Over 1,800 Gaming Professionals Condemn Hate Speech in Open Letter

[Atmos Duality]

You people going out on a witch hunt for every journalist that so much as gave this women a positive review once under the cloak of "journal integrity".

"You people"?
I guess broad generalizations and guilt-by-association is just the mode of the day now.

Unless that wasn't directed at me; it's difficult to tell with tensions running as high as they are and the direct-quote response.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

They are. Give them a taste of their own medicine and all that.

They can dish it out, but they sure can't take it. It's pathetic really.

I...I don't know how to tell you guys this, but...

Expecting someone who purports to be a journalist or figurehead in the gaming community to hold themselves to a higher standard of ethics (ie. not going off on tantrums on their Twitters, calling for camps and such) than, say, that guy in League who called you a "Fucking ******," is not in any way indicative of an inability to take abuse.

We take abuse all the time. It just so happens that said abuse mostly comes from fellow gamers.

And, now, apparently from journalists too.

 

[Dragonbums]

You people going out on a witch hunt for every journalist that so much as gave this women a positive review once under the cloak of "journal integrity".

"You people"?
I guess broad generalizations and guilt-by-association is just the mode of the day now.

Unless that wasn't directed at me; it's difficult to tell with tensions running as high as they are and the direct-quote response.

...it wasn't directed at you.

 

[Darkmantle]

We believe that everyone, no matter what gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, or religion has the right to play games, criticize games and make games without getting harassed or threatened. It is the diversity of our community that allows games to flourish.

We agree. Hence the term "gamer", which is all-inclusive.

Just to pull you up there - the term gamer isn't inclusive or exclusive. No more than, say, police officer or student. There was a time when women couldn't be police officers and African American's couldn't attend schools (I can provide sources if you would like them). So the terms police officer and student weren't inclusive and the terms themselves didn't mean "no blacks" or "no women" but none the less, people were excluded. See, it's not the title that is inclusive or exclusive, it's the community and the culture.

"Person" isn't all-inclusive today depending on which individual or group of people you wish to have define it. What's your point? Because it seems like you're being flippant for the sake of being flippant.

Could you show me which group you have seen saying person is not an inclusive term?

Furries. Faekin/otherkin.

Those are off the top of my head. It's arbitrary man. Honestly this is a dead end point, I shouldnt have even engaged, but here I am now. If whether or not "gamer" or "person" is "inclusive" is the crux of your position, it's probably not a good position.

 

[Strazdas]

Ok i now officialy dont know what is going on. When game developers start acting more friendly than everyone else i have to admit i think i got into some kind of alternate universe or something. I knew this was going to get big, but damn im proud of you internet.

 

[KazeAizen]

They are. Give them a taste of their own medicine and all that.

They can dish it out, but they sure can't take it. It's pathetic really.

I...I don't know how to tell you guys this, but...

Expecting someone who purports to be a journalist or figurehead in the gaming community to hold themselves to a higher standard of ethics (ie. not going off on tantrums on their Twitters, calling for camps and such) than, say, that guy in League who called you a "Fucking ******," is not in any way indicative of an inability to take abuse.

We take abuse all the time. It just so happens that said abuse mostly comes from fellow gamers.

And, now, apparently from journalists too.

The people who are active get stuff done. Game journalists and the like have tried to be calm and either address this stuff in the past with reason or simply brushed it off as no big deal. The damn has broken now though. They are descending into the realm where the evil ones dwell and taken to their tactics because that's all that is left to them. They've tried being nice in the past and this particular guy. He's not even a games media person. He's a movie person who has always been very much this abrasive. Its bled into his world now and he's freaking pissed off about it. The reasonable people on the opposition have one option left to them. That is if you really want to make this about corruption or have very good reasons why feminism doesn't belong in games or rather why Anita does a terrible job. The only option left to the logical side of that coin is for them to duck and cover. Sort it out and bring your concerns out when the battle is over and the dust has cleared. That's why I'm utterly baffled in this whole situation. The people with brains, and I know their are, on the opposite side of the fence as me hasn't put together that trying to throw your voice in right now is suicide. You'll be taken down with everyone else.

 

[Darkmantle]

We believe that everyone, no matter what gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, or religion has the right to play games, criticize games and make games without getting harassed or threatened. It is the diversity of our community that allows games to flourish.

