'Pick-up artist' banned from the UK

[Kathinka]

snip

Not a lawyer either, but I've had some experience with a matter, so allow me to correct a little bit:

Criminals committing a crime in one nation and then feeling to another WILL very much be prosecuted, arrested in the country they fled to and brought back. It happens every day and is very common. Fleeing the country will not save you by any means. In some cases the suspect is tried in the home country instead of brought back to the country where the crime occurred. That depends on the contracts between the two countries, or individual agreements about the case.

The reason for the wikileaks guy, Julian Assange, not being brought to the USA is that he isn't a US citizen or resident and in no way obligated to follow their laws. It would be like you being shipped off and getting executed in Saudi Arabia for not wearing a Burka.
Snowden is a bit of a different and more complicated story. Had he just shanked a guy in the local 7/11, robbed the register and fled to Russia, he would have been in handcuffs as soon as the plane had touched tarmac. But since if he would possibly face torture, unlawful imprisonment and maybe (though enormously unlikely) even execution if brought back to the US, he is able to benefit from political Asylum in Russia, something that a common criminal can not do.

So, no. That Douchenozzle Blanc moving to another country doesn't prevent Japanese authorities from investigating him and even convicting him in absentia, if it comes to that. The most likely explanation is that the subjects of his actions didn't percieve them as assault, or at least not as assault severe enough to report him to be charged. Or maybe something else, but anyway: the narrative of him escaping prosecution by skipping country has no place in reality, there's something else at play here.

 

[Dragonbums]

there's something else at play here.

Good post. I didn't know all that personally.

I think the reason why nothing has happened is because the women themselves probably thought the same thing. Some random fuck shoved their heads on his crotch and the chances of local/national police doing something about it is very low so they didn't bother.

 

[gnihton]

"tricking women into having sex"

I'm sorry, what? What kind of accusation is that?

 

[NiPah]

"tricking women into having sex"

I'm sorry, what? What kind of accusation is that?

It's more like teaching which girls can be targeted to rape because they are unlikely to press charges.
The manipulation aspect plays into making sure they don't go to law enforcement/family after the rape.

It's kindof like reading a page on why so many rape victims don't go to the police, and saying "hey that would make a good class".

 

[the December King]

If someone had told me about this guy before now, I would have assumed that his work was just a sick joke, a particularly vulgar subset of humor that would maybe go alongside 'Girls Gone Wild' or just raunchy moronic comedies.

The fact that he actually had recorded assaults on women, and they seem genuine... kinda makes me sick. I try to defend men in gender issues, but this simply cannot be defended.

I wouldn't want him in my country, either.

 

[Yan007]

"tricking women into having sex"

I'm sorry, what? What kind of accusation is that?

"Yes your Honor, I would like to prosecute this man because he is a Wizard"

lol

 

[theharvan]

This is mostly in reaction to all the petitions and publicity going around, and frankly that's fine with me.
I don't think we've lost anything here, when he's coming here specifically to encourage aggressive behaviour towards women I can't see anything wrong with him being barred.
It sends a clear message: this sort of "pressuring them into sex" attitude is despicable.

 

[Kathinka]

"tricking women into having sex"

I'm sorry, what? What kind of accusation is that?

It's more like teaching which girls can be targeted to rape because they are unlikely to press charges.
The manipulation aspect plays into making sure they don't go to law enforcement/family after the rape.

It's kindof like reading a page on why so many rape victims don't go to the police, and saying "hey that would make a good class".

I would argue that manipulating someone into sex, while certainly not a nice thing to do, is nowhere near the same as rape. While one could argue that it isn't moral, it isn't illegal either, and doesn't give one any reason to go to the police with it. Regretting sex with someone doesn't make the other one a criminal.

 

[Machine Man 1992]

Unless he was convicted of crime, I see no reason to bar him from a country. This smacks of the usual feminist hysteria that seems to have Western Europe by the bollocks.

Second, what is wrong with persuading women to have sex with you?

