'Pick-up artist' banned from the UK

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

I watched his video about dealing with Japanese girls. It wasn't only sexist, but also racist.

I'm a woman. I hate the idea of pick up artists. Stuff I read or watch from them makes me ill. They basically see half of the human race as wild animals to be hunted... if they are attractive enough of course. Then you are not worth a damn.


Buuut I don't think he should be banned from entering a country. Banning his events that people pay for? That's fine with me. When he still spreads his bullshit, organize protests. That's how free societies should deal with bullshit: Challenge bad ideas by debate and protest. Not censorship.

He has choked complete strangers. Grabbed their heads and shoved his dick in their face against their will. This is sexual assault. This is a crime. This is not about speech, but he is actively instructing people to commit crimes and how they can " get away with them" this is instead a criminal activity, not free speech in any way. When he is touching and encouraging others to touch, that crosses the line between speech and action. He should not be receiving protests, he should be in jail. When his plan is to " get out of the country before they can prosecute". This is beyond ridiculous.

Calling that "censorship" is like calling a rapist teaching people how to rape and get away with it and having people pay them to do so a "legitimate business".

 

[Redryhno]

Wow, I'm truly amazed by the huge amount of people advocating murder, torture, and general all-around malicious actions to the guy, simply for being an asshole. Seriously guys, he's a sleazy SOB,don't get me wrong, but that doesn't excuse any of this crap you want to do to him.

Personally, I'd ban you all from every country I could get behind the idea, because you're all advocating PHYSICAL AND BODILY HARM ON ANOTHER HUMAN BECAUSE THE GUY'S A SLEAZEBALL. That's a hell of alot more dangerous than a guy teaching people how to get away with whatever their genitals wants them to do.

I don't care that you think it's justified, it's bull, and the kindergartner in all of you explaining in extensive detail how much pain you want to cause him knows it.

captcha: Ladies first

Oh that's just sickening or incredibly hilarious depending on your own views....

 

[Gali]

snip

He has choked complete strangers. Grabbed their heads and shoved his dick in their face against their will. This is sexual assault. This is a crime. This is not about speech, but he is actively instructing people to commit crimes and how they can " get away with them" this is instead a criminal activity, not free speech in any way. When he is touching and encouraging others to touch, that crosses the line between speech and action. He should not be receiving protests, he should be in jail. When his plan is to " get out of the country before they can prosecute". This is beyond ridiculous.

Calling that "censorship" is like calling a rapist teaching people how to rape and get away with it and having people pay them to do so a "legitimate business".

Woah, calm the fuck down please. No need for such a hostile tone.

I didn't want to excuse his actions at all. No, and I don't like rape either. I just feel not comfortable with banning people from entering a country just because we don't like him or what he represents. What I want to see is to get this guy to be a criminal on fucking paper. To get laws changed so that nobody can make a business of fooling people this way. What I have seen so far was just: "Nope we don't like him and his ideas, he is not allowed to enter our country. The end." In other words, I agree that he is scum but the action taken against him is wrong and doesn't help us much in the long run.

I probably should've added that. But I forgot that when it comes to topic like this, people jump very quickly to their own conclusions.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

snip

He has choked complete strangers. Grabbed their heads and shoved his dick in their face against their will. This is sexual assault. This is a crime. This is not about speech, but he is actively instructing people to commit crimes and how they can " get away with them" this is instead a criminal activity, not free speech in any way. When he is touching and encouraging others to touch, that crosses the line between speech and action. He should not be receiving protests, he should be in jail. When his plan is to " get out of the country before they can prosecute". This is beyond ridiculous.

Calling that "censorship" is like calling a rapist teaching people how to rape and get away with it and having people pay them to do so a "legitimate business".

Woah, calm the fuck down please. No need for such a hostile tone.

I didn't want to excuse his actions at all. No, and I don't like rape either. I just feel not comfortable with banning people from entering a country just because we don't like him or what he represents. What I want to see is to get this guy to be a criminal on fucking paper. To get laws changed so that nobody can make a business of fooling people this way. What I have seen so far was just: "Nope we don't like him and his ideas, he is not allowed to enter our country. The end."

