Penn Jillette Speaks Out on RapeLay

Andy Chalk

One Flag, One Fleet, One Cat
Nov 12, 2002
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Penn Jillette Speaks Out on RapeLay

In a recent podcast, Penn Jillette of RapeLay [http://www.pennandteller.com/] because it "normalizes sexual violence."

In a seven-minute YouTube [http://crackle.com/c/Penn_Says#id=2473058&ml=o%3D12%26fpl%3D360812%26fx%3D]), Jillette notes that murder has been a central point of entertainment throughout history, pointing out that many Shakespearean plays feature violence and death, and questions why rape, while a horrible crime, would be the focus of such an uproar while killing is barely worth a PG13 rating. He makes an even more interesting argument when he suggests that blaming and banning the game as a catalyst for rape would "normalize sexual violence" more than the game itself.

"I think that blaming a video game for rape is normalizing violent sexual behavior. What that says is that we are all rapists and that rape is just under the surface of us and all we need is a video game to just push us a little way," he says in the video. "What blaming the video game does is it shows compassion for the rapist. It shows understanding. At some level, in some small amount, it says, 'It's not really the rapist's fault; it's society's fault for putting this stuff out here'."

While best known as the big, talking half of the Penn & Teller comedy magic team, Jillette is also an outspoken atheist and libertarian, views that regularly come to the fore in the duo's Showtime documentary series Penn & Teller: Bulls--t! [http://www.sho.com/site/ptbs/home.do]

via: GamePolitics [http://www.gamepolitics.com/2009/05/29/penn-jillette-argues-against-rapelay-ban]


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Onyx Oblivion

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Sep 9, 2008
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He's right about murder being normalized. No one even shrugs at murder scenes in movies/games.

Murder is a worse crime than rape, after all.
 

Rigs83

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Feb 10, 2009
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I respect Mr. Jillette opinions but I can't find myself feeling sympathy for the developers of Rapeplay. Rape is the oldest form of terror and control used by dictators, criminals, the psychotic and invaders to terrify a populace for centuries the days of hunter-gatherers in Africa and Eurasia into the 21st century in war zones like Iraq and Afghanistan and Darfur.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/28/kentucky.iraq.murder/index.html?iref=newssearch
and
http://www.rainn.org/

To see what I mean.
 

brabz

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Jan 3, 2008
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Penn as always an articulate argument for his views. Bullshit! is a great show and himself and Teller are both great at making their points through an intelligent and entertaining show.

To the poster above: I don't think Penn has any sympathy towards a company trying to make money off of it, only their right to pursue it as a source of entertainment and artistic medium. He says several times throughout the interview that he's not in support of rape and trying to use this as an excuse to normalize it is equally wrong. Most people know it's an atrocity perpetrated throughout history, but that kind of misses the point of his argument.
 

cobrausn

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Dec 10, 2008
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Onyx Oblivion said:
Murder is a worse crime than rape, after all.
Is it really? I was unaware there was some overarching quantification to crime that made this always true.

I like how this tool likes to make no difference between killing and murder, using the words interchangeably. There is a bit of a difference, last I checked, and under some circumstances the killing of another human being is seen as necessary.

I have yet to ever see a circumstance where any rape could be called a 'necessary' act. Ever.
 

sheic99

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Oct 15, 2008
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Thank god for intelligent people. Thank you for saying what I wanted to say.
 

sisterblues

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May 29, 2009
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Somehow I cannot respect someone who condones the use of inter-active rape games. Something stinks there and I think it's Mr. Jillette's logic. Rape is often way more heinous crime than murder, just ask the women in DRC if they would rather be gang-raped or killed. You'll get your answer LOUD and clear. This is not censorship, contrary to those who leap to the defense of the piece of lurid vile garbage RapeLay is. It normalizes sexual violence not only against women, but against girls and little virgin girls. Come now. We are in the modern world here. What kind of Cavedweller would enjoy being "entertained" by participating in such disgusting games? If this game involved a pedophile who stalked and raped a father and his two young sons, how long do you think it would have lasted? As you can see, nobody has considered creating a game like that. You might want to think about why that is. And if you have brains, the answer should be obvious. If not, well, wish I could say I feel sorry for you but I wouldn't waste my time. Grow up.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Onyx Oblivion said:
He's right about murder being normalized. No one even shrugs at murder scenes in movies/games.

Murder is a worse crime than rape, after all.
There's a difference.

Murder is a crime directed towards an individual. Having it in books doesn't have the same effect because there is no emotional attachment to the subject usually.

That's why certain scenes (Don Corleone's Shooting in the Godfather for instance, Elias getting killed in Platoon) are disturbing because there is the emotional attachment to them.

