Pachter: DLC Codes Not Hurting Pre-Owned Sales

[Jkudo]

I actually have to disagree with the "New games are too expensive" argument. That's not to say that I think their pricing isn't excessive but that the industry wouldn't stand to gain anything by lowing prices.

Put simply: If you can get pre-owned games for less than their shelf price, why wouldn't you?

The whole point of the pre-owned games market is that, minus the cost of re-acquiring the title, it's pure profit for the retailer. If the shelf price of games drops, we won't see a fall in either returned games or their prices when pre-owned. People buy pre-owned games not because the RRP of the product is too expensive, but because the pre-owned title is cheaper - you won't alter this dynamic by reducing the price games retail for. The best you could hope is to see an increase in overall sales but even then you're doing so at a reduced price point that means you need more sales to turn a profit.

Say the cost of a new game falls to £39.99, are you really going to choose that over the pre-owned copy that saves you even more money?

Thats assuming that you would have the option of both at the moment. When a game just came out i usually dont see a pre-owned version around, or at least not one with a significant price decrease, so if i see it at its normal price, i'm more likely to just leave it and buy it later, but if it is actually cheaper, i would probably just get it then. I think people would rather get a game sooner, but for a lot of games its just not worth it.

 

[-Samurai-]

I beat DLC codes as soon as I realized that video stores don't remove them from the cases. Now I have a deal with the manager(and old friend) of a store around the corner where he removes the codes form the rental cases and gives them to me.

BF:BC2 made me a killing by selling the codes online for $5. Suck on that Project $10. Not only are you not getting my money for new games(I almost exclusively buy used), and not only am I playing your games online without paying for an access code, but I'm making money from it.

 

[Orcus The Ultimate]

DLC hurting Developpers Integrity, and feeding Gamers Wrath...

Again this, DLC is a headache for many gamers since it's been implemented is ways that seem designed to deliberately squeeze the consumer for most money for the least effort. On disk DLC is the worst offender. All this does is makes gamers fell ripped off because they were locked out of data they already physically owned. All they have done is made you pay more to take back a peice of the game that you feel was stolen from you in a bait and switch. "Want the full content Hmmm? Hmmm? The full purchased experience?" the game sneers at you Do ya? Hmmmm? Do ya?.... Well fuck you! We've locked you out. Now where is our £5 for 10k of data?"

Cut content DLC is another unforgiveable sin .The former employees of the tombraider wanking department admitted in interveiws that content was deliberately cut from their game in order to make it into DLC. I suspect this happens more often than we would dream as post launch DLC is brought into the developemnt time to squeeze your nuts some more and pick you up and shake you for lose change.

[HEADING=3]Also when the fuck did 5 maps become worth £12?[/HEADING] I have bought cheaper full games than that, full AAA games. Post launch maps used to be a nice little extra developers would throw in. It's called aftermarket community support and some people *Cough valve cough* still remember it.

It's a whole culture of contempt for the player. "Player as cash cow" is the new model. And im sick of being told to moo.

i can just agree and support your comment buddy!

erm... thanks i guess. im in a ranty mood as you can see above. : )

what i don't understand is:

Who invented the concept of DLC, so that he gets fired;

and why they didn't stay with EXPANSIONS to REWARD the FIDELITY of players/gamers whatever...

and yes you are right to be angry! we're being manipulated into accepting what we don't want. but the thing is that the newer generations will be scammed, without even knowing it.

 

[Dioxide20]

EA's Project 10 Dollar hasn't really given anything worth 10$.

"Buy this game new, get a special code that adds a character that has no effect on the actual game, as well as one that gives you this neat hat!"

Put something worthwhile in the new games, and maybe it would have an effect.

what about BF:BC2 i think they're on their 6th map pack

Your not paying for them, they aren't a part of Project 10 Dollar.

 

[The_Emperor]

physical media: eventually people will possibly use some sort of flash card or something (megacompany's"DRM'ed"storagecard for games) that they take to the store or input into the pc and download games onto, then put into the conolse or whatever is the gaming platform standard and play. people will have physical media that is distributed digitally. compromise. just my opinion on a possible future situation (maybe 20 - 30 years) cos I totally want to play my games offline, so do many, but maybe "offline" will be an unusual concept in the future as we become more dependant on networked devices and downtime becomes a thing of the past.

