Our Covid Response

[Silvanus]

No that's what it said.

It showed that long-term symptoms were not isolated to covid infections.

....but more likely among those who had covid. And for those people there was a biological indicator linking it to covid.

And, uhrm, no shit the symptoms aren't "isolated to covid". Shortness of breath? Fatigue? Pain in the throat?! If you only accept that a specific illness caused a symptom if that symptom is exclusive to that disease, you couldn't ever diagnose anything!

Arrested For Violating Coronavirus Stay-At-Home Mandates: Police Are Jailing Alleged Scofflaws

Local law enforcement around the country is arresting people who allegedly fail to follow social distance directives designed to slow coronavirus infections.

www.forbes.com

The news anchor, Ryan Grim, that was on The Hill and now Breaking Points was teaching his daughter to ride a bike in a park and they were forced to leave. And he moved out of the state because of that.

Yep, that's ridiculous. You believe that equals systematic oppression? I've seen similar instances of cops treating pedestrians badly, or wrongly telling people they can't film... does this mean there's systematic persecution of pedestrians and people with cameras in the US?

 

[gorfias]

This is just straightforward paranoid nonsense. By every single metric, the jab makes you safer, even for people who already have a measure of immunity. The danger is infinitesimal.

Honestly, I'd think that big pharma funded propaganda. There is footage of even Faucci, with dark hair!, saying it is silly to get a shot for something you already had and now have natural immunity. Let alone that the jab is not a vaccine but a leaky therapeutic. It would make more sense to get the flu shot even though you had the flu... which is what Faucci was calling silliness.

I am not writing you don't have links to support your position. Just given what else we know, the information is just not credible anymore. And the scary thing for someone like me is, these are sources we are supposed to be able to trust but can no longer.

There is a very large problem with natural immunity though. Big Pharma doesn't make money off of it.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

It's really funny how you're so against racism on something that isn't racist but not willing to take a stand against something that is very much and extremely racist. I bet you're gonna have a fit when the Supreme Court says affirmative action is unconstitutional.

I'm not going to argue stances that you're hallucinating for me and engage with arguments that are wildly off topic based on those hallucinated arguments

Nope, I don't recall his name as he was on The Daily Show like 20 years ago and listening to him ended up being one of the best decisions in my life probably. Only 12% of Americans are metabolically healthy and sugar is the main culprit. I was basically like if he's wrong and I stop drinking pop, I'm at least doing like the bare minimum for at least a somewhat decent diet and cutting out tons of empty calories and if he's right, then it'll be a massive improvement later in my quality of life.

Neat. Sugar isn't a poison and if 88% of the United States is metabolically unhealthy then it's very important they get vaccinated

Huh? When have I misrepresented your argument? You just get mad that I take it to the next logical point.

"The next logical point" that I have to defend the fake and false idea that the medical community has thought fat was a poison for 50 years? You and logic aren't on speaking terms

There's data literally showing several groups of people are put at more risk getting just vaccinated once (vs an actual covid infection).

Sounds like they should get fully vaccinated then

The same is true of certain groups with boosters as well. A one-size fits all health policy doesn't work. There's a reason why the CDC has the booster data for those under 50 and never has published it because it says they don't work.

You actually want me to believe that somebody getting a covid booster is more vulnerable to covid than somebody who didn't?

Fucking hell

I'm pretty sure I had a couple super mild cases of covid this summer as I would wake up with a sore throat every couple weeks that cleared up same day or next day (which never happens to me in the summer). One time even had a beginnings of a runny nose one day and cleared up next day when I got up (and I have no allergies whatsoever). What's so bad about having a low level infection of some endemic virus? That happens normally in the winter all the time. You act like I just make up all this shit when it's just basic scientific knowledge.

Pandemic 'immunity gap' is probably behind surge in RSV cases, scientists say | CNN

The measures that helped keep us safe from Covid-19 over the past 2½ years -- lockdowns, physical distancing, wearing masks, washing hands -- also helped limit the spread of other viruses. As people return to school and work and take off their masks, those viruses, including respiratory...

www.cnn.com

“Decreased exposure to endemic viruses created an immunity gap – a group of susceptible individuals who avoided infection and therefore lack pathogen-specific immunity to protect against future infection,” Messacar and Baker wrote this summer in a commentary published in the medical journal The Lancet.

