Over 1,800 Gaming Professionals Condemn Hate Speech in Open Letter

[Samsont]

Forgive me, but this confuses me, what the hell is this petition supposed to accomplish? Yeah great it's a show of support, but ultimately it's pointless because it's too vague, broad, and undirected. It can't change jack-shit. We already have people actually *DOING THINGS* to fix this and expose people being assholes ( Example: GamersGate ). This seems like yet another empty wank of "ooh look how nice we are for supporting this Good Cause(tm)". Pointless.

 

[ByzantineEmperorInExile]

I stopped reading at you're first sentence. Just the few examples I've provided shows way more abuse towards journalists than in the opposite direction. I could sit here for week and provide example after example of the abuse gamers dish out and you would probably ignore it all. You remind of the people who ignore all the scientific evidence and still claim that the earth is 6,000 years old. You know what you know and that's all you need to know.

I'm done talking with you.

So that's it?

The wise, experienced man, is going to put his hands on his ears and sing tra la la I can't hear you? I expected you to at least hold to your bravado of wisdom and at try to engage in a proper discussion, but now I don't think it would be a bold guess to say that you're simply intimidated by the sheer length of my post.

Don't be lazy and you just might see that there is some worth in what I wrote. I promise you I haven't insulted your intelligence on my post. It's not like you're gonna waste more time reading it then I already wasted writing, right?

Don't be afraid. I promise if you change your mind after finishing it, it will be out of your own volition, and not because me and my buddies in the industry spun an entire narrative to manipulate you ; )

 

[ByzantineEmperorInExile]

I stopped reading at you're first sentence.

Yup, fanatic. That's ok buddy, stuff like Brad Wardell's 8 year old kid being threatened with rape after Kotaku falsely accused his dad of sexual harrassement, might challenge your confirmation bias too much for comfort!

This is the one thing I don't get in this whole debacle. Why are some people so invested in a point of view that is not even their own? Geez sometimes I feel like I'm trying to discuss religion with a fundie, the one thing I vowed to ever ever do in my life.

 

[AkaDad]

I stopped reading at you're first sentence.

Yup, fanatic. That's ok buddy, stuff like Brad Wardell's 8 year old kid being threatened with rape after Kotaku falsely accused his dad of sexual harrassement, might challenge your confirmation bias too much for comfort!

How many times do I have to say that I don't approve of any type of harassment to satisfy you? Give me a number.

Now compare how many people who harassed that kid to how much harassment there's been toward gamers, feminists, and journalists. It's not comparable.

Why are people that don't harass, say sexist and racist things getting so defensive when they aren't the people we're talking about?

 

[ByzantineEmperorInExile]

I stopped reading at you're first sentence.

Yup, fanatic. That's ok buddy, stuff like Brad Wardell's 8 year old kid being threatened with rape after Kotaku falsely accused his dad of sexual harrassement, might challenge your confirmation bias too much for comfort!

How many times do I have to say that I don't approve of any type of harassment to satisfy you? Give me a number.

Now compare how many people who harassed that kid to how much harassment there's been toward gamers, feminists, and journalists. It's not comparable.

Why are people that don't harass, say sexist and racist things getting so defensive when they aren't the people we're talking about?

Dude. We get it. You think swearing at people over the internet is a horrible atrocity and all these adults who are paid to deal with this shit have the self-assurance and emotional resilience of fourteen year olds.

Now seriously go read my post and you'll understand why people are pissed at game journalism in general.

 

[R0guy]

I stopped reading at you're first sentence.

Yup, fanatic. That's ok buddy, stuff like Brad Wardell's 8 year old kid being threatened with rape after Kotaku falsely accused his dad of sexual harrassement, might challenge your confirmation bias too much for comfort!

This is the one thing I don't get in this whole debacle. Why are some people so invested in a point of view that is not even their own? Geez sometimes I feel like I'm trying to discuss religion with a fundie, the one thing I vowed to ever ever do in my life.

