Our generation's racism

[Helmholtz Watson]

Our generation still manages to be regular racist and regular sexist.

Agreed, my desi friends are very prejudice to one another and they are divided between those that are Muslim and those that are Hindu.

 

[StBishop]

Ugh, hating religions is vulgar.

I can understand the intellectual distaste for organised religion, it is reasonable. But hating a person for what they believe is simply boorish.

Is it wrong for gay people to hate christians?

Yes.
It's not wrong for them to hate someone who hates them, but that's not true of all Christians.

See we're getting back to prejudice again.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

[...] minorities like homosexuals and blacks, [...]

Did you just say "blacks"? Really? Not "black people" or something slightly less inflammatory? On a thread discussing being racist?

Oh shit, sorry, I forgot. "Black people", I mean. Ironically, I'm black myself.

But would any of you have been offended if I said "whites"?

Ignoring the fact that "whites" wasn't ever a derogatory term. Yeah.
Not offended, just shocked that you'd use an out dated term.

EDIT: I realise that I'm overly touchy about racism, I grew up in the country and people there were not only much, much more racist than city folk, but they genuinely believed that there was no such thing as racism any more.

Right, fair enough. It was honestly a slip-up on my part.

 

[StBishop]

[...] minorities like homosexuals and blacks, [...]

Did you just say "blacks"? Really? Not "black people" or something slightly less inflammatory? On a thread discussing being racist?

Oh shit, sorry, I forgot. "Black people", I mean. Ironically, I'm black myself.

But would any of you have been offended if I said "whites"?

Ignoring the fact that "whites" wasn't ever a derogatory term. Yeah.
Not offended, just shocked that you'd use an out dated term.

EDIT: I realise that I'm overly touchy about racism, I grew up in the country and people there were not only much, much more racist than city folk, but they genuinely believed that there was no such thing as racism any more.

The thing about racism is that it's secondary to classism. If you're rich, it dont matter if you're black gay and islamic, America will bow to you. If you're a good ol' flag wavin' red blooded White American that hates niggers and spics and chinks, workin a blue collar job for peanuts, well then america shits on you anyway. Just not as much as blacks, mexicans, and asians working those same jobs

EDIT: How is "Blacks" racist? I could understand if someone said "Typical blacks" or something along those lines, but to my knowledge that isnt the case.

Well, firstly, the Escapist forums aren't a solely American community.

I suppose what you're trying to say is that Classism is the problem our generation need to work on?

I think that's a fair call, I know I've made assumptions about people based on their socio-economic back ground (not only favourable of rich and negative of poor people, I've made positive and negative assumptions about people who're rich and poor).

On the edit; I dunno what it's like where you're from but if someone says "blacks" to me they mean "niggers/coons/racial epithet". Where I'm from I've never heard it said in anything but a negative tone with negative connotations and intent.
I've never encountered a person who said "blacks" and only meant "people who're black".

 

[him over there]

so many people now a days are racist against racists... it's sad

Can't tell if sarcasm or understated opinion about fighting hate with hate...

 

[him over there]

so many people now a days are racist against racists... it's sad

Can't tell if sarcasm or understated opinion about fighting hate with hate...

why can't it be both?

It can, but the sarcasm sort of implies that you don't believe in your own opinion. Anyway I agree, treating people like pariahs based on things they think of others regardless of how terrible it is takes us back to square one.

 

[StBishop]

Ugh, hating religions is vulgar.

I can understand the intellectual distaste for organised religion, it is reasonable. But hating a person for what they believe is simply boorish.

Is it wrong for gay people to hate christians?

Yes.
It's not wrong for them to hate someone who hates them, but that's not true of all Christians.

See we're getting back to prejudice again.

Ok slight change, is it wrong for gays to hate homophobes? Christianity leaves no room for doubt, if you are chrisitan, you believe that gays go to hell. Thats been the case with every christian ive ever discussed. The bible is clear on that issue, and many many christians accept that tenet with fervency

You're meeting a Christian right now who openly supports gay rights, marriage equality and encourages their friends to contact their local government representative to further these causes.