Physically 'persuading' women. Hands to the throat until they say yes persuasion. If a person thinks that physically abusing and manipulating anyone into having sex with them, then they have no consideration for human emotion and life and are the lowest of lows. This is a 'feminist hysteria' seeing as even men agree to not having a person like him in their country giving lectures about how to get away with it, so you may be false on that. If the coward did go back to Japan, then I believe he would be facing some criminal matters concerning his grabbing head to crotch tactic but he flees before anything else happens and targets vulnerable women.

An excellent point. Still, I really, really want to believe that everyone is freaking out over something that's been blown completely out of proportion, because that's usually how these things go. "Harassment" and "sexism" and "disrespect to women" have been overused on the silliest shit, to the point that when I hear them, I immediately want to side against the people claiming it. It's not so much crying wolf and there not being a wolf, but crying wolf over feral chihuahua.

But I find it hard to believe that this is over nothing, since there apparently exists video evidence (where does one find this video?) of him pulling a woman's face to his crotch (does that work? What alien social graces does he follow? Also, what context is it in?) and being a creepy fucker to a Japanese store clerk (Does she just take it?).

 

[Something Amyss]

That'd be great actually. Bonus points if the man was video recording in secret to make his follow up series to his Japan one.

That way the hold world can be witness to the day a colossal shit lord lost his gonads, and his freedom to walk the streets.

Of if She-Hulk isn't an option it would be great to see a seemingly timid women turn him into a pretzel because she's secretly a black belt martial arts expert. Those stories always gave me a good laugh.

And a warm feeling in the cockles of my heart.

Exactly, the act is illegal, the books are not. Same goes for his seminars.

Well, except the latter falls into aiding and abetting and the former does not. That was the problem. It's a dishonest comparison.

Until we get a conviction, he has a clean record, and there's no legal grounds to ban him on.

Far as I can tell, a criminal record is not required to ban him in the UK. Can you prove this statement?

Your argument was "would you support him if he did what he's doing with murder?", and since martial arts classes, and crime dramas, and shooting classes, and all that stuff exist and that i like that they exist, things that teach violence the same way he teaches rape, then yes.

You know, I've taken multiple forms of Karate, I've taken about three weeks of Tae Kwon Do, and I took years of Aiki Jujutsu, and I don't think I ever once had an instructor tell me how to get away with killing someone by strike, weapon, grapple or pressure point. Is this what you think goes on in martial arts classes? I probably have the capacity to kill someone based upon the knowledge accrued, but there's a difference between that and Sensei saying "if you do X, you can beat the rap." Or instructing me to go somewhere where I can kill someone and get away with it. Or similar.

Similarly, I've been taught to handle firearms, and I don't think anyone's ever said "you know, if you do X you can get away with murder." Or, for that matter, "go kill X at Y with Z."

And I'm yet to see the crime drama that educates or encourages in proper crime technique. To that end, I could probably write a book on all the things these dramas get wrong and how people would likely get caught (or away with it). Which I wouldn't, because I wouldn't want to inadvertently inform a criminal. But even if I did, that would be legal. But that's not what this asshat was doing.

In his case, the equivalent would be for him to go around explicitly instructing people on how to kill people and get away with it, telling them where to go and what to do. If you teach someone chemistry, you're fine. If you teach them to make a bomb and tell them to go bomb somewhere, you're abetting.

Now if people are prosecuting him, and the UK is simply not letting him in on those grounds, then basic sanctions between the US and UK should land him square in a court room of the united states, where he can be convicted, and then go to jail, and have a criminal record to legitimately bar him from stuff if/when he gets out.

Now you're playing Schrodinger's Cat with a sex offender.

 

[Something Amyss]

[
But I find it hard to believe that this is over nothing, since there apparently exists video evidence (where does one find this video?) of him pulling a woman's face to his crotch (does that work? What alien social graces does he follow? Also, what context is it in?) and being a creepy fucker to a Japanese store clerk (Does she just take it?).