We agree. Hence the term "gamer", which is all-inclusive.

Just to pull you up there - the term gamer isn't inclusive or exclusive. No more than, say, police officer or student. There was a time when women couldn't be police officers and African American's couldn't attend schools (I can provide sources if you would like them). So the terms police officer and student weren't inclusive and the terms themselves didn't mean "no blacks" or "no women" but none the less, people were excluded. See, it's not the title that is inclusive or exclusive, it's the community and the culture.

"Person" isn't all-inclusive today depending on which individual or group of people you wish to have define it. What's your point? Because it seems like you're being flippant for the sake of being flippant.

Could you show me which group you have seen saying person is not an inclusive term?

Furries. Faekin/otherkin.

Those are off the top of my head. It's arbitrary man. Honestly this is a dead end point, I shouldnt have even engaged, but here I am now. If whether or not "gamer" or "person" is "inclusive" is the crux of your position, it's probably not a good position.

Could you show me any such person claiming the term person isn't inclusive?

The crux of my argument was that there is a portion of the gaming community that either believes or contributes to the idea that many female gamers aren't gamers, because they don't play "real" games. Terms like "casual" and "fake" spring to mind. The person I was arguing with made a claim (that person is not inclusive) and I asked them to supply evidence of this claim.

I just listed two broad groups that choose to not identify as "persons". the term would be, by definition, not inclusive to them.

This is still just a nitpick argument though.

 

[Darkmantle]

They are. Give them a taste of their own medicine and all that.

They can dish it out, but they sure can't take it. It's pathetic really.

I...I don't know how to tell you guys this, but...

Expecting someone who purports to be a journalist or figurehead in the gaming community to hold themselves to a higher standard of ethics (ie. not going off on tantrums on their Twitters, calling for camps and such) than, say, that guy in League who called you a "Fucking ******," is not in any way indicative of an inability to take abuse.

We take abuse all the time. It just so happens that said abuse mostly comes from fellow gamers.

And, now, apparently from journalists too.

The people who are active get stuff done. Game journalists and the like have tried to be calm and either address this stuff in the past with reason or simply brushed it off as no big deal. The damn has broken now though. They are descending into the realm where the evil ones dwell and taken to their tactics because that's all that is left to them. They've tried being nice in the past and this particular guy. He's not even a games media person. He's a movie person who has always been very much this abrasive. Its bled into his world now and he's freaking pissed off about it. The reasonable people on the opposition have one option left to them. That is if you really want to make this about corruption or have very good reasons why feminism doesn't belong in games or rather why Anita does a terrible job. The only option left to the logical side of that coin is for them to duck and cover. Sort it out and bring your concerns out when the battle is over and the dust has cleared. That's why I'm utterly baffled in this whole situation. The people with brains, and I know their are, on the opposite side of the fence as me hasn't put together that trying to throw your voice in right now is suicide. You'll be taken down with everyone else.

I contest your version of events. Quite frankly gaming journalism has been getting increasing hostile to gamers in general, and it's not only about feminism. Remember ME3? Remember how anyone who disliked the ending of that game was an entitled piece of shit, and how everyone was all lumped into one big category and insulted by game journalists, regardless of their actual position?

That is one example of a trend that;s been getting worse for years. I contend that this is "gaming journalism" reaping what it has sown. When you silence dissent, mock, and insult a group of people long enough, they are going to get pissed and lash out. It sucks that for zoe here happened to be the catalyst(ha me3), just wrong place, wrong time. This was a powder keg that was going to blow sometime.

 

[DeimosMasque]

I contest your version of events. Quite frankly gaming journalism has been getting increasing hostile to gamers in general, and it's not only about feminism. Remember ME3? Remember how anyone who disliked the ending of that game was an entitled piece of shit, and how everyone was all lumped into one big category and insulted by game journalists, regardless of their actual position?

Yes I do. I also remember being accused of being a paid off shill for EA for -DARING- to like the original ending and being to debate the why I liked it and didn't think it was a total cop out or trying to point out how some of the quotes about the ending were being taken wrong or out of context.

Don't pretend any argument in gaming culture only has one righteous side and one evil side.

 

[Darkmantle]

I contest your version of events. Quite frankly gaming journalism has been getting increasing hostile to gamers in general, and it's not only about feminism. Remember ME3? Remember how anyone who disliked the ending of that game was an entitled piece of shit, and how everyone was all lumped into one big category and insulted by game journalists, regardless of their actual position?