I've personally contacted my MP about passing a Bill which is being considered right now which will give homosexual couples the right and ability to get married.

I don't believe people go to hell for being gay. I think homosexuality is a naturally occurring phenomenon and it's observed in animals other than humans.

So yeah.

Also, "Christian" means (according to Acts) baptised by the Holy Spirit (rather than simply by water as John the Baptist did. This is possible due to Jesus' sacrifice.). So really anyone who believes that Jesus was the son of God and has been baptised is "Christian".

Christian religions vary a great deal and plenty of them are incredibly accepting of homosexuality. The bible contradicts its self often enough and is quoted out of context enough that, with enough work, one can extract any meaning one wishes if they're creative.

I don't mean to get all bible bashy (it's actually really out of character, a dude I've known for 3 years found out I was Christian last week and didn't believe me at first because I tend to keep it to myself unless I think it's relevant) but I don't really appreciate being told what I believe.

 

[him over there]

so many people now a days are racist against racists... it's sad

Can't tell if sarcasm or understated opinion about fighting hate with hate...

why can't it be both?

It can, but the sarcasm sort of implies that you don't believe in your own opinion. Anyway I agree, treating people like pariahs based on things they think of others regardless of how terrible it is takes us back to square one.

What is the alternative? Should minorities everywhere have to prove that theyre not worthless inferior beings simply because a large population of whites seem to have it ingrained in their close minded little brains that they are superior?

Should they dance and sing and do a little jig and wave banners saying "Please don't hate us Racists! Pleaaaaase?"

No, simply being a normal well meaning human being in your everyday life constantly will slowly prove people's own beliefs wrong.

 

[StBishop]

Well, firstly, the Escapist forums aren't a solely American community.

I suppose what you're trying to say is that Classism is the problem our generation need to work on?

I think that's a fair call, I know I've made assumptions about people based on their socio-economic back ground (not only favourable of rich and negative of poor people, I've made positive and negative assumptions about people who're rich and poor).

On the edit; I dunno what it's like where you're from but if someone says "blacks" to me they mean "niggers/coons/racial epithet". Where I'm from I've never heard it said in anything but a negative tone with negative connotations and intent.
I've never encountered a person who said "blacks" and only meant "people who're black".

That would explain it, you are what you know. I've certainly heard it used derisively, but I've also heard it used many times to simply refer to the black community. Context is really important

On the whole I think we have similar views on racism. The people who engage in racist bullying dont know what its like to be on the recieving end, it really hurts, its also scary. These people have 0 empathy. I think its fair to say that people with 0 empathy, who dont even attempt it are scum, unfortunatley America seems over flowing with these people

EDIT: You said somewhere that you grew up in a small rural town where racism was prevalent, very curious, how did you end up escaping the sheep mentality and end up thinking for yourself like so many fail to do?

Yeah, I grew up in a farming town which was settled by Italian immigrants, my parents however were not born there, they're from the UK and I lived in cities until 5 when we moved to a small city (Darwin, it's technically a "capital city" but it's really not, more of a town) and at 10 we moved to rural Queensland. I feel that I grew up in Queensland though as it's where I spent most of my life and where I spent my formative years.

So to that gives a little back ground on my home life, a little more progressive than the average for where I lived.
I was a massive nerd, so the Internet had a little to do with it. I also got teased for being small, skinny, or whatever a little, no more than your average kid but I managed to experience people being mean to me for no reason.

On top of all of that, the people who were least intelligent happened to be the people who were mean to me, and the most bigoted. Wanting to be as far removed from those people I chose to play sports they didn't like and befriend people they didn't like. This led to being friends with the only guys from my town to be brave enough to come out as well as just assuming that any opinion they held (basically all of the shit you get in a small town) was inherently flawed.
I was lucky for racism, it didn't exist much within my age group, some parents were racist though. As was the community at large.

