Philosophy

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Jaime_Wolf

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Jul 17, 2009
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First, I'd like the echo the sentiment that most of these could hardly qualify as philosophy. They're just inane rambling that sounds cool.

Incidentally, the philosophical point I wanted to bring up (my favourite, not my own), is how much of philosophy is essentially inane rambling that sounds cool. I don't mean that in an entirely pejorative way, since I think it's an easier trap to fall into than most philosophers (even well-established, renowned philosophers) realize.

My favourite point:
All of our investigation into reality is framed in language. It may be the case that all of our thinking itself is done in language (I'm not arguing one way or the other on this since it remains a contentious issue in the cognitive sciences). At the very least, we frame our questions in language. What this means is that sometimes you are not asking the questions that you think you're asking. When you ask "What is the meaning of life?", for instance, you probably don't actually realize what it is that you're asking. Because what this question really asks is "what is the meaning of 'meaning'" and "what is the meaning of 'life'" and how do they correspond? But these questions presuppose the existence of some vaguely Platonic concept of "meaning" and "life". Once we realize that the most meaningful way we can characterize the meaning of a word is by the contexts in which it is used, and acknowledge that its "meaning" in a particular context is therefore a function of that context, it becomes clear that what the question is REALLY asking is completely incoherent. "What is the meaning of life?" isn't a HARD question, it's just a BAD question: you've taken two terms completely out of any identifiable context by asking the question and it is, for that very reason, meaningless. When you bring this up, people typically say "oh you're arguing semantics", but that's precisely the point. All of our questions, all of our answers, are in language. You CAN'T ignore the semanitcs because your question might not be the question you think it is. (See Wittgenstein's Philosophical Investigations for what is probably to most coherent discussion of these ideas, among others.)

One more example from a discussion with a friend (I guess this counts as my own contribution):
The question - "What is consciousness?". Now, if we found a field around the head that such that people that had it appeared to be "conscious" and people without it appeared not to be, would that field be "consciousness"? My immediate response was "No. Not in the way you think it would." He rejected this immediately. The central question is this: when I said that someone was "conscious", did I mean that they had that field around their head? His argument is that I didn't realize that I meant it because I was ignorant of the discovery of that field, but I did mean it. But how can I mean something that I don't know of? Furthermore, how could I possibly have meant the field if it takes special instruments to detect. How could I have known whether to use the word? The answer is that what was discovered was not "consciousness" because "consciousness" is merely a word (or a concept if you prefer), it is simply defined by the contexts in which it is used. Now when things are DISCOVERED, this mistake isn't a huge problem: the situations in which we refer to this new field would be mostly identical to the situations in which we use the word "consciousness" - the words would be synonymous. But when you frame a QUESTION in this way, you're assuming that there IS some, say, field that exists in the same contexts in which the word is used. You may be looking for something that doesn't exist, but that this trick of language makes you think MUST exist. The folk theory of cognition is especially problematic as it is almost certainly wrong in many respects and it has words used in extremely complex and varied contexts. Thus when we look for "thoughts" or "consciousness", we need to be aware that these things might not exist, that we are being tricked into thinking that these are good questions.
 

PayneTrayne

Filled with ReLRRgious fervor.
Dec 17, 2009
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Sightless Wisdom said:
Philosophy is a very interesting thing, but extended periods of philosophical thinking has tired my brain and lead me towards cognitive psychology.

In any case one of my favorite quotes(yes, I realize you asked for something original) from someone I never knew the name of is "The truth, you'll find, is often relative to opinion.". It really makes you think about the nature of the concept of truth.

Perspective is very important.
Especially if you consider Ranke, where he believed that there was no absolute truth as even science has observation and interpretation. A more recent historian, Jordanova put it into context by saying something along the line of "We can never have an absolute truth, there are two many wild cards; however, we can have trust." So we can trust that the scientists made correct observations, but we'll never truly know. We can trust that history actually happened as it has been written, but we'll never really know because there's too many written narratives about how awesome we are compared to those we conquered.
 