"People who haven't gotten disease before are more likely to get sick from same disease later"

Wow. Shocking. Definitely a Pro-Disease argument. I should go get the flu now just so I don't get the flu later.

 

[Worgen]

At best everyone masking with cloth mask helps very very very minimally (all the best studies have shown basically no effect). Covid is airborne, not droplet based (technically very small droplets but). If you're vulnerable and what to do something in public, it's much better for you to wear an N95 with no one else wearing any masks than it is for you to wear a cloth mask with everyone else also wearing a cloth masks.

!00% that the n95 masks are best, but the double cloth masks that a lot of people were using helped a lot also. Not so much on an individual level, like one person using it and no one else, but in a group sense they worked well since they limited how far droplets would travel.

 

[Kwak]

If EDIT with higher figures: 1-5% of people that caught Covid with masks require hospital, without them, the number rises to 1.2-6. That is still, statistically speaking, insignificant.

Not when you are dealing populations of millions, and the infrastructure impacted by that "statistically insignificant" number.

 

[Silvanus]

Honestly, I'd think that big pharma funded propaganda.

It's factually, demonstrably not. All relevant research, in every country, including entirely independent research shows it conclusively. And post-vaccination we know the risk factors are barely existent. We know this because the unvaccinated are at a much higher risk, and the vaccinated hardly ever experience any ill effects beyond mild fatigue.

There is footage of even Faucci, with dark hair!, saying it is silly to get a shot for something you already had and now have natural immunity.

Yeah, and most viruses don't create worldwide pandemics. They don't threaten to overwhelm healthcare systems.

Let alone that the jab is not a vaccine but a leaky therapeutic. It would make more sense to get the flu shot even though you had the flu... which is what Faucci was calling silliness.

It is, factually, a vaccine. That's not in dispute.

And you may have noticed that flu shots are renewed every year because the dominant strains change. That's not just the case in America where "big pharma" funds the research. Its the case here, where we get the jabs for free.

 

[Buyetyen]

Its the case here, where we get the jabs for free.

Ask an anti-vaxxer how Big Pharma makes their money off of free vaccines sometime and you'll get one hell of an interesting dive into twisted un-logic and madness.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

That's what airborne means, dude. This has been explained to you.

I'm aware of that... I only put that in parenthesis because I figured someone would point out airborne is still droplet based because all you guys do is nitpick about small shit that doesn't matter.

....but more likely among those who had covid. And for those people there was a biological indicator linking it to covid.

And, uhrm, no shit the symptoms aren't "isolated to covid". Shortness of breath? Fatigue? Pain in the throat?! If you only accept that a specific illness caused a symptom if that symptom is exclusive to that disease, you couldn't ever diagnose anything!



Yep, that's ridiculous. You believe that equals systematic oppression? I've seen similar instances of cops treating pedestrians badly, or wrongly telling people they can't film... does this mean there's systematic persecution of pedestrians and people with cameras in the US?

More likely in what manner, percentage-based or just higher number? Even during the 1st wave, covid was the dominant viral infection, it just didn't squeeze out everything else yet. You know, that study isn't powered in any way to give you that answer anyways, right? We have no clue of the frequency it happens in covid or the flu or anything else.

I didn't mean the actual symptom itself wasn't isolated to covid (well duh, just like loss of smell/taste are specific to covid vs flu/cold). I mean the length the symptoms like that are persistent isn't isolated to covid, the long part of it.

What are you talking about? Why would I make that argument? I just pointed out bullshit stuff the left did backed by 0 science. None of that happened in Florida for example. Why can't you just admit something your side did was bad when it was bad?

I'm not going to argue stances that you're hallucinating for me and engage with arguments that are wildly off topic based on those hallucinated arguments
Neat. Sugar isn't a poison and if 88% of the United States is metabolically unhealthy then it's very important they get vaccinated
"The next logical point" that I have to defend the fake and false idea that the medical community has thought fat was a poison for 50 years? You and logic aren't on speaking terms
Sounds like they should get fully vaccinated then
You actually want me to believe that somebody getting a covid booster is more vulnerable to covid than somebody who didn't?

