Superbeast said:
That's one hell of a generalisation right there.
I was brought up Protestant, but I'm an atheist. So are most atheists. There are a great deal of people who convert to various religions for personal reasons, even those they have never been exposed to previously, even when not under threat (historically).
Anyone who truly follows *any* religion understands that it is a personal choice to follow it. Hell, it's even written in the Quran (paraphrasing heavily): "Do not try to force unbelievers to believe, for if Allah wanted them to believe then he would have made them so. Do you think you better know Allah's judgement than he?"
A lot of people are of a certain religion because of how they were raised, I grant you. But I wouldn't say it is "most", particularly in the modern age with wide exposure to other viewpoints and cultures.
Yes! Another possibility for me to sound like a real asshole. Here goes: A lot of atheists are probably brought up as something else. But remember how I said, reflect and think about it in my last post? This should be what happens if you do.
Yes there are a lot of people converting, to other religions, but no, I still say it's most. Most of the religious people are still in the same religion as they were brought up to be. Or some variant of the same religion.
Perhaps it is. I see not respecting the choice someone's made as being a disrespect to that person, even if you respect them otherwise. Criticise it, by all means, but do so respectfully and tactfully (which is partly why I feel the day was misguided). As you say, it is probably a difference between us.
I think we view respect as different things. I do not respect peoples religious views, but that doesn't mean I
have to bash them.
Normally I'd take you up on that, but I've just finished my Uni (Classics) exams and am looking forwards to spending the next week with the girlfriend and likely heavily inebriated. To say my mind is mush would be a hell of an understatement!
Thank you. Since I basically know nothing of philosophy.
That would be our main philosophical argument point I feel. Your opinion is indeed more valid to you, but when expressed in an international/large-scale way (such as this day on the internet, or the cartoons in a national paper) then one has to consider other peoples' opinions and how what you say/do/draw will affect that, and perhaps keep it to yourself (or at least do it respectfully) - not out of self-censorship, but out of politeness.
That would depend on the situation and the circumstance. If you feel like saying something or for that matter, drawing something, and then you think "No. I can't do that. That wouldn't be nice." Then you are self-censoring. When you say something or draw something, just because it pisses people of then maybe you should take pause. But even
if you do it anyway, that's your right no matter who you offend.
And it pisses me off that someone takes offense from something like that, so out of respect for people like me they should stop. Also that they want stuff banned. This sort of thing is what's wrong with the world.
Opinions can never be wrong, but that argument (much like this with religion) can be argued from a factual standpoint. I hope you don't mind if I don't elaborate on that (as I'll likely waffle for ages)?
That, my friend, is a matter of opinion.
I agree - I'm an atheist. But at the same time I acknowledge that for many people religion is more about the "magical sky wizard" part and more about being good people, having a moral guide, and it's mental (ie spiritual) support when the time gets tough. Yes, you can argue that religion no longer provides the first two, or perhaps rather is unnecessary, but that final one is a really important factor nonetheless.
Reminds me of an old adage: "There's no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole".
And it makes me sad that some people can't be good without some form of guide.
It also makes me sad that people aren't strong enough in themselves to handle tough times. Most of us do or use the aid of friends.
It's also to bear in mind that the Middle East, as a whole, has a more insular culture (which is slowly changing) and has only been exposed to the worst parts of the West (warfare, trampling the rights and needs of people for capital gain etc) and don't see our, and I hate to use the word here but it'll do, "enlightened" culture in regards to social morality and lack of religious fervour.
Islam is believed to be undergoing a "reformation", so given time it should "lighten up" like the other Abrahamic religions have, however I feel that this day/event is only going to hold that change up, rather than help them to learn to "deal with it", which seems to be one of the primary goals of the day (from other posters - not saying you have expressed this view). That is another of my primary disagreements with the event (sorry, just felt I'd clarify. It's not really relevant to what we're discussing now, but is to some of what I have written).
Yes I see nothing to argue with here.
You took my completely unmotivated speech and made me explain it
at seven in the morning whilst extremely tired.
That's not very nice of you.
