Philosophy

[Uzigawa]

Why would I want to question truth?

You have to know what truth is in order to question it, and in order to do know what it is, you have to ask yourself philosophical questions. There is no way around it.

why must i know what i question? wouldn't questioning it be the best way to learn of it? think of it like this, does a redneck stay out of politics cause they have no idea about it? hell no, they jump right in and say they're right, maybe the rednecks have the right idea, oh wait forgot about the whole total ignorance, ya, you might have a bit of a point there

 

[Uzigawa]

I need to know if there is still hope in this world, if there are still people out there questioning truth, i want you to put up your favorite Philosophical idea, that you thought up yourself, here is mine to get started

"Love, or what we call Love, is not something that just one word can encompass, it is what we live, it is ourselves, our neighbors and the very air we breath, Love is more than just what we feel when we like a girl or a boy, it is everything." -Eric Lambert (2010)

I'd like to point out that we hav a word that encompasses love ... coincidentally, it's "love". The only issue is that people fail to fully comprehend its meaning, so the fault of it lies with the interpreters not the interpreted.

OT: I don't really like the opinions of other people. I'll look at them, but it isn't about "Oh some smart guy said this" it is more "Some guy, coincidentally smart, said something I agree with ... so I remain unaffected by this person's established beliefs".

If I had to sum up my own philosophy though? "The morals you have in life, the meaning you take from it and the impact you leave on it are all subjective, so don't give a flying excrement what others think, do whatever you believe to be the best action at any given time"

You remind me of a funny story. Once upon a time there was a prince freshly upon marrying age. He lived in a lavish palace, and for this, most of the poor farmers that habited his kingdom resented him for it. Now, the prince could have had any woman he desired, but he had set his eye upon a young peasant lass who worked the farm. The woman laughed at his offers of matrimony, spat in his direction when he came here. She hated the prince like so many others, loathed that he lived in luxury while the rest labored under the cruel sun.

The prince was persistent however, even though each time she repelled his advances. Fed up with all this nonsense, the farm maiden brought herself to the prince's palace one day, to embaress him infront of the lords and ladies in his courts. Oh how she despised the fine woven gold that laced his tapestries and how it danced the light. Oh how she loathed the decadent foreign spices in the tea they served her. The young maid made it a habit to drop by again, and again after that, to further debuke the prince as he lavished fine dresses and jewelry on her with each visit. They were married before the end of the year.

If you wish to resist outside influence, watch out for those ideas you find yourself so vehemently disagreeing with, so passionately resisting, for we make a special place in our hearts for those thoughts to haunt, somewhere very close for the place for love. Or perhaps you shouldn't be quite so afraid of what your fellow man has to say. Who knows, sometimes we might come up with something pretty smart.

who the f*ck let a peasant in the palace, what do i pay those guards for?
no but seriously, nice one, its like me and religion, i'm adamantly atheist, but the more i look into religion to disprove it to myself, the more i wish i believed a little, just to have hope, keep your friends close but your enemies closer, and satan waaaay closer, like in your lap, or on your head if your neck's strong enough

 

[DonMartin]

Why would I want to question truth?

Agreed, i dont think there even is a way to question truth. It's always changing.
"Truth has no path. Truth is living and, therefore, changing" -Bruce Lee

And on love: if one loves, one need not have an ideology of love.

Amituofo!

 

[Chefodeath]

Care to try mine on for size?

Knowledge is. That's it. Given that we live in the subjective shell of our own skulls, is not all experience of the world some sort of knowledge? Everything that passes across the stage of conciousness can be said to be knowledge.

You might say thats a more fitting definition for raw information, that knowledge is something higher, but I think thats an arbitrary line really. We tend to organize our knowledge with labels such as true and false, to help define our world and act accordingly.

Honestly though, on what intrinsic level can any knowledge be more or less true, more or less real, than any other knowledge? If I say their are flying pink elephants, does this not draw from the same conceptual elements of flight, pink, and elephant commonly believed to be found in nature? If I say there exists round triangles, does it not too draw from the concepts of roundness and triangularity? Its all just a question of how we choose to organize these familiar elements.

There's my thought anyway. Knowledge isn't true or false. Knowledge isn't good or evil. Knowledge is.

There are many different types of knowledge. The way one knows how to ride a bike is different from the way one knows that 2 + 2 = 4. A particular problem arises in English where one may know a person or a place, which is distinct from knowing of that person or place.

So far you've only demonstrated what knowledge isn't, and that it exists.

That knowledge exists is entirely my point though. Knowledge is everything we experience, it makes up every point of our cognitive existence in some form or another. Just because there are different types of knowledge does not disqualify them as all a part of the same whole that is our experience.

