Penn Jillette Speaks Out on RapeLay

[Ghostkai]

Being murdered doesn't leave you horrifically traumatised.

Not to downplay the impact of rape but I suspect that suffering an untimely, violent death at the hands of another person is pretty traumatic.

Difference being you don't remember it, because your dead. Vastly different to being traumatised for life. (Especially if your a 8 year old japanese girl)

 

[savandicus]

At sisterblues - You might want to take a breath and read what your writing before you post it, your being rather insulting of other peoples opinions. Debating peoples opinions = Good, Insulting peoples opinions = bad.

On topic - I think that a game like this could probably go either way for some people, giving someone an outlet for their desire and thus stopping them from doing it, or feeding their desire and making them more likely to do it.

However i think comparisons to war games are weak at best due to your vunerability in war games, you die an aweful lot which removes you from the mindset that this is you running around in 1945 single handedly winning the war. Very rarely is any game asking you to murder someone either, 99.9% of the time its self defense.

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

Murder is a worse crime than rape, after all.

May I ask why? I fail to understand your point of view.

Well, personally, I'd rather suffer extreme mental anguish than be dead. But other's opinions of which fate is worse may differ.

You can overcome psychological trauma with help, but you can't come back from being murdered.

Do you speak from personal experience? Personal experience of being raped?

No. But do you, either? Are you speaking from personal experience of being murdered or raped?

We need the opinions of rape victims and some zombies (murder victims) if an actual answer to this issue is to ever be reached.

 

[Abedeus]

Murder is a worse crime than rape, after all.

May I ask why? I fail to understand your point of view.

Well, personally, I'd rather suffer extreme mental anguish than be dead. But other's opinions of which fate is worse may differ.

You can overcome psychological trauma with help, but you can't come back from being murdered.

If you are dead, why do you care?

Rape hurts for the whole life. You might never recover from the trauma. Many women don't. EVER. Can you imagine it? Your whole social life, private life, sex life and basically... just your life is screwed up because of one animal that couldn't control his primal urges.

It especially is a problem if the victim knows who the rapist is and vice versa - they are afraid of reporting him or ashamed of it, since they know he will eventually be released from prison. And he'll be back and the nightmare will return again.


Imagine your worst nightmare. Something that scares you shitless and makes you wake up screaming at night. Now imagine that someone's worst nightmare is the moment of rape. Only with one exception - it was for real, and every time you dream about it, you remember everything again.

 

[savandicus]

Still not getting it Einstein. Nice language, by the way. Shows your intelligence.

You joined for this particular topic and continue to lambast the board for having their own opinions. They're not your own, and you have to speak down and act as though we're all cretins?

Here's an oldie, but a goodie: "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

Try making your points without name-calling or being rude, it goes a lot further.

you should take your own advice pal. nice double standard

Lol you realise that his post was advice not an insult, he's not insulting your opinion or intelligence, he's asking that you be polite.

 

[Nazrel]

Thats why the 2nd ammendment exists. The Founding Fathers realized corruption could come further down the road and really didn't expect democracy to work, so they gave the citizens the right to bear arms so they could overthrow a tyrranical government if it came to it. Obviously doing things through due process is better, but after living 8 years under president Bush I wondered once or twice...

Hey I could agree with that. It's not often a government forms itself with the clause in it's founding documents that if it ever fucks up too much to go ahead and take them out. =P

The 2nd amendment exists for the purposes of a well trained militia. Say's so in the amendment itself.

Not so you can take down the government.

It's modern application kind of messed up from it original intent.

 

[ssgt splatter]

He's right. He makes perfect sense to me.

 

[CD-R]

I'll say the same thing about this as I say about all forms of censorship. If it isn't real child pornography or a threat to national security, it shouldn't be censored.

 

[brabz]

Lol you realise that his post was advice not an insult, he's not insulting your opinion or intelligence, he's asking that you be polite.

Thanks for the defense, but it's not worth getting worked up or bothered by. It's just another example of how discussion of ideas over the internet gets railroaded so easily.

 

[chenry]

Why wouldn't we considered rape to be a big deal? Why would you want to normalize that?

 

[joystickjunki3]

I'm happy to see that many more people than I had perceived earlier are not in favor of banning this game.

