Over 1,800 Gaming Professionals Condemn Hate Speech in Open Letter

[Erttheking]

Yeah, that's not happening. I'm not crawling through 400 pages of barely contained rage, uncertain accusations and out of control emotions. It'd be like walking into the middle of a riot and trying to get an unbiased view on what was going on.

Of course not that would destroy your world view once you discover that it is generally (beyond first 20 pages) a place of civil discussion, little rage and thoughtful concerns.

Question. Did you think that insulting me would make me more likely to read the thread? Because it didn't.

 

[Stewie Plisken]

But what of those dismissing female gamers for only playing iPhone games and the such? Did you see the thread I am referring to? Surely this behaviour is an issue and this is the one I am addressing. I agree the term gamer can be used by anyone and should include anyone that wishes to join our community. But that doesn't change the fact that a large enough group of people aren't in agreement with us on the issue.

No, I didn't see that thread, but I've seen similar, I know the issue you're referring to and I'm not really in disagreement with you. Regardless of dissent from people who disagree with the opinion that mobile games aren't real games, well, they're real games. There is a valid discussion there, if only to avoid gaming becoming homogenous; meaning the distinction is necessary to make sure no game developers pull a Windows 8 on us.

But I don't consider it an issue within the community, despite the voices that disagree, exactly because of how broad the term is. Ignore these people; they won't go away, but they have literally no power. Can't stop progress. This is still a far cry from dismissing the term and the people that it defined or at least described for all those years.

Yeah, that's not happening. I'm not crawling through 400 pages of barely contained rage, uncertain accusations and out of control emotions. It'd be like walking into the middle of a riot and trying to get an unbiased view on what was going on.

Of course not that would destroy your world view once you discover that it is generally (beyond first 20 pages) a place of civil discussion, little rage and thoughtful concerns.

Question. Did you think that insulting me would make me more likely to read the thread? Because it didn't.

In all fairness, your devaluation of a discussion that has been going on for two weeks warranted a heated response. You can't ask for civil discourse when you're not willing to provide it yourself.

 

[castlewise]

We believe that everyone, no matter what gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, or religion has the right to play games, criticize games and make games without getting harassed or threatened. It is the diversity of our community that allows games to flourish.

We agree. Hence the term "gamer", which is all-inclusive.

Just to pull you up there - the term gamer isn't inclusive or exclusive. No more than, say, police officer or student. There was a time when women couldn't be police officers and African American's couldn't attend schools (I can provide sources if you would like them). So the terms police officer and student weren't inclusive and the terms themselves didn't mean "no blacks" or "no women" but none the less, people were excluded. See, it's not the title that is inclusive or exclusive, it's the community and the culture.

"Person" isn't all-inclusive today depending on which individual or group of people you wish to have define it. What's your point? Because it seems like you're being flippant for the sake of being flippant.

Could you show me which group you have seen saying person is not an inclusive term?

Well, if we're being entirely pedantic, the very existence of the term "Person of Color" (though as near as I can tell, it's fallen out of favour in the last few years) would suggest the term "Person" only applies to Caucasians.

But more on topic, I have to agree with the sentiment that this petition seems to be missing an important point, which is that the toxicity isn't exclusively found in those who play games, as we've seen with the behaviour of various game developers and journalists with regard to this entire debacle.

You bring up an example, but then refute it. Care to try again? I would very much like to see sources that show people rejecting the term person or claiming it doesn't include all humans. You made the claim after all.

Woah there, I made no such claim, and I'd appreciate you not accuse me of as much.

I merely pointed out that by definition, the existence of the term "Person of color" necessarily implies that the one using it excludes non-whites from the term "person".

Captcha: Trust me.

Well, ideally you'd do your own research and reach your own conclusions, but I try to be pretty trustworthy, so thank you, Captcha.

You claimed, and I will quote you again:

"Person" isn't all-inclusive today depending on which individual or group of people you wish to have define it.

So could you please show me an example you have seen that demonstrates a group of people claiming the word person is not inclusive. If you have come to that conclusion (and you have, as I just quoted you saying it again) then you must have seen or head it. Please share.

I have one. Its super depressing! During the Soviet era the USSR would define groups of people they didn't like as "non-persons", disqualifying them from access to things like food (because of communism). http://www.holodomorct.org/history.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_Holodomor

 

[dragoongfa]

Yeah, that's not happening. I'm not crawling through 400 pages of barely contained rage, uncertain accusations and out of control emotions. It'd be like walking into the middle of a riot and trying to get an unbiased view on what was going on.

Of course not that would destroy your world view once you discover that it is generally (beyond first 20 pages) a place of civil discussion, little rage and thoughtful concerns.

Thoughtful concerns, like how DARPA is behind some sort of wide-reaching feminist megaplot.

That was a sarcastic joke and pulling the leg of the 'conspiracy theorist' tag gamers often got.

The Silverstring angle and the UGF though?

Now that's a real scandal and is the ground for fraud and racketeering charges to be brought forward.

 

[Stewie Plisken]

But what of those dismissing female gamers for only playing iPhone games and the such? Did you see the thread I am referring to? Surely this behaviour is an issue and this is the one I am addressing. I agree the term gamer can be used by anyone and should include anyone that wishes to join our community. But that doesn't change the fact that a large enough group of people aren't in agreement with us on the issue.

