Parents call cops, worried their son forgot to take his medicine. Cops shoot him to death.

[Brandon237]

After reading the second two links, this makes more sense, although I still do not see why lethal force was needed.

You not understand self-defense? You know vehicles are considered lethal weapons when trying to run over a person on foot.

In taking self-defence courses for most of my life, I have learnt time and again that incapacitation is better than murder, and injury is better than death. Especially if it is law enforcement, this should be upheld. At least shoot somewhere where you know they could survive, and what happened to shooting out tires??? If the man could drive towards them, and no mention of tire shooting-out was in present in any of the links, then it is safe to assume that it did not happen. And police getting straight out of their vehicles to apprehend someone in a vehicle capable of movement driven by someone who is suicidal? Plain stupid. They have megaphones, and if the simply locked him in place with their vehicles and didn't get out until it was safe like sane people would do... stupid.

Yes, in that situation there was reason to shoot, but that situation should not have come up. Full stop. The police's dealing of it was not very good. They are law enforcement, they should be able to avoid these sorts of problems.

I'm just saying the cops are human, and Salt Lake City probably doesn't train its police officers for disabling vehicles driven by suicidal people because it doesn't come up that often. So we could play shoulda-woulda-coulda all day.

The cops could have not killed him and been safe themselves, the cops should have been able to avoid firing any more than warning shots and a more level headed bunch of them would have avoided this unfortunate incident. And disabling vehicles of drunks/ suicidal/ psychopathic/ infuriated drivers is all very similar, and between those four I'm sure there are enough cases.

gotcha, you think cops are evil.

And you come to this conclusion how? I am only implying that either the police force didn't give them training for any of the four above mentioned cases or that they were not very level-headed or both. No mention of evil, or of any other cops.

Although in this country (continent in fact) 99% (at least) of cops are greedy bastards.

Are you a cop yourself, or is it a family member/ friend? Don't get insulted by what I'm saying about another group of cops if so. Every organisation and profession has its bad or just less competent members.

gotcha, and when some figures you out, you have to act like a spaz. A cop hating spaz.

If you are a troll you aren't very good.
If you are a cop and you would have done the same you are not a good cop.
If you are a person unable to argue your point or justify your statements (I am a cop hating spaz?) then you should not be on the escapist.
If you are non of these then why do you insist on calling me a cop hating spaz and not arguing what I am actually saying?

 

[bdcjacko]

After reading the second two links, this makes more sense, although I still do not see why lethal force was needed.

You not understand self-defense? You know vehicles are considered lethal weapons when trying to run over a person on foot.

In taking self-defence courses for most of my life, I have learnt time and again that incapacitation is better than murder, and injury is better than death. Especially if it is law enforcement, this should be upheld. At least shoot somewhere where you know they could survive, and what happened to shooting out tires??? If the man could drive towards them, and no mention of tire shooting-out was in present in any of the links, then it is safe to assume that it did not happen. And police getting straight out of their vehicles to apprehend someone in a vehicle capable of movement driven by someone who is suicidal? Plain stupid. They have megaphones, and if the simply locked him in place with their vehicles and didn't get out until it was safe like sane people would do... stupid.

Yes, in that situation there was reason to shoot, but that situation should not have come up. Full stop. The police's dealing of it was not very good. They are law enforcement, they should be able to avoid these sorts of problems.

I'm just saying the cops are human, and Salt Lake City probably doesn't train its police officers for disabling vehicles driven by suicidal people because it doesn't come up that often. So we could play shoulda-woulda-coulda all day.

The cops could have not killed him and been safe themselves, the cops should have been able to avoid firing any more than warning shots and a more level headed bunch of them would have avoided this unfortunate incident. And disabling vehicles of drunks/ suicidal/ psychopathic/ infuriated drivers is all very similar, and between those four I'm sure there are enough cases.

gotcha, you think cops are evil.

And you come to this conclusion how? I am only implying that either the police force didn't give them training for any of the four above mentioned cases or that they were not very level-headed or both. No mention of evil, or of any other cops.

Although in this country (continent in fact) 99% (at least) of cops are greedy bastards.

Are you a cop yourself, or is it a family member/ friend? Don't get insulted by what I'm saying about another group of cops if so. Every organisation and profession has its bad or just less competent members.

gotcha, and when some figures you out, you have to act like a spaz. A cop hating spaz.

If you are a troll you aren't very good.
If you are a cop and you would have done the same you are not a good cop.
If you are a person unable to argue your point or justify your statements (I am a cop hating spaz?) then you should not be on the escapist.
If you are non of these then why do you insist on calling me a cop hating spaz and not arguing what I am actually saying?

