PAX 2011: SOL: Exodus Resurrects "Dead" Space Combat Sims

[Greg Tito]

Innovation is great and all...But this game shows several steps backwards instead of any innovation.

Actually, the only thing that hes talked about that shows any attempt at innovation for the genre is destructo stations... And even that was done in Blazing Angels.

So if they are cutting staples from the genre that makes it interesting, my guess is to simplify it for console players...kinda hard to manage all that on a lil game pad, where is all the innovation that is supposed to replace it?

I think it could have been done on the D-pad, but the design went in a different direction, as I said. Where he decided to concentrate was more interaction with the objects in space, the hacking mechanic I mentioned is new to this genre and scanning enemy ships to find weak points looks pretty fun right now.

And I wouldn't be so quick as to judge a game from a few screenshots and a trailer (did you see the trailer? I added it to the post). Christ, they aren't even finished yet with developing the game, cut the guy some slack.

Greg

 

[karoliso]

Eeh, that's not one fact of our reality, it is a large portion of fundamental physics. This isn't science fiction, it's fictional science. It's one thing to use some theoretical part of science (the idea of teleportation, say) and use that to create fiction (say, The Fly)-- however just making some random "what if" scenario and putting it in space doesn't really make it science fiction. Not to me at least. In the words of Ursula K Le Guin, there's some gadget in a sci-fi story, something (or some circumstance) that may well do "magic"-- but does so in a specific context of science as we know it.

Our sun suddenly going supernova is just as non-sensical as the Earth suddenly becoming flat. There's no scientific context.

I say call it a fantasy game, to avoid offending old science geezers like me.

I guess it's best to call it science fantasy then since it looks like it has more in common with Star Wars as opposed to Star Trek.

I think it could have been done on the D-pad, but the design went in a different direction, as I said. Where he decided to concentrate was more interaction with the objects in space, the hacking mechanic I mentioned is new to this genre and scanning enemy ships to find weak points looks pretty fun right now.

And I wouldn't be so quick as to judge a game from a few screenshots and a trailer (did you see the trailer? I added it to the post). Christ, they aren't even finished yet with developing the game, cut the guy some slack.

Greg

Isn't it better to point out every single flaw up front so it can be fixed before the game is finished? That is if the devs even read feedback.

And scanning has been done by Star Trek Online and I'm sure by other games before that. I also have this feeling from the trailer that it doesn't invoke the awe you should feel while flying a space vessel. Traversing an environment that is hostile to human life in every way possible. It should feel frightening and exciting at the same time. A stylistic approach to visuals isn't going to do that. Eh, just feels like the game will "burn out" too fast by being too arcadey.

 

[raankh]

Eeh, that's not one fact of our reality, it is a large portion of fundamental physics. This isn't science fiction, it's fictional science. It's one thing to use some theoretical part of science (the idea of teleportation, say) and use that to create fiction (say, The Fly)-- however just making some random "what if" scenario and putting it in space doesn't really make it science fiction. Not to me at least. In the words of Ursula K Le Guin, there's some gadget in a sci-fi story, something (or some circumstance) that may well do "magic"-- but does so in a specific context of science as we know it.

Our sun suddenly going supernova is just as non-sensical as the Earth suddenly becoming flat. There's no scientific context.

I say call it a fantasy game, to avoid offending old science geezers like me.

I guess it's best to call it science fantasy then since it looks like it has more in common with Star Wars as opposed to Star Trek.

Too complicated. I invoke Ockham's Razor. Fantasy game.

 

[bombadilillo]

I still want this type of game with the WiiU controller interface. I want the sheilds/engines/weapons on sliders on the touch screen with other "nobs" and information. That would be awesome.

Sounds like this game is a step in the right direction, but more arcady then slight sim.

I do dig the BSG real space momentum and machine gun talk though. Sounds great. I better not hear and ships fly by me then...

 

[Darth Sea Bass]

Wow 2 pages and only one person mentions the X series WTF people!

 

[Mr.Gompers]

So..... still no capital ships for the player?

 

[Twad]

So..... still no capital ships for the player?

Pretty much what i had in mind.

Leave the space-fighters to the kids and hollywood.
Gimme a capital ship anyday, as long as it isnt a crippled one-trick pony that must fight at point-blank range 'cuz its the idea of a cool space battle for a 5-years old.

