Over 1,800 Gaming Professionals Condemn Hate Speech in Open Letter

[youji itami]

So are game devs going to stop making games filled with swearing, violence against women and violence in general?

Oh of course not there speech is fine but words on a forum are 'destroying' the world.

It's like that guy who posted rap lyrics and got arrested for hate speech since in the words of the court "it's not part of your job so off to jail you go".

 

[Robert Marrs]

I look at this the way I look at abstinence or drug free pledges in school. They don't actually mean anything. Nobody really cares about it. You just have to write down your name unless you want dirty looks from administration, phone calls to home, having your integrity as a person called into question. Or in this case being ousted as a misogynist, and receiving angry reactionary tweets from people who have nothing to do with gaming. Nobody likes harassment but this will do nothing to change the very small minority of people actually doing the harassing. If anything is just gives them motivation and a list of people who they might actually get a rise out of if they decide to do some trolling.

 

[xPixelatedx]

Ugh... i'm glad the devs are paying attention but seriously they need to get the press to call off the social extremists.

Social extremists? The statement says "Diversity is good, please report harassment when you see it, make online communities a more fun place to be." What is so extreme about that?

Exactly, which is why the gaming press should stop drawing lines in the sand and say "Gamers are the enemy, they are bad". That's what's kept this fire burning a week longer then it needed to be.

 

[DaWaffledude]

I doubt anyone's going to disagree with this. The real problem is that different people have drastically different views on what qualifies as "harassment" and "reporting".

 

[Erttheking]

Ugh... i'm glad the devs are paying attention but seriously they need to get the press to call off the social extremists.

Social extremists? The statement says "Diversity is good, please report harassment when you see it, make online communities a more fun place to be." What is so extreme about that?

Exactly, which is why the gaming press should stop drawing lines in the sand and say "Gamers are the enemy, they are bad". That's what's kept this fire burning a week longer then it needed to be.

This has nothing to do with gaming press! These people who signed the letter were devs and executives at gaming companies!

 

[AstaresPanda]

I really dont get all this hate.

So a hobby that was created for and mostly by men for so long has evolved and attracted the interest of the females to the hobby also. Yes i can imagine there is a chunk of assholes who for some reason have an issue with it. But i think that kinda stems from that sudden boom of "fake girl gamers" who as much as some people might not like to believe but they existed and still exist. Its of course going to piss anyone off that someone that is not truly into your hobby comes along and fakes it to gain attention special treatment or some kinda gains. Again does not make it ok to give ppl shit but somtimes you feel the need to call somnone out on their bullshit. Well that all got twisted into YOU JUST HATE WOMEN. no some of us just hate the fakes.

Then this Antia comes along claims she is going to do a crazy indepth thing into the problems sexism in video games.(shit like DoA (gotta understand the Jap market for that thou) And it turned into a half assed over budget work stealing broadstroked hate speech on how all video games are keeping the women down and that basic story telling tropes that have been used non stop since Shakespeare days not as the simplest way to get a story going but a big ol conspiracy to keep the women down and be nothing more then a sexual object. Yes women are sexualized but so are men. Maybe not as much but the guys playing sure as fuck are not as ripped or as butch or manly or what ever as portrayed in video games.

Ofcourse its going to piss people who enjoy to game off.

So you have a community who has been pretty much overlooked as nothing a childish hobby and video games are for kids, with the od few troubled person who would shoot up a school and the media was grasp at anything to make games out to be VIOLENT and poisoning the youth (just as the evil TV and movies have been for years) And not its changed into Gamers are just a bunch of sexist women hating evil evil people.