You should spaz more to prove you point. There is no point is arguing with you because you clearly hate cops and are now just spazzing out because you think they should be supermen that can out run a car and defy physics. How do you disable a vehicle on foot? Shoot the wheel is very hard to do and won't actually stop the car. Shooting the person driving it will. You have clearly ignored facts then cried because the cops acted in self defense.

 

[Brandon237]

After reading the second two links, this makes more sense, although I still do not see why lethal force was needed.

You not understand self-defense? You know vehicles are considered lethal weapons when trying to run over a person on foot.

In taking self-defence courses for most of my life, I have learnt time and again that incapacitation is better than murder, and injury is better than death. Especially if it is law enforcement, this should be upheld. At least shoot somewhere where you know they could survive, and what happened to shooting out tires??? If the man could drive towards them, and no mention of tire shooting-out was in present in any of the links, then it is safe to assume that it did not happen. And police getting straight out of their vehicles to apprehend someone in a vehicle capable of movement driven by someone who is suicidal? Plain stupid. They have megaphones, and if the simply locked him in place with their vehicles and didn't get out until it was safe like sane people would do... stupid.

Yes, in that situation there was reason to shoot, but that situation should not have come up. Full stop. The police's dealing of it was not very good. They are law enforcement, they should be able to avoid these sorts of problems.

I'm just saying the cops are human, and Salt Lake City probably doesn't train its police officers for disabling vehicles driven by suicidal people because it doesn't come up that often. So we could play shoulda-woulda-coulda all day.

The cops could have not killed him and been safe themselves, the cops should have been able to avoid firing any more than warning shots and a more level headed bunch of them would have avoided this unfortunate incident. And disabling vehicles of drunks/ suicidal/ psychopathic/ infuriated drivers is all very similar, and between those four I'm sure there are enough cases.

gotcha, you think cops are evil.

And you come to this conclusion how? I am only implying that either the police force didn't give them training for any of the four above mentioned cases or that they were not very level-headed or both. No mention of evil, or of any other cops.

Although in this country (continent in fact) 99% (at least) of cops are greedy bastards.

Are you a cop yourself, or is it a family member/ friend? Don't get insulted by what I'm saying about another group of cops if so. Every organisation and profession has its bad or just less competent members.

gotcha, and when some figures you out, you have to act like a spaz. A cop hating spaz.

If you are a troll you aren't very good.
If you are a cop and you would have done the same you are not a good cop.
If you are a person unable to argue your point or justify your statements (I am a cop hating spaz?) then you should not be on the escapist.
If you are non of these then why do you insist on calling me a cop hating spaz and not arguing what I am actually saying?

You should spaz more to prove you point. There is no point is arguing with you because you clearly hate cops and are now just spazzing out because you think they should be supermen that can out run a car and defy physics. How do you disable a vehicle on foot? Shoot the wheel is very hard to do and won't actually stop the car. Shooting the person driving it will. You have clearly ignored facts then cried because the cops acted in self defense.

You are actually making me laugh now. You have STILL not in any way backed that "you are a spaz" argument, I am making valid points (at least 1 a post, most of which you haven't argued) and certainly not having a seizure on the keyboard. You have not supported the "I hate cops" statement.

Also you have given no argument against this "police getting straight out of their vehicles to apprehend someone in a vehicle capable of movement driven by someone who is suicidal? Plain stupid." The cops had vehicles too you know... and it is generally safer to approach another vehicle driven by someone not in their right mind with said vehicles. Something that the police should know. I don't expect them to be superhuman, but I do expect from them, as I expect from all people, a bit of common sense.

 

[bdcjacko]

You are actually making me laugh now. You have STILL not in any way backed that "you are a spaz" argument, I am making valid points (at least 1 a post, most of which you haven't argued) and certainly not having a seizure on the keyboard. You have not supported the "I hate cops" statement.

Also you have given no argument against this "police getting straight out of their vehicles to apprehend someone in a vehicle capable of movement driven by someone who is suicidal? Plain stupid." The cops had vehicles too you know... and it is generally safer to approach another vehicle driven by someone not in their right mind with said vehicles. Something that the police should know. I don't expect them to be superhuman, but I do expect from them, as I expect from all people, a bit of common sense.

You came into this thread full on supporting the obviously biased "news source." Once that was yanked out under you, you have been scrambling to grab straws to make this all the cops fault, and the guy trying to run them over and completely resisting arrest (might I add was suicidal) was innocent the way you tell it. You come off as a cop hating spaz. That is where I get it from.