Yes I do. I also remember being accused of being a paid off shill for EA for -DARING- to like the original ending and being to debate the why I liked it and didn't think it was a total cop out or trying to point out how some of the quotes about the ending were being taken wrong or out of context.

Don't pretend any argument in gaming culture only has one righteous side and one evil side.

I don't,

but game journalists do. Moviebob does.

Remember, everyone who didn't like the mass effect three ending is an entitled whining piece of shit, the same as everyone who thinks there is a conflict of interest is a huge misogynist and worse than ISIS.

I'l remind you that my point is that gaming journalists started it, not the other way around as is your claim. They did not act calm, they acted with "righteous anger" convinced in the moral superiority of their positions.

Frankly, I am quite enjoying the level of shouting back this time around, I'm glad this isn't going away, I hope it remains an issue for some time. These people have been brow-beating "gamers" for a while now. As such If you choose to stand in moral judgement over others, do not be surprised that those others are all over you when it's revealed there is some shady shit going on in your camp. How does the saying go? " First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye."

 

[Tsun Tzu]

The people who are active get stuff done. Game journalists and the like have tried to be calm and either address this stuff in the past with reason or simply brushed it off as no big deal. The damn has broken now though. They are descending into the realm where the evil ones dwell and taken to their tactics because that's all that is left to them. They've tried being nice in the past and this particular guy. He's not even a games media person. He's a movie person who has always been very much this abrasive. Its bled into his world now and he's freaking pissed off about it. The reasonable people on the opposition have one option left to them. That is if you really want to make this about corruption or have very good reasons why feminism doesn't belong in games or rather why Anita does a terrible job. The only option left to the logical side of that coin is for them to duck and cover. Sort it out and bring your concerns out when the battle is over and the dust has cleared. That's why I'm utterly baffled in this whole situation. The people with brains, and I know their are, on the opposite side of the fence as me hasn't put together that trying to throw your voice in right now is suicide. You'll be taken down with everyone else.

I genuinely don't get how their "descending into the realm where the evil ones dwell," aside from being hyperbolic, is the only option available to them, nor how their behavior can be justified while, in the same breath, denouncing the similar behavior of their targets. It's simply hypocritical.

While it may be true that Mr. Faraci is primarily a film person...

I agree, the amount of hatred about gaming is awful. Just look at these Twitter responses:

Devin Faraci - (Badass Digest)

Spoiler

KT Hache - (self proclaimed Social Justice Warrior)

Spoiler

K. Thor Jensen - (Videogames Journalist)

Spoiler

Adam Sessler - (Videogames Journalist)

Spoiler

Helena Horten - (Videogames Journalist for Vice)

Spoiler

Joel Golby (Videogames Journalist - Vice)

Spoiler

But gamers are of course the toxic culture.

...we're not just talking about him here. These are game journalists behaving this way. They are not some douchebag on /b/ or some asshole running their anonymous (Hi, asshole here) mouth on a forum buried in the recesses of the internet. These are public figures attached to actual "respectable" publications. And this, sadly, is just a small sample.

To not hold them to a higher standard of dialogue and ethical conduct denigrates the position of journalist.

All that they had to do was address the concerns being put forth, even totally avoiding the Quinn nonsense out of "respect" for her personal life, perhaps while making a show of cleaning house over the breaches of ethics, and they would have blunted this thing at the outset. Hell, they would have earned a great deal of PR. Instead, they chose to treat it as a non-issue, proclaimed those with legitimate concerns to be sexists, went about insulting their fanbases on social media, and posted articles declaring said fanbase to be dead. It isn't anything approaching professionalism or intellectual honesty on their part.

And you kind of answered your own questions here in the very first sentence.

"The people who are active get stuff done."

Unfortunately, being passive and silent on the issue isn't something that can be done. It's gotten swept under the rug one too many times by those same people who are now and it's reached a boiling point. To further fan the flames, people with reasonable opinions are being silenced demeaned, disrespected, or blacklisted, not just the loud abrasive harassing fucks (who said reasonable folk are also attempting to redirect toward something vaguely approaching sense), but the ones providing a mediating influence.