I probably should've added that.

Hostile? Nope, sorry, no hostility. I was just stating what happened. Videos of him showing himself to sexually assault strangers and bragging about it isn't enough? It is what happened that was hostile, not me. LOL

The pictures cannot be posted on this site due to their graphic and sexual content.

 

[Gali]

Hostile? Nope, sorry, no hostility. I was just stating what happened. It is what happened that was hostile, not me. LOL

Sigh. Then I misread your intent. Thanks for the conversation, I guess I will carry on with my day now.

 

[Dragonlayer]

Except he wasn't barred for sexism, was he? He was banned for accusations of sexual assault (which appear to be legit) and predatory behaviour.

That's sort of underselling it. That's like saying a rapist went to jail for purchasing a condom. And, you know, leaving out the part where s/he was a rapist.

You say that, but I believe there's a footballer and convicted rapist whose effectively been given a slap on the wrist and allowed back into the sport despite being an unrepentant rapist.

OT

Ah yes, I saw a news article on this the other day that piqued my curiosity about the Pick Up Artist movement in general. I think he's a disgusting excuse for a human being and fully approve of keeping him out of the UK. Now if we could only do the same with all those hate-preachers....

 

[Kajin]

Wow, I'm truly amazed by the huge amount of people advocating murder, torture, and general all-around malicious actions to the guy, simply for being an asshole. Seriously guys, he's a sleazy SOB,don't get me wrong, but that doesn't excuse any of this crap you want to do to him.

Personally, I'd ban you all from every country I could get behind the idea, because you're all advocating PHYSICAL AND BODILY HARM ON ANOTHER HUMAN BECAUSE THE GUY'S A SLEAZEBALL. That's a hell of alot more dangerous than a guy teaching people how to get away with whatever their genitals wants them to do.

I don't care that you think it's justified, it's bull, and the kindergartner in all of you explaining in extensive detail how much pain you want to cause him knows it.

captcha: Ladies first

Oh that's just sickening or incredibly hilarious depending on your own views....

From a purely objective point of view, I think a bunch of people talking on the internet about wanting to beat up one guy is less dangerous than letting that one guy actively get away with sexual assault and the teaching thereof to legions of men who also want to get away with sexual assault. They're both crimes, to be sure, but one of them outweighs the other in sheer awfulness.

 

[Sylveria]

That is what he does, he teaches men how to do this and manipulate he women into not reporting it. Teaching them how to do this is what they are paying him money to learn.

Is he Professor X or something?

I'm sorry, but, I really don't think you're going to encounter women who are so incapable of opinion and thought that they're going to find themselves incapable of rejecting a guy.

Especially the kind of guy that spends £1K on classes on how to get women.

Think this is rather showing of an issue with the "oppression feminist" projection of women. We're seeing, increasingly regularly, the view that women can't take care of themselves, can't make their own decisions, and are oppressed and toyed with by men because the loudest voices on the topic keep telling us how under-foot we are. When someone is constantly told that, especially starting at a young age, they start to think and act that way.

Is everything this guy does beyond sleazy? Yes, but I'd agree that without some sort of legal standing, you can't ban someone from your country for being a jerk. It sets a dangerous precedent. If he does have charges against him or has convictions against him, or as someone further up said he's espoused his plan to leave the country after a crime is committed but before prosecution.. Even then I don't think he should be banned and made to be some other country's problem. Let him in, arrest him, prosecute him, find him guilty and put him away.

 

[CrystalShadow]

Encourages kissing and touching without consent? Well fuck this guy. Good on the UK

To be fair, I've never seen anyone give actual consent to a sudden kiss. There are no papers to file, there is no verbal declaration made.. it just happens. Technically, what this guy is doing isn't a problem unless someone files charges against him, and everyone he encounters is free to do that. It's not like he's killing these women or even threatening them afterwords. There is absolutely no magical barriers stopping them from filing police reports and getting him arrested.

I don't think you really get it. that is precisely what he is doing. The reason people don't report him is because he chooses victims that are already weak psychologically, then uses manipulation and threats to stop them saying anything.