Retail vs IndustryERPDERPDERPDERPDERPDERPDERP....cough..erm what I mean is they are both shafting each other for the dollar and shouting "YOU STARTED IT WITH YOUR LOUSY REUSED MARKET/DIGI DISTRIB PLANS AND DLC!". so while they circle each other around this pile of cash eyeing each other like rabid animals the consumer gets caught in the crossfire with irritating, hasty evolutions in the market that ultimately effects their overall experiences of their purchases.

Price of games: time+resources+complexity to make+how much they can viably charge you without being boycotted+how many people they have to pay=price
The reason Megagamescorp RISKS all that money to make AAA titles is because they know they will make a BUTTLOAD of money if the game succeeds. You think consoles would exist if Nintendo didn't make the nes? Nintendo wasn't first I know but the Nes launched high profit, home gaming into the mainstream imo. IT PRINTED 8 BIT MONEY

yes the games industry has a LARGE mark up but games aren't getting cheaper to make they are getting more expensive to make so yeah.. not that im an economist or math genius or anything that's just the way I figure it.

The reason the price has been around £30 - 50 for a long time is I suppose because more people buy games so they make more profit so they dont have to up the price too much. I'm not sure that's true mind you could have alot more to do with economics. I.E the same game in Germany costs about 50% more than in UK because of the euro/pound exchange rate. £40 for games here ?60/70 where I used to live in Germany and exchange around 1.2 Euro to 1 GBP

If you must have something to blame try the modern monetary system and humans natural tendencies toward greed as a survival mechanism.....good luck working out an alternative and getting everyone to sign up though.

 

[RedBeta22]

Fuck this guy, talking out his ass. Why do people listen to him?

 

[Jkudo]

Ok bare with me. Here's a thought. Where are all the used Blu-Rays on the Highsteet? Where are all the used DVDs? Why is it that GAME has as much floorspace devoted to used as new yet HMV and the like have none for DVDs/ Blu-Ray? The reason is this;

[HEADING=1]New retail games at £40-50 a pop are too dammed expensive![/HEADING]

THIS is what supports the massive used game market. Do what every other industry in history has done. Lower your prices. Because the market is setting it's own lower price in the form of pervasive and growing used games sales. Tesco is starting a used game section for christs sake! Want more legit sales? Stop charging more for the shorter and shorted games. A 4 hour game with a luke-warm multiplayer is not worth £45. It never will be, people will buy it used for £20 or rent the thing.


To be honest none of this DLC is "Must have". Project $10 is a failier becuase 1) many pre-owned titles are more than $10 less expensive and 2) many people will buy the game not knowing about it and just get scewed on the back end. In terms of a solution it is, yet again, placing pay-walls in the face of cunsumers who are making it known will million of pre-owned games sales that games are just too dammed expensive for most people at full reatail price.

how many times do i have to say that games are NOT CHEAP? less money, worse game. in a day and age where graphics means everything to sales, they cannot skimp on the cash spent on it. skimp on the cash and you will suffer. the price to put games on consoles increased. the way way to go from now is up. the PC however is still sitting at the 50 dollar mark. the ONLY way they will kill used game sales is to institute a steam-like policy where your game is tied to your XBL/PSN account forever if worse comes to worse, you will have to do this.

the console game devs cannot cut the price without spending less on the game. console gaming is strangling itself to death.

Well thats a problem. They spend a lot of money on the development of games, because they are all trying to create a top selling AAA title. Less money does not mean worse game. It doesnt even have to mean worse graphics.

Instead of creating a bunch of 30 hour AAA titles that cost billions to develop and are 40-50 each, even though most will fall on their faces, why not lower play time and price of the game. I think it would be smarter to create titles with lower playtimes, and adequate graphics for a much lower price, than spending millions to make very little. In fact because they spend so much money to develop, they play it safe, often times too safe. Which is why of course we get another carbon copy of another game rather than something new. The thing is when i say lower price and play time i dont mean on psn or xbla, nothing is wrong with a hard copy of that as well. If the game is received well then make another part to it, or add chapters in dlc(eh).