 

[bdcjacko]

You are actually making me laugh now. You have STILL not in any way backed that "you are a spaz" argument, I am making valid points (at least 1 a post, most of which you haven't argued) and certainly not having a seizure on the keyboard. You have not supported the "I hate cops" statement.

Also you have given no argument against this "police getting straight out of their vehicles to apprehend someone in a vehicle capable of movement driven by someone who is suicidal? Plain stupid." The cops had vehicles too you know... and it is generally safer to approach another vehicle driven by someone not in their right mind with said vehicles. Something that the police should know. I don't expect them to be superhuman, but I do expect from them, as I expect from all people, a bit of common sense.

You also come off as a cop hating spaz, because you figure only trolls or cops would defend cops.

 

[Brandon237]

You are actually making me laugh now. You have STILL not in any way backed that "you are a spaz" argument, I am making valid points (at least 1 a post, most of which you haven't argued) and certainly not having a seizure on the keyboard. You have not supported the "I hate cops" statement.

Also you have given no argument against this "police getting straight out of their vehicles to apprehend someone in a vehicle capable of movement driven by someone who is suicidal? Plain stupid." The cops had vehicles too you know... and it is generally safer to approach another vehicle driven by someone not in their right mind with said vehicles. Something that the police should know. I don't expect them to be superhuman, but I do expect from them, as I expect from all people, a bit of common sense.

You came into this thread full on supporting the obviously biased "news source." Once that was yanked out under you, you have been scrambling to grab straws to make this all the cops fault, and the guy trying to run them over and completely resisting arrest (might I add was suicidal) was innocent the way you tell it. You come off as a cop hating spaz. That is where I get it from.

"After reading the second two links, this makes more sense, although I still do not see why lethal force was needed." Was my very first post. The only thing I said against the cops was that they needn't have used lethal force. Full on support eh?

The cops acted stupidly, someone mentioned spike strips, you said they could not be held up by a single officer out of his vehicle, I fall back on the point you still have given [color= red]NO[/color] argument against, Why the hell was he out of his vehicle??? Answer that before you criticise me again, because it is the simplest logic, that you choose to ignore. It is not grabbing at straws, it is the one idea that makes the most sense to argue, the pivotal point of a strong argument, you can't win if you ignore it. I have conceded defeat MANY times before when the other person can render all my points invalid and give one of their own. You seem to have difficulty with that, and I will not back down unless you can argue that point convincingly.

I never said the guy was innocent, I did say the cops should have been able to deal with it without his death, guilty or not. Read my posts. Don't ONLY read between the lines with your own interpretations of what I said.

That still doesn't justify the cop hate comment. I only said that these cops were foolish.

I defend the people in the right who do their jobs/ duties et cetera properly. When cops get flak for using tazers, I will defend them, if they used their abilities off job to save someone but get caught in bureaucracy, I defend them. When they are foolish, use unnecessary lethal force because they didn't think anything through, I call them out on it. I was not defending the victim, I was, from my first post, criticising the police IN THIS INCIDENT.

 

[bdcjacko]

You are actually making me laugh now. You have STILL not in any way backed that "you are a spaz" argument, I am making valid points (at least 1 a post, most of which you haven't argued) and certainly not having a seizure on the keyboard. You have not supported the "I hate cops" statement.

Also you have given no argument against this "police getting straight out of their vehicles to apprehend someone in a vehicle capable of movement driven by someone who is suicidal? Plain stupid." The cops had vehicles too you know... and it is generally safer to approach another vehicle driven by someone not in their right mind with said vehicles. Something that the police should know. I don't expect them to be superhuman, but I do expect from them, as I expect from all people, a bit of common sense.

You came into this thread full on supporting the obviously biased "news source." Once that was yanked out under you, you have been scrambling to grab straws to make this all the cops fault, and the guy trying to run them over and completely resisting arrest (might I add was suicidal) was innocent the way you tell it. You come off as a cop hating spaz. That is where I get it from.

"After reading the second two links, this makes more sense, although I still do not see why lethal force was needed." Was my very first post. The only thing I said against the cops was that they needn't have used lethal force. Full on support eh?

The cops acted stupidly, someone mentioned spike strips, you said they could not be held up by a single officer out of his vehicle, I fall back on the point you still have given [color= red]NO[/color] argument against, Why the hell was he out of his vehicle??? Answer that before you criticise me again, because it is the simplest logic, that you choose to ignore. It is not grabbing at straws, it is the one idea that makes the most sense to argue, the pivotal point of a strong argument, you can't win if you ignore it. I have conceded defeat MANY times before when the other person can render all my points invalid and give one of their own. You seem to have difficulty with that, and I will not back down unless you can argue that point convincingly.