 

[him over there]

as I said... I hate that one group of people for hating that other group of people... they are so stupid.. hating groups of people just isn't right... I hate them sooo much for hating

You want to join my new usergroup about not tolerating intolerant people?

 

[StBishop]

You're meeting a Christian right now who openly supports gay rights, marriage equality and encourages their friends to contact their local government representative to further these causes.

I've personally contacted my MP about passing a Bill which is being considered right now which will give homosexual couples the right and ability to get married.

I don't believe people go to hell for being gay. I think homosexuality is a naturally occurring phenomenon and it's observed in animals other than humans.

So yeah.

Also, "Christian" means (according to Acts) baptised by the Holy Spirit (rather than simply by water as John the Baptist did. This is possible due to Jesus' sacrifice.). So really anyone who believes that Jesus was the son of God and has been baptised is "Christian".

Christian religions vary a great deal and plenty of them are incredibly accepting of homosexuality. The bible contradicts its self often enough and is quoted out of context enough that, with enough work, one can extract any meaning one wishes if they're creative.

I don't mean to get all bible bashy (it's actually really out of character, a dude I've known for 3 years found out I was Christian last week and didn't believe me at first because I tend to keep it to myself unless I think it's relevant) but I don't really appreciate being told what I believe.

I am confusing "Christian" with "Catholic", no doubt there are varying degrees of orthodoxy, obviously you are one of the more open minded Christians. I think the term christianity has been somewhat bastardized by the catholic church and other christian extremists, especially with how loving and accepting jesus was described in the bible. The perception I have of religion is that it preaches love while acting in hateful, horrible ways. If only the chruches were run by people with your own mentality, i think there would be a lot less blood shed and hate brewing.

Some things about catholicism that baffle me: The pope is basically god to these people. I mean when John paul would tour the world, Millions would show up, a sea of human beings as far as the eye could see, isnt there something in the bible about false idols? The saying "people wouldn't care as much if god himself showed up" rings true.

Also i find it hilarious when bankers claim jesus as one of their own. What a crock, and people buy into it, unreal. The guy that banished the money changers from the temple and cursed them is on their side? HHHH

The idea of religion is perfect on paper, its all about love, community, togetherness, on paper. But then a bunch of rich bastards come along and use it to enslave people's minds and manipulate them to their own ends. Its not the religion I hate, its the ease with which it can be corrupted that I hate.

I can see where that would be a point of confusion.

I didn't enjoy my time at a Catholic school and I don't think particularly highly of the Catholic church, however it's getting better.

The current Pope has actually condemned homophobia and said that God's cool with homosexuality.

I see what you mean about Christianity being soiled by extremists. Much like what's happened to Islam over the last decade (although in my experience it's dying down recently). Obviously it's not the same, but it's similar.

I mean look at the Westborough Baptists and the KKK, they're technically Christian.

The Anglican Church is actually run by some pretty awesome people, as is the Lutheran Church.

Also, the Mormons I've had the fortune to meet are all awesome dudes. (Never met a female Mormon).

There are bankers claiming Jesus is one of them??? Where?

If you've ever experienced a small parish it's actually as nice as it sounds on paper. I mean, sure it's not for everyone, there's sort of a requirement that you believe in God, Jesus and think the Bible is non-fiction; but if that description fit and someone was simply against organised churches I'd recommend that they look for a small parish, the people are all lovely and usually there's a bunch of nice old grannies and young families wearing pastel colours.

Provided a person tempers what their pastor/preist tells them with their own judgement it doesn't tend to lead to horrible things.

 

[StBishop]

Saying it is one thing, acting on it is another. I just found this: http://patriotupdate.com/19679/pope-denounces-gay-lobby-in-speech-to-us-bishops

so a bit contradictory to say the least. I suppose tolerance is different than acceptance, but when he does stuff like this it doesnt seem very tolerant to me.