Sep 11, 2009
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Jaime_Wolf said:
First, I'd like the echo the sentiment that most of these could hardly qualify as philosophy. They're just inane rambling that sounds cool.

Incidentally, the philosophical point I wanted to bring up (my favourite, not my own), is how much of philosophy is essentially inane rambling that sounds cool. I don't mean that in an entirely pejorative way, since I think it's an easier trap to fall into than most philosophers (even well-established, renowned philosophers) realize.

My favourite point:
All of our investigation into reality is framed in language. It may be the case that all of our thinking itself is done in language (I'm not arguing one way or the other on this since it remains a contentious issue in the cognitive sciences). At the very least, we frame our questions in language. What this means is that sometimes you are not asking the questions that you think you're asking. When you ask "What is the meaning of life?", for instance, you probably don't actually realize what it is that you're asking. Because what this question really asks is "what is the meaning of 'meaning'" and "what is the meaning of 'life'" and how do they correspond? But these questions presuppose the existence of some vaguely Platonic concept of "meaning" and "life". Once we realize that the most meaningful way we can characterize the meaning of a word is by the contexts in which it is used, and acknowledge that its "meaning" in a particular context is therefore a function of that context, it becomes clear that what the question is REALLY asking is completely incoherent. "What is the meaning of life?" isn't a HARD question, it's just a BAD question: you've taken two terms completely out of any identifiable context by asking the question and it is, for that very reason, meaningless. When you bring this up, people typically say "oh you're arguing semantics", but that's precisely the point. All of our questions, all of our answers, are in language. You CAN'T ignore the semanitcs because your question might not be the question you think it is. (See Wittgenstein's Philosophical Investigations for what is probably to most coherent discussion of these ideas, among others.)

One more example from a discussion with a friend (I guess this counts as my own contribution):
The question - "What is consciousness?". Now, if we found a field around the head that such that people that had it appeared to be "conscious" and people without it appeared not to be, would that field be "consciousness"? My immediate response was "No. Not in the way you think it would." He rejected this immediately. The central question is this: when I said that someone was "conscious", did I mean that they had that field around their head? His argument is that I didn't realize that I meant it because I was ignorant of the discovery of that field, but I did mean it. But how can I mean something that I don't know of? Furthermore, how could I possibly have meant the field if it takes special instruments to detect. How could I have known whether to use the word? The answer is that what was discovered was not "consciousness" because "consciousness" is merely a word (or a concept if you prefer), it is simply defined by the contexts in which it is used. Now when things are DISCOVERED, this mistake isn't a huge problem: the situations in which we refer to this new field would be mostly identical to the situations in which we use the word "consciousness" - the words would be synonymous. But when you frame a QUESTION in this way, you're assuming that there IS some, say, field that exists in the same contexts in which the word is used. You may be looking for something that doesn't exist, but that this trick of language makes you think MUST exist. The folk theory of cognition is especially problematic as it is almost certainly wrong in many respects and it has words used in extremely complex and varied contexts. Thus when we look for "thoughts" or "consciousness", we need to be aware that these things might not exist, that we are being tricked into thinking that these are good questions.
OH GOD WALL OF TEXT
Ugh, so, basically, are you trying to say that I can't state that something doesn't exists, because then I've already said it does? Then sorry, but Protagoras beat ya to it.
 