Alien social graces where certain cities in places like Japan will do nothing about it. Allegedly. Which I find sort of easy to believe.

But the biggest issue is that he's been pulling down his videos now that there are investigations. I doubt this will stop authorities, but it would make demonstrating it difficult. And I'm not sure such content would be kosher with the ToU anyway.

 

[Maze1125]

"Harassment" and "sexism" and "disrespect to women" have been overused on the silliest shit, to the point that when I hear them, I immediately want to side against the people claiming it.

I understand how you can feel that given that over-saturation can occur, but can I ask you to take a moment and think:
What's worse, when people overuse the phrases "harassment" and "sexism" and "disrespect to women", or when those things happen? And so, from there, which stance should you be taking by default?

 

[Do4600]

Apperantly, women need to be protected by the state from being persuaded into having sex. Because they are like children and can't take responsibility for themselves. Un-be-fucking-lievable.

Is he a sex offender? If yes, lock him up. If no, since when is being a slight asshole enough to being denied state entry?

Because what he demonstrates in his lectures is how to commit sexual assault. Under British Law this is a crime: (from Wikipedia)

"Inchoate means "just begun" or "undeveloped", and is used in English criminal law to refer to situations where, although a substantial offence has not been committed, the defendant has taken steps to commit it, or encouraged others to do so. As in all inchoate offences, the defendant "has not himself performed the actus reus but is sufficiently close to doing so, or persuading others to do so, for the law to find it appropriate to punish him"."

He was applying for a visa to start a tour of lectures in which British citizens would pay money for him to instruct them in how to commit a crime, I think they have sufficient grounds to deny him a visa under their law.

 

[NiPah]

"tricking women into having sex"

I'm sorry, what? What kind of accusation is that?

It's more like teaching which girls can be targeted to rape because they are unlikely to press charges.
The manipulation aspect plays into making sure they don't go to law enforcement/family after the rape.

It's kindof like reading a page on why so many rape victims don't go to the police, and saying "hey that would make a good class".

I would argue that manipulating someone into sex, while certainly not a nice thing to do, is nowhere near the same as rape. While one could argue that it isn't moral, it isn't illegal either, and doesn't give one any reason to go to the police with it. Regretting sex with someone doesn't make the other one a criminal.

Some types of manipulation blur the lines of rape, threats violence against friends or loved ones if they go to the police, threats that if they go to the police everyone will know they're a "whore", telling them they're equally at fault because it's obvious they enjoyed it.

And this isn't being used on someone sitting here thinking logically, it's used on someone that is most likely drunk, does not have a friend around them, and looks troubled, the guy was pretty explicit in who to target using his "techniques".

Psychological manipulation can be much more potent then just physical violence, and the fact that most people have no knowledge of it makes it even easier.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

Why am I not surprised? Anyone who refers to seduction as "The Game" is missing the point. I've glanced at Blanc's website, and it really is the worst example of douchebaggery imaginable. His whole spiel basically revolves around ways to make sure women CANNOT say no to a man. It's abuse disguised as reverse psychology, and it's disgusting enough to claim that the end result is a companion who actually WANTS to play into sub-dom stereotypes.

I'm 31 and still single. I could be 96 that I would NEVER rely on anything Blanc puts forward as being valid techniques.

 

[Kathinka]

"tricking women into having sex"

I'm sorry, what? What kind of accusation is that?

It's more like teaching which girls can be targeted to rape because they are unlikely to press charges.
The manipulation aspect plays into making sure they don't go to law enforcement/family after the rape.

It's kindof like reading a page on why so many rape victims don't go to the police, and saying "hey that would make a good class".

I would argue that manipulating someone into sex, while certainly not a nice thing to do, is nowhere near the same as rape. While one could argue that it isn't moral, it isn't illegal either, and doesn't give one any reason to go to the police with it. Regretting sex with someone doesn't make the other one a criminal.

Some types of manipulation blur the lines of rape, threats violence against friends or loved ones if they go to the police, threats that if they go to the police everyone will know they're a "whore", telling them they're equally at fault because it's obvious they enjoyed it.