I never said the guy was innocent, I did say the cops should have been able to deal with it without his death, guilty or not. Read my posts. Don't ONLY read between the lines with your own interpretations of what I said.

That still doesn't justify the cop hate comment. I only said that these cops were foolish.

I defend the people in the right who do their jobs/ duties et cetera properly. When cops get flak for using tazers, I will defend them, if they used their abilities off job to save someone but get caught in bureaucracy, I defend them. When they are foolish, use unnecessary lethal force because they didn't think anything through, I call them out on it. I was not defending the victim, I was, from my first post, criticising the police IN THIS INCIDENT.

Tazers don't work on cars. They had already run the guy off the road believe the vehicle was disabled when the approach the vehicle. What would you want them to do, run the guy off the road, and the continually ram the vehicle until they were sure it is disabled? Try to ram his vehicle so hard that it flipped, causing massive damages to him, their vehicles, and possibly other motorists? You have had them sit in their cars and fire at his vehicle till it was disabled?

Also, you do realize we are comfortable, have all the time to think about this, and don't have to do anything. We haven't just tried to pull this asshole over twice before he tried to run us over. Real easy to criticize the police when you aren't under pressure.

 

[Brandon237]

You are actually making me laugh now. You have STILL not in any way backed that "you are a spaz" argument, I am making valid points (at least 1 a post, most of which you haven't argued) and certainly not having a seizure on the keyboard. You have not supported the "I hate cops" statement.

Also you have given no argument against this "police getting straight out of their vehicles to apprehend someone in a vehicle capable of movement driven by someone who is suicidal? Plain stupid." The cops had vehicles too you know... and it is generally safer to approach another vehicle driven by someone not in their right mind with said vehicles. Something that the police should know. I don't expect them to be superhuman, but I do expect from them, as I expect from all people, a bit of common sense.

You came into this thread full on supporting the obviously biased "news source." Once that was yanked out under you, you have been scrambling to grab straws to make this all the cops fault, and the guy trying to run them over and completely resisting arrest (might I add was suicidal) was innocent the way you tell it. You come off as a cop hating spaz. That is where I get it from.

"After reading the second two links, this makes more sense, although I still do not see why lethal force was needed." Was my very first post. The only thing I said against the cops was that they needn't have used lethal force. Full on support eh?

The cops acted stupidly, someone mentioned spike strips, you said they could not be held up by a single officer out of his vehicle, I fall back on the point you still have given [color= red]NO[/color] argument against, Why the hell was he out of his vehicle??? Answer that before you criticise me again, because it is the simplest logic, that you choose to ignore. It is not grabbing at straws, it is the one idea that makes the most sense to argue, the pivotal point of a strong argument, you can't win if you ignore it. I have conceded defeat MANY times before when the other person can render all my points invalid and give one of their own. You seem to have difficulty with that, and I will not back down unless you can argue that point convincingly.

I never said the guy was innocent, I did say the cops should have been able to deal with it without his death, guilty or not. Read my posts. Don't ONLY read between the lines with your own interpretations of what I said.

That still doesn't justify the cop hate comment. I only said that these cops were foolish.

I defend the people in the right who do their jobs/ duties et cetera properly. When cops get flak for using tazers, I will defend them, if they used their abilities off job to save someone but get caught in bureaucracy, I defend them. When they are foolish, use unnecessary lethal force because they didn't think anything through, I call them out on it. I was not defending the victim, I was, from my first post, criticising the police IN THIS INCIDENT.

Tazers don't work on cars. They had already run the guy off the road believe the vehicle was disabled when the approach the vehicle. What would you want them to do, run the guy off the road, and the continually ram the vehicle until they were sure it is disabled? Try to ram his vehicle so hard that it flipped, causing massive damages to him, their vehicles, and possibly other motorists? You have had them sit in their cars and fire at his vehicle till it was disabled?

Also, you do realize we are comfortable, have all the time to think about this, and don't have to do anything. We haven't just tried to pull this asshole over twice before he tried to run us over. Real easy to criticize the police when you aren't under pressure.

The first thing they should have been taught, in the military, the police force, the ambulance service or the fire department: Think clearly, act rationally, no matter what shit is happening.

Also, boxing in his vehicle when they thought it was disabled, why assume that it is disabled just because it stopped. Once. Rookie mistake at best.

I never suggested they tazer the guy, read my post properly.