SpecklePattern

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Uzigawa said:
SpecklePattern said:
"Phrase: 'Questioning truth' is undefined and meaningless. Many still tend to do it. Questioning does not change the truth that someone, or the person questioning, has set. Also truth is always subjective. Sometimes many observers all agree that some amount of statements and/or view on some phenomenon is 'truth'. The truth is still in the mind of the observer and I think thus subjective. Although I do realize that this view about truth might not be the truth about truth for me or my fellow escapists as it exists in our minds and constantly changes we we all change." -SpecklePattern (2010)
why must everyone take me so literally on the least important part of my post? i simply used it to abstractly ask for some inventive quotations to defy social standards, think outside the box you could say, and anyways, why make asking questions about the answer? i believe asking a question should be about the adventure of asking, not the answer itself, it's like living your whole life looking forward to death, and not enjoying the ride to it, you have to enjoy the little things.
Well ain't you touchy. Wasn't my answer out side the box? Tried to. And why ask questions if you have an answer ready?
... and anyways, why make asking questions about the answer? i believe asking a question should be about the adventure of asking, not the answer itself,
...
it's like living your whole life looking forward to death, and not enjoying the ride to it, you have to enjoy the little things.
I have always embraced life as it is. I don't always like but I still embrace it. So please, don't make life-hater, or imply it, if I write philosophical thoughts about the word 'truth', because my own quote above does not imply anything to that direction. It contains, or tries to, only my thought about the word 'truth'. I thought we could have been free to choose our replies in this thread when the title is, after all, "Philosophy". My mistake.
 

Danny Ocean

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Jun 28, 2008
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Most of this isn't really philosophy, it's just yes-men and plagiarised wit.

Uzigawa said:
Naheal said:
"It is a greater victory to make your enemy see things your way than it is to defeat them." -Sun Tzu
so either force views on them in argument or at gunpoint? well it at lest gets shit done
He's saying negotiation is better than war. It's not that hard to grasp.

Uzigawa said:
Kris015 said:
I often question the truth, it's one of the only things i think about. Actually people often tell me i'm VERY philosophical (is that how you spell it?)

Anyways, "To move forward is the only reason to live, and the only reason to die." -Philosophicalbastard
a few things to say to this, this forum has spell check, so no red lines = A okay

but anyways, i believe truth exists merely to be questioned
Only if you confuse truth with opinion. The the true truth is objectively so, but opnions are only subjectively true.

Basically, you don't question the truth, because it's the truth. You question half-truths and perspectives and opinions and beliefs and faiths in the search for the truth. Once you've found it, you're done.

Until you find something else that contradicts that truth, in which case you realise that the opinion you reached was not a truth, and instead just another perspective. Then you continue on in the search for the truth.
thisguywithhair said:
A friend once told me that "the truth shall set you free."

No it wont, the truth is rigid and unchanging. 2+2=4, there is no changing the truth of that equation.
You're looking the wrong way. Besides, how do you know that 2+2=4? How don't you know that some Evil Demon[footnote]Oh! Oh! Actual philosophical question! Descartes ftw![/footnote] didn't just implant that idea into your head, and at every turn is deceiving you? How do you know that you even exist and aren't some paradoxical illusion viewing an illusion?
 

SpecklePattern

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Archangel357 said:
SpecklePattern said:
"Phrase: 'Questioning truth' is undefined and meaningless. Many still tend to do it. Questioning does not change the truth that someone, or the person questioning, has set. Also truth is always subjective. Sometimes many observers all agree that some amount of statements and/or view on some phenomenon is 'truth'. The truth is still in the mind of the observer and I think thus subjective. Although I do realize that this view about truth might not be the truth about truth for me or my fellow escapists as it exists in our minds and constantly changes we we all change." -SpecklePattern (2010)
The logical conclusion, then, is to challenge our own subjectivity, the reason behind those points of view which shape our individual truths.

The best way to do that is to look closely at unreflected, knee-jerk reactions you have to things, even the most basic, undisputed ones. Because only then you can understand why someone else's natural reaction may be different from yours.

Stupid example: a friend tells you that somebody he knows got raped. Everybody's first reaction will be, "oh my God, that's terrible." Now, at this point, if one is half serious about philosophy or cultural anthropology, one asks himself, "wait, WHY is it terrible?"; and then one would look at our cultural history, our shared values, the times when it may not have been considered terrible, etc etc.

Everybody knows that rape is bad. Very few people know why they know that it is. Hell, Freud made a name for himself by being the first to openly challenge our stances towards incest.
That is the logical countermeasure to the subjectivity. So in my opinion the conclusion (not sure that I would use your word 'conclusion'. More like problem, but anyways.) is that one has to see the subjectivity of one's mind to challenge it. So the challenge is to see how subjective your view to your own subjectivity is. Mostly this subjectivity, or breaking its bonds, is refererred to be 'thinking outside of the box', but first you have to see that you are in the box.