I haven t been able to find the one article I was thinking about, I think it was Jamie Dimon of citigroup that wrote to the new york times how Jesus loved the rich and everything he said was only meant as a metaphor, it was laughable, I wish I could find it. However there are many many instances of Mega Church pastors like Pat robertson defending wall street and the big banks, case in point:

Wow, the US is messed up hey. I tend to avoid US media when possible; not the entertainment media, but the tabloid press and other mainstream media. So I don't even really follow what's going on in the clip.

I mean what is the 700 club? What are The Young Turks? Is this guy like a Christian version of Dr. Phil.


Also: "It's atavistic."

Atavistic:
at·a·vis·tic/ˌatəˈvistik/
Adjective:
Relating to or characterized by reversion to something ancient or ancestral: "atavistic fears and instincts".

Occupy wall street is characterised by hearkening to the "good ol' days" when this guy was young? Perhaps further?

No.

Sorry I just had to have a quick whinge at that dude's misuse of a word I'm rather fond of.

 

[StBishop]

Ugh, hating religions is vulgar.

I can understand the intellectual distaste for organised religion, it is reasonable. But hating a person for what they believe is simply boorish.

Hating religions =/= hating the person.

Personally I believe it's completely reasonable for anyone to hate a belief system that preaches a primitive, barbaric, hate filled, anti-intellectual doctrine. (aka the Abrahamic religions)

Did you just say "blacks"? Really? Not "black people" or something slightly less inflammatory? On a thread discussing being racist?

Ok then. Maybe that's my hang up.

Christ on a stick could you be any more PC?

The term "blacks" is not racist.

Hey, welcome to the Escapist. (I realise you signed up a long time ago, but it's your first post and all.)

Don't go in the basement.

Back on topic; I sort of covered both of those, but I'll go over them again.

First, I don't appreciate people who hate one religion but not a similar one which is more familiar. For example, hating Islam, but being fine with other religions with similar tenets; say for example, Christianity.
They're pretty much apples and pears. The difference is in the details and I don't like that.

However, as I stated in previous posts, if someone is intellectually and morally opposed all religions, that's not a problem for me. My issue is more people who will hate all Christians because of the actions of the Westborough Baptist Church or similar.

I do realise that there's always exceptions and due to the loose definition of religion the KKK are technically included in this, I'm not saying you can't be opposed to poor or evil practices. My problem is, as I've said, more with either ignorant, or hateful opposition of specific religions.

And with the "blacks" thing, it basically boiled down to me being a little too touchy because of my experience with the way people use that term (literally only used with negative connotations up until this conversation) and the other poster not even thinking about it because they don't find it inherently offensive.

 

[StBishop]

Youngturks is an entirely independent news organization, which in my opinion makes it one of the only legitimate news organizations out there. It baffles me that people can look at fox news owned by megacorp in The devil incarnate Rupert murdoch and say "yeah! I trust that!" sadly millions do.

Pat robertson is a swindler of epic proportion, he fools gullibles (of which there are plenty here in the us) to give him money for cover "humanitarian" purposes, and then just uses it for his own gain. Like cenk says in the vid, he conned people into funding his helicoptors for aid in haiti, then turned around and started using them in his diamond mining operations in africa. Just one example of this.

Do they have mega chruches in england? Think of pat as a televangelist

Yeah Murdoch owns a channel over here and it has the worst fearmongering shows in the country on it. It also happens to be the channel which airs Top Gear unfortunately.

I'm in Australia by the way. British parents, and therefore a British Citizen, but no I live in Australia.

We don't have mega churches here to my knowledge and I don't know of any televangelists but I've seen youtube clips and such.

Our TV is quite toned down compared to the US and Japan (as is Indonesia and the UK's). I've not seen much TV from anywhere else to compare to.

 

[GistoftheFist]

I'm offensive and I find this thread GistoftheFist.

 

[Ickorus]

so many people now a days are racist against racists... it's sad

Can't tell if sarcasm or understated opinion about fighting hate with hate...

why can't it be both?

It can, but the sarcasm sort of implies that you don't believe in your own opinion. Anyway I agree, treating people like pariahs based on things they think of others regardless of how terrible it is takes us back to square one.