Wow, finally created an account. Before I get to sharing some links, I just want to thank everyone who is participating in this thread for keeping it civil and rational, surprising how much of a difference that makes when some serious drama hits. But the reason I'm finally de-lurking is this just came across my twitter feed:

https://twitter.com/Ben_Quintero/status/506888656410656768

He wrote this blog on their site as an "Expert": http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/BenjaminQuintero/20140902/224671/Can_We_All_Get_Along.php

and had his status downgraded (confirmation tweet): https://twitter.com/Ben_Quintero/status/506896189904920576

just wanted to share that. Stay Strong

Things like this aren't, in any way, helping the image of gaming media as being biased and not representative of the people they purport to inform.

Let me be absolutely clear here. Anyone, anyone, making threats or harassing someone else is not worthy of your respect or your defense. These folks, journalists and anons alike, who are forcing this harassment narrative to ignore legitimate concerns are, again, not worthy of respect or defense.

We're doing our collective best to stay on point here. Bad apples certainly exist and will be prominent, on either side, but it is still worth continuing to speak.

Edit: Funnily enough, Mr. Quintero's status was given back to him after complaints were made drawing attention to the arbitrary demotion. Speaking up has a funny way of bringing injustices to light, eh?

Edit #2: So, Faraci is the gaming editor over on his site. I hadn't realized that, but...ok, cool! He IS relevant.

 

[Norithics]

Remember, everyone who didn't like the mass effect three ending is an entitled whining piece of shit

Nah. Nope. Never happened. You ignored all caveats to take the insult, that's pretty much all that occurred.

Also the amount of accusing others of having bias while yourself showing enormous bias is funny in a sad way.

 

[KazeAizen]

I contest your version of events. Quite frankly gaming journalism has been getting increasing hostile to gamers in general, and it's not only about feminism. Remember ME3? Remember how anyone who disliked the ending of that game was an entitled piece of shit, and how everyone was all lumped into one big category and insulted by game journalists, regardless of their actual position?

That is one example of a trend that;s been getting worse for years. I contend that this is "gaming journalism" reaping what it has sown. When you silence dissent, mock, and insult a group of people long enough, they are going to get pissed and lash out. It sucks that for zoe here happened to be the catalyst(ha me3), just wrong place, wrong time. This was a powder keg that was going to blow sometime.

I remember ME3. However at that particular point in time I wasn't following the journalists or goings on of the media as closely as I do these days. That being said I was very much on the side of the journalists again. Its not that people didn't like it that set them off. It was the very entitled way the consumers acted after the fact. Petitions being signed and demanding the ending be changed to fit their exact specifications because of some claim of false advertisement. I'm sorry but really I see a very tenuous at best connection between what is going on right now and what went on with ME3.

Thing is anyone on the side that the journalists are "silencing" doesn't seem to have anyone they can rally behind. That is save for 2 crazy guys that are making a film to take down SJWs like I guess Moviebob and Quinn herself. Not exactly a pair I would like having on my side. There's the biggest issue right there. Anyone on that side that has any large voice whatsoever is insane and extremely radical.

 

[Darkmantle]

We believe that everyone, no matter what gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, or religion has the right to play games, criticize games and make games without getting harassed or threatened. It is the diversity of our community that allows games to flourish.

We agree. Hence the term "gamer", which is all-inclusive.

Just to pull you up there - the term gamer isn't inclusive or exclusive. No more than, say, police officer or student. There was a time when women couldn't be police officers and African American's couldn't attend schools (I can provide sources if you would like them). So the terms police officer and student weren't inclusive and the terms themselves didn't mean "no blacks" or "no women" but none the less, people were excluded. See, it's not the title that is inclusive or exclusive, it's the community and the culture.

"Person" isn't all-inclusive today depending on which individual or group of people you wish to have define it. What's your point? Because it seems like you're being flippant for the sake of being flippant.

Could you show me which group you have seen saying person is not an inclusive term?

Furries. Faekin/otherkin.

Those are off the top of my head. It's arbitrary man. Honestly this is a dead end point, I shouldnt have even engaged, but here I am now. If whether or not "gamer" or "person" is "inclusive" is the crux of your position, it's probably not a good position.

Could you show me any such person claiming the term person isn't inclusive?