Fucking hell
"People who haven't gotten disease before are more likely to get sick from same disease later"

Wow. Shocking. Definitely a Pro-Disease argument. I should go get the flu now just so I don't get the flu later.

Your stance is illogical. We can't discuss lab leak because some people might dislike Chinese because of it? Wouldn't the virus coming from a wet market (that is not a thing in our culture) cause just as much or more Chinese hate? Can we not have Chinese food here because some might not like it and become prejudice against the Chinese? You can only control stuff that is racist vs stuff that may lead to racism.

Everything in the right dose is poison, water can be poison. You squarely just want to disagree with me and nothing else. Just being metabolically unhealthy isn't a risk factor for covid. Also, anyone that had covid before vaccines were available doesn't need the vaccine, mandates made no sense.

The misguided war on fat may be making us sicker.

Thirty years ago, America declared war against fat. The inaugural edition of Dietary Guidelines for Americans, published in 1980 and subsequently...

slate.com

Why should they get vaccinated if the vaccine is riskier than getting covid? Also parents across the board have been surprisingly smart with not getting their kids vaccinated. Not even 10% of kids under 5 have gotten one dose of the vaccine. And there's no reason they should be getting it.

The clinical outcomes for those (in many groups) who had just gotten vaccinated vs vaccinated + booster show literally no benefit in getting a booster.

But for a couple of years, there was little opportunity for children born during the pandemic or the people around them to catch RSV – or other viruses, for that matter. Their immunity waned or never formed at all. So when those little ones and their parents started to interact with others, they were more likely to get sick.

It's good for your immune system to be working and fighting off things. That's the same thing for allergies too. It was recommended by OFFICIAL and PROFESSIONAL health organizations to not expose kids to peanuts early on and now we have more people with peanut allergies than ever before. It's good to be exposed to things (more often than not).

!00% that the n95 masks are best, but the double cloth masks that a lot of people were using helped a lot also. Not so much on an individual level, like one person using it and no one else, but in a group sense they worked well since they limited how far droplets would travel.

I need to see actual real world data to believe that.

 

[Buyetyen]

I'm aware of that... I only put that in parenthesis because I figured someone would point out airborne is still droplet based because all you guys do is nitpick about small shit that doesn't matter.

Yeah, when you're wrong people correct you. What a concept.

 

[Worgen]

I need to see actual real world data to believe that.

See data that n95 masks protect you more then cloth ones or that cloth masks offer some protections?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Your stance is illogical. We can't discuss lab leak because some people might dislike Chinese because of it? Wouldn't the virus coming from a wet market (that is not a thing in our culture) cause just as much or more Chinese hate? Can we not have Chinese food here because some might not like it and become prejudice against the Chinese? You can only control stuff that is racist vs stuff that may lead to racism.

Not my argument and stop trying to extrapolate

Everything in the right dose is poison, water can be poison. You squarely just want to disagree with me and nothing else. Just being metabolically unhealthy isn't a risk factor for covid. Also, anyone that had covid before vaccines were available doesn't need the vaccine, mandates made no sense.

Water's not a poison, mandates make sense when people don't know if they've had covid. Paul Offit made this exact argument

The misguided war on fat may be making us sicker.

Thirty years ago, America declared war against fat. The inaugural edition of Dietary Guidelines for Americans, published in 1980 and subsequently...

slate.com

Neat. Still not engaging with an argument you've halucinated

Why should they get vaccinated if the vaccine is riskier than getting covid?

Only riskier if you didn't get fully vaccinated, probably due to more risk taking behavior

The clinical outcomes for those (in many groups) who had just gotten vaccinated vs vaccinated + booster show literally no benefit in getting a booster.

False, Paul Offit says otherwise. It's just not (necessarily) a long term boost

But for a couple of years, there was little opportunity for children born during the pandemic or the people around them to catch RSV – or other viruses, for that matter. Their immunity waned or never formed at all. So when those little ones and their parents started to interact with others, they were more likely to get sick.