Beats the hell out of me man! Probably why we currently have 465 pages in the other thread.

 

[ByzantineEmperorInExile]

I stopped reading at you're first sentence.

Yup, fanatic. That's ok buddy, stuff like Brad Wardell's 8 year old kid being threatened with rape after Kotaku falsely accused his dad of sexual harrassement, might challenge your confirmation bias too much for comfort!

This is the one thing I don't get in this whole debacle. Why are some people so invested in a point of view that is not even their own? Geez sometimes I feel like I'm trying to discuss religion with a fundie, the one thing I vowed to ever ever do in my life.

Beats the hell out of me man! Probably why we currently have 465 pages in the other thread.

Something something Plato's Cave.

(A Master of Rhetoric am I)

 

[small]

Ugh... i'm glad the devs are paying attention but seriously they need to get the press to call off the social extremists.

Social extremists? The statement says "Diversity is good, please report harassment when you see it, make online communities a more fun place to be." What is so extreme about that?

Note how it's not signed by Anita Sarkeesian... EDIT: Zoe Quinn on. 1 more. Hopefully that quells the extremists.

What does that have to do with anything? Why does everything about everything in gaming have to come back to those two nowadays?

There's no short answer to that. See the thread: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.858347-Zoe-Quinn-and-the-surrounding-controversy?page=447

There's a number of issues of nepotism and corruption involving both Ms Sarkeesian and Ms Quinn and a certain PR agency.

from my own research yesterday:
actually silverstring media which people are claiming is a PR company is actually a feminist game developer that makes experimental games (which i tried a few and didnt particularly like) they dont actually represent those zoe or anita, although anita (i cant be bothered looking up how to spell her name again)is listed as an adviser to them and as such they do not perform PR duties for the gaming sites as people have been suggesting.

as far as i can tell someone read that zoe quinn slept with a PR rep and assumed the entire business was a PR company.

as for the open letter the thing people seem to be forgetting is that its not random consumers signing this, its actual game developers, i.e. the people who make the content we play and as such there is potential for making games more inclusive for people, more diverse and more interesting.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Why are people that don't harass, say sexist and racist things getting so defensive when they aren't the people we're talking about?

Because the rhetoric used gets them lumped in with the extremists, and they're rightfully miffed about that. As are reasonable people on the other side of the debate. In many digital, text-based debates on many subjects such behavior can be seen. It's really irritating.

 

[AkaDad]

I stopped reading at you're first sentence.

Yup, fanatic. That's ok buddy, stuff like Brad Wardell's 8 year old kid being threatened with rape after Kotaku falsely accused his dad of sexual harrassement, might challenge your confirmation bias too much for comfort!

How many times do I have to say that I don't approve of any type of harassment to satisfy you? Give me a number.

Now compare how many people who harassed that kid to how much harassment there's been toward gamers, feminists, and journalists. It's not comparable.

Why are people that don't harass, say sexist and racist things getting so defensive when they aren't the people we're talking about?

Dude. We get it. You think swearing at people over the internet is a horrible atrocity and all these adults who are paid to deal with this shit have the self-assurance and emotional resilience of fourteen year olds.

Now seriously go read my post and you'll understand why people are pissed at game journalism in general.

That's the thing, man, you don't get it. You believe my problem is that swearing is an atrocity. I never said anything like that.

It's like you completely ignored everything I said and came up with an argument I never made.

If after all I've said, you can't see the point I'm making then that's on you.

I can take different sides when it merits that. If and when journalists act unethically I'll be right there saying that's unacceptable and when gamers act like dicks I'm going to point that out too.

 

[R0guy]

I stopped reading at you're first sentence.

Yup, fanatic. That's ok buddy, stuff like Brad Wardell's 8 year old kid being threatened with rape after Kotaku falsely accused his dad of sexual harrassement, might challenge your confirmation bias too much for comfort!

