Parents call cops, worried their son forgot to take his medicine. Cops shoot him to death.

[Mad1Cow]

*SNIP*

Again I say research more.
If you shoot out the tires when a car is at a dead stop it can still go pretty freaking well. It will cause near irreversible damage to car which is VERY expensive to fix.
Also we do not know how many times Joey was shot but it is actually taught to aim for NONFATAL areas to subdue. But then again Joey was behind a 2 ton killing machine.

Also I am pretty sure that the reason they don't teach it with your example anymore because of the fact that the person WOULD NOT be in jail for life because even in that example he followed all procedure and only discharged his weapon as a last resort.

And yet we hear of the guy with the table leg that got gunned down because the police thought he was carrying a shotgun. The point is, they're teaching them to shoot a non-lethal area instead of just say teaching them to use every other method. There is no such thing as a non-lethal area in shooting, when you shoot, you shoot to kill, not subdue.

Anyway I'm gonna leave this conversation because it's obvious we're not gonna meet any middle ground and I could go on all day arguing if it wasn't for the fact I have assignments to do. For the sake of ease, you were right, have a cookie, enjoy your day...

 

[Krion_Vark]

*SNIP*

Again I say research more.
If you shoot out the tires when a car is at a dead stop it can still go pretty freaking well. It will cause near irreversible damage to car which is VERY expensive to fix.
Also we do not know how many times Joey was shot but it is actually taught to aim for NONFATAL areas to subdue. But then again Joey was behind a 2 ton killing machine.

Also I am pretty sure that the reason they don't teach it with your example anymore because of the fact that the person WOULD NOT be in jail for life because even in that example he followed all procedure and only discharged his weapon as a last resort.

And yet we hear of the guy with the table leg that got gunned down because the police thought he was carrying a shotgun. The point is, they're teaching them to shoot a non-lethal area instead of just say teaching them to use every other method. There is no such thing as a non-lethal area in shooting, when you shoot, you shoot to kill, not subdue.

Anyway I'm gonna leave this conversation because it's obvious we're not gonna meet any middle ground and I could go on all day arguing if it wasn't for the fact I have assignments to do. For the sake of ease, you were right, have a cookie, enjoy your day...

If you were standing in an area where the police were in a standoff with someone who supposedly has a gun pointed at someone but you can't really tell it is a gun and the guy threatens to shoot the person and the cops do not shoot the person and he ends up killing the person with the gun. Would you say its justified?
How about if it ends up being a brightly colored Nerf gun. Is it justified to kill the guy? If someone threatens someone with a weapon be it any type and knife, gun, sword, laser, toy. But cannot tell that it is real or not. Would you rather them let the person kill someone or would you rather the police shoot the person?

And FYI they actually train the police NOT TO shoot the gun which is why it is common practice to put the person on leave after the discharge of their weapon to make sure their mental capacities are not messed up and to make sure that they can still perform their duties without going gun happy or postal.

 

[Mad1Cow]

Something smart.

Like I said, left the convo, have your cookie, I'm not gonna argue my way of thinking because it clearly won't have an impact. It will just further add needless posts to this pretty much dead topic. Have a good day...

 

[GWarface]

Yeah, I was just thinking "only in america" lol.

The worst part is that it isnt just in the US this happends...

He thinks America is a police state!

Well, if you arent just trolling me, i challenge you to prove me wrong...

The term police state describes a state in which the government exercises rigid and repressive controls over the social, economic and political life of the population. A police state typically exhibits elements of totalitarianism and social control, and there is usually little or no distinction between the law and the exercise of political power by the executive.

If you think for a second that the US government is running a police state, take off your tin foil hat and thank God you don't have to live in North Korea or a Middle Eastern dictatorship. The fact that you are even allowed to post that the US is a police state is proof enough that you have freedom of speech.

Well, maybe you should start to wear a tin-foil hat.. The Elites mindcontrol and indoctrination has defo worked on you..
You see, where the countries you mention are direct dictatorships, most western countries are dictatorships disguised as democracies..

People in the western world knows what a direct dictatorship looks like, therefore the Elites has to use indirect and "stealthy" use of power, hence why many people are oblivious to what is going on around them..