Rape is a crime directed towards a victim. There is significantly no emotional attachment to the victim on the part of the criminal, and often no emotional attachment from voyeur (which is what you will be) to the victim.

Why is this a problem? Because we haven't received a realistic interpretation of consensual sex in the media yet. So if you can easily torrent a "How To" in non-consensual sex, what exactly do you think people will learn?
 

Onyx Oblivion

Borderlands Addict. Again.
Sep 9, 2008
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cobrausn said:
Onyx Oblivion said:
Murder is a worse crime than rape, after all.
Is it really? I was unaware there was some overarching quantification to crime that made this always true.

I like how this tool likes to make no difference between killing and murder, using the words interchangeably. There is a bit of a difference, last I checked, and under some circumstances the killing of another human being is seen as necessary.

I have yet to ever see a circumstance where any rape could be called a 'necessary' act. Ever.
Yes, but in such a case, it is known as justifiable homicide. But even those are hotly contested. Often with claims that there is a better way to have handled the situation that would result in the capture of the killed person.

[likely failed attempt at humor]And rape is justified if you are the last man and woman on earth and she refuses to help repopulate.[/likely failed attempt at humor]
 

level250geek

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Jan 8, 2009
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I don't always agree with Jillete, but he is always well spoken and logical. I'm not sure how I feel about his statement here, if I agree or disagree, but he certainly does have a valid point (especially about murder vs. rape as offensive content).
 

asinann

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Apr 28, 2008
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If the "playing this game will create rapists" crowd gets their way, the same argument could be used to ban violent games next.

The_root_of_all_evil said:
Onyx Oblivion said:
He's right about murder being normalized. No one even shrugs at murder scenes in movies/games.

Murder is a worse crime than rape, after all.
There's a difference.

Murder is a crime directed towards an individual. Having it in books doesn't have the same effect because there is no emotional attachment to the subject usually.

That's why certain scenes (Don Corleone's Shooting in the Godfather for instance, Elias getting killed in Platoon) are disturbing because there is the emotional attachment to them.

Rape is a crime directed towards a victim. There is significantly no emotional attachment to the victim on the part of the criminal, and often no emotional attachment from voyeur (which is what you will be) to the victim.

Why is this a problem? Because we haven't received a realistic interpretation of consensual sex in the media yet. So if you can easily torrent a "How To" in non-consensual sex, what exactly do you think people will learn?
The problem is that western women are the ones in this group and while rape is horrible and illegal in MOST countries (most of the middle east blames the woman) this whole mess is more of America forcing it's views and "morals" onto the rest of the world.
 

cobrausn

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Dec 10, 2008
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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Because we haven't received a realistic interpretation of consensual sex in the media yet.
Um, what?

I can think of quite a few games that throw sex scenes in to their games, pretty much all of it consensual, and most of it from Bioware. I can think of quite a few games involving doing hookers (which is also 'consensual'), most of it from Rockstar.

Having said that, I don't know what you quantify as 'realistic'.
 

kwdav

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Apr 28, 2009
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wait a second people are going crazy all of a sudden about this game wasnt there a movie in which a girl gets raped and there was no problem with it at all.

last house on the left i think or somewhere along those lines. not that i condone this game but how can something be shown in tv shows and films and be acceptable but not in any other media form.

besides it was only meant for japanese use, and rape and other sexual things are quite a big part of japanese culture.
 

sisterblues

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May 29, 2009
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Hello? Can't you read? This is an international group, with an international policy board, working with Japanese partners on this campaign. If you are interested in getting your facts straight, you might want to read the relevant information on their website instead up jumping up and down and whining like little kids whose candy is going to be taken away. You can say that murder is worse than rape all you want and it won't make it true. Matter of fact it shouldn't be surprising that men would think that - another way that western society has normalized sexual violence and exploitation. It's no better than the cultures that consider women as chattel. It's all on the same continuum. You better hope it never happens to you or anyone you love, or any child of yours. Rape I mean. Sexual violence of any kind is the worst act humankind has come up with to date.
 

sisterblues

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May 29, 2009
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Hey genius...this is an INTER-ACTIVE rape game. Quite a bit different from watching something on a movie screen. Use your head.
 

wrshamilton

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Aug 30, 2007
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I think Jillete in general is around half full of himself and half full of shit, but there's at least a little something to this, and the comment doesn't seem mean-spirited.

One possible difference between the two crimes is that there are surviving victims of rape and sexual assault for whom exposure to these kinds of things can re-ignite trauma.

But I share the wish that murder were taken more seriously, and doubt that much is ever accomplished through banning things. Which doesn't mean I think it's especially appropriate for mainstream retailers to stock those kinds of products, but I guess it's difficult for me to feel too much of anything about mainstream retailers.