This is the one thing I don't get in this whole debacle. Why are some people so invested in a point of view that is not even their own? Geez sometimes I feel like I'm trying to discuss religion with a fundie, the one thing I vowed to ever ever do in my life.

Beats the hell out of me man! Probably why we currently have 465 pages in the other thread.

Something something Plato's Cave.

(A Master of Rhetoric am I)

Hehehehehehehe

Well I'd certainly rather be a basement-dweller than a bottom-of-the-cave-dweller! )

 

[Dragonbums]

Escapist remains silent for a week and then joins the legions of assholes shitting on the people who make their living with not one but two pieces squarely aimed at the gaming community rather than standing with it? Way to take a stand Escapist, seeing as you are clearly under the impression you would do fine without the gaming community seems you dont need to be on a certain whitelist anymore.

You don't make their living. AAA publishers make their living. And so long as they can take in the money doing actual corruption ( that none of you guys cared about until Quinn) things will go as normal.

 

[AkaDad]

Why are people that don't harass, say sexist and racist things getting so defensive when they aren't the people we're talking about?

Because the rhetoric used gets them lumped in with the extremists, and they're rightfully miffed about that. As are reasonable people on the other side of the debate. In many digital, text-based debates on many subjects such behavior can be seen. It's really irritating.

That's what baffles me. I've never seen anyone say ALL gamers are dicks, yet some gamers are getting offended when clearly the discussion has been about dickish behavior, harassment, and abuse.

Why is it so hard to distinguish between the two? It's almost like it's intentional.

 

[Baresark]

I'm in complete agreement. This needs to work both ways. Harassing speech comes from both camps.

Why are people that don't harass, say sexist and racist things getting so defensive when they aren't the people we're talking about?

Because the rhetoric used gets them lumped in with the extremists, and they're rightfully miffed about that. As are reasonable people on the other side of the debate. In many digital, text-based debates on many subjects such behavior can be seen. It's really irritating.

That's what baffles me. I've never seen anyone say ALL gamers are dicks, yet some gamers are getting offended when clearly the discussion has been about dickish behavior, harassment, and abuse.

Why is it so hard to distinguish between the two? It's almost like it's intentional.

In all fairness, it's the language that people choose to use. They say "Gamers", which is very general. No one says "all Gamers", but they use language that doesn't distinguish one gamer from another. But if they would say something like "some gamers", which very clearly doesn't include everyone, it wouldn't be an issue. You saw it all the time with that hashtag thing a while about... #yesallwomen? I think that was it. The vast majority of people who commented in favor of the campaign used the term "men". Which once again denotes a general that all or most men are guilty of x,y, and z. I didn't pay it any attention because I don't do the things outlined in a lot of the comments. But they could have clearly said "some men", separating the offenders from the non-offenders, it would never have been as big of an issue.

Edit: I almost forgot. The fact that there is a 140 character limit on Twitter is part of why there was no distinguishing language.

 

[AkaDad]

I stopped reading at you're first sentence.

Yup, fanatic. That's ok buddy, stuff like Brad Wardell's 8 year old kid being threatened with rape after Kotaku falsely accused his dad of sexual harrassement, might challenge your confirmation bias too much for comfort!

How many times do I have to say that I don't approve of any type of harassment to satisfy you? Give me a number.

Now compare how many people who harassed that kid to how much harassment there's been toward gamers, feminists, and journalists. It's not comparable.

Why are people that don't harass, say sexist and racist things getting so defensive when they aren't the people we're talking about?

Dude. We get it. You think swearing at people over the internet is a horrible atrocity and all these adults who are paid to deal with this shit have the self-assurance and emotional resilience of fourteen year olds.

Now seriously go read my post and you'll understand why people are pissed at game journalism in general.

That's the thing, man, you don't get it. You believe my problem is that swearing is an atrocity. I never said anything like that.

It's like you completely ignored everything I said and came up with an argument I never made.

If after all I've said, you can't see the point I'm making then that's on you.