 

[Andy Chalk]

Difference being you don't remember it, because your dead. Vastly different to being traumatised for life. (Especially if your a 8 year old japanese girl)

Different, sure. Better? Maybe you're willing to sell your life so cheaply. I sure wouldn't be.

In fact, I'd be willing to bet that if you ever were actually raped, you'd be praying the entire time for nothing more than to survive.

 

[asinann]

Hey genius...this is an INTER-ACTIVE rape game. Quite a bit different from watching something on a movie screen. Use your head.

Good job, are you also for the banning of violent games? That's the argument used to try and ban them.

I think they are pretty juvenile and asinine actually, but once you look at the sexual violence that is perpetrated on women all over the world and I mean ALL OVER, it seems hideous and sickening to think that someone would enjoy victimizing a young virgin girl that way, bloodying her, impregnating her. To think that people get their kicks out of that is just too depressing. It's a huge difference from figures shooting at each other and going to war with swords and crap like that. A huge difference. If you think that the killing done in war is murder, and that murder is wrong, then why don't you get your ass out there and protest the wars instead of holing up in your little rooms and play-acting.

No, it isn't.
Both are simulations of the worst of human behaviors.
Both are under a ton of scrutiny for realistic depictions of those behaviors.
The difference is that rape and sex crimes are demonized more in western culture than murder and violent crimes.
Killing someone isn't enough to get you the death penalty from most prosecutors, but should you rape them first (or after for that matter) it become the most heinous crime imaginable.
Ban one type of game for it depictions of something that is wrong, and you can use it as precedent to ban other things.
Murder in all situations is wrong, but you sound like a christian so I'll ignore the hypocrisy.
Rape isn't mentioned in the "ten commandments" but murder is (and I know someone is going to try and say it was mention in adultery and stealing portions, but that's really grasping at straws.)

 

[mrF00bar]

He's right about murder being normalized. No one even shrugs at murder scenes in movies/games.

Murder is a worse crime than rape, after all.

I think that could be debated on.

Anyway I think that he has a very valid point towards this argument, I couldn't say it better myself.

 

[joystickjunki3]

Thats why the 2nd ammendment exists. The Founding Fathers realized corruption could come further down the road and really didn't expect democracy to work, so they gave the citizens the right to bear arms so they could overthrow a tyrranical government if it came to it. Obviously doing things through due process is better, but after living 8 years under president Bush I wondered once or twice...

Hey I could agree with that. It's not often a government forms itself with the clause in it's founding documents that if it ever fucks up too much to go ahead and take them out. =P

The 2nd amendment exists for the purposes of a well trained militia. Say's so in the amendment itself.

Not so you can take down the government.

It's modern application kind of messed up from it original intent.

Well actually it does say somewhere that the people should be able to overthrow the government should the gov't become tyrannical or some such thing, but the Smith Act enacted during the early years of the Cold War somewhat changed that. I personally think it's a bullshit act, though.

 

[sisterblues]

Still not getting it Einstein. Nice language, by the way. Shows your intelligence.

You joined for this particular topic and continue to lambast the board for having their own opinions. They're not your own, and you have to speak down and act as though we're all cretins?

Here's an oldie, but a goodie: "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

Try making your points without name-calling or being rude, it goes a lot further.

you should take your own advice pal. nice double standard

Lol you realise that his post was advice not an insult, he's not insulting your opinion or intelligence, he's asking that you be polite.

Smartypants - I was referring to his original post, to which my post was a reply. Look before you open your gob.

 

[Arrers]

It's certainly a logical argument, raising good points, but the mention either the words "liberal" or "conservative" tends to set off my cynicism alert when listening to people. It just makes the look bias.

 

[sisterblues]

Difference being you don't remember it, because your dead. Vastly different to being traumatised for life. (Especially if your a 8 year old japanese girl)

Different, sure. Better? Maybe you're willing to sell your life so cheaply. I sure wouldn't be.

In fact, I'd be willing to bet that if you ever were actually raped, you'd be praying the entire time for nothing more than to survive.

And maybe you wouldn't. and who are you to say she's selling her life cheaply. You can speak for yourself.

 

[sisterblues]

Hey genius...this is an INTER-ACTIVE rape game. Quite a bit different from watching something on a movie screen. Use your head.

