rate of seasonal flu. The first chart has been amended to reflect the corrected range of the IFR.
Methodology: how the FT calculated infection fatality rates for Covid-19 and flu

The infection fatality rate (IFR) for Covid-19 was calculated using a numerator of deaths where Covid-19 was mentioned on the death certificate, and a denominator of estimated total infections from the ONS infection survey, both for England.

To account for the lag between infection and death, infections were shifted forwards using a log-normal distribution with an average of 26.8 days, based on prior academic research by Simon Wood. For any given date, deaths were then divided by lagged cases to arrive at the IFR.

For flu, the methodology was adapted from prior work by Marc Bevand. The starting point was the US CDC’s estimates of age-specific total symptomatic influenza infections and deaths in the 2019-20 flu season.

To move from symptomatic infections to total infections in line with the definitions used for Covid-19, the symptomatic figures were inflated to account for the fact that somewhere in the region of two-thirds to three-quarters of flu infections are asymptomatic.

The resulting figures for age-specific flu infection fatality rate (including asymptomatic infections) were then mapped onto the English population age structure to produce a population-level IFR for England.

If one assumes two-thirds of flu infections are asymptomatic, the resulting IFR for England is 0.0457%. Assuming three-quarters are asymptomatic gives an IFR of 0.0346%. The midpoint of these two estimates is 0.04%.

1668743494531.png

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Also, I see you fail to answer my question about forcing the vaccine on people that will get worse medical outcomes by taking the vaccine (that I provided proof for).

And immunity debt is a thing, this is why I tell you not to get your science from Twitter. I queued up the video to the spot about immunity debt and it's totally a thing with peer reviewed articles and everything. It's known science. I told you that lady's arguments were so bad and didn't make any sense. I didn't do the research on immunity debt to know whether it was real or not that's why I said she could be right but her argument was horrible, and yeah, she's totally wrong. I really don't understand you couldn't parse out how illogically bad the argument was (there were so many contradictions in it).


Why did you reply to me if you're just going to repeat/paraphrase what I said?

Yes, I am very aware that you are using a very different version of the term deadly than most people. I'm pretty sure I pointed this out at the start. Like normal, you strip out the context to get a word to say what you want it to say

If you are going to use this definition of deadly, understand it less than pointless to the whole conversation. It will make an argument against Zero Covid incredibly weak. Hence me asking you to stop.

It was funny before but now that we are advocating for everyone to open up, you are providing evidence for lockdown because your argument is that bad. I am nominally on your side and I cannot think of a worse argument. Please stop
So you're saying there's like an actual valid argument for zero covid?!?!
 

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Phoenixmgs

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Yeah-- I'd recommend you take a look at the degree to which adjustments were required to reach that conclusion. The raw data of the same study, by the researcher's own description, doesn't give the same picture:



So, a great deal of lifting being done by those adjustments. Adjustments which include (uhrm) "self-rated health".

Of course, adjusting for sex, age, income etc is all very standard... but when your entire study is based on self-reportage, then using those adjustments to completely erase positive relationships is a bit iffy.



Why? That's not what we're talking about. I've already told you before, I have no interest in discussing public health policy with you.



So just another huge leap of assumption, then.
They only did self-rated health adjustments for models 4 and 5, and those models' numbers aren't even referenced in the results so how is that adjustment doing the heavy lifting? Regardless of how the numbers play out exactly and your preference for these adjustments, the fact is that people that did not have covid had "long covid".

Before adjustment, the belief in having had COVID-19 infection was associated with 14 of 18 categories of persistent symptoms (Table 3, model 1), whereas a positive serology test result was associated with 10 categories of persistent symptoms (Table 3, model 2). After mutual adjustment, positive belief was significantly associated with higher odds of having all persistent symptoms, with odds ratios (ORs) ranging from 1.44 (95% CI, 1.08-1.90) to 16.61 (95% CI, 10.30-26.77) except for hearing impairment (OR, 1.38; 95% CI, 0.76-2.51), joint pain (odds ratio, 1.32; 95% CI, 0.98-1.80) and sleep problems (OR, 1.12; 95% CI, 0.87-1.44) (Table 3, model 3). By contrast, a positive serology test result remained positively associated only with anosmia (OR, 2.59; 95% CI, 1.57-4.28) and was negatively associated with skin problems (OR, 0.46; 95% CI, 0.27-0.80) (Table 3, model 3). There was no significant interaction between belief and serology. Adjusting for self-rated health or depressive symptoms yielded similar results except for back pain (OR, 1.33; 95% CI, 1.00-1.77), which was no longer associated with belief when adjusting for depressive symptoms (eTable 6 in Supplement 1).


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There's not a big difference between your opinion on something covid related and public policy. What's the difference between answering if you'd feel safe sending your kids to school vs if you think schools should be open? It's basically the same question. If you don't care about public policy, then why are you constantly trying to tell people what to do with regards to covid?

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What HUGE LEAP? It's the "consensus" hypothesis that they are basically the same.