Yeah, like I said, they didn't get sick before so they're getting sick now. That's not a pro-"get sick early" argument, that's just how disease works.

It's good for your immune system to be working and fighting off things. That's the same thing for allergies too. It was recommended by OFFICIAL and PROFESSIONAL health organizations to not expose kids to peanuts early on and now we have more people with peanut allergies than ever before. It's good to be exposed to things (more often than not).

There's a *lot* of interlocking factors going on with the rise in allergies and boiling it down to "it's because kids aren't eating peanuts and getting worms" is fantastically stupid.

 

[Kwak]

The clinical outcomes for those (in many groups) who had just gotten vaccinated vs vaccinated + booster show literally no benefit in getting a booster.

https://investors.biontech.de/news-releases/news-release-details/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-updated-clinical-data-omicron

• Bivalent booster elicited approximately 4-fold higher neutralizing antibody titers against Omicron BA.4/BA.5 sublineages compared to the original COVID-19 vaccine in individuals older than 55 years of age
• One-month after a 30-µg booster dose of the bivalent vaccine, Omicron BA.4/BA.5-neutralizing antibody titers increased 13.2-fold from pre-booster levels in adults older than 55 years of age and 9.5-fold in adults 18 to 55 years of age, compared to a 2.9-fold increase in adults older than 55 years or age who received the original booster vaccine
• Safety and tolerability profile of bivalent booster remains favorable and similar to the original COVID-19 vaccine

 

[Thaluikhain]

And the scary thing for someone like me is, these are sources we are supposed to be able to trust but can no longer.

Why not? Or rather, assuming that you can't trust, say, the CDC, you don't have to. Every developed country has some government organisation for roughly the same purpose that is independent of the CDC. If the medical establishments of Japan and Canada and New Zealand and South Korea are in agreement with the US CDC, then the CDC is probably correct.

There is a very large problem with natural immunity though. Big Pharma doesn't make money off of it.

Oh but it does. The majority of people hospitalised with COVID weren't vaccinated. Instead of a few vaccines, they need to be pumped full of drugs, hooked up to expensive machines and watched over by people who (should) have expensive PPE. That's where the money is.

I won't say that concerns about the vaccine are just the usual fearmongering, because there are very real issues, they've just mostly gone unaddressed. The elites didn't force the vaccine on everyone else, they made sure they go it first and then took their time making sure everyone else got it. People died because of this.

Right there is a major scandal, a real one. You don't have to imagine some weird conspiracy, it's right there out in the open, we all saw it.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Yeah, when you're wrong people correct you. What a concept.

You still posted to complain when I was right...

See data that n95 masks protect you more then cloth ones or that cloth masks offer some protections?

That cloth masks actually do anything of significance. Even if they say lower transmission by 5% all that is doing is delaying an inevitable infection for a bit.

Not my argument and stop trying to extrapolate
Water's not a poison, mandates make sense when people don't know if they've had covid. Paul Offit made this exact argument
Neat. Still not engaging with an argument you've halucinated
Only riskier if you didn't get fully vaccinated, probably due to more risk taking behavior
False, Paul Offit says otherwise. It's just not (necessarily) a long term boost
Yeah, like I said, they didn't get sick before so they're getting sick now. That's not a pro-"get sick early" argument, that's just how disease works.
There's a *lot* of interlocking factors going on with the rise in allergies and boiling it down to "it's because kids aren't eating peanuts and getting worms" is fantastically stupid.

That is literally your argument. You said lab leak shouldn't be discussed because it lead to racism.

Drinking too much water can kill you. Ingesting too much sugar daily is basically a slow acting poison. Paul Offit mainly said it was just easier bureaucratically, scientifically not at all. Also, we literally did that for measles, those that had it didn't get the vaccine, Paul Offit never got the measles vaccine for example. Lastly the vaccine was never shown to provide community protection and was quickly shown via Israel that it very much didn't, thus there was never a reason to mandate it.