In fact if you make a fairly small game and its received really well then you could create a Complete and awesome version of the title, knowing that it will do fairly well. Just an opinion though, but if all the complaining they do about how triple AAA titles arent working is true, then they should try something else.

 

[Baldr]

Here is another solution to get people to switch: Release games a week early for downloadable only over physical copies.

 

[manaman]

If you really think buying preowned is a loss for the publishers then you are just buying into their hype. You don't see the same whiny crap about with music, movies, or books do you?

They made their money when the game was sold, trying to make money each and every time someone so much as looks at the copy from that point on is despicable.

When do music companies ever stop whining?

Movies are a bit more sophisticated about it but they cover it up with cinema sales and the fact that pre-owned DVDs aren't as big as pre-owned games.

Pre-owned books? ... libraries? ... anyway I get almost all my books for free, I'm given lots buy a guy who writes reviews for some book magazine. But I occasionally splash out on a book I really like the look of then and there.

Also with the increasing costs of developing games I think it's reasonable they want money for people selling their games.

How many hands could a pre-owned game pass through? 20 people? ... more?

They're not demanding that every time someone picks up a copy of a game they should get money which I respect. On a £40 they will never get, they only ask for £10 of that, and it's completely optional. You don't have to buy into this if you don't want to.

But if a game developer comes out with a really amazing game that they worked really hard on then I think they deserve to get the money for that game. I still buy pre-owned for old games but new releases that I'm very excited about I will pay for first hand.

THQ are currently making amazing Warhammer 40,000 titles... now to me this means they deserve my money so I will support them.

Still whatever... it's 2.30 in the morning and I want to get to sleep.

Record companies whined about internet sales until that became apparent that was the route most consumers wished to take to purchase their music, they whine about people making copies of CD's (even for personal use), and they have tried to make it illegal for you to purchase a CD and rip that CD to your computer, then copy the files onto a personal media player. How is that fair to the consumer that they can dictate when you listen to the copy of the music you purchased, but also what format you use to play back that copy? It's not like playing that copy of a CD and your MP3 player at the same time gives you any tangible benefit anyway. Mostly they whine about piracy through, and don't confuse piracy with used game sales, the two are not even remotely related in the slightest. Now that they successfully labeled pirates as the scum of humanity (not that I don't think it is wrong, I just don't think they completely deserve the bad rap) there new gig is to attempt to convince people that buying used is some how stealing from the developers as well.

As for optional, it's not all that option when they leave the game a hollow shell of itself, to be filled in later like EA does. No way EA is ever going to get my money anywhere near launch day for one of their games. I will rather wait until the full game has been released which seems to be several months from the release of the game at least. Don't tell me that when the voice acting for the "DLC" and everything else is included on the disc for "DLC" they are going to released more then 6 months after the game is released that it and everything before it where not stripped from the game to provide DLC for this $10 program of theirs. Yes mass effect 2, I mean you, if that is the future of EA, they are not getting any more of my money.

You are way, way to optimistic about how many people trade in every game they buy, or resell them. I for one have never sold a game I have purchased. Say only one out of five people decides to keep a game they have bought, That still means one has to buy it new, and four play and resell it before finally a fifth picks it up and keeps it. Yes I agree that retailers in the used game buisness are a rip off, nowhere else other then games will you see a %10 only difference no matter the condition. Used books go for as much as 1/3rd the price of new depending on the condition, used DVDs can go for as little as a few dollars each, Used CDs are typically half the price or less. All of these in a retail environment as well. They also tend to benefit from not being massive chains. You almost never see a secondhand chain of stores aside form pawn shops which are as much of a rip off.

Not that it even matters. Once you have purchased a copy of a game, book, movie, scroll, newspaper, or even someone's random thoughts scribbled on a gum wrapper you should be able to sale, or loan that copy as you please provided you are not making additional copies and distributing those copies. It's only fair for the consumer. After all that is how it has been historically, until companies decided they deserved money every time anyone ever has a gander at something they own the rights to.

 

[Cynical skeptic]

They're really going to have to gimp out their "on disc" versions of games to make it affect used sales.