These feminists need to fuck off as they are no better then what they claim to fight for, its stupid the assholes on both sides just egging this shit on. While the rest of us me and my gf including have been playing for years and aside from a random dumbass comment jokes upon hearing my gf's voice of "get back in the kitchen" "girls cant play games" thats it. It all boils down to if your a n00b or not or if you fucking with your team.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

if they seirously think this is about intolerance they have no damn idea

why dont they condemn the people who compared those asking for better game journalism to ISIS? huh? isnt that harassment? isnt that hate speech?

trying to spin the narrative in their favor at this point is only going to make matters worse for them, if we want game journalism to exist AT ALL, after this, they better stop twisting our words

censorship only made things worse for them, declaring gamers "dead" only made things worse for them, pretending nothing is happening only made things worse for them

be fucking transparent and address the issue already, this isnt about intolerance and you know it

 

[Micalas]

SNIP

But what of those dismissing female gamers for only playing iPhone games and the such?

I'm pretty sure the people dismissing those who only play iPhone games aren't limited to dismissing just the females playing them. That's not a gender discussion. Hell, there are people who dismiss those who only play sports games as non-gamers. Like I said, not a gender issue

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

I really dont get all this hate.

So a hobby that was created for and mostly by men for so long has evolved and attracted the interest of the females to the hobby also. Yes i can imagine there is a chunk of assholes who for some reason have an issue with it. But i think that kinda stems from that sudden boom of "fake girl gamers" who as much as some people might not like to believe but they existed and still exist. Its of course going to piss anyone off that someone that is not truly into your hobby comes along and fakes it to gain attention special treatment or some kinda gains. Again does not make it ok to give ppl shit but somtimes you feel the need to call somnone out on their bullshit. Well that all got twisted into YOU JUST HATE WOMEN. no some of us just hate the fakes.

Then this Antia comes along claims she is going to do a crazy indepth thing into the problems sexism in video games.(shit like DoA (gotta understand the Jap market for that thou) And it turned into a half assed over budget work stealing broadstroked hate speech on how all video games are keeping the women down and that basic story telling tropes that have been used non stop since Shakespeare days not as the simplest way to get a story going but a big ol conspiracy to keep the women down and be nothing more then a sexual object. Yes women are sexualized but so are men. Maybe not as much but the guys playing sure as fuck are not as ripped or as butch or manly or what ever as portrayed in video games.

Ofcourse its going to piss people who enjoy to game off.

So you have a community who has been pretty much overlooked as nothing a childish hobby and video games are for kids, with the od few troubled person who would shoot up a school and the media was grasp at anything to make games out to be VIOLENT and poisoning the youth (just as the evil TV and movies have been for years) And not its changed into Gamers are just a bunch of sexist women hating evil evil people.

These feminists need to fuck off as they are no better then what they claim to fight for, its stupid the assholes on both sides just egging this shit on. While the rest of us me and my gf including have been playing for years and aside from a random dumbass comment jokes upon hearing my gf's voice of "get back in the kitchen" "girls cant play games" thats it. It all boils down to if your a n00b or not or if you fucking with your team.

i have literally never seen anyone make a sexist remark in any online game ive played, the very few times ive heard a girl over the microphone in L4D2, TF2, etc, she wasnt harassed, nothing even close to that

 

[Ticklefist]

I just knew coming into this there would be less "well yeah, duh" and more "but we're being picked on!"

Not by anybody important.

 

[AstaresPanda]

I really dont get all this hate.

So a hobby that was created for and mostly by men for so long has evolved and attracted the interest of the females to the hobby also. Yes i can imagine there is a chunk of assholes who for some reason have an issue with it. But i think that kinda stems from that sudden boom of "fake girl gamers" who as much as some people might not like to believe but they existed and still exist. Its of course going to piss anyone off that someone that is not truly into your hobby comes along and fakes it to gain attention special treatment or some kinda gains. Again does not make it ok to give ppl shit but somtimes you feel the need to call somnone out on their bullshit. Well that all got twisted into YOU JUST HATE WOMEN. no some of us just hate the fakes.