You say I've defined what knowledge isn't. I don't see how that's possible. Name for me any thing that isn't some form of knowledge. Everything you say will be drawn from your personal well of human experience. You might name the physical reality perhaps, from which our knowledge is painted, but is not your awareness of such a thing merely a knowledge in and of itself?

 

[Fallen-Angel Risen-Demon]

Death is a inevitability. It will happen, you can't stop it. I have accepted that I will die, but not just yet. You decide how you die through your actions. It may not be a direct concequence but it will be a concequence.

That was me, today.
At pricicly 29 July 2010 9:10 am.
I have motto that goes with it.
'Death is known, how is not.'
Is that philisophical enough for ya'?

 

[Chefodeath]

I need to know if there is still hope in this world, if there are still people out there questioning truth, i want you to put up your favorite Philosophical idea, that you thought up yourself, here is mine to get started

"Love, or what we call Love, is not something that just one word can encompass, it is what we live, it is ourselves, our neighbors and the very air we breath, Love is more than just what we feel when we like a girl or a boy, it is everything." -Eric Lambert (2010)

I'd like to point out that we hav a word that encompasses love ... coincidentally, it's "love". The only issue is that people fail to fully comprehend its meaning, so the fault of it lies with the interpreters not the interpreted.

OT: I don't really like the opinions of other people. I'll look at them, but it isn't about "Oh some smart guy said this" it is more "Some guy, coincidentally smart, said something I agree with ... so I remain unaffected by this person's established beliefs".

If I had to sum up my own philosophy though? "The morals you have in life, the meaning you take from it and the impact you leave on it are all subjective, so don't give a flying excrement what others think, do whatever you believe to be the best action at any given time"

You remind me of a funny story. Once upon a time there was a prince freshly upon marrying age. He lived in a lavish palace, and for this, most of the poor farmers that habited his kingdom resented him for it. Now, the prince could have had any woman he desired, but he had set his eye upon a young peasant lass who worked the farm. The woman laughed at his offers of matrimony, spat in his direction when he came here. She hated the prince like so many others, loathed that he lived in luxury while the rest labored under the cruel sun.

The prince was persistent however, even though each time she repelled his advances. Fed up with all this nonsense, the farm maiden brought herself to the prince's palace one day, to embaress him infront of the lords and ladies in his courts. Oh how she despised the fine woven gold that laced his tapestries and how it danced the light. Oh how she loathed the decadent foreign spices in the tea they served her. The young maid made it a habit to drop by again, and again after that, to further debuke the prince as he lavished fine dresses and jewelry on her with each visit. They were married before the end of the year.

If you wish to resist outside influence, watch out for those ideas you find yourself so vehemently disagreeing with, so passionately resisting, for we make a special place in our hearts for those thoughts to haunt, somewhere very close for the place for love. Or perhaps you shouldn't be quite so afraid of what your fellow man has to say. Who knows, sometimes we might come up with something pretty smart.

who the f*ck let a peasant in the palace, what do i pay those guards for?
no but seriously, nice one, its like me and religion, i'm adamantly atheist, but the more i look into religion to disprove it to myself, the more i wish i believed a little, just to have hope, keep your friends close but your enemies closer, and satan waaaay closer, like in your lap, or on your head if your neck's strong enough

Always keep an eye on those things that grow in opposition of eachother for they are fundamentally tied.

Watch the way which christians and the atheists who came in response to them debate, look at the eerie similarities they tend to have.

 

[Uzigawa]

"There was a time when man dreamed to fly like a bird, we finally accomplished it, Then man dreamed to touch the heavens, We finally accomplished it, when man dreams, nothing can stop it, god himself could come from his domain and put a hand in our path and we would find a way around, we can do anything we dream, accomplish all we imagine, Man is the greatest adapting being known to man" -Eric Lambert (again) rather boasting of our badassness is it not?

 

[TheLaofKazi]

"Let's suppose that you were able every night to dream any dream you wanted to dream, and that you could for example have the power within one night to dream any length of time you wanted to have, and you would naturally as you began on this adventure of dreams, you would fulfill all your wishes. You would have every kind of pleasure you could conceive, and after several nights you would say "well, that was pretty great, but now let's have a surprise. Let's have a dream that isn't under control." You would continue to get more adventurous and would make further and further gambles as to what you would dream until finally you would dream - where you are now."

-Alan Watts

 

[Kris015]

I often question the truth, it's one of the only things i think about. Actually people often tell me i'm VERY philosophical (is that how you spell it?)