That fits the same profile as when someone abusing a child tries to convince the child not to say anything about it.

You can say he should be reported, but he puts a lot of effort into insuring his victims won't do so. (Both by choosing them carefully, and by abusing and threatening them to keep them in line.)

On one hand, the guy does sound like a scumbag, not just your average joe out looking for sex, which there is actually nothing wrong with, but someone who is emotionally abusive in order to do it. This, of course, just reinforces the bullshit idea that women should be 'tricked' into sex, and that they can't possess sexuality of their own, I weep for a time when women go out looking for sex the same way men do and it's normal. The really bad part is even this whole things is an almost undefeatable structure, if you try to fight the 'pick up artist', you just end up objectifying women more, by treating them as things to be guarded, children to be protected and who can't look after themselves, and also end up sexually repressing women, and you really just encourage the 'pick up artist', because a lot of the appeal to them is in the challenge, in the chase. The only way to stop this bullshit is for women, at large, to embrace their sexuality, and stop seeing sex as this terrible awful thing, or as this thing for only 'your true love' or whatever.

On the other hand, what does this say about the UK? Their attitudes towards sex lately have been downright Orwellian. Hell, if the UK ended up having severe under-population issues in the next 200 years, I wouldn't be surprised. They really need to start embracing sexuality as a whole, as does the rest of the world, because that would fix all this shit up. The 'pick up game', 'pimp game', hell, even human trafficking to an extent, would die overnight if one day women embraced their sexuality as a whole and actually took agency in their sexuality, going to find guys if they're horny and saying "hey, you wanna fuck?", because then men wouldn't need a fucking seminar to trick women to have sex with them, because they could just go and have sex with a woman and both parties could consent completely, enjoy it, nobody would have to be manipulated or emotionally abused, and everyone would be happy. That's really the best solution to all this shit, just everyone be fucking cool about sex. I mean fuck. This isn't going to change anything, if anything it will make it worse, because adding this challenge just makes it that much more fun and thrilling for the guy. All the UK is doing as adding gas to the flame.

Although that's a reasonable point on some level, there is one big hole in it. Even if women own their own sexuality, this won't go away unless both sexes have identical sex drives.

You can see this in relationships between individuals as much as you can in general trends. I for instance doubt I would even be vaguely aroused often enough to satisfy even a man with a relatively low libido.

'Owning' your own sexuality doesn't mean having sex even if you don't feel like it, so how is it going to help unless we arbitrarily assume men and women have idintical libidos? Because if they don't, SOMEONE is going to be left dissatisfied more often than not.

(Not that I can claim to own my own sexuality.)

And to those of you saying women should have the strength to just say no (I don't particularly have that kind of emotional or psychological strength(, from what I've heard that's just not plausible, given that he deliberately goes looking for someone weak that he thinks he can manipulate.

 

[Kajin]

Is everything this guy does beyond sleazy? Yes, but I'd agree that without some sort of legal standing, you can't ban someone from your country for being a jerk. It sets a dangerous precedent.

I'd be inclined to disagree with this. A country has a duty to keep dangerous elements from entering its borders. How it goes about doing that is entirely up to the country in question, regardless of how much you might disagree with it personally.

 

[McElroy]

The guy is a conman. See his website? He sells buzzwords to people. What happened to him is that something pulled him out of the niche where this stuff worked. I bet he laments his decision to make that trip to Japan. More publicity and thus more money? Hah, he got outed. Even if we take his word that all that line-crossing crap we see and hear is just a deal of crass joking (he says this in an interview), he still has created himself a nasty, nasty reputation now.

I think there's a place for pickup artists (not quite) like him: a place where everybody is only looking for sex and everybody also wants what they think is best for the night, no matter how superficial it is. If you think of it as a game with the objective being only to score, then it's only fair everyone would have access to these sort of tips and tricks - whether they work or not.