Wake up and smell the ashes my friend.. If you honestly think that in the last thousands of years, our society is the only one without power hungry sociopaths at the top, then you are in for a real suprise the next 10-20 years..

History repeats itself.. And this is not an attack on the US, not at all.. It goes on around the globe and has strong roots in England, wich sadly enough, is where you live..

Smile and wave to the cameras for me..

 

[-Ulven-]

Not terminated?? Not terminated?? If the salt lake city police could do anything right this officer would have been executed.

Tel me again why guns are a necessity?

Not fired? He was not fired?!?!? Give that crazy murderer the death penalty.

So do you guys just believe everything you read on the internet?

No.... but my question still stands.

 

[bdcjacko]

Not terminated?? Not terminated?? If the salt lake city police could do anything right this officer would have been executed.

Tel me again why guns are a necessity?

Not fired? He was not fired?!?!? Give that crazy murderer the death penalty.

So do you guys just believe everything you read on the internet?

No.... but my question still stands.

Why are gun necessary? Because we don't live in a fair tale land where everything can be solved with the magic of love and kindness.

If those police officers didn't have guns, they would have been ran over.

 

[-Ulven-]

Not terminated?? Not terminated?? If the salt lake city police could do anything right this officer would have been executed.

Tel me again why guns are a necessity?

Not fired? He was not fired?!?!? Give that crazy murderer the death penalty.

So do you guys just believe everything you read on the internet?

No.... but my question still stands.

Why are gun necessary? Because we don't live in a fair tale land where everything can be solved with the magic of love and kindness.

If those police officers didn't have guns, they would have been ran over.

I don't know really... they could... you know MOVE
And lethal force is probably the worst kind of action against any crime as long as there is no, and I mean NO other possibility. (Like say an armed robber pretending to be in a shooting gallery). Also guns are not a necissity. They are just a mean of creating a sense of security when not used for hunting. And we outgrew the hunting needs long ago. So guns as I see are not a necissity and not any good mean of keeping a law.

 

[bdcjacko]

Not terminated?? Not terminated?? If the salt lake city police could do anything right this officer would have been executed.

Tel me again why guns are a necessity?

Not fired? He was not fired?!?!? Give that crazy murderer the death penalty.

So do you guys just believe everything you read on the internet?

No.... but my question still stands.

Why are gun necessary? Because we don't live in a fair tale land where everything can be solved with the magic of love and kindness.

If those police officers didn't have guns, they would have been ran over.

I don't know really... they could... you know MOVE
And lethal force is probably the worst kind of action against any crime as long as there is no, and I mean NO other possibility. (Like say an armed robber pretending to be in a shooting gallery). Also guns are not a necissity. They are just a mean of creating a sense of security when not used for hunting. And we outgrew the hunting needs long ago. So guns as I see are not a necissity and not any good mean of keeping a law.

Yeah, cause people are faster than cars. Have fun living in fairy dream land. I see you are still 19 and still idealistic.

 

[-Ulven-]

Not terminated?? Not terminated?? If the salt lake city police could do anything right this officer would have been executed.

Tel me again why guns are a necessity?

Not fired? He was not fired?!?!? Give that crazy murderer the death penalty.

So do you guys just believe everything you read on the internet?

No.... but my question still stands.

Why are gun necessary? Because we don't live in a fair tale land where everything can be solved with the magic of love and kindness.

If those police officers didn't have guns, they would have been ran over.

I don't know really... they could... you know MOVE
And lethal force is probably the worst kind of action against any crime as long as there is no, and I mean NO other possibility. (Like say an armed robber pretending to be in a shooting gallery). Also guns are not a necissity. They are just a mean of creating a sense of security when not used for hunting. And we outgrew the hunting needs long ago. So guns as I see are not a necissity and not any good mean of keeping a law.

Yeah, cause people are faster than cars. Have fun living in fairy dream land. I see you are still 19 and still idealistic.

I think you might be running the wrong way. It should be easy to anticipate and avoid a moving car. And from what I read the officer was never in danger of being run over. And what about spike strips etc.? But we are too differnet in culutre I guess. I live in a country where you have a bigger chance of going to jail than getting shot when hunted by the police yours is vice versa.