You made the argument, not me. You never stick to any principles or logic and fluctuate based on the topic at hand. Why would you trust official recommendations blindly when they are wrong so often?

There's groups where getting covid is less risky than the getting vaccinated. Why are you forcing those people to have worse medical outcomes?

True, I said CLINICAL OUTCOMES, and that is literally Paul's own argument.
"You’re not gonna be able to protect against mild disease for this kind of virus for any length of time, so don’t."

Large gaps between exposures is not good.

They found delaying exposure to stuff like peanuts is bad and now the new guidelines are to expose kids to things earlier.

Why peanut reactions have become 'almost epidemic'—and what to do about food allergies

Among children, allergies to peanuts and other types of food continues to climb, but experts say there is some progress in controlling or preventing life-threatening reactions.

www.cnbc.com

https://investors.biontech.de/news-releases/news-release-details/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-updated-clinical-data-omicron

• Bivalent booster elicited approximately 4-fold higher neutralizing antibody titers against Omicron BA.4/BA.5 sublineages compared to the original COVID-19 vaccine in individuals older than 55 years of age
• One-month after a 30-µg booster dose of the bivalent vaccine, Omicron BA.4/BA.5-neutralizing antibody titers increased 13.2-fold from pre-booster levels in adults older than 55 years of age and 9.5-fold in adults 18 to 55 years of age, compared to a 2.9-fold increase in adults older than 55 years or age who received the original booster vaccine
• Safety and tolerability profile of bivalent booster remains favorable and similar to the original COVID-19 vaccine

How do increases in anti-body titers alter clinical outcomes in any way? The Moderna vaccine produces more antibodies than the Pfizer vaccine and clinical outcomes when those people do get covid are exactly the same. Antibody titers don't really matter much, I've been saying this for years, Paul Offit's been saying this forever as well, why do you care about antibody levels?

 

[Silvanus]

More likely in what manner, percentage-based or just higher number? Even during the 1st wave, covid was the dominant viral infection, it just didn't squeeze out everything else yet. You know, that study isn't powered in any way to give you that answer anyways, right? We have no clue of the frequency it happens in covid or the flu or anything else.

Comparing rates of symptoms and cross referencing it with rates of covid and non-covid infections is literally the only way research could be done on this.

You can complain about the limits of the methodology all you like, but it's the only one available. And I'll trust the conclusions of peer-reviewed researchers rather than your armchair gripes about limitations.

I didn't mean the actual symptom itself wasn't isolated to covid (well duh, just like loss of smell/taste are specific to covid vs flu/cold). I mean the length the symptoms like that are persistent isn't isolated to covid, the long part of it.

Obviously. Why would it be? Other infections can also cause long-lasting symptoms over the same timescale.

What are you talking about? Why would I make that argument? I just pointed out bullshit stuff the left did backed by 0 science. None of that happened in Florida for example. Why can't you just admit something your side did was bad when it was bad?

"Why would I make that argument"? In case you missed the context, another poster explicitly compared wearing masks to wearing the star of David in 1930s Germany.

That's what I was responding to. And then you interjected.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

That is literally your argument. You said lab leak shouldn't be discussed because it lead to racism.

I said that if the origins didn't really matter, then it's in our best interests to not let racists use it to be xenophobic

Drinking too much water can kill you. Ingesting too much sugar daily is basically a slow acting poison.

No, it's not, and classifying that way is not helpful

Paul Offit mainly said it was just easier bureaucratically, scientifically not at all. Also, we literally did that for measles, those that had it didn't get the vaccine, Paul Offit never got the measles vaccine for example.

It is much easier for a layperson to tell if they have measles than covid. Hell, you thought you had mild covid a couple times last week because, what, you woke up a bit stuffed up a few times?

Lastly the vaccine was never shown to provide community protection and was quickly shown via Israel that it very much didn't, thus there was never a reason to mandate it.

Yeah, why would a country want to mandate it's citizens protect itself from severe disease and death. That's crazy.

You made the argument, not me. You never stick to any principles or logic and fluctuate based on the topic at hand. Why would you trust official recommendations blindly when they are wrong so often?