I can take different sides when it merits that. If and when journalists act unethically I'll be right there saying that's unacceptable and when gamers act like dicks I'm going to point that out too.

A-HA! A-MOTHERFUCKING-HA!

So you were just being lazy! When my comment is not much longer than a tweet suddenly you muster the willpower to read it to the end.

Maybe this explains how your opinion seems to be so pro-journalists, it wouldn't surprise me if all your knowledge base on this controversy came from twitter.

Now who's-a done-a talking to who? Meesa, sir, donna-talka to you.

Considering that a tweet is 140 characters, your wall of text was more like 50 tweets.

I tried to be reasonable with you and you just insult me.

Goodbye and bless your heart.

 

[kael013]

A post of yours from another thread:

As a gamer of close to 40 years, I've seen the way female gamers have been treated like 2nd class gamers. Whether it was in the arcades and now online. Some of harassment I've witnessed was disturbing.

The gaming industry, like other aspects of life have tipping points, and now that women and like-minded men are fighting back against those males, who think they can treat others badly, there's been so much whining, anger, and lashing out when they refuse to put up with the bullshit.

Don't blame feminists, blame the people who brought us to where we are, those people who thought it was OK to sexually harass and use racist and homophobic slurs.

For people who claim there's an agenda, there is and it's called progress.

If you don't think that there's enough balance, start your own gaming website and discuss the plight of the white, male gamer.

My deepest and sincerest apologies for not being calm after someone accuses me of lying. What was I thinking? I also shouldn't have to put up a disclaimer that says I'm not talking about all gamers, I mean come on.

First off they didn't accuse you of lying, they accused you of being lazy and not listening to their side of the argument before using blanket statements. Completely different things. Secondly, we know you aren't talking about all gamers just dicks - or "the white, male gamer", as that's how that seems to have translated in your head. Now, as a white male gamer, I find that statement to be insulting. I've never felt that my place in the gaming community was in danger, but thank you for lumping me in there too with that blanket statement. Also, why is it only [b/]white[/b] male gamers? Misogyny isn't limited to only one race - women's rights in the Middle East for example are horrible and women have been killed for trying to improve them - so why are you trying to make it out like that?

That's what baffles me. I've never seen anyone say ALL gamers are dicks, yet some gamers are getting offended when clearly the discussion has been about dickish behavior, harassment, and abuse.

Why is it so hard to distinguish between the two? It's almost like it's intentional.

Because people on [i/]at least[/i] one side don't want to distinguish between the two and would rather tar everyone against them with the same brush. Read the Jensen spoiler below and when you're done tell me you didn't get upset at that.

Why are people that don't harass, say sexist and racist things getting so defensive when they aren't the people we're talking about?

Why? From the first page of this thread: K. Thor Jensen - (Videogames Journalist)

Spoiler

and Helena Horten - (Videogames Journalist for Vice)

Spoiler

I'm a gamer, I enjoy video games. As such, I'm a subhuman who needs to be exterminated (for the good of the Reich!). I'm a man, so I need to be killed because other men I'll never know or meet have said some truly disgusting shit. That's why [i/]I'm[/i] getting so defensive.

Just because I didn't comment about Zoe Quinn or the guy that compared gamers to ISIS, it doesn't mean I'm on their side.

You're right, it doesn't and your overall moral stance is great. An end to harassment and racism and sexism would be a wonderful thing. Shame there's so much mud-slinging from both sides - hell, there's mud-slinging [i/]within[/i] both sides as people will yell at you even for disagreeing with them over small details.

Howsabout we take a deep breath and start over without the sweeping generalizations? Is that too much to ask? (I'm talking to everyone here not just you AkaDad)

 

[Dragonbums]

Ugh... i'm glad the devs are paying attention but seriously they need to get the press to call off the social extremists.

Social extremists? The statement says "Diversity is good, please report harassment when you see it, make online communities a more fun place to be." What is so extreme about that?

