PAX East 2010: PC Gaming Is In Partially Vegetative State

Whispering Death

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PC gaming is dead?

Wow, Valve Software must be in deep financial trouble, huh? And that Starcraft 2 game must be projected to lose a ton of money! Oh... wait...

But I do think piracy has really hurt the platform. I mean, look at Crysis. That is a game that should have made money hand-over-fist but it underperformed financial expectations and was also one of the most pirated games of all time.

Meanwhile, Modern Warfare 2, a game that is pretty average by PC gaming shooter standards, made a boat-load of money on consoles where EVERYONE WHO WANTED TO PLAY IT IT ACTUALLY PAID FOR IT.
 

koichan

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Sh0ckFyre said:
You see, DRM is only bad if its implemented wrong. Games that restrict you from installing on as many PC's as you wish, CD-Keys, that's all fine. Maintaining a CONSTANT internet connection is fucking retarded. Its meant to stop piracy, something that is MUCH harder to do on a console. I think I speak for the common working man when I say I earn my money and happily buy my multimedia products with the satisfaction they'll actually WORK when I install them on my computer.
Have to heavily disagree there, limited installs is by far one of the worst possible DRM methods (if not the worst IMHO) certainly equal to required internet connections at least.

The amount of installs it gives you only dictates how long it'll take you to screw you over.
For instance my spore disc was essentially bricked by limited installs the second day i had it. whilst the 15 instals bioshock2 has for instance would take longer to impact, it doesn't stop it happening.

DRM does far more to promote piracy than it does prevent it, most gamers agree [http://kotaku.com/5500495/kotaku-census-2010-the-results-in-full]:
 

Kollega

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Holy crap, "Abercrombie" is a real name?! Wow. Just wow. And i thought that "Sylvester" was rare. Well, c'est la vie, strange things happen.

***

Now that my blown-off socks have been returned onto my feet: PC gaming can only die if those corporate idiots and those pirating idiots will keep trying to murder it. I mean seriously, all this clunky DRM is a massive hindrance which does not really help, and neither side is going to give up.

As for graphics... meh. Is it even a valid field of competition these days? It's, to quote, "twenty-first-fucking-century", i think that average PC is about as powerful as current-gen consoles. It depends less on hardware and more on how much time and money are sunk into the game - you can render nostril hair if you want, but creating such level of detail requires improbable amount of resources.

Then there's whole "open-sourceness" issue, which i think evens out nicely. There's not too much standards, but not much limitations either.

And we have indie games, hurr hurr! Buuuut... without big-budget titles, they will also get kinda boring sooner or later. Sometimes you just want to play a game that is a flawless example of existing genre polished to mirror shine.

LunaticFringe said:
My how I miss the PC gaming Renaissance (to me that was the years between 1996-2004). But I have a solution to these problems: market to Eastern Europe. Eastern Europe pretty much has a PC monopoly, very few people buy consoles, and many games are directly designed only for PC or just to be ported to consoles. The STALKER series, Cryostatus, Men of War, and Metro 2033 are all titles meant for PC first, they're going through their Renaissance a little late, but it's good to still new, inventive PC games being created.
Would it even work? People here have that combination - mentality plus lack of disposable income - which lends itself to piracy very well. Hell, there are still actual software pirates getting some money that way (as opposed to torrents operating for free).
 

CK76

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PC gaming will always for me being secondary behind consoles and handheld, but it'll always be there. Some games simply put are far superior with a mouse and keyboard, while others better with a controller. I'd never want to play Dragon Age on console or FIFA on PC.
 

Abedeus

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Yeaaah, explains why the newest PCs are more powerful than consoles and games like Dragon Age, Battlefield BC2, Mass Effect 2 and even the insulting Assassin's Creed 2 (with a 2.4 user score on Metacritics) sell extremely well.

The first three won over by offering superior versions of the games. Take a little more effort when porting or making a game, you'll get the effects you want and you'll shut up about "vegetative state" bullcrap.

CK76 said:
PC gaming will always for me being secondary behind consoles and handheld, but it'll always be there. Some games simply put are far superior with a mouse and keyboard, while others better with a controller. I'd never want to play Dragon Age on console or FIFA on PC.
You do know that you CAN use a pad on a PC to play FIFA? And that FIFA has been on the PC since... the beginning?
 

RhombusHatesYou

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Whispering Death said:
Meanwhile, Modern Warfare 2, a game that is pretty average by PC gaming shooter standards, made a boat-load of money on consoles where EVERYONE WHO WANTED TO PLAY IT IT ACTUALLY PAID FOR IT.
Hahaha... No they didn't. In fact, the 360 version was available on torrents before the PC version was.
 