Problem there is reducing the value of the game simply entices pre-owned sales. For it encourages people to wait until theres enough DLC and the pre-owned price has dropped low enough to buy it.

Ok bare with me. Here's a thought. Where are all the used Blu-Rays on the Highsteet? Where are all the used DVDs? Why is it that GAME has as much floorspace devoted to used as new yet HMV and the like have none for DVDs/ Blu-Ray? The reason is this;

New retail games at £40-50 a pop are too dammed expensive!

THIS is what supports the massive used game market. Do what every other industry in history has done. Lower your prices. Because the market is setting it's own lower price in the form of pervasive and growing used games sales. Tesco is starting a used game section for christs sake! Want more legit sales? Stop charging more for the shorter and shorted games. A 4 hour game with a luke-warm multiplayer is not worth £45. It never will be, people will buy it used for £20 or rent the thing.


To be honest none of this DLC is "Must have". Project $10 is a failier becuase 1) many pre-owned titles are more than $10 less expensive and 2) many people will buy the game not knowing about it and just get scewed on the back end. In terms of a solution it is, yet again, placing pay-walls in the face of cunsumers who are making it known will million of pre-owned games sales that games are just too dammed expensive for most people at full reatail price.

I know you've been quoted a few times from people agreeing and disagreeing, but the problem is retail chains determine pricing. Its called the "suggested retail price" for a reason. Publishers can only suggest a price. The only way to even begin to suggest retailers sell games for less (or more) is to demand a smaller (or larger) cut of each sale. Which in activision's case, just lets the press act like they're the asshole rather than the retailers.

Don't get it confused, used sales will kill either retail, or the industry and retail.

Not to mention, Steam games are still the same price as retail copies because steam needs to offer a larger cut per sale (and sufficient pie charts and PowerPoint presentations to lull the empty suits into compliance) before publishers/developers will even consider using it, as ensuring there are no conflicts with steamworks (or fixing the known ones) costs money. Not to mention it's exceptionally weak, as far as DRM goes.

 

[StriderShinryu]

If you really think buying preowned is a loss for the publishers then you are just buying into their hype. You don't see the same whiny crap about with music, movies, or books do you?

While there are legitimate reasons to complain about game prices, DLC, DLC prices, etc. it's not a good idea to compare the game business to the business models of other types of entertainment media. Games (pre-DLC) only have one revenue stream, that being the sale of a new copy of a game. That's it. Movies, music and even books all have alternate revenue streams that they use to generate an income. I'm sure they have all complained about losses due to used sales and/or piracy in the past, but they aren't anywhere near as hurt by the loss of a new copy sale as much as game companies are.

 

[Omnific One]

It would help if the DLC one gets wasn't laughably minuscule. I pre-ordered Mass Effect 2 because I enjoyed the hell out of the first one, but the DLC that came free was a joke. Had I been a lesser fan I can most assuredly say that I would have bought it used.

This has taught me that there's nothing to fear I'm missing out on as far as content goes. If the rest of the $10 "projects" are just as vanilla, I will remain indifferent to the whole thing entirely.

Yeah, they really need to step it up in terms of content. ME2's was just horrible in terms of the lack of worthwhile content.

 

[manaman]

If you really think buying preowned is a loss for the publishers then you are just buying into their hype. You don't see the same whiny crap about with music, movies, or books do you?

While there are legitimate reasons to complain about game prices, DLC, DLC prices, etc. it's not a good idea to compare the game business to the business models of other types of entertainment media. Games (pre-DLC) only have one revenue stream, that being the sale of a new copy of a game. That's it. Movies, music and even books all have alternate revenue streams that they use to generate an income. I'm sure they have all complained about losses due to used sales and/or piracy in the past, but they aren't anywhere near as hurt by the loss of a new copy sale as much as game companies are.

Which is why I don't complain about paying $70 for a game vs $15 or so for the other forms of media. I draw the line at them trying to convince me that I am the bad guy for trying to stick with practices that are only fair to the consumer.