Anyways, "To move forward is the only reason to live, and the only reason to die." -Philosophicalbastard

 

[Uzigawa]

I need to know if there is still hope in this world, if there are still people out there questioning truth, i want you to put up your favorite Philosophical idea, that you thought up yourself, here is mine to get started

"Love, or what we call Love, is not something that just one word can encompass, it is what we live, it is ourselves, our neighbors and the very air we breath, Love is more than just what we feel when we like a girl or a boy, it is everything." -Eric Lambert (2010)

I'd like to point out that we hav a word that encompasses love ... coincidentally, it's "love". The only issue is that people fail to fully comprehend its meaning, so the fault of it lies with the interpreters not the interpreted.

OT: I don't really like the opinions of other people. I'll look at them, but it isn't about "Oh some smart guy said this" it is more "Some guy, coincidentally smart, said something I agree with ... so I remain unaffected by this person's established beliefs".

If I had to sum up my own philosophy though? "The morals you have in life, the meaning you take from it and the impact you leave on it are all subjective, so don't give a flying excrement what others think, do whatever you believe to be the best action at any given time"

You remind me of a funny story. Once upon a time there was a prince freshly upon marrying age. He lived in a lavish palace, and for this, most of the poor farmers that habited his kingdom resented him for it. Now, the prince could have had any woman he desired, but he had set his eye upon a young peasant lass who worked the farm. The woman laughed at his offers of matrimony, spat in his direction when he came here. She hated the prince like so many others, loathed that he lived in luxury while the rest labored under the cruel sun.

The prince was persistent however, even though each time she repelled his advances. Fed up with all this nonsense, the farm maiden brought herself to the prince's palace one day, to embaress him infront of the lords and ladies in his courts. Oh how she despised the fine woven gold that laced his tapestries and how it danced the light. Oh how she loathed the decadent foreign spices in the tea they served her. The young maid made it a habit to drop by again, and again after that, to further debuke the prince as he lavished fine dresses and jewelry on her with each visit. They were married before the end of the year.

If you wish to resist outside influence, watch out for those ideas you find yourself so vehemently disagreeing with, so passionately resisting, for we make a special place in our hearts for those thoughts to haunt, somewhere very close for the place for love. Or perhaps you shouldn't be quite so afraid of what your fellow man has to say. Who knows, sometimes we might come up with something pretty smart.

who the f*ck let a peasant in the palace, what do i pay those guards for?
no but seriously, nice one, its like me and religion, i'm adamantly atheist, but the more i look into religion to disprove it to myself, the more i wish i believed a little, just to have hope, keep your friends close but your enemies closer, and satan waaaay closer, like in your lap, or on your head if your neck's strong enough

Always keep an eye on those things that grow in opposition of eachother for they are fundamentally tied.

Watch the way which christians and the atheists who came in response to them debate, look at the eerie similarities they tend to have.

we are all human, i like to think that when we are born, if nothing ever happened, if there was no disease or death, then every human would be the same, it is these struggles that make our difference, look how bland the world was before we discovered other countries existed.

 

[Dags90]

That knowledge exists is entirely my point though. Knowledge is everything we experience, it makes up every point of our cognitive existence in some form or another. Just because there are different types of knowledge does not disqualify them as all a part of the same whole that is our experience.

You say I've defined what knowledge isn't. I don't see how that's possible. Name for me any thing that isn't some form of knowledge. Everything you say will be drawn from your personal well of human experience. You might name the physical reality perhaps, from which our knowledge is painted, but is not your awareness of such a thing merely a knowledge in and of itself?

As Descartes famously said, "Cogito ergo sum", I think therefore I am. This is pretty widely accepted as knowledge, we know we must exist on some level in order to have properties like thought.

Did early thinkers know that humors were the cause of medical maladies? They may have experiential knowledge of being taught that, but did they know that humors cause medical maladies?

 

[Uzigawa]

I often question the truth, it's one of the only things i think about. Actually people often tell me i'm VERY philosophical (is that how you spell it?)

Anyways, "To move forward is the only reason to live, and the only reason to die." -Philosophicalbastard

a few things to say to this, this forum has spell check, so no red lines = A okay

but anyways, i believe truth exists merely to be questioned, if truth was never questioned, the earth would be flat, man could not fly, and there would only be one government, one must question truth to progress, if albert einstein hadn't ever looked out of a bus window and thought what if it appeared to be a different time behind me, something that seemed to be blatantly false, then our understanding of life would be limited as a horse with blinders on, only seeing what is ahead, no room to wander or imagine. is that a world in which you wish to live in, they say ignorance is bliss, but what if what is on the other side is better?