No, I didn't see that thread, but I've seen similar, I know the issue you're referring to and I'm not really in disagreement with you. Regardless of dissent from people who disagree with the opinion that mobile games aren't real games, well, they're real games. There is a valid discussion there, if only to avoid gaming becoming homogenous; meaning the distinction is necessary to make sure no game developers pull a Windows 8 on us.

But I don't consider it an issue within the community, despite the voices that disagree, exactly because of how broad the term is. Ignore these people; they won't go away, but they have literally no power. Can't stop progress. This is still a far cry from dismissing the term and the people that it defined or at least described for all those years.

I can see what you're saying; I too enjoy there being a distinction between something like Wii Sport and Civilization. We agree that the issue is an undesirable group shunning people that enjoy the former and not the latter, but I wouldn't say we are best served by ignoring them. I think open, frank, honest discussion is the only way to move forward. If I'm not convincing you of that, that's fine. We can handle the issue our separate ways. Hopefully one of us brings about some goodness. I think this will be an interesting topic to come back to in, say, a year, to compare and look over how far we've come.

Fair enough, but the problem I find with the course of a discussion is that at least one side will be underrepresented, as people who play on mobile usually don't visit forums or sites like this one.

Having said that, the distinction between casual and hardocre (or even fake and real) has always been incomplete. As far as I'm concerned, a casual gamer is one that doesn't go to lengths to satisfy their gaming needs. A gamer that buys a sports game or Call of Duty once a year and after they leave college they will most likely not game until they have kids (and if then) is just as much of a casual gamer as the one that plays Flappy Bird. That's the only discussion I can see getting somewhere: the distinction shouldn't be done based on the game, but rather the gamer. And needless to say that neither style of gamer is lesser than the other.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Over 2100 gamers have also condemned hate speech!


http://www.change.org/p/the-gaming-industry-please-stop-the-hate

Hurray for them too! Yay, gamers...umm...no?

Ok

 

[Fangface74]

As a gamer, this is my response:

An open letter to the Gaming Industry

We believe that everyone, no matter what gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, or religion has the right to create games, regardless of content without getting harassed or threatened. It is the diversity of your community that allows games to flourish, without being told what a game should or should not contain. If a game is created containing material that is considered offensive, then gamers can vote with their wallet, and not buy it, censorship leaves behind more than it brings.

If you see threats of misogyny/misandry, or comments about shutting Steam, YouTube, Twitch, Twitter, Facebook or reddit down for an hour, please take a minute to report them on the respective sites.

If you see controlling/censoring, harassing speech, take a public stand against it, open a dialogue and make the gaming community a more enjoyable space to be in.

Thank you

 

[Something Amyss]

Come on, concern for the devs is only a prop for behaving terribly.

Nobody's going to be persuaded by this.

I suppose it's nice to see that a bunch of devs aren't complete asshats, though.

 

[Weaver]

While I agree with the letter, it seems to wholly ignore people outside the 'gaming community' harassing people in it and commenting on it. I've seen videos from both feminists and MRAs with no interest in gaming who clearly don't understand what's going on - based on the muddled retelling of the situation in their videos - feel they need to weigh in and get into the fight on twitter anyways.

What of them?

The obvious issue is the dichotomic wording of this statement:

We believe that everyone, no matter what gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, or religion has the right to play games, criticize games and make games without getting harassed or threatened.

It also seems worded that the critics and developers are never harassing people and are always being harassed. And yes, I do believe re-tweeting someone knowing your hundreds of thousands - if not millions - of followers will gang up on them is harassment even if you're not directly doing it.

It's, again, reinforcing this "us vs. them" mentality that is pissing everyone off. The attitude of "We're journalists, developers, critics and e-celebrities. We talk at you, and you don't get to talk back - especially if you disagree!" has finally reached a boiling point.

 

[synobal]

Woo good for them I guess? I don't understand. I can post a letter condemning "doing things that make people sad" but that doesn't actually change anything and don't see how signing it changes anything.

 

[Covarr]

Over 1,800 gaming professionals attach their name to a letter condemning hate speech in search of positive publicity, but don't actually feel very strongly about it either way.

P.S. Thanks

 

[kael013]

K. Thor Jensen - (Videogames Journalist)

Spoiler

Yeah, because this is definitely a subject that calls for mass extermination of people based on a fucking hobby. I'm appalled and utterly disgusted by this - no, those words are insufficient. I don't think there [i/]are[/i] any words that can properly convey my feelings at that. Gamers aren't human? Gamers should be exterminated? Yeah, let's recreate the Holocaust over a DAMN HOBBY!

Also, doesn't he realize that calling for all gamers to be executed would also include the feminists, journalists, and developers(including himself)?

OT: Well, it's the right sentiment (vaguely worded and missing some points, but still the right sentiment), but they aren't calling for enough action, so, ultimately, I feel this will be pointless. If reporting harassment was all it took to ensure the cooler heads could prevail we'd have exterminated all the trolls years ago. Too many topics have become too intertwined and everyone, regardless of side, seems to have been reduced to mud-slinging. We need to do something drastic.