 

[Therumancer]

Well, as much as the industry wants digital distribution there are still no real benefits to consumers in doing so. It's not a matter of it "catching on" it's a matter of people wanting control of the product they are paying money for. Efforts to trick consumers by say selling physical copies that require internet connections, or simply activate the game over STEAM have been meeting with some very negative commentary as far as I've seen. The problem of course being that people still complain after they spend money rather than catching on and not spending any money until they get a product they approve of.

On the subject of included DLC itself, I will say that very few games have this overall. The "Cerberus Network" and "Stone Prisoner" stand out because they are two of the only signifigant DLC gimmicks out there. Most DLC coming with games right now are things like the agency helicopter for your XBL Avatar, or a couple of weapons that will be outdated in a couple of hours of play (like the Halo weapons for Fable 2). The overwhelming majority of games don't have this kind of stuff at the moment for it to have made an impact.

As a result it doesn't surprise me that the effect on sales have been minimal, because right now it only applies to a few titles that were spearheading things. We won't know what effect it's going to have at all until we see a period where every game coming out has signifigant game content provided as DLC, and a year or two passes so those games are getting to the point where they would be cheap for the mass consumption of used gamers.

I also could have sworn I read an article here on The Escapist about an attempt to sue Gamestop for misleading customers due to the lack of the DLC not being labeled. I have no idea how it played out in the end, but the bottom line is it was tried, and that is hardly a sign of smooth sailing.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm cheering for the used games industry as I think the abillity to sell games used (and buy them) is a key part of the industry and part of what allows people to pay the high price (trade ins) or afford to play games on a budget (those who buy the games used). I simply think it's too early to talk about long term effects, and even now in the short term there have been some incidents.

 

[Sixties Spidey]

He actually does have a point. I've seen BFBC2 and Mass Effect 2 used with the codes intact. Project Ten Dollar is a waste of fucking time.

 

[Retardinator]

DLC hurting Developpers Integrity, and feeding Gamers Wrath...

Again this, DLC is a headache for many gamers since it's been implemented is ways that seem designed to deliberately squeeze the consumer for most money for the least effort. On disk DLC is the worst offender. All this does is makes gamers fell ripped off because they were locked out of data they already physically owned. All they have done is made you pay more to take back a peice of the game that you feel was stolen from you in a bait and switch. "Want the full content Hmmm? Hmmm? The full purchased experience?" the game sneers at you Do ya? Hmmmm? Do ya?.... Well fuck you! We've locked you out. Now where is our £5 for 10k of data?"

Cut content DLC is another unforgiveable sin .The former employees of the tombraider wanking department admitted in interveiws that content was deliberately cut from their game in order to make it into DLC. I suspect this happens more often than we would dream as post launch DLC is brought into the developemnt time to squeeze your nuts some more and pick you up and shake you for lose change.

[HEADING=3]Also when the fuck did 5 maps become worth £12?[/HEADING] I have bought cheaper full games than that, full AAA games. Post launch maps used to be a nice little extra developers would throw in. It's called aftermarket community support and some people *Cough valve cough* still remember it.

It's a whole culture of contempt for the player. "Player as cash cow" is the new model. And im sick of being told to moo.

i can just agree and support your comment buddy!

erm... thanks i guess. im in a ranty mood as you can see above. : )

I can agree, most of the stuff people in the industry are doing is completely ludicrous. 50 years from now there will be a new medium developing, everybody'll bash on it and call it the cause for youth violence and blasphemy and there will be game libraries where you can borrow games free of charge as long as you have membership and nobody's gonna give a fuck.

Why don't we all go back to the full game concept. Game sells well, game gets expansion pack. Expansion pack is good, expansion pack sells well, maybe another one comes on the way. If not then a new good game is being produced. (Best goddamn exampleawn of War, though I didn't like DoW2 much, and the Warcraft series)

 

[duchaked]

so far the dlc codes haven't really gotten to me cuz they're in games i wouldn't play off/online...or at all period

and even if it were something i'm interested, i'd simply be put off by the very thought of its (the dlc codes only for new games business strategy) existence and just avoid the game altogether

hm!

 

[Bill_Stanbrook]

Trading in used products is a practice that's been going on for hundreds of thousands of years. Some of the bile I've heard slung at people who trade in used games recently is a bit ridiculous, in my opinion.