Kollega

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LunaticFringe said:
Well pirates will continue to exist no matter what publishers try to use to stop them, even if hardcore legislation is established it'll continue behind closed doors in different forms. Although it's true that the pirating mentality could be quite common, it's not like it isn't present here either (I know a gamer who hasn't bought a PC game since 2003, for example). I find that mentality (plus the lack of income haha) is quite present in Canadian society (especially the lower classes) as well (our piracy laws probably have something to do with that). But I think that developing your markets in areas where the PC is incredibly popular is a good way to help encourage an stagnating business. It's something that's worth trying anyway, Russian PC games often come with very little DRM (at least from what I've seen) and they still make a good profit out of it so you never know.
Wait, Canada? I remember that one article here on the Escapist dealing with Canadian piracy. Yeah right. I think it's still a bit lower than here (because "lower classes" of society are much more wide), but you seem to understand a situation. You have a point about profit, maybe there's really something to build on here.
 

Woodsey

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Whispering Death said:
Meanwhile, Modern Warfare 2, a game that is pretty average by PC gaming shooter standards, made a boat-load of money on consoles where EVERYONE WHO WANTED TO PLAY IT IT ACTUALLY PAID FOR IT.
You're kidding right?

Just because publishers moan about pirating on the PC doesn't mean there isn't a shit load of it on consoles - especially with MW2.
 

Abedeus

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Whispering Death said:
Meanwhile, Modern Warfare 2, a game that is pretty average by PC gaming shooter standards, made a boat-load of money on consoles where EVERYONE WHO WANTED TO PLAY IT IT ACTUALLY PAID FOR IT.
Except that it was available on the consoles, like person above me said, and I do believe it's because PC gamers are not as stupid as all those developers think.

We won't just submit to stupid decisions made by those said developers. Crappy porting? We won't buy. Crappy multiplayer? We'll go find a better one. Crappy changes? We'll find a better game.

It's not like we're low on online, FPS, strategy games or RPGs.
 

Keivz

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Abedeus said:
Yeaaah, explains why the newest PCs are more powerful than consoles and games like Dragon Age, Battlefield BC2, Mass Effect 2 and even the insulting Assassin's Creed 2 (with a 2.4 user score on Metacritics) sell extremely well.

The first three won over by offering superior versions of the games. Take a little more effort when porting or making a game, you'll get the effects you want and you'll shut up about "vegetative state" bullcrap.

CK76 said:
PC gaming will always for me being secondary behind consoles and handheld, but it'll always be there. Some games simply put are far superior with a mouse and keyboard, while others better with a controller. I'd never want to play Dragon Age on console or FIFA on PC.
You do know that you CAN use a pad on a PC to play FIFA? And that FIFA has been on the PC since... the beginning?
I'm curious, how do you know these games have sold 'extremely well'? Any actual numbers or do you just have a feeling they sold well?

While I'm posting, I'd like to say I bought AC 2 on PC and have been very pleased by it. I hope all PC games from here on out seriously consider implementing it if it can seriously do away with piracy on the PC. Then maybe I could see FFXIII and the like in ultra high rez. One can dream.
 

Gindil

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Greg Tito said:
PAX East 2010: PC Gaming Is In Partially Vegetative State

[img_inline caption="Left to Right: John Abercrombie [Lead Programmer, Irrational Games]

Proponents of PC gaming discussed the challenges of developing on the platform and offered a bleak outlook on its future.

Abercrombie disagreed. "I'm not that's going to be the case, unfortunately. The revenue is just so much higher on the consoles. That's where the money is. If everybody would stop pirating, if everybody would stop doing DRM, we'd see a lot more PC games sold."

Abercrombie summed it all up nicely: "PC Gaming isn't dead. It's just in a partially vegetative state."


Permalink
John Abercrombie
Bioshock [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/97748-BioShock-2-DRM-Getting-Scaled-Back]
Yeah, he lost his ability to convince me it was worth it to play Bioshock. I bought it on Steam and guess what? Doesn't work for me. But merely pointing a finger at piracy isn't going to make a good game better. Seriously, Bioshock did extremely well for a new franchise. What more could they want?
 

Therumancer

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I think part of the problem is that nobody is content with simply making a profit, but everyone wants monster profits. Thus perfectly profitable niche markets are being ignored in pursuit of "teh epix wins". I think the turn around point will be when the huge markets are simply split up so many ways again that developers will turn to niche markets to make a profit since things will be evening out.

The MMORPG thing is a factor, but not because "everyone is playing MMOs, noone is playing single player" most PC gamers do both. When chatting in MMORPGs you'll find that most people also play single player games on the PC, and a really popular PC game will lead to a lot of "OMG, shut up, focus on this game" when people start talking about their single player gaming in mass channels (like Trade in WoW).