And this isn't being used on someone sitting here thinking logically, it's used on someone that is most likely drunk, does not have a friend around them, and looks troubled, the guy was pretty explicit in who to target using his "techniques".

Psychological manipulation can be much more potent then just physical violence, and the fact that most people have no knowledge of it makes it even easier.

Well and true, but I'd still argue against the illegality (except the threats you mentioned. Blackmailing and threatening someone to have your way is clearly illegal. But I found no indication that this is part of this guys MO.)
We all employ some degree of social manipulation every day, on the job, in our social circles, and of course when flirting and looking for a potential mate. Just having a more aggressive and systematized method and targeting people that are troubled is, while mayhaps immoral, by no means illegal.

 

[NiPah]

Spoiler

"tricking women into having sex"

I'm sorry, what? What kind of accusation is that?

It's more like teaching which girls can be targeted to rape because they are unlikely to press charges.
The manipulation aspect plays into making sure they don't go to law enforcement/family after the rape.

It's kindof like reading a page on why so many rape victims don't go to the police, and saying "hey that would make a good class".

I would argue that manipulating someone into sex, while certainly not a nice thing to do, is nowhere near the same as rape. While one could argue that it isn't moral, it isn't illegal either, and doesn't give one any reason to go to the police with it. Regretting sex with someone doesn't make the other one a criminal.

Some types of manipulation blur the lines of rape, threats violence against friends or loved ones if they go to the police, threats that if they go to the police everyone will know they're a "whore", telling them they're equally at fault because it's obvious they enjoyed it.

And this isn't being used on someone sitting here thinking logically, it's used on someone that is most likely drunk, does not have a friend around them, and looks troubled, the guy was pretty explicit in who to target using his "techniques".

Psychological manipulation can be much more potent then just physical violence, and the fact that most people have no knowledge of it makes it even easier.

Well and true, but I'd still argue against the illegality (except the threats you mentioned. Blackmailing and threatening someone to have your way is clearly illegal. But I found no indication that this is part of this guys MO.)
We all employ some degree of social manipulation every day, on the job, in our social circles, and of course when flirting and looking for a potential mate. Just having a more aggressive and systematized method and targeting people that are troubled is, while mayhaps immoral, by no means illegal.

To be fair I haven't researched enough to know exactly what this guy teaches, just mostly from the news stories and cuts featured in the Japanese video.

That being said I think the use of physical force and targeting of women who won't go to the police paints this as more then just "a more aggressive systematized method" that normal people employee when hitting on people they're interested in.

I won't say it's legal or illegal because I'm not well versed in sexual assault laws, but it's not simply "tricking girls into having sex" as the first guy stated.

 

[Kathinka]

Spoiler

"tricking women into having sex"

I'm sorry, what? What kind of accusation is that?

It's more like teaching which girls can be targeted to rape because they are unlikely to press charges.
The manipulation aspect plays into making sure they don't go to law enforcement/family after the rape.

It's kindof like reading a page on why so many rape victims don't go to the police, and saying "hey that would make a good class".

I would argue that manipulating someone into sex, while certainly not a nice thing to do, is nowhere near the same as rape. While one could argue that it isn't moral, it isn't illegal either, and doesn't give one any reason to go to the police with it. Regretting sex with someone doesn't make the other one a criminal.

Some types of manipulation blur the lines of rape, threats violence against friends or loved ones if they go to the police, threats that if they go to the police everyone will know they're a "whore", telling them they're equally at fault because it's obvious they enjoyed it.

And this isn't being used on someone sitting here thinking logically, it's used on someone that is most likely drunk, does not have a friend around them, and looks troubled, the guy was pretty explicit in who to target using his "techniques".

Psychological manipulation can be much more potent then just physical violence, and the fact that most people have no knowledge of it makes it even easier.