 

[grimsprice]

wow, i was an inch away from just saying tl;dr, but i remembered last time i did that i got put on probation

EDIT: k, i'm not as smart as i try to make myself sound, i read about the first paragraph, and couldn't read anymore, too many big words, totally zoned

Hey, you wanted to start a philo thread. That's just the first paragraph of Kierkegaard's Fear and Trembling, which is itself only a part of an oeuvre which is, oh, 1900 pages long.

Which still makes it quite a bit shorter than, say, Schopenhauer's The World as Will and Representation...

Unfortunately, normal human beings don't live in that kind of philosophical world. Rather than fine wines 30 years old, most would rather have a Skinny Blonde, or a Bud Light of all things. I understand that a complex and subtle take on the world would take a great many pages to express, but 1900 is deliberate padding and smacks of elitism.

What is the point in discovering a lense with which to view the world if you can't share it with anyone who's not in your comfy armchair club?

 

[Twilight_guy]

Only a fool would judge humanity based on a single thread on an internet forum. There is no use arguing or reasoning with fools because their minds are made up and their eyes are shut.

 

[Uzigawa]

wow, i was an inch away from just saying tl;dr, but i remembered last time i did that i got put on probation

EDIT: k, i'm not as smart as i try to make myself sound, i read about the first paragraph, and couldn't read anymore, too many big words, totally zoned

Hey, you wanted to start a philo thread. That's just the first paragraph of Kierkegaard's Fear and Trembling, which is itself only a part of an oeuvre which is, oh, 1900 pages long.

Which still makes it quite a bit shorter than, say, Schopenhauer's The World as Will and Representation...

Unfortunately, normal human beings don't live in that kind of philosophical world. Rather than fine wines 30 years old, most would rather have a Skinny Blonde, or a Bud Light of all things. I understand that a complex and subtle take on the world would take a great many pages to express, but 1900 is deliberate padding and smacks of elitism.

What is the point in discovering a lense with which to view the world if you can't share it with anyone who's not in your comfy armchair club?

wow, so lets count it up, your british, into bestiality (penguin tits and such) and totally in a pompous club obsessed with armchairs and lenses, you sir, are odd to say the least

 

[Chefodeath]

Since we're on the subject of questioning things, here's a nice wall of text for ya, straight from one of my favourite philosophical works:

Not only in the world of commerce but also in the world of ideas our age has arranged a regular clearance-sale. Everything may be had at such absurdedly low prices that very soon the question will arise whether any one cares to bid. Every waiter with a speculative turn who carefully marks the significant progress of modern philosophy, every lecturer in philosophy, every tutor, student, every sticker-and‑quitter of philosophy?they are not content with doubting everything, but "go right on." It might, possibly, be ill‑timed and inopportune to ask them whither they are bound; but it is no doubt polite and modest to take it for granted that they have doubted everything?else it were a curious statement for them to make, that they were proceeding onward.
So they have, all of them, completed that preliminary operation and, it would seem, with such ease that they do not think it necessary to waste a word about how they did it. The fact is, not even he who looked anxiously and with a troubled spirit for some little point of information, ever found one, nor any instruction, nor even any little dietetic prescription, as to how one is to accomplish this enormous task. "But did not Descartes proceed in this fashion?" Descartes, indeed! that venerable, humble, honest thinker whose writings surely no one can read without deep emotion?Descartes did what he said, and said what he did. Alas, alas! that is a mighty rare thing in our times! But Descartes, as he says frequently enough, never uttered doubts concerning his faith. . . .

That text block, its in regard to how philosophers discredit the basic pillars of the things they build upon correct? How can for example, a man go about counting how many peacocks are pink when he has not even come to the conclusion of what the color pink is yet. Jumping ahead of ourselves as it were. That bothered me for a long time too, but I think philosophy is more inherently the perfecting of the processes leading to a conclusion than about the starting or finishing point. To this end, I suppose it doesn't matter that our starting points are non-fixed. Philosophy is dependent on some assumptions I suppose.

 

[Uzigawa]

Only a fool would judge humanity based on a single thread on an internet forum. There is no use arguing or reasoning with fools because their minds are made up and their eyes are shut.

one does not have to change another's thoughts, he merely has to plant the seed, and wait for a later event to push him along, we are not arguing or reasoning, we merely wish to have an intelligent conversation where we can exchange interesting ideas, your view is skewed

 

[Uzigawa]

Why would I want to question truth?