Good job, are you also for the banning of violent games? That's the argument used to try and ban them.

I think they are pretty juvenile and asinine actually, but once you look at the sexual violence that is perpetrated on women all over the world and I mean ALL OVER, it seems hideous and sickening to think that someone would enjoy victimizing a young virgin girl that way, bloodying her, impregnating her. To think that people get their kicks out of that is just too depressing. It's a huge difference from figures shooting at each other and going to war with swords and crap like that. A huge difference. If you think that the killing done in war is murder, and that murder is wrong, then why don't you get your ass out there and protest the wars instead of holing up in your little rooms and play-acting.

No, it isn't.
Both are simulations of the worst of human behaviors.
Both are under a ton of scrutiny for realistic depictions of those behaviors.
The difference is that rape and sex crimes are demonized more in western culture than murder and violent crimes.
Killing someone isn't enough to get you the death penalty from most prosecutors, but should you rape them first (or after for that matter) it become the most heinous crime imaginable.
Ban one type of game for it depictions of something that is wrong, and you can use it as precedent to ban other things.
Murder in all situations is wrong, but you sound like a christian so I'll ignore the hypocrisy.
Rape isn't mentioned in the "ten commandments" but murder is (and I know someone is going to try and say it was mention in adultery and stealing portions, but that's really grasping at straws.)

Oh please. Not a christian, thank God for that. Fundamentalism of any kind is wacko as far as I'm concerned but I do appreciate your tact. I see your point but the Bible and the Ten Commandments were written by men, not God, by the way, and not to be taken seriously by those who do not believe in said god.
So yes, murder in all situations is wrong. So let's stop war then. Let's stop rape and war. How do you propose we do that? I'm sorry, but interactive video games can be fantastic, wonderful learning experiences, they can engage and teach and enlighten when used appropriately. Used inappropriately, which I believe this disgusting piece of crap RapeLay is, just normalizes sexual violence. And the games with murder do the same with murder. If you are picking out a victim, stalking and murdering them Personalizing it, that's one of the things that is so sick about it.

 

[CD-R]

Somehow I cannot respect someone who condones the use of inter-active rape games.

I don't believe he condoned anything.

Something stinks there and I think it's Mr. Jillette's logic.

No that would be your fail strawman arguments. Oh my God! People are being crtitcal of censorship? The horror!

Rape is often way more heinous crime than murder, just ask the women in DRC if they would rather be gang-raped or killed. You'll get your answer LOUD and clear.

What does that have to do with anything? Actually that might be funny where can I do that?

This is not censorship, contrary to those who leap to the defense of the piece of lurid vile garbage RapeLay is.

Main Entry: cen-sor
Function: transitive verb
: to examine (as a publication or film) in order to suppress or delete any contents considered objectionable.

Well Rapelay is being removed do to people like you finding it objectionable. Therefore it's censorship. Dictionarys are usefull tools.

It normalizes sexual violence not only against women, but against girls and little virgin girls. Come now.

Really? It has the power to do that? And here I was thinking it was just a piece of software. Who knew it had the power to alter an entire populations thought processes and moral views. Thats some powerfull stuff yo. /sarcasm. Seriously thats just as stupid an argument as the whole "the human papoloma virus vaccine will encourage more girls to have sex" argument. No it won't. It's a vaccine it's used to prevent virsues. It's not some magical society altering dingus of ultimate power. Neither is Rapelay. Unless you have some data or study to prove Rapelay is a magical society altering dingus of ultimate power, then it shouldn't be censored.

We are in the modern world here. What kind of Cavedweller would enjoy being "entertained" by participating in such disgusting games?

Some of my best friends are cave dwellers, don't be talking trash. What cave dwellers choose to do for entertainment is nobodies buisness but there own, certainly not yours.

If this game involved a pedophile who stalked and raped a father and his two young sons, how long do you think it would have lasted? As you can see, nobody has considered creating a game like that. You might want to think about why that is.

I'm pretty sure someone did. I'm almost certain I saw it on the internet. If not, someone will. Internet's funny like that.

And if you have brains, the answer should be obvious. If not, well, wish I could say I feel sorry for you but I wouldn't waste my time. Grow up.

No U