Well and true, but I'd still argue against the illegality (except the threats you mentioned. Blackmailing and threatening someone to have your way is clearly illegal. But I found no indication that this is part of this guys MO.)
We all employ some degree of social manipulation every day, on the job, in our social circles, and of course when flirting and looking for a potential mate. Just having a more aggressive and systematized method and targeting people that are troubled is, while mayhaps immoral, by no means illegal.

To be fair I haven't researched enough to know exactly what this guy teaches, just mostly from the news stories and cuts featured in the Japanese video.

That being said I think the use of physical force and targeting of women who won't go to the police paints this as more then just "a more aggressive systematized method" that normal people employee when hitting on people they're interested in.

I won't say it's legal or illegal because I'm not well versed in sexual assault laws, but it's not simply "tricking girls into having sex" as the first guy stated.

What would she go to the police for though? (in a scenario where someone used whatever psychological mumbo jumbo, no physical force or threats or somesuch.) Purely manipulating people is nothing you can go to the cops for. We all do it, some just different than others. Now matter how unstable someone is, talking them into a decision they'll regret is by no sane definition 'rape'.

 

[NiPah]

Spoiler

"tricking women into having sex"

I'm sorry, what? What kind of accusation is that?

It's more like teaching which girls can be targeted to rape because they are unlikely to press charges.
The manipulation aspect plays into making sure they don't go to law enforcement/family after the rape.

It's kindof like reading a page on why so many rape victims don't go to the police, and saying "hey that would make a good class".

I would argue that manipulating someone into sex, while certainly not a nice thing to do, is nowhere near the same as rape. While one could argue that it isn't moral, it isn't illegal either, and doesn't give one any reason to go to the police with it. Regretting sex with someone doesn't make the other one a criminal.

Some types of manipulation blur the lines of rape, threats violence against friends or loved ones if they go to the police, threats that if they go to the police everyone will know they're a "whore", telling them they're equally at fault because it's obvious they enjoyed it.

And this isn't being used on someone sitting here thinking logically, it's used on someone that is most likely drunk, does not have a friend around them, and looks troubled, the guy was pretty explicit in who to target using his "techniques".

Psychological manipulation can be much more potent then just physical violence, and the fact that most people have no knowledge of it makes it even easier.

Well and true, but I'd still argue against the illegality (except the threats you mentioned. Blackmailing and threatening someone to have your way is clearly illegal. But I found no indication that this is part of this guys MO.)
We all employ some degree of social manipulation every day, on the job, in our social circles, and of course when flirting and looking for a potential mate. Just having a more aggressive and systematized method and targeting people that are troubled is, while mayhaps immoral, by no means illegal.

To be fair I haven't researched enough to know exactly what this guy teaches, just mostly from the news stories and cuts featured in the Japanese video.

That being said I think the use of physical force and targeting of women who won't go to the police paints this as more then just "a more aggressive systematized method" that normal people employee when hitting on people they're interested in.

I won't say it's legal or illegal because I'm not well versed in sexual assault laws, but it's not simply "tricking girls into having sex" as the first guy stated.

What would she go to the police for though? (in a scenario where someone used whatever psychological mumbo jumbo, no physical force or threats or somesuch.) Purely manipulating people is nothing you can go to the cops for. We all do it, some just different than others. Now matter how unstable someone is, talking them into a decision they'll regret is by no sane definition 'rape'.

There's a reason I've mentioned the physical aspect in almost every post I've made here.

I really dislike how you're downplaying the psychological aspect of it by calling it "talking them into a decision they'll regret" but yes, it's not rape, just really fucked up.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

We aren't talking about him just hopping state lines here. This is leaving the country entirely, which is MUCH harder to chase you over.

If you hop state lines, it becomes harder to arrest you since the police in the state you committed the crime aren't allowed to pursue justice outside of their state (jurisdiction), meaning they have to co-ordinate with the police in the area you are in order to bust you, which takes time to do, especially since the new state you've gone to isn't likely to have extensive records on you. You're not the first to think "oh I could just hop state lines after a robbery". LOