So you want to live in a society where women's rights and secularism can be undone? That's not evolution it's severe backsliding and gender equality and separation of church and state are ideologies that SHOULD NOT BE CHALLENGED!Gorrath said:Then it sounds to me like you're the one that should leave, since challenging ideas is precisely what leads to the evolution of our thinking and understanding. I don't actually want people with differing ideas to go because I do want to be challenged. I don't agree with almost anything in Shiria Law but one of the biggest things I object to in it is the way it doesn't allow for ideas it deems "dangerous" to itself. What you propose is the exact same mechanism and it's an abhorrent mechanism. No matter who employs it, and no matter their promises that it will only be used for good, it is a mechanism that punishes thought.Madmatty said:Gorrath said:Indeed it seems you don't want to live in a democracy, you want to live under an authoritarian regime that agrees with your personal beliefs and values, which is exactly what the people who support Shiria Law want, they just have different values than you. And there's the rub, you have more in common with those you claim are incompatible with democracy than you realize.Madmatty said:If that's the way all democracy's are then I don't want to live in a democracy because it appears democracy in this case DOESNT WORKGorrath said:Shiria is an ideology that is intolerant of other ideologies. By adopting an ideology that is intolerant of people who support Shiria, you are adopting the same intolerance toward ideology present in Shiria. You are supporting the punishment of thought crime, which is also part of Shiria ideology. So yes, you are indeed becoming more like Sharia by criminalizing Shiria.Madmatty said:It's not becoming that ideology. There should be limits on what you can and can't support an ideology like sharia law undermines basic human rights. So you should not be allowed to support it. Plus France belongs to the French and if immigrants don't like the way France does things they should get outGorrath said:Part of the reason we stand for a better ideology is because we stand for freedom of thought, word and belief. Deporting dissenters undermines the very core values you and I know to be superior. You can't beat an ideology you don't like by becoming that ideology. You can't fight intolerance with intolerance. People can be Nazi's, bigots, racists and spout all around horrible ideas. Our job isn't to deport them but to debate them, to show just why their ideas are shameful and backward. Western civilization is built on the fair contest of ideas not the excision of ideology we don't like.Madmatty said:Us their political beliefs are INCOMPATIBLE with our way of life I say we're bad people for not deporting them or shooting them. We stand for a better ideology then they do.Zhukov said:Soooo... kill people for their political beliefs.Madmatty said:What else would you have us do? I say kill or deport anyone who supports sharia law and close the borders to them. Do whatever it takesZhukov said:You seriously think that would help?Smilomaniac said:The way I see it, Islam should be treated as a political movement across the spectrum and lose the privileges of freedom of religion in western countries.
"Hey, see that group who have an issue with radicalized youth committing terrorist acts? Yeah, I say we massively piss them off! Actively persecute them! That'll calm them right down."
Brilliance, sheer brilliance. I'm dazzled.
Huh.
I'm sorry, who are the good guys here again?
The problem with your second sentence is , who decides what ideologies undermine basic human rights? If people decide that medicine is a basic human right and you argue that it should remain a for profit business venture, they can then argue that you support an ideology that undermines basic human rights and deport you. Do you not see how such broad platitudes can be used to oppress differing opinions? I can give you ten examples off the top of my head how this will bite us in the ass.
The idea that if you don't like the way something is done in a democratic country, you should get out, undermines the whole damned point of democracy. If you are a citizen of a democratic nation, you should use the democratic system to attempt to change things you think are wrong, not just pack your shit and leave. That's how dictatorships are run, not democracies.
It's all about the values if certain values like gender equality and separation of church and state can be challenged then no I don't want to live in a society like that