Then this Antia comes along claims she is going to do a crazy indepth thing into the problems sexism in video games.(shit like DoA (gotta understand the Jap market for that thou) And it turned into a half assed over budget work stealing broadstroked hate speech on how all video games are keeping the women down and that basic story telling tropes that have been used non stop since Shakespeare days not as the simplest way to get a story going but a big ol conspiracy to keep the women down and be nothing more then a sexual object. Yes women are sexualized but so are men. Maybe not as much but the guys playing sure as fuck are not as ripped or as butch or manly or what ever as portrayed in video games.

Ofcourse its going to piss people who enjoy to game off.

So you have a community who has been pretty much overlooked as nothing a childish hobby and video games are for kids, with the od few troubled person who would shoot up a school and the media was grasp at anything to make games out to be VIOLENT and poisoning the youth (just as the evil TV and movies have been for years) And not its changed into Gamers are just a bunch of sexist women hating evil evil people.

These feminists need to fuck off as they are no better then what they claim to fight for, its stupid the assholes on both sides just egging this shit on. While the rest of us me and my gf including have been playing for years and aside from a random dumbass comment jokes upon hearing my gf's voice of "get back in the kitchen" "girls cant play games" thats it. It all boils down to if your a n00b or not or if you fucking with your team.

i have literally never seen anyone make a sexist remark in any online game ive played, the very few times ive heard a girl over the microphone in L4D2, TF2, etc, she wasnt harassed, nothing even close to that

Nope same games we play together. L4D2 and TF2. Perhaps its less of an issue with the PC gamer community ?

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

Nope same games we play together. L4D2 and TF2. Perhaps its less of an issue with the PC gamer community ?

perhaps these hateful people were never more than a minority and everyone exaggerated the issue

 

[Harleykin]

the need to point out that games are universal and non-discriminating (grammar?)
is the only problem there is.
every one with a positiv attitude about their hobby would see it like that.

i am m*****f****** tired of this s***!!!

who ever wants to can play what ever they want to as long as everyone involved has fun.
see it any diffrent?
come to germany i'll punch your face for being an asshole a dick an idiot.

i'll smoke one for peace for love and for reggae.
i am a friggin pacisifist but i'd be ready to fight for everyone having a good time yaknow?!

 

[roski]

of course the press has power over the public

Pardon me while I pursue a tangent.

You say the press has power over the public. This seems to imply that the press (which produces a form of media) can influence the way people think and/or change their behavior.

So, you're saying that media can influence people's thoughts and behavior patterns.

Yet, when somebody like Anita Sarkeesian expresses that idea in regards to problematic media - such as media that is sexist towards or objectifying of women - it is often shouted rather loudly that the concept that media can influence people's thoughts and behavior patterns is unfounded.

This seems to me to be a logical contradiction. Care to explain?

Sorry for barging in, this may be a big mistake on my part.
I think you're making rather contrived leaps of logic there. Whats being referred to as "press" here are a group of people who use written and visual media to collect and convey information, for which they must have specific skills, guidelines and, above all, a large social capital. That's their power, they can scream louder than most of us, basically, which means they can swing narratives in favor of specific interests.
Anita Sarkeesian a.k.a "The man who was the bat", criticizes the medium of games as being sexist and all that. She would be part of the same group of communicators with a large group of followers.
On the subject of games being able to influence people's world view and thought patterns, sure, that's possible, artists have power as well.
Either can influence behavior as well, but nothing beats living interaction for that.

 

[Branindain]

of course the press has power over the public

Pardon me while I pursue a tangent.

You say the press has power over the public. This seems to imply that the press (which produces a form of media) can influence the way people think and/or change their behavior.

So, you're saying that media can influence people's thoughts and behavior patterns.

Yet, when somebody like Anita Sarkeesian expresses that idea in regards to problematic media - such as media that is sexist towards or objectifying of women - it is often shouted rather loudly that the concept that media can influence people's thoughts and behavior patterns is unfounded.

This seems to me to be a logical contradiction. Care to explain?

Well, you're right. There's a massive difference of degree though.