 

[bdcjacko]

Not terminated?? Not terminated?? If the salt lake city police could do anything right this officer would have been executed.

Tel me again why guns are a necessity?

Not fired? He was not fired?!?!? Give that crazy murderer the death penalty.

So do you guys just believe everything you read on the internet?

No.... but my question still stands.

Why are gun necessary? Because we don't live in a fair tale land where everything can be solved with the magic of love and kindness.

If those police officers didn't have guns, they would have been ran over.

I don't know really... they could... you know MOVE
And lethal force is probably the worst kind of action against any crime as long as there is no, and I mean NO other possibility. (Like say an armed robber pretending to be in a shooting gallery). Also guns are not a necissity. They are just a mean of creating a sense of security when not used for hunting. And we outgrew the hunting needs long ago. So guns as I see are not a necissity and not any good mean of keeping a law.

Yeah, cause people are faster than cars. Have fun living in fairy dream land. I see you are still 19 and still idealistic.

I think you might be running the wrong way. It should be easy to anticipate and avoid a moving car. And from what I read the officer was never in danger of being run over. And what about spike strips etc.? But we are too differnet in culutre I guess. I live in a country where you have a bigger chance of going to jail than getting shot when hunted by the police yours is vice versa.

Cause a spike strip is easy to to carry on your belt and deploy at a moments notice.

 

[-Ulven-]

Not terminated?? Not terminated?? If the salt lake city police could do anything right this officer would have been executed.

Tel me again why guns are a necessity?

Not fired? He was not fired?!?!? Give that crazy murderer the death penalty.

So do you guys just believe everything you read on the internet?

No.... but my question still stands.

Why are gun necessary? Because we don't live in a fair tale land where everything can be solved with the magic of love and kindness.

If those police officers didn't have guns, they would have been ran over.

I don't know really... they could... you know MOVE
And lethal force is probably the worst kind of action against any crime as long as there is no, and I mean NO other possibility. (Like say an armed robber pretending to be in a shooting gallery). Also guns are not a necissity. They are just a mean of creating a sense of security when not used for hunting. And we outgrew the hunting needs long ago. So guns as I see are not a necissity and not any good mean of keeping a law.

Yeah, cause people are faster than cars. Have fun living in fairy dream land. I see you are still 19 and still idealistic.

I think you might be running the wrong way. It should be easy to anticipate and avoid a moving car. And from what I read the officer was never in danger of being run over. And what about spike strips etc.? But we are too differnet in culutre I guess. I live in a country where you have a bigger chance of going to jail than getting shot when hunted by the police yours is vice versa.

Cause a spike strip is easy to to carry on your belt and deploy at a moments notice.

I'll give up and ask you to take a look at the NOKAS case which happened in my own hometown and caused one dead policeman, but all of the criminals were imprisoned.

 

[bdcjacko]

Not terminated?? Not terminated?? If the salt lake city police could do anything right this officer would have been executed.

Tel me again why guns are a necessity?

Not fired? He was not fired?!?!? Give that crazy murderer the death penalty.

So do you guys just believe everything you read on the internet?

No.... but my question still stands.

Why are gun necessary? Because we don't live in a fair tale land where everything can be solved with the magic of love and kindness.

If those police officers didn't have guns, they would have been ran over.

I don't know really... they could... you know MOVE
And lethal force is probably the worst kind of action against any crime as long as there is no, and I mean NO other possibility. (Like say an armed robber pretending to be in a shooting gallery). Also guns are not a necissity. They are just a mean of creating a sense of security when not used for hunting. And we outgrew the hunting needs long ago. So guns as I see are not a necissity and not any good mean of keeping a law.

Yeah, cause people are faster than cars. Have fun living in fairy dream land. I see you are still 19 and still idealistic.

I think you might be running the wrong way. It should be easy to anticipate and avoid a moving car. And from what I read the officer was never in danger of being run over. And what about spike strips etc.? But we are too differnet in culutre I guess. I live in a country where you have a bigger chance of going to jail than getting shot when hunted by the police yours is vice versa.

Cause a spike strip is easy to to carry on your belt and deploy at a moments notice.