Never red Freud, and most like never will, but I like the scientifical approach of this problem. As science tries to model things as they are, the problem of subjectivity is always at hand.
 

Jack_Uzi

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Mar 18, 2009
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Here are a few things I keep in mind when I'm in dark days:

- Everything changes, sometimes it can be good, sometimes bad. But one way or the other, you learn from it.

- Most people ar too busy with themself to really pay attention to you, now that's a good thing, because some people just worry too much about what other people think of them. Just be your own person.

- Be honest with yourself, you are the only one who has to deal with yourself 24-7, so that could be an important thing. If you maintain that stance, you are probably a stable person.
 

P.Tsunami

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Feb 21, 2010
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Danny Ocean said:
You're looking the wrong way. Besides, how do you know that 2+2=4? How don't you know that some Evil Demon[footnote]Oh! Oh! Actual philosophical question! Descartes ftw![/footnote] didn't just implant that idea into your head, and at every turn is deceiving you? How do you know that you even exist and aren't some paradoxical illusion viewing an illusion?
Aha! But God exists, and he wouldn't deceive me like that! Ergo, 2+2=4.

...I prefered Descartes while he was hardcore.
 

Alystrai

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Feb 18, 2010
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"Pain is like water - it takes an infinity of forms, it can be vast or infinitesimal, it exists in our world in great abundance, and it fades away with time and between friends." - Anonymous
 

SpecklePattern

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thisguywithhair said:
A friend once told me that "the truth shall set you free."

No it wont, the truth is rigid and unchanging. 2+2=4, there is no changing the truth of that equation.

Lies on the other hand are fluid, changing (potentially) from one situation to the next, and able to adapt to any and all situations.
But the truth is not only an equation. Truth is very complicated and subjective term. That equation you presented is only mathematically logical and true. But truth as a larger entity is always subjective. And your phrase "the truth shall set you free" is commonly used as a witty quote as it is and will be unproven. In other words: You can not state that the phrase "the truth shall set you free" is true in the same way as the solution (it is not actually an equation as there is no variables on unknow factors) 2+2=4.

Also, solutions
12 + 12 = 24,
12 + 12 = 44 and
20 + 20 = 28
are actually very logical and true. But truth is that I did not say that first uses decimal, second octal and thrid hexadecimal numbers. Subjectivity is funny thing and truth is subjective :)

Like I challenged the term truth in the post #94 [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.220777.7427112].
 

Burningsok

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Jul 23, 2009
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Religion. I see God as a symbol. God isn't something that is physical. God is like Uncle Sam or Santa Clause, but with much more meaning and has had a much bigger impact on humanity. You see, Santa Clause is the spirit of Christmas, Uncle Sam is the spirit of the USA, and God is the spirit of Christianity or any religion that follows him. He represent everything that is good in this world.

Urgh having a hard time explaining it better. Not fully awake.
 

Burningsok

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Jul 23, 2009
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SpecklePattern said:
thisguywithhair said:
A friend once told me that "the truth shall set you free."

No it wont, the truth is rigid and unchanging. 2+2=4, there is no changing the truth of that equation.

Lies on the other hand are fluid, changing (potentially) from one situation to the next, and able to adapt to any and all situations.
But the truth is not only an equation. Truth is very complicated and subjective term. That equation you presented is only mathematically logical and true. But truth as a larger entity is always subjective. And your phrase "the truth shall set you free" is commonly used as a witty quote as it is and will be unproven. In other words: You can not state that the phrase "the truth shall set you free" is true in the same way as the solution (it is not actually an equation as there is no variables on unknow factors) 2+2=4.