What is the alternative? Should minorities everywhere have to prove that theyre not worthless inferior beings simply because a large population of whites seem to have it ingrained in their close minded little brains that they are superior?

Should they dance and sing and do a little jig and wave banners saying "Please don't hate us Racists! Pleaaaaase?"

No, simply being a normal well meaning human being in your everyday life constantly will slowly prove people's own beliefs wrong.

Tell that to Martin LK and Malcolm X. If it werent for the very serious threat of a full scale insurrection of minorities, the gov't would have done jack squat and we would still be going to separate schools, drinking form separate fountains, and shitting in separate bowls

Martin Luther King & Malcolm X got us past the hardest part, they forced people to listen and forced a change in perception. We have the easy job now of just reinforcing the fact that skin colour is meaningless which is done in the way 'him over there' stated, be yourself and prove the idiotic notion that being a certain skin tone makes you superior is stupid.

I disagree with the entire don't hate on racists bit though, they need to be shunned in order to continue reinforcing that there is no place for racism (Or sexism, or any other isms) in this modern society.

Liquidacid23 has the right of it though, don't be racist against someone because they're racist. (Call them a fucking idiot instead)

 

[TheVioletBandit]

Ugh, hating religions is vulgar.

I can understand the intellectual distaste for organised religion, it is reasonable. But hating a person for what they believe is simply boorish.

Well said, I applaud this statement. I see the anti-theists as nothing more than another hate group, and simply repugnant.

 

[Kanova]

Acting as though if you are from this generation everyone should be okay with everything. But it isn't like that. For example I feel very uncomfortable around gays and people who get their dick cut off and take hormones. And if there is one there is a lot more. But everyone on the Escapist are moral elitist bitches so I am probably the only one here with such a viewpoint. PUNISHMENT INC

 

[StBishop]

Maybe stop hating is more the vibe that was intended.

I personally think Islam is great, but you know, what ever.

Because a religion that spreads bigotry, homophobia, supported pedophelia, has little to no womens rights, racism and violence is something that people will stop hating/disliking? Not really. Not unless there are some huge fundamental changes within Islam and with the muslims themselves. Maybe they'll get out of the dark ages in the future who knows.

The religion does no such thing.

I think it's a little rich to assume that all Muslims are the same, and are all in the dark ages while complaining about bigotry.

I know a number of Muslims personally and I find them to be caring, respectful, regular people. Islam is not the problem here, extremism is.

Try getting a hold of a Qur'an translation some time. It's not full of hatred. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

[StBishop]

Hey, welcome to the Escapist. (I realise you signed up a long time ago, but it's your first post and all.)

Don't go in the basement.

Thank you.

No problem

Back on topic; I sort of covered both of those, but I'll go over them again.

First, I don't appreciate people who hate one religion but not a similar one which is more familiar. For example, hating Islam, but being fine with other religions with similar tenets; say for example, Christianity.
They're pretty much apples and pears. The difference is in the details and I don't like that.

Oh I see.

So say someone hated both Islam and Christianity based on the tenets perpetuated in both their holy texts, you'd have no problem with that. But if they hate one (e.g Islam) but support the other you'd dislike that.

Yes?

Yes, but that's a little watered down, I used those as examples. If someone were against any religion that they considered to be of negative impact (not the faith in said religion, the organisation or structure of the religion) then I can respect that.
I might disagree or argue, but I can respect it.

However, as I stated in previous posts, if someone is intellectually and morally opposed all religions, that's not a problem for me. My issue is more people who will hate all Christians because of the actions of the Westborough Baptist Church or similar.

Well that's completely reasonable.

Thank you, I thought so.

And with the "blacks" thing, it basically boiled down to me being a little too touchy because of my experience with the way people use that term (literally only used with negative connotations up until this conversation) and the other poster not even thinking about it because they don't find it inherently offensive.

I'm going to take a stab and say it's because it's not offensive. My evidence being the guy who was ignorant of it being 'offensive' was black.

As I said, I was being a delicate snow flake.