A wide variety of infections can cause ME/CFS, and SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19, is no different: Many cases of long COVID are effectively ME/CFS by another name.
 
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Silvanus

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They only did self-rated health adjustments for models 4 and 5, and those models' numbers aren't even referenced in the results so how is that adjustment doing the heavy lifting?
The adjustments are the sole reason that the positive relationship between 9 symptoms and positive serology is not in the results.

Without adjustment, positive serology for covid had a positive relationship with 10 LC symptoms.

Regardless of how the numbers play out exactly and your preference for these adjustments, the fact is that people that did not have covid had "long covid".
People who did not have covid had the same symptoms as are typical of LC-- but at a lower rate. Which was never in dispute.
 

Trunkage

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So you're saying there's like an actual valid argument for zero covid?!?!
Valid? What's valid got to do with it?

You decided to strip a bunch of data out of what was happening in the pandemic so you can make 'deadly' means something completely different from normal just so you dont have to wash your hands or wear a mask. (This is just paraphrasing your argument above.)

That's not valid. Even if you admit to propogandising data. Nor was it valid in February 2020 when the argument was first pulled out. Yet you did it anyway

You haven't cared about valid. I don't know why you're pretending now.

What I'm saying is you using invalid arguments that are so easy to knock down you have already done it yourself. Zero Covid people will just use your invalid and very easily disproven argument as an excuse to put in their policies

Dont worry about. I'll just have to explain that were have different arguments, even if we have the same goal. I'll just have to pled for them to hear me out so they dont lump me in with your nonsense
 

crimson5pheonix

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Valid? What's valid got to do with it?

You decided to strip a bunch of data out of what was happening in the pandemic so you can make 'deadly' means something completely different from normal just so you dont have to wash your hands or wear a mask. (This is just paraphrasing your argument above.)

That's not valid. Even if you admit to propogandising data. Nor was it valid in February 2020 when the argument was first pulled out. Yet you did it anyway

You haven't cared about valid. I don't know why you're pretending now.

What I'm saying is you using invalid arguments that are so easy to knock down you have already done it yourself. Zero Covid people will just use your invalid and very easily disproven argument as an excuse to put in their policies

Dont worry about. I'll just have to explain that were have different arguments, even if we have the same goal. I'll just have to pled for them to hear me out so they dont lump me in with your nonsense
You wrote expecting to be read. I'm not sure why you expected that.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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The adjustments are the sole reason that the positive relationship between 9 symptoms and positive serology is not in the results.

Without adjustment, positive serology for covid had a positive relationship with 10 LC symptoms.



People who did not have covid had the same symptoms as are typical of LC-- but at a lower rate. Which was never in dispute.
The self-rated care adjustment that you claimed was doing the heavy lifting was indeed not doing the heavy lifting.

At a lower rate in total sum (as covid was the very dominant respiratory virus). A lower rate in frequency? No one would know that.


Valid? What's valid got to do with it?

You decided to strip a bunch of data out of what was happening in the pandemic so you can make 'deadly' means something completely different from normal just so you dont have to wash your hands or wear a mask. (This is just paraphrasing your argument above.)

That's not valid. Even if you admit to propogandising data. Nor was it valid in February 2020 when the argument was first pulled out. Yet you did it anyway

You haven't cared about valid. I don't know why you're pretending now.

What I'm saying is you using invalid arguments that are so easy to knock down you have already done it yourself. Zero Covid people will just use your invalid and very easily disproven argument as an excuse to put in their policies

Dont worry about. I'll just have to explain that were have different arguments, even if we have the same goal. I'll just have to pled for them to hear me out so they dont lump me in with your nonsense
What are you talking about? There was no data before the pandemic that masking works, there still isn't (they literally didn't even do the science of cluster randomized trials). Sure I might be wrong about masks but there's no proven science saying they work and regardless of if you're pro-mask or anti-mask, it's a belief in its current form. China already did the study before covid got to the US showing covid didn't spread via surfaces in any significant manner. No studies since have showed either covid spreads via surfaces in any meaningful manner. What the fuck am I "propagandizing"?

A covid zero strategy is literally stupid, it makes no sense and isn't possible, it's like trying to argue the earth is flat. China is literally the logical conclusion of trying to get to zero covid, that's where you'll end up regardless if you're trying it in China, US, France, etc.
 

Silvanus

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The self-rated care adjustment that you claimed was doing the heavy lifting was indeed not doing the heavy lifting.

At a lower rate in total sum (as covid was the very dominant respiratory virus). A lower rate in frequency? No one would know that.
OK, it seems you don't know what is meant by "positive relationship".

You don't get rates by looking at total sum. That's not what 'rate' means.
 

Phoenixmgs

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OK, it seems you don't know what is meant by "positive relationship".

You don't get rates by looking at total sum. That's not what 'rate' means.
Mis-typed that.

Here you go, brand new study about long covid with a control group. Guess what, the control group that was sick without covid did worse after 3 months than the covid group. Looks like long covid isn't anything thing to worry about (well, anymore than from any other viral infection). The fact that long covid was used as some scare tactic is ridiculous and anti-science.