 

[bombadilillo]

So..... still no capital ships for the player?

Pretty much what i had in mind.

Leave the space-fighters to the kids and hollywood.
Gimme a capital ship anyday, as long as it isnt a crippled one-trick pony that must fight at point-blank range 'cuz its the idea of a cool space battle for a 5-years old.

A capital ship sounds boring. To slow and...automated? You only have a few commands and your "crew" does all the stuff. Give me a fighter. Or multiple capital ship control to stratigize around. Dog fighting in a capital ship will come up short.

 

[Mr.Gompers]

So..... still no capital ships for the player?

Pretty much what i had in mind.

Leave the space-fighters to the kids and hollywood.
Gimme a capital ship anyday, as long as it isnt a crippled one-trick pony that must fight at point-blank range 'cuz its the idea of a cool space battle for a 5-years old.

A capital ship sounds boring. To slow and...automated? You only have a few commands and your "crew" does all the stuff. Give me a fighter. Or multiple capital ship control to stratigize around. Dog fighting in a capital ship will come up short.

Don't see why we can't have both. I'll be more than happy with merely flying the ship and firing the guns.

 

[bombadilillo]

So..... still no capital ships for the player?

Pretty much what i had in mind.

Leave the space-fighters to the kids and hollywood.
Gimme a capital ship anyday, as long as it isnt a crippled one-trick pony that must fight at point-blank range 'cuz its the idea of a cool space battle for a 5-years old.

A capital ship sounds boring. To slow and...automated? You only have a few commands and your "crew" does all the stuff. Give me a fighter. Or multiple capital ship control to stratigize around. Dog fighting in a capital ship will come up short.

Don't see why we can't have both. I'll be more than happy with merely flying the ship and firing the guns.

I will saw the X-wing books had great battles with Star Destroyers and their strategies. For instance they roll strategicly to present fresh sheilds and weapons. But again it would be...

1. Fly at baddies
2. Issue "Shoot stuff command"
3. Wait.

Maybe if you could jump to different ships and control them. But 1 capital ship. There isnt enough for a commander of one to do for a game setting imo

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

You want to know why people don't play Space Sims any more? It's because jousting is boring, which is what space combat is.

 

[C95J]

I should really read the titles more closely. I came here expecting an article related to Dead Space

 

[TheMadTypist]

Second game I ever played? X-wing. Third? Tie Fighter. Fourth? X-wing alliance.

TAKE MY MONEY. TAKE IT ALLL!

 

[Nashidar]

I've been wanting a good space combat sim for ages. Played the Wing Commander Series, X-Wing Series, Freespace 1/2, Privateer, Freelancer, Starlancer, the list goes on.

I do not think a good game in this genre needs the required complexity some people are talking about.

Whilst you could've used the whole damn keyboard and all the buttons on your joystick - I never did. All I did was pretty much map what I used most on my Sidewinder Precision Pro.

I would be interested to see how this game develops and what kind of reviews it gets.

I hope this game does well.

Off topic: Can we also get a decent Adventure game again? Something like Grim Fandango (so very little or no FPS elements) that actually requires a brain to play and has a great story to it?

 

[samsonguy920]

At first I was, 'Space simulator? EXCELLENT!' But then I was, 'Wait a lightminute...'

On the Sun thing, I thought of it as a science-fiction story that tweaks just one fact of our reality, this one asking what would happen if our sun would go supernova sooner than 10,000 years.

Greg

Sounds like somebody has been watching too much Syfy, frankly. This kind of thing pushes the science fiction element straight into just silly fantasy.
Why not base the story on a colony in another solar system, with a star that not only could go supernova but it is actually discovered it will? Even with the help of fanatical nutjobs.

Spoiler: Speaking of nutjobs who destroy suns...

This is 300 years in the future we are talking about. Even without FTL travel it is possible to have a colony on another system in that time.
Otherwise the story presents itself as too loose to hold onto and will lose a lot of support. I remember a recent space shooter that got lazy in its development. *cough*Darkstar One [http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/darkstar_one]*cough*.
I like the guy's goals, but this current project had best be coming with a lot of surprises to get enough attention so he can follow up with 'GTA. in Spaaaaccce!'
Otherwise, if this flops, it is another hundred steps in the wrong direction for a genre that deserves more attention these days.