The crux of my argument was that there is a portion of the gaming community that either believes or contributes to the idea that many female gamers aren't gamers, because they don't play "real" games. Terms like "casual" and "fake" spring to mind. The person I was arguing with made a claim (that person is not inclusive) and I asked them to supply evidence of this claim.

I just listed two broad groups that choose to not identify as "persons". the term would be, by definition, not inclusive to them.

This is still just a nitpick argument though.

You've yet to demonstrate how the term person is not inclusive or how the group you referred to claims the term is not inclusive. All you did was say a name. Moreover, you are confusing what inclusion means. If a group says they aren't something, the term is no less inclusive. For instance, if person A says they are not a gamer because they don't play video games, the term gamer is no less inclusive for it -- no more than the term vegan for the existence of omnivores.

This is going to be a bit of a side tangent, but all the same.

One of my least favorite things about internet activism is how it seeks to outright change the definitions of terms and words to suit whatever agenda is being presented. Racism, for example, seems to have got itself a new definition in many circles, despite it's current one being perfectly serviceable. And now apparently inclusive no longer means the same thing anymore.

Well let me tell ya, if I went to an all-inclusive resort, and found out I had to pay extra for drinks, food and blankets I would not accept, "well the bar chose to be not defined by it so it still counts" as an excuse, and frankly neither would you.


But hey you know what, lets use your definition. Let's bring up some specific examples, how about, the stages leading up to every genocide ever.

http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/8stagesofgenocide.html

Here you go, step 3, dehumanization. There, persons calling other persons not real persons. The same thing you claim makes "gamer" not inclusive, Gamers calling other gamers not real gamers. Oh look, perpetrated by a tiny minority of reprehensible members of that group in both cases.

So person is not inclusive under your own definition.

 

[ZiggyE]

Turns out most of the so called "gaming professionals" on this list are frauds.

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s7k8i1

Most are either;

a.) Not real people at all.
b.) Don't have a single game to their credit.
c.) Have been harassing and promoting harassment on twitter.

Sometimes b and c even overlap with each other.

 

[Darkmantle]

I contest your version of events. Quite frankly gaming journalism has been getting increasing hostile to gamers in general, and it's not only about feminism. Remember ME3? Remember how anyone who disliked the ending of that game was an entitled piece of shit, and how everyone was all lumped into one big category and insulted by game journalists, regardless of their actual position?

That is one example of a trend that;s been getting worse for years. I contend that this is "gaming journalism" reaping what it has sown. When you silence dissent, mock, and insult a group of people long enough, they are going to get pissed and lash out. It sucks that for zoe here happened to be the catalyst(ha me3), just wrong place, wrong time. This was a powder keg that was going to blow sometime.

I remember ME3. However at that particular point in time I wasn't following the journalists or goings on of the media as closely as I do these days. That being said I was very much on the side of the journalists again. Its not that people didn't like it that set them off. It was the very entitled way the consumers acted after the fact. Petitions being signed and demanding the ending be changed to fit their exact specifications because of some claim of false advertisement. I'm sorry but really I see a very tenuous at best connection between what is going on right now and what went on with ME3.

Thing is anyone on the side that the journalists are "silencing" doesn't seem to have anyone they can rally behind. That is save for 2 crazy guys that are making a film to take down SJWs like I guess Moviebob and Quinn herself. Not exactly a pair I would like having on my side. There's the biggest issue right there. Anyone on that side that has any large voice whatsoever is insane and extremely radical.

I don't even know who you are referring to, give me some names and examples please. I can tell you where I first heard about it, Thunderfoot, Repzion and InternetAristocrat. I dont know how you feel about them but I am curious to find out.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Why are people that don't harass, say sexist and racist things getting so defensive when they aren't the people we're talking about?

Because the rhetoric used gets them lumped in with the extremists, and they're rightfully miffed about that. As are reasonable people on the other side of the debate. In many digital, text-based debates on many subjects such behavior can be seen. It's really irritating.

That's what baffles me. I've never seen anyone say ALL gamers are dicks, yet some gamers are getting offended when clearly the discussion has been about dickish behavior, harassment, and abuse.

Why is it so hard to distinguish between the two? It's almost like it's intentional.

That's the thing; by simply saying "gamers do this-and-this" you already imply that. Lots of people on the 'gamer' side of things do the same here by saying "'SJW's' do this-and-this."

And it doesn't help anyone, it just makes people angry, muddling the discussion.