What makes MMORPGs a factor is that with most game developers they figure if they are going to put a massive amount of resources and time into developing a game, they figure they might as well make it into an MMO rather than a single player game and hope they hit the "WoW Jackpot" somehow. It's developers aiming ignoring a smaller market for the most part rather than a bigger market actually killing it.

I'll also point out something a bit ironic: an increasing number of people seem to be interested in playing more than one game simultaneously. A lot of raiders and such seem to like playing portables in slow spots, and as odd as it might sound a game being able to multitask well with WoW has been a factor in some word-of mouth suggestions.

Honestly it's a bit surprising to me that we haven't seen any products directly targeted at this trend yet. I look back at things like the "Final Fantasy 8 Chocobo Game" (the real name eludes me) where you could raise a Chocobo in a pocket station game and use it back and forth with the main game, something that was never released in the US. As well as that Pokewalker thing which I think is kind of interesting (though with the death of my pokemon cartridge recently, I'm unlikely to try it anytime soon), and I think that a fortune could be made by someone who say came up with a portable side-game that could link to the PC and have an influance on a game like WoW, say letting you continue to grind/loot/powerlevel/etc... even when you have to go to Aunt Hilda's birthday, spend 2 hours waiting for repairs at a garage, babysitting an oblivious sick relative (sleeping in a hospital or whatever), doctors office waits, and all the other things that people use portables to kill time with. Heck, if someone simply came up with a sidegame online it could be interesting, with say some kind of benefits from playing a Roguelike in the backround or whatever so you can earn some kind of advancement while your guild spends 20 minutes going ultra-drama instead of getting around to the next pull (though thankfully this has not been an issue for me for a while).

Heck, even without any kind of direct game to game interface, simply having a multi-task friendly game that can be run alongside an MMO seems to be a benefit... yet ironically few companies even bother to consider easy multitasking (in any sense) an important design feature.

I guess what I'm saying is that all of the above ideas aside, the bottom line is that the industry just isn't willing to think creatively, or target a niche market for a moderate profit. Almost everyone spends all their effort trying to go toe to toe with WoW and fight for the MMO market without considering how they can work around the edges, or how to exploit markets that are going untapped due to everyone focusing on the big prize.
 

Pendragon9

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Being a PC/Ps3 gamer, it hurtsd to think that the PC will not be out of this state for a while.

Sucks man.
 
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Perhaps if devs stopped making shoddy ports and lumping assloads of DRM onto them that can sometimes cause major problems (the securom on Spore made me need to wipe my entire fucking hard drive) people may be more receptive to PC gaming.

That and taking away things that have been on the PC since the beggining, like dedicated servers, isn't helping at all.
 

Abedeus

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Keivz said:
Abedeus said:
Yeaaah, explains why the newest PCs are more powerful than consoles and games like Dragon Age, Battlefield BC2, Mass Effect 2 and even the insulting Assassin's Creed 2 (with a 2.4 user score on Metacritics) sell extremely well.

The first three won over by offering superior versions of the games. Take a little more effort when porting or making a game, you'll get the effects you want and you'll shut up about "vegetative state" bullcrap.

CK76 said:
PC gaming will always for me being secondary behind consoles and handheld, but it'll always be there. Some games simply put are far superior with a mouse and keyboard, while others better with a controller. I'd never want to play Dragon Age on console or FIFA on PC.
You do know that you CAN use a pad on a PC to play FIFA? And that FIFA has been on the PC since... the beginning?
I'm curious, how do you know these games have sold 'extremely well'? Any actual numbers or do you just have a feeling they sold well?
You mean except for the developer who said few days ago that there are more PC players than all console players put together?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlefield_bad_company_2#Reception

By the end of March 18, the game sold 2.3mln on all consoles. Assuming that PC sold exactly twice as much as either Xbox or PS3, it gives about 1.53 millions. More if you include things like the Squad Pack on Steam, for instance.

Also I'm basing it on the sales in Polish stores. On all consoles, it's a top 1, including PC. Since Assassin's Creed 2 sold well... well, BFBC 2 sold even better. And it's still on top of the Steam sellers, even higher than Torchlight after 75% discount, Just Cause 2, new Command and Conquer or Dragon Age: Awakening.
While I'm posting, I'd like to say I bought AC 2 on PC and have been very pleased by it. I hope all PC games from here on out seriously consider implementing it if it can seriously do away with piracy on the PC. Then maybe I could see FFXIII and the like in ultra high rez. One can dream.
Wait, what? You want a forced, round-the-clock Internet access requirement in all games? And if there is a power outage on the other end of the world, a DDoS attack, they suddenly turn off servers for maintenance, or in 5-6 years they shut down the servers... Not likely? They don't earn as much as Blizzard, they can't afford to keep a game alive for 10 years and make patches for it. Hell, I remember that they STILL haven't patched Assassin's Creed I issues, like the one with lag when riding the horse...