I'd let him in every country in the world. Just make sure the cameras are rolling.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well sadly your government officials are allowed to ban whoever the fuck they want, hopefully you heard about the guy who was mean about the USA on twitter and the next time he travelled there he got instantly deported... the moment anyone at the border gets petty your ass becomes their plaything (sometimes literally).
The more worrying part is that this guy got banned due to an online petition, meaning that any extremist group can now bandy together and get absolutely anyone out of a country... that is a serious "holy fucking shit" moment.

Now for what this man is and does, plain and simply he is a professional manipulator teaching others how to manipulate as well. If he put his craft toward marketing, sales, lawyering or politics he would be hailed as a person of supreme talent but since he chose something that isn't approved this makes him a bastard. On the internet from the look of this thread it makes him any negative word one can think of.
And I agree manipulating people is a dick move of epic proportions, I'm just pointing out that some get praised for the exact same shit.

 

[TallanKhan]

From everything I have seen this guy is an absolute asshole. However, I am 100% not ok with idea of someone being denied entry to a country by petition. So they gathered 150,000 signatures? Whoa steady there, thats almost 0.25% of the population, and even if you assume that these people are the tip of the iceberg and are representative of a wider public consensus (which I think unlikely as no one I have discussed this with had even heard of this guy before now) then this still boils down to an attempt at mob justice.

While he seems utterly detestable, I can't understand, if he really is doing the things it is claimed he is doing, why he is still walking around free? If he is walking up to women in the street, putting them in choke holds and pushing his crotch in peoples faces, why isn't he in prison serving sentences for several hundred assault convictions?

I'm inclined to believe that this guy is just a money grabbing self promoter who has taken the "No publicity is bad publicity" line to an extreme. I would bet that sales of his videos and whatever other books etc he has out have shot through the roof on the back of all of this. Every bandwagon-jumping "morally outraged" politican who comes out to criticise him might as well just be writting him a big fat cheque.

And lastly yes he clearly has no respect for women what so ever. But consider, everyone who books to go to this guy's class or seminar already knows what he's about. It isn't like he was planning to tour schools corrupting young minds, anyone attending one of these events was already a misogynist, woman-hating waste of space before listening to any of his crap.

 

[Maze1125]

snip

He has choked complete strangers. Grabbed their heads and shoved his dick in their face against their will. This is sexual assault. This is a crime. This is not about speech, but he is actively instructing people to commit crimes and how they can " get away with them" this is instead a criminal activity, not free speech in any way. When he is touching and encouraging others to touch, that crosses the line between speech and action. He should not be receiving protests, he should be in jail. When his plan is to " get out of the country before they can prosecute". This is beyond ridiculous.

Calling that "censorship" is like calling a rapist teaching people how to rape and get away with it and having people pay them to do so a "legitimate business".

Woah, calm the fuck down please. No need for such a hostile tone.

I didn't want to excuse his actions at all. No, and I don't like rape either. I just feel not comfortable with banning people from entering a country just because we don't like him or what he represents. What I want to see is to get this guy to be a criminal on fucking paper. To get laws changed so that nobody can make a business of fooling people this way. What I have seen so far was just: "Nope we don't like him and his ideas, he is not allowed to enter our country. The end." In other words, I agree that he is scum but the action taken against him is wrong and doesn't help us much in the long run.

I probably should've added that. But I forgot that when it comes to topic like this, people jump very quickly to their own conclusions.

What he did IS illegal in the UK. Hence why he was banned from entering the UK.

 

[carnex]

What he did IS illegal in the UK. Hence why he was banned from entering the UK.

I will say just this much. In London outskirts, there is person that roasted 7 people alive during wars in EX Yugoslavia. And before that person applied for UK visa files on him were delivered to the UK government. Things like that are not, in any form, problem to admit people into country.

It should be (especially in horrific cases), you will not have any argument from me on that, but it isn't.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

What he did IS illegal in the UK. Hence why he was banned from entering the UK.

I will say just this much. In London outskirts, there is person that roasted 7 people alive during wars in EX Yugoslavia. And before that person applied for UK visa files on him were delivered to the UK government. Things like that are not, in any form, problem to admit people into country.

It should be (especially in horrific cases), you will not have any argument from me on that, but it isn't.

So what you are saying is rather than ban him, they should take this guy to the guy who roasts people alive to handle him?