I'll give up and ask you to take a look at the NOKAS case which happened in my own hometown and caused one dead policeman, but all of the criminals were imprisoned.

Yeah...like I want to live in a country that values the lives of criminals over policemen.

 

[-Ulven-]

Not terminated?? Not terminated?? If the salt lake city police could do anything right this officer would have been executed.

Tel me again why guns are a necessity?

Not fired? He was not fired?!?!? Give that crazy murderer the death penalty.

So do you guys just believe everything you read on the internet?

No.... but my question still stands.

Why are gun necessary? Because we don't live in a fair tale land where everything can be solved with the magic of love and kindness.

If those police officers didn't have guns, they would have been ran over.

I don't know really... they could... you know MOVE
And lethal force is probably the worst kind of action against any crime as long as there is no, and I mean NO other possibility. (Like say an armed robber pretending to be in a shooting gallery). Also guns are not a necissity. They are just a mean of creating a sense of security when not used for hunting. And we outgrew the hunting needs long ago. So guns as I see are not a necissity and not any good mean of keeping a law.

Yeah, cause people are faster than cars. Have fun living in fairy dream land. I see you are still 19 and still idealistic.

I think you might be running the wrong way. It should be easy to anticipate and avoid a moving car. And from what I read the officer was never in danger of being run over. And what about spike strips etc.? But we are too differnet in culutre I guess. I live in a country where you have a bigger chance of going to jail than getting shot when hunted by the police yours is vice versa.

Cause a spike strip is easy to to carry on your belt and deploy at a moments notice.

I'll give up and ask you to take a look at the NOKAS case which happened in my own hometown and caused one dead policeman, but all of the criminals were imprisoned.

Yeah...like I want to live in a country that values the lives of criminals over policemen.

Yeah... I see your problem there. You value life. People ususally think that any death is unjustified. What if one of your loved ones was shot for a minor offence (or a major one for that matter)

 

[bdcjacko]

Yeah... I see your problem there. You value life. People ususally think that any death is unjustified. What if one of your loved ones was shot for a minor offence (or a major one for that matter)

I don't know what kind of country you think America is where the cop come running in a shooting at random for a minor offense, but it is awfully rare. There needs to be a reason for situation to escalate. So if one of my loved ones was dumb enough to let emotions get the better of them, resist to the point the police need to draw their fire arms, then they get shot. Sucks for them.

 

[NeutralMunchHotel]

Well, maybe you should start to wear a tin-foil hat.. The Elites mindcontrol and indoctrination has defo worked on you..
You see, where the countries you mention are direct dictatorships, most western countries are dictatorships disguised as democracies..

People in the western world knows what a direct dictatorship looks like, therefore the Elites has to use indirect and "stealthy" use of power, hence why many people are oblivious to what is going on around them..

Wake up and smell the ashes my friend.. If you honestly think that in the last thousands of years, our society is the only one without power hungry sociopaths at the top, then you are in for a real suprise the next 10-20 years..

History repeats itself.. And this is not an attack on the US, not at all.. It goes on around the globe and has strong roots in England, wich sadly enough, is where you live..

Smile and wave to the cameras for me..

You seem to have some half-baked conspiracy theories on greed mixed up with the concept of a police state. The fact that not a single media publication has been shut down is proof that this isn't a police state, and I will happily bet that in the next 10, 20, 100 years life will go on much the same.

And "indoctrination"? "Wake up"? "Mindcontrol"? "The Elites"? Next time don't use a load of insane conspiracy theorists' cliches if you want to make your argumemt seem valid.

 

[GWarface]

Well, maybe you should start to wear a tin-foil hat.. The Elites mindcontrol and indoctrination has defo worked on you..
You see, where the countries you mention are direct dictatorships, most western countries are dictatorships disguised as democracies..

People in the western world knows what a direct dictatorship looks like, therefore the Elites has to use indirect and "stealthy" use of power, hence why many people are oblivious to what is going on around them..

Wake up and smell the ashes my friend.. If you honestly think that in the last thousands of years, our society is the only one without power hungry sociopaths at the top, then you are in for a real suprise the next 10-20 years..