You have to know what truth is in order to question it, and in order to do know what it is, you have to ask yourself philosophical questions. There is no way around it.

why must i know what i question? wouldn't questioning it be the best way to learn of it? think of it like this, does a redneck stay out of politics cause they have no idea about it? hell no, they jump right in and say they're right, maybe the rednecks have the right idea, oh wait forgot about the whole total ignorance, ya, you might have a bit of a point there

That's the thing which my quote is about, the misunderstanding of the nature of doubt.

You see, today, we subscribe to Descartes' notion that doubt is the origin of wisdom - well, we don't, actually. We now think that doubt is the origin of knowledge, which is not what the man intended, and what Kierkegaard laments in Fear and Trembling. These days, we do not even bother to know about things, as in actually acquiring a profound understanding of them, but we proceed to doubting, criticising, and "moving on" right away.

That is pretty much the root cause of most of the retardedness going on in every discourse today. People talk about politics believing that sound bites are the same as an opinion, while others talk about metaphysics or atheism without having read either the Bible or Nietzsche. In Escapist terms, imagine a bunch of people talking about games that they've nev... well, just think about Roger Ebert or Jack Thompson. People respect, say, Yahtzee's views on games even though they may disagree with them (well, the more mature of us do) because he knows a lot about games, which is manifestly evident in his comments.

The sad thing is that today, and perversely in the fields which theoretically require the most preparation and thought (politics and metaphysics), it's precisely the most ignorant ones whose voices are the loudest.
Believing something to be 100% true when you don't have all the facts is easy. A child which doesn't know any adults besides its parents will assume that his father is the strongest man in the world. Empirical knowledge, however, will sooner or later dilute this view, and the more you try to hold on to it in the face of evidence to the contrary, themore childish you will look (a recenty published poll shows that republicans, when presented with evidence which obviously contradicts their beliefs, will basically stuff their ears, go "lalala" and become even further convinced of - whatever republicans believe, I guess, that health care is worse than making up reasons to invade countries and murder tens of thousands, I guess, and that Sarah Palin is a great politician).

For an American who has lived in Rome, Tokyo and Munich, who has been to the French Riviera and Tuscany, it is rather harder to suggest that "USA is #1!!!" than for someone who has never left Bumfuck, TX. For someone who has studied the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in detail, picking a side is much tougher than for someone who gets his "views" (such as they are) spoon-fed to him by Rush Limbaugh. When discussing religion, you can do so on the level of, say, Aquinas and Nietzsche, or you can do so on that of the Westboro Baptist Church and Sam Harris.

So, can I NOW get a tl;dr, or what?

believe it or not, read it all, understood it, good job i must say, i actually agree strongly with that, it's like a person saying that career politicians are bad because they put us here, even though a career politician has more experience and know how on what to do than say some dude who plays golf and is a plumber on weekdays,it's rare i find something that i wholeheartedly agree with, congratulations sir, you win at the internet

 

[Uzigawa]

Life is only a dream and we are merely an imagination of ourselves - Bill Hicks

funny you say that, i used to think something similar, i was convinced that we are merely at the end of our lives, and these things we see and think are just memories of what has happened, explaining deja vu and such, i quickly realised the major flaw in this being that, how could this be possible if i am thinking about it right now?

 

[Chefodeath]

That knowledge exists is entirely my point though. Knowledge is everything we experience, it makes up every point of our cognitive existence in some form or another. Just because there are different types of knowledge does not disqualify them as all a part of the same whole that is our experience.

You say I've defined what knowledge isn't. I don't see how that's possible. Name for me any thing that isn't some form of knowledge. Everything you say will be drawn from your personal well of human experience. You might name the physical reality perhaps, from which our knowledge is painted, but is not your awareness of such a thing merely a knowledge in and of itself?

As Descartes famously said, "Cogito ergo sum", I think therefore I am. This is pretty widely accepted as knowledge, we know we must exist on some level in order to have properties like thought.

Did early thinkers know that humors were the cause of medical maladies? They may have experiential knowledge of being taught that, but did they know that humors cause medical maladies?

Well, it seems we're getting into a bit of semantics here. As I have defined knowledge, it is simply any knowledge we happen to know regardless of its barings on what we perceive as reality. You seem to define it as something that is "true" a piece of knowledge that lines up with reality.

As I said before though, I'm not sure any knowledge can really be said to be more true or false then any other beyond a superficial level, and even if they can, I don't think its possible for us to be able to name them as such beyond doubt. Even Descartes can be doubted. On who's authority must a thing exist in order to think? Your own biased human logic? Perhaps its possible for a thing to think without actually existing. Sure, it makes no sense at all, but who said that reality has to conform to what makes sense?