 

[Gorrath]

So, disregarding this guys disgusting behaviour, what do you guys think of the idea of a legitimate pick up artist?
Someone who simply teaches us men how to become more attractive to women, in order to have consensual sex.
No con games,harassment, minimum amount of drugs. He just teaches us what is and isn't attractive .

I'd probably be ok with it if he wasn't encouraging sleazy behavior. Fortunatly I have the perfect person in mind.

Spoiler

http://33.media.tumblr.com/1baf054a7ddb9ae490d383df3b1f2a80/tumblr_myyhxnU6Wp1rkpfcgo4_250.gif

http://38.media.tumblr.com/cba9b7d1f5cb4c314990a6bc16a3fb2c/tumblr_myyhxnU6Wp1rkpfcgo3_250.gif

I have an almost fullproof method of picking up women. I treat them like human beings, neither unworthy slime nor sublime beings who are above me. I find it amazing that so many men (not yourself) think that either degrading women or placing them up on some high pedestal is the way to form a romantic relationship with them. Even if all a guy wants is sex, the best bet is to find a woman who just wants sex. Heaps of ridiculous praise is no more effective than veiled insults meant to break down a woman's self esteem. Sure, you might find some women such tactics are effective on, but I'll always argue that the same ends can be reached with far better means. I don't fancy myself a pick-up-artist, just someone who has had a very successful love life.

 

[Azure23]

White supremacists, Black Supremacists, NeoNazis, feminists advocating extermination of males etc are accepted regularly... it's called innocent until proven guilty.

But this guy is worse apparently. No, I can't support such actions. Hi might be asshole, but that's not grounds for refusal of entry. By that standard, no politician would cross borders.

Apologies if this has already been addressed, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna wade through another stew like this to see if someone has already responded.

And actually the UK has often refused visas to known hate preachers or others who they think have the possibility of inciting violence, especially if there is a large public outcry (such is the case here). They have a responsibility to represent the will of the people if they choose to make their voices heard, there was a very large, very public petition to prevent him from entering.

And there really is no innocent until proven guilty here, there are publicly disseminated videos of him grabbing women's heads and forcing them towards his crotch, that's sexual harassment, whether the women have chosen to go through the legal process is entirely moot at that point.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

This case? Ugh. This guy disgusts me.

Yeah, I have no problem with him being turned away at the border.

Now, I know some "freedom of speech" arguments can be made (and probably have been made), but here's the thing...Given what the guy is saying and advocating for, I'd say it's about the equivalent of yelling "fire!" in a crowded theater when there is no fire.

The guy has advocated that people rape women (literally "Pay me and rape women"), tells people to choke random women to "pick them up", and does so not even under the guise of comedy. He actually says this stuff seriously.

If a guy was giving seminars on how to get rich and he was telling people to just literally steal things they wanted and to fight anyone who tried to stop you because stealing shit is your right as the alpha male, and all you have to do is "DO IT", and people were starting to agree with him, he's also be prevented from speaking because he'd be inciting crime.

IMO, he's not being banned for "sexism", but rather being banned for inciting crimes like rape and assault.

And personally, I hope a big huge overweight wrestler walks up to him someday and pulls the face-on-crotch thing on him to see how much HE likes it when it's done to HIM.

 

[Colour Scientist]

I'd be quite pleased if no country let him in and he slowly sank beneath the rising waves while knocking on the border guard's porta-cabin door (because that's what borders look like). Glub glub glub.

He has a "bootcamp" scheduled in Dublin too but it looks like there's a similar petition telling him to fuck right off.

I'm not one for infantilisation and, in most other cases, I wouldn't be against someone just speaking but this guy is outright advocating sexual assault so yeah, I'd rather he didn't come here to carry out his Sexual Harrassment Bootcamp.

I'm torn, on the one hand it'd be cool for Ireland to follow suit and not let him in on the other hand wouldn't it be great to get a chance to piss in his beer? I mean we already know he'll definitely end up in Copper's so it'd just mean playing the waiting game.

Does that mean I'd have to go to Coppers?