 

[Vankraken]

A good space sim needs the following.
1. Ways to make money without being forced to play the trader until you can buy better stuff (mercenary or transport/courier jobs need to pay well enough to be worth while as a method of income instead of something that you only take because it happens to be going to the same place your trade route would take you.)
2. Some sort of balance in combat that lets fighters, corvette, and capital ship classes be effective instead of fighters just being 100% outclassed by bigger craft. Fighters armed with bombs need to be effective against capital ships.
3. The ability to eventually buy and control capital ships.
4. An economic system that is easy to learn but still complex. (also breaking the market values of stuff through overselling should be very hard if not impossible outside of using a fleet of trade corvettes or capital ship size trading craft.)
5. The option for reliable and easy to use ship automation (in cases of having multiple ships under your command).
6. Epic space battles between capital ships and there fighter and corvette escorts. (pref if you had missions working as a mercenary for a military or private group and helped engage in these cap ship vs cap ship space battles instead of having to buy your own capital ship and a dozen fighters in order to have an epic space battle.)
7. It must have a balance between managing your business and having ways to jump in and have fun. (a solid way to do the fun part this is through the randomly generated missions.)

 

[Art Axiv]

I don't want to sound like a smug, but the problem with this is that.. it's neither X-Wing or Wing Commander. I always have a lot of issues getting used to a new IP, but I'll give it a spin.

 

[cieply]

Calling Freespace small

Greg, someone shoud hit ya for this.

It was one of the best and most popular space sims od all time. Sometimes I wonder who writes for the escapist.

 

[PingoBlack]

This genre died ... and now I know why.
Fans are even worse than MMO fans!

People, learn to live and let live! Seriously.

Fans, learn that not one single thing from the past was the end of it all. Developers, learn not to trash talk. And most of all, recall that even Arthur C. Clarke wrote a book in which sun goes prematurely nova, Songs of Distant Earth.

IMO, it's nice to see another indy game go for a genre that is a bit lean at the time, I had great fun with Bastion. Indy games don't have to get it perfect, they just have to get it right.

 

[Phishfood]

A good space sim needs the following.
1. Ways to make money without being forced to play the trader until you can buy better stuff (mercenary or transport/courier jobs need to pay well enough to be worth while as a method of income instead of something that you only take because it happens to be going to the same place your trade route would take you.)
2. Some sort of balance in combat that lets fighters, corvette, and capital ship classes be effective instead of fighters just being 100% outclassed by bigger craft. Fighters armed with bombs need to be effective against capital ships.
3. The ability to eventually buy and control capital ships.
4. An economic system that is easy to learn but still complex. (also breaking the market values of stuff through overselling should be very hard if not impossible outside of using a fleet of trade corvettes or capital ship size trading craft.)
5. The option for reliable and easy to use ship automation (in cases of having multiple ships under your command).
6. Epic space battles between capital ships and there fighter and corvette escorts. (pref if you had missions working as a mercenary for a military or private group and helped engage in these cap ship vs cap ship space battles instead of having to buy your own capital ship and a dozen fighters in order to have an epic space battle.)
7. It must have a balance between managing your business and having ways to jump in and have fun. (a solid way to do the fun part this is through the randomly generated missions.)

Sooooo, take what X did and do the opposite?

I kind of enjoyed X, own several...but it just wasn't quite there. The artifical economy, the odd difficulty curve that had pirates in medium fighters firing capital weapons at me. The fact that paying for a capital ship was only really feasable with either a week of hard trading and station building or a cheat.

OT:
This game isn't doing it for me. What is it? GTA in space? is it more like X?
If its "open" and you can complete a mission any way you like, do you have a finite number of ships that dwindle? I mean, I hate games where you can fuck up and it only tells you 5 levels later.

If you can build new ships then you need an economy of some kind.

Or you could have neither and each mission is disconencted, which would be more true to GTA.

The space combat looks nice enough, the "blowing a hole in the ship and flying in" looks great, if its procedural. If its horribly scripted meh.

I guess the bottom line is I'm confused about what this game wants to be. Its nothing like eve, sounds like its going to play nothing like x in the grand scheme, so I'm a bit lost.