History repeats itself.. And this is not an attack on the US, not at all.. It goes on around the globe and has strong roots in England, wich sadly enough, is where you live..

Smile and wave to the cameras for me..

You seem to have some half-baked conspiracy theories on greed mixed up with the concept of a police state. The fact that not a single media publication has been shut down is proof that this isn't a police state, and I will happily bet that in the next 10, 20, 100 years life will go on much the same.

And "indoctrination"? "Wake up"? "Mindcontrol"? "The Elites"? Next time don't use a load of insane conspiracy theorists' cliches if you want to make your argumemt seem valid.

I wont argue with you over this, you have your right to form your own opinion..
But i urge you to look at infowars.com and prisonplanet.tv if you want to hear about all this stuff that happends all around the world..

Generaly, ditch all forms of mainstream media and get your news from free media websites, there is plenty to choose from and they arent owned by the Elites, as for an example Reuters News Agency is.. Wich renders your "media publication fact" invalid, as there is no reason to shut down what you own and what works perfectly to zombify the public...

This is not an attack on you as a person, i hope you dont feel it like that.. But it is my duty as a citizen of this world to inform you about what happends behind the scene...

So you got a choice... The blue pill or the red pill.. I hope you, and others, will do the right thing..

Edit: oh and btw.. You might have misunderstood me about the US being a police state.. My first comment about that was just to make a statement about what way our society is going.. The US and the rest of the western world is not a complete police state YET.. But its closer than you think..

 

[Brandon237]

After reading the second two links, this makes more sense, although I still do not see why lethal force was needed.

You not understand self-defense? You know vehicles are considered lethal weapons when trying to run over a person on foot.

In taking self-defence courses for most of my life, I have learnt time and again that incapacitation is better than murder, and injury is better than death. Especially if it is law enforcement, this should be upheld. At least shoot somewhere where you know they could survive, and what happened to shooting out tires??? If the man could drive towards them, and no mention of tire shooting-out was in present in any of the links, then it is safe to assume that it did not happen. And police getting straight out of their vehicles to apprehend someone in a vehicle capable of movement driven by someone who is suicidal? Plain stupid. They have megaphones, and if the simply locked him in place with their vehicles and didn't get out until it was safe like sane people would do... stupid.

Yes, in that situation there was reason to shoot, but that situation should not have come up. Full stop. The police's dealing of it was not very good. They are law enforcement, they should be able to avoid these sorts of problems.

I'm just saying the cops are human, and Salt Lake City probably doesn't train its police officers for disabling vehicles driven by suicidal people because it doesn't come up that often. So we could play shoulda-woulda-coulda all day.

The cops could have not killed him and been safe themselves, the cops should have been able to avoid firing any more than warning shots and a more level headed bunch of them would have avoided this unfortunate incident. And disabling vehicles of drunks/ suicidal/ psychopathic/ infuriated drivers is all very similar, and between those four I'm sure there are enough cases.

 

[bdcjacko]

After reading the second two links, this makes more sense, although I still do not see why lethal force was needed.

You not understand self-defense? You know vehicles are considered lethal weapons when trying to run over a person on foot.

In taking self-defence courses for most of my life, I have learnt time and again that incapacitation is better than murder, and injury is better than death. Especially if it is law enforcement, this should be upheld. At least shoot somewhere where you know they could survive, and what happened to shooting out tires??? If the man could drive towards them, and no mention of tire shooting-out was in present in any of the links, then it is safe to assume that it did not happen. And police getting straight out of their vehicles to apprehend someone in a vehicle capable of movement driven by someone who is suicidal? Plain stupid. They have megaphones, and if the simply locked him in place with their vehicles and didn't get out until it was safe like sane people would do... stupid.

Yes, in that situation there was reason to shoot, but that situation should not have come up. Full stop. The police's dealing of it was not very good. They are law enforcement, they should be able to avoid these sorts of problems.

I'm just saying the cops are human, and Salt Lake City probably doesn't train its police officers for disabling vehicles driven by suicidal people because it doesn't come up that often. So we could play shoulda-woulda-coulda all day.