And sit in their cars, shoot out just the tires, approach after waiting and calling for him to come out of his vehicle. Sounds good. Box him in close, not ram, just close in. Then you can speak to him, safely, window to window.

You still have not argued that afore-mentioned pivotal point.

 

[bdcjacko]

And sit in their cars, shoot out just the tires, approach after waiting and calling for him to come out of his vehicle. Sounds good. Box him in close, not ram, just close in. Then you can speak to him, safely, window to window.

If you honestly think that is a good idea, then I'm done talking to you. You have no idea how dangerous that is and horrible an idea that is.

 

[Brandon237]

And sit in their cars, shoot out just the tires, approach after waiting and calling for him to come out of his vehicle. Sounds good. Box him in close, not ram, just close in. Then you can speak to him, safely, window to window.

If you honestly think that is a good idea, then I'm done talking to you. You have no idea how dangerous that is and horrible an idea that is.

No, Enlighten me.

And yes, he is just going to drive off, when surrounded by vehicles and a railing, from zero Km/h, when a police officer has a gun pointed at him at a range where he can EASILY aim for a non-lethal part of the suicidal guy? That sounds INCREDIBLY reckless and stupid to me, much more so then getting out your damn vehicle when you don't know that his is disabled. If you didn't pick it up, there was sarcasm in there.

Be done talking, because you have made no good points against that argument, and have twice just called me a cop-hating spaz instead of putting forth anything useful.

 

[bdcjacko]

And sit in their cars, shoot out just the tires, approach after waiting and calling for him to come out of his vehicle. Sounds good. Box him in close, not ram, just close in. Then you can speak to him, safely, window to window.

If you honestly think that is a good idea, then I'm done talking to you. You have no idea how dangerous that is and horrible an idea that is.

No, Enlighten me.

And yes, he is just going to drive off, when surrounded by vehicles and a railing, from zero Km/h, when a police officer has a gun pointed at him at a range where he can EASILY aim for a non-lethal part of the suicidal guy? That sounds INCREDIBLY reckless and stupid to me, much more so then getting out your damn vehicle when you don't know that his is disabled. If you didn't pick it up, there was sarcasm in there.

Be done talking, because you have made no good points against that argument, and have twice just called me a cop-hating spaz instead of putting forth anything useful.

Firing at tired is pointless and dangerous. If you fire at tires, you are firing at hard rub and metal. All that will do is create shrapnel. The vehicle will still be able to drive. So if you are going to shoot, you might as well shoot the person, there is less shrapnel that could hurt bystanders.

And if you are doing to box someone in, you box them all the way in.

 

[Brandon237]

And sit in their cars, shoot out just the tires, approach after waiting and calling for him to come out of his vehicle. Sounds good. Box him in close, not ram, just close in. Then you can speak to him, safely, window to window.

If you honestly think that is a good idea, then I'm done talking to you. You have no idea how dangerous that is and horrible an idea that is.

No, Enlighten me.

And yes, he is just going to drive off, when surrounded by vehicles and a railing, from zero Km/h, when a police officer has a gun pointed at him at a range where he can EASILY aim for a non-lethal part of the suicidal guy? That sounds INCREDIBLY reckless and stupid to me, much more so then getting out your damn vehicle when you don't know that his is disabled. If you didn't pick it up, there was sarcasm in there.

Be done talking, because you have made no good points against that argument, and have twice just called me a cop-hating spaz instead of putting forth anything useful.

Firing at tired is pointless and dangerous. If you fire at tires, you are firing at hard rub and metal. All that will do is create shrapnel. The vehicle will still be able to drive. So if you are going to shoot, you might as well shoot the person, there is less shrapnel that could hurt bystanders.

And if you are doing to box someone in, you box them all the way in.

Fair enough, don't shoot the tires, but still box them in, and don't get out your vehicle. If you boxed them in first the shrapnel wouldn't travel far anyway, and tires don't make that much shrapnel either, even if you only reduce his grip, he will NOT escape the box.

"And if you are doing to box someone in, you box them all the way in." Unnecessary lethal force, you are supporting the exact idea these cops had. If he is boxed in with damaged tires he won't budge, so why crush him? It is bloody stupid. You would probably have had him killed anyway had everything gone perfectly, that is why you persist so stupidly in your idea that the police couldn't have done any better, or at the very least shouldn't be criticised for not doing better. Criticism is why things improve, why mistakes aren't remade. You are advocating unnecessary violence and refusing to accept that it was avoidable, despite facts and logic showing that it was.

Read this post carefully, and if you intend to argue it, do it properly and read what you have typed, I am getting sick of foolish comments.