I have specifically never made an argument about fat and will continue to not make an argument about fat

There's groups where getting covid is less risky than the getting vaccinated. Why are you forcing those people to have worse medical outcomes?

Bullshit, and not what you said originally.

True, I said CLINICAL OUTCOMES, and that is literally Paul's own argument.
"You’re not gonna be able to protect against mild disease for this kind of virus for any length of time, so don’t."

If i find the source of that quote and you're taking it out of context, you owe me $20

Large gaps between exposures is not good.

Sure thing, Papa Nurgle

They found delaying exposure to stuff like peanuts is bad and now the new guidelines are to expose kids to things earlier.

Why peanut reactions have become 'almost epidemic'—and what to do about food allergies

Among children, allergies to peanuts and other types of food continues to climb, but experts say there is some progress in controlling or preventing life-threatening reactions.

www.cnbc.com

Neat. They also don't know why there's an uptick to begin with
"The exploding segment of the population suffering from certain food ailments is skyrocketing, and experts are stumped on the reasons why."

 

[Worgen]

That cloth masks actually do anything of significance. Even if they say lower transmission by 5% all that is doing is delaying an inevitable infection for a bit.

Effectiveness of Face Mask or Respirator Use in Indoor ...

This report describes face mask or respirator effectiveness in helping protect against COVID-19 infection.

www.cdc.gov

This was published in February of 2022, but it is possible that cloth masks might not help as much against the current variant.

 

[Kwak]

How do increases in anti-body titers alter clinical outcomes in any way? The Moderna vaccine produces more antibodies than the Pfizer vaccine and clinical outcomes when those people do get covid are exactly the same. Antibody titers don't really matter much, I've been saying this for years, Paul Offit's been saying this forever as well, why do you care about antibody levels?

Low SARS-CoV-2 antibody titers may be associated with poor clinical outcomes for patients with severe COVID-19 - Scientific Reports

Recently, immune response to coronavirus disease (COVID-19) has attracted attention where an association between higher antibody titer and worsening disease severity has been reported. However, our experiences with severe COVID-19 patients with low antibody titers led to hypothesizing that...

www.nature.com

Low antispike antibody levels correlate with poor outcomes in COVID-19 breakthrough hospitalizations - PubMed

Hospitalized breakthrough cases were more likely to have underlying risk factors than unvaccinated patients. Low-spike antibody titers may serve as an indicator for poor prognosis in breakthrough cases admitted to the hospital.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

What is an Antibody Titer?

An antibody titer is a type of blood test that determines the presence and level (titer) of antibodies in the blood.

www.news-medical.net

"Determining the titer for neutralizing antibodies, which are specialized antibodies that bind pathogens and prevent them from spreading infection, is another important aspect to ensure protection against a particular disease.

Neutralizing antibody titers in the blood closely correlate with the protection provided by an effective vaccination."

 

[Trunkage]

Low SARS-CoV-2 antibody titers may be associated with poor clinical outcomes for patients with severe COVID-19 - Scientific Reports

Recently, immune response to coronavirus disease (COVID-19) has attracted attention where an association between higher antibody titer and worsening disease severity has been reported. However, our experiences with severe COVID-19 patients with low antibody titers led to hypothesizing that...

www.nature.com

Low antispike antibody levels correlate with poor outcomes in COVID-19 breakthrough hospitalizations - PubMed

Hospitalized breakthrough cases were more likely to have underlying risk factors than unvaccinated patients. Low-spike antibody titers may serve as an indicator for poor prognosis in breakthrough cases admitted to the hospital.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

What is an Antibody Titer?

An antibody titer is a type of blood test that determines the presence and level (titer) of antibodies in the blood.

www.news-medical.net

"Determining the titer for neutralizing antibodies, which are specialized antibodies that bind pathogens and prevent them from spreading infection, is another important aspect to ensure protection against a particular disease.

Neutralizing antibody titers in the blood closely correlate with the protection provided by an effective vaccination."

I wish some people would stop freaking out as soon as the learn a new word

 

[Trunkage]

I've got a question for everyone

Why is trust so important to people?

Does TRUSTING the person/ institution help you determine your level of understanding of the research?