The cops could have not killed him and been safe themselves, the cops should have been able to avoid firing any more than warning shots and a more level headed bunch of them would have avoided this unfortunate incident. And disabling vehicles of drunks/ suicidal/ psychopathic/ infuriated drivers is all very similar, and between those four I'm sure there are enough cases.

gotcha, you think cops are evil.

 

[Brandon237]

After reading the second two links, this makes more sense, although I still do not see why lethal force was needed.

You not understand self-defense? You know vehicles are considered lethal weapons when trying to run over a person on foot.

In taking self-defence courses for most of my life, I have learnt time and again that incapacitation is better than murder, and injury is better than death. Especially if it is law enforcement, this should be upheld. At least shoot somewhere where you know they could survive, and what happened to shooting out tires??? If the man could drive towards them, and no mention of tire shooting-out was in present in any of the links, then it is safe to assume that it did not happen. And police getting straight out of their vehicles to apprehend someone in a vehicle capable of movement driven by someone who is suicidal? Plain stupid. They have megaphones, and if the simply locked him in place with their vehicles and didn't get out until it was safe like sane people would do... stupid.

Yes, in that situation there was reason to shoot, but that situation should not have come up. Full stop. The police's dealing of it was not very good. They are law enforcement, they should be able to avoid these sorts of problems.

I'm just saying the cops are human, and Salt Lake City probably doesn't train its police officers for disabling vehicles driven by suicidal people because it doesn't come up that often. So we could play shoulda-woulda-coulda all day.

The cops could have not killed him and been safe themselves, the cops should have been able to avoid firing any more than warning shots and a more level headed bunch of them would have avoided this unfortunate incident. And disabling vehicles of drunks/ suicidal/ psychopathic/ infuriated drivers is all very similar, and between those four I'm sure there are enough cases.

gotcha, you think cops are evil.

And you come to this conclusion how? I am only implying that either the police force didn't give them training for any of the four above mentioned cases or that they were not very level-headed or both. No mention of evil, or of any other cops.

Although in this country (continent in fact) 99% (at least) of cops are greedy bastards.

Are you a cop yourself, or is it a family member/ friend? Don't get insulted by what I'm saying about another group of cops if so. Every organisation and profession has its bad or just less competent members.

 

[bdcjacko]

After reading the second two links, this makes more sense, although I still do not see why lethal force was needed.

You not understand self-defense? You know vehicles are considered lethal weapons when trying to run over a person on foot.

In taking self-defence courses for most of my life, I have learnt time and again that incapacitation is better than murder, and injury is better than death. Especially if it is law enforcement, this should be upheld. At least shoot somewhere where you know they could survive, and what happened to shooting out tires??? If the man could drive towards them, and no mention of tire shooting-out was in present in any of the links, then it is safe to assume that it did not happen. And police getting straight out of their vehicles to apprehend someone in a vehicle capable of movement driven by someone who is suicidal? Plain stupid. They have megaphones, and if the simply locked him in place with their vehicles and didn't get out until it was safe like sane people would do... stupid.

Yes, in that situation there was reason to shoot, but that situation should not have come up. Full stop. The police's dealing of it was not very good. They are law enforcement, they should be able to avoid these sorts of problems.

I'm just saying the cops are human, and Salt Lake City probably doesn't train its police officers for disabling vehicles driven by suicidal people because it doesn't come up that often. So we could play shoulda-woulda-coulda all day.

The cops could have not killed him and been safe themselves, the cops should have been able to avoid firing any more than warning shots and a more level headed bunch of them would have avoided this unfortunate incident. And disabling vehicles of drunks/ suicidal/ psychopathic/ infuriated drivers is all very similar, and between those four I'm sure there are enough cases.

gotcha, you think cops are evil.

And you come to this conclusion how? I am only implying that either the police force didn't give them training for any of the four above mentioned cases or that they were not very level-headed or both. No mention of evil, or of any other cops.

Although in this country (continent in fact) 99% (at least) of cops are greedy bastards.

Are you a cop yourself, or is it a family member/ friend? Don't get insulted by what I'm saying about another group of cops if so. Every organisation and profession has its bad or just less competent members.

gotcha, and when some figures you out, you have to act like a spaz. A cop hating spaz.