Also, solutions
12 + 12 = 24,
12 + 12 = 44 and
20 + 20 = 28
are actually very logical and true. But truth is that I did not say that first uses decimal, second octal and thrid hexadecimal numbers. Subjectivity is funny thing and truth is subjective :)

Like I challenged the term truth in the post #94 [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.220777.7427112].
The only reason that 2+2=4 is because we say it is. The truth is constantly changing. math was created by humans and has not existed from the beginning of time. Remember the quote from Assassins Creed, "Nothing is true and everything is permitted." I think that is what you guys are getting at.
 

SpecklePattern

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May 5, 2010
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Burningsok said:
SpecklePattern said:
thisguywithhair said:
A friend once told me that "the truth shall set you free."

No it wont, the truth is rigid and unchanging. 2+2=4, there is no changing the truth of that equation.

Lies on the other hand are fluid, changing (potentially) from one situation to the next, and able to adapt to any and all situations.
But the truth is not only an equation. Truth is very complicated and subjective term. That equation you presented is only mathematically logical and true. But truth as a larger entity is always subjective. And your phrase "the truth shall set you free" is commonly used as a witty quote as it is and will be unproven. In other words: You can not state that the phrase "the truth shall set you free" is true in the same way as the solution (it is not actually an equation as there is no variables on unknow factors) 2+2=4.

Also, solutions
12 + 12 = 24,
12 + 12 = 44 and
20 + 20 = 28
are actually very logical and true. But truth is that I did not say that first uses decimal, second octal and thrid hexadecimal numbers. Subjectivity is funny thing and truth is subjective :)

Like I challenged the term truth in the post #94 [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.220777.7427112].
The only reason that 2+2=4 is because we say it is. The truth is constantly changing. math was created by humans and has not existed from the beginning of time. Remember the quote from Assassins Creed, "Nothing is true and everything is permitted." I think that is what you guys are getting at.
You didn't see my post, huh? Yes. Truth is subjective as is mathematics is same exact way as my first post stated (or tried to state).
 

Dastardly

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Apr 19, 2010
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Uzigawa said:
dastardly said:
He who has imagination, but no learning, has wings, but no feet.
so, it'd be like...a bird with no feet? that wouldn't be that bad
You might fly for a little while, but with no foundation, no where to land, you'll tire quickly and go no further.
 

Burningsok

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Jul 23, 2009
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SpecklePattern said:
Burningsok said:
SpecklePattern said:
thisguywithhair said:
A friend once told me that "the truth shall set you free."

No it wont, the truth is rigid and unchanging. 2+2=4, there is no changing the truth of that equation.

Lies on the other hand are fluid, changing (potentially) from one situation to the next, and able to adapt to any and all situations.
But the truth is not only an equation. Truth is very complicated and subjective term. That equation you presented is only mathematically logical and true. But truth as a larger entity is always subjective. And your phrase "the truth shall set you free" is commonly used as a witty quote as it is and will be unproven. In other words: You can not state that the phrase "the truth shall set you free" is true in the same way as the solution (it is not actually an equation as there is no variables on unknow factors) 2+2=4.

Also, solutions
12 + 12 = 24,
12 + 12 = 44 and
20 + 20 = 28
are actually very logical and true. But truth is that I did not say that first uses decimal, second octal and thrid hexadecimal numbers. Subjectivity is funny thing and truth is subjective :)

Like I challenged the term truth in the post #94 [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.220777.7427112].
The only reason that 2+2=4 is because we say it is. The truth is constantly changing. math was created by humans and has not existed from the beginning of time. Remember the quote from Assassins Creed, "Nothing is true and everything is permitted." I think that is what you guys are getting at.
You didn't see my post, huh? Yes. Truth is subjective as is mathematics is same exact way as my first post stated (or tried to state).
yeah I got a bit lazy, after reading it I realized "Oh I didn't have to explain it, it's already here :p"
 

Uzigawa

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Jul 11, 2009
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Red Right Hand said:
"Sanity is a madness put to good uses; waking life is a dream controlled."

George Santayana, a great man.
i just like this cause it goes with one of my favorite quotes from the original alice in wonderland "I'm mad, you're mad, we're all mad!"