Note how it's not signed by Anita Sarkeesian... EDIT: Zoe Quinn on. 1 more. Hopefully that quells the extremists.

Considering how Anita taking a shit is enough to warrant a 10 page tumor about her, do you honestly fucking think she is going to put her name on that list?

 

[Atmos Duality]

Ugh... i'm glad the devs are paying attention but seriously they need to get the press to call off the social extremists.

Social extremists? The statement says "Diversity is good, please report harassment when you see it, make online communities a more fun place to be." What is so extreme about that?

Note how it's not signed by Anita Sarkeesian... EDIT: Zoe Quinn on. 1 more. Hopefully that quells the extremists.

Considering how Anita taking a shit is enough to warrant a 10 page tumor about her, do you honestly fucking think she is going to put her name on that list?

At that point, I think the real question is what does she have to lose by signing it?
She evacuated her home due to death threats; barring real harm or death, it can't really get any worse for her.

EDIT:
Found this gem of nonsense...

I bet if you put all the stupid things games journalists have said then compared that to all the death threats and stupid things gamers have said just against Anita it wouldn't even be close.

...

Gamers have been treating reviewers and journalists like shit for so long it's not even comparable.

If you didn't engage in all the shitty behavior then I'm not talking about you, so don't bother me with your comments telling me how great you are and that it's only a handful of gamers that act like dicks.

Alright so...what's your point?
Is it to say that anonymous trolls and bigots will sling shit at anything they think is vulnerable?

If so, well congrats for stating the bloody obvious. Tell me something I don't know.

Is it to excuse the journalists who slung their own shit?
Well if so, I'm calling bullshit.

A per-capita comparison isn't going prove anything other than that journalists are outnumbered by anonymous nobodies. Nor does it justify their breaches in conduct.

For one, just because anon trolls throw more shit doesn't make the journalists' shit smell any nicer.

Second, and I ask you to forgive my presumption but...aren't journalists professionals?
Maybe, just MAYBE we should hold them to a higher standard than "Asshole Troll McNobody"?
Just a thought.

 

[Dragonbums]

Over 2100 gamers have also condemned hate speech!


http://www.change.org/p/the-gaming-industry-please-stop-the-hate

Hurray for them too! Yay, gamers...umm...no?

Ok

nah, didn't you hear?

Fuck Gamers.

The Escapist isn't about gaming news, it's about pushing a SJW agenda that self victimizes women in gaming while making so many straw men that it should set up a factory.

Cause fuck Gamers, right? it's not like without gamers the games industry, and by proxy games journalism, wont exist, right?

I mean, that's just silly. If Gamers aren't buying games, then there wouldn't be a need for people to write about games...... OH. WAIT A SECOND.

That's a lot of accusations thrown at a website that was nice enough to keep open that 480+ page monstrosity for discussion long after other threads like it would of been locked after page 12.

 

[Dragonbums]

Ugh... i'm glad the devs are paying attention but seriously they need to get the press to call off the social extremists.

Social extremists? The statement says "Diversity is good, please report harassment when you see it, make online communities a more fun place to be." What is so extreme about that?

Note how it's not signed by Anita Sarkeesian... EDIT: Zoe Quinn on. 1 more. Hopefully that quells the extremists.

Considering how Anita taking a shit is enough to warrant a 10 page tumor about her, do you honestly fucking think she is going to put her name on that list?

At that point, I think the real question is what does she have to lose by signing it?
She evacuated her home due to death threats; barring real harm or death, it can't really get any worse for her.

Probably. Considering how the harassment towards her has gone to real life levels of creepy. I mean seriously. You people going out on a witch hunt for every journalist that so much as gave this women a positive review once under the cloak of "journal integrity".

I mean sure, Zoe put her name on there (or allegedly it's her. I'm sure anyone can say Zoe Quinn and sign their name in the petition." But Anita will do well for herself just keeping out.

She's already got enough shit for posting yet another 20 minute monologue video.