People look at the news expecting to see reality. If the press presents a united front as to what the news is, that's going to be assumed to be reality by the vast majority. And once it reaches a certain critical mass, a false reality will become embedded in the mass consciousness and be almost impossible to remove. Plenty of non-factual historical facts have been birthed in this fashion, and press censorship is a critical foundation stone for oppressive dictatorships for this reason.

Entertainment media is never going to have the same effect because people know not to take it as seriously (although this may vary depending on how seriously it takes itself). Seeing Kratos act like an alpha male toward a harem of naked women may disgust, titillate or simply not interest you but it's not going to change anyone's worldview on its own. Now, if that level of misogyny were present in the majority of games and other entertainment then it would, over time, colour the way the player comes to view male/female nteractions. That's why you're right, and that's why it's important to promote alternative viewpoints in games. Personally, though, I would like that to happen by signal boosting/supporting alternatives rather than shaming/censoring traditional ones (dare I suggest, like TFYC are trying to do?). That's where the current agenda on these currently controversial websites loses me, personally.

 

[xPixelatedx]

Ugh... i'm glad the devs are paying attention but seriously they need to get the press to call off the social extremists.

Social extremists? The statement says "Diversity is good, please report harassment when you see it, make online communities a more fun place to be." What is so extreme about that?

Exactly, which is why the gaming press should stop drawing lines in the sand and say "Gamers are the enemy, they are bad". That's what's kept this fire burning a week longer then it needed to be.

This has nothing to do with gaming press! These people who signed the letter were devs and executives at gaming companies!

When someone asks for peace, the people who won't allow it are very much part of the topic. Again, this would have ended a while ago and/or sooner if the places responsible for most info about videogames weren't purposely fanning the flames as much as humanly possible. I don't expect random anonymous people on either side to be level headed, that's fine, but I do expect the people who have made themselves the face of gaming news the last 5 years to not try and instigate things. They're acting like this is a school yard and their clique is collectively judging everyone who isn't a member. Because they're in a position of power, it is detrimental to the entire community. The community cannot heal until the inflammation stops.

 

[AstaresPanda]

Nope same games we play together. L4D2 and TF2. Perhaps its less of an issue with the PC gamer community ?

perhaps these hateful people were never more than a minority and everyone exaggerated the issue

Often the minority in these cases that have the louder voice as everyone else is getting on with cappin points and pwning each other. Would say perhaps an age thing ? PC gamers seem to be older due to assumed cost of a gaming pc next to the assumed cheapness of a console.

 

[Aerosteam]

The problem is, there are people making it a gender issue and there is a pervasive attitude towards women among far too many gamers that says most female gamers are "casuals". This is the attitude that leads to tiresome imagery and name calling, such as "fake geek girl", "girl gamer" and eventually works its way into "discussion" (I hazard to even use the term) of the so called booth babes and female cosplayers that know nothing about video games.

For an idea of how this attitude pops up, how it deforms into an issue of "most women aren't real gamers" and the like, just head on over to this thread: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.848355-ESA-Survey-Finds-Nearly-Half-of-All-U-S-Gamers-Are-Female#20937854

I just read the first dozen or so posts on the very fist page this is what I found:

And so, the cycle continues...

Seriously, "gamer" is such a vague term nowadays it refers to too many people- these kind of surveys are useless.

Are all these people raging sexists that think all women are fakes? I highly doubt it. But when women are so often expected to be "just casuals" the attitude starts to look rather ugly.

Uh... I think you misinterpreted what I said months ago since I have no idea how to contributes to the topic at hand but I'll say this:

I am not a raging sexist and have zero interest in whatever topic this thread is about.

 

[God of Path]

Meanwhile, the trolls are furiously masturbating at all the attention they've received, and the games media and game devs alike get to have a guilt-free self-congratulatory wank over how they sure set those nasty gamers on the straight and narrow with the power of their self-righteous indignation.

what's your point? Perhaps an explicit statement might clear up some of the ambiguity left by your (assumptively) sarcastic remark.

 

[nevarran]

Oh, another news/article about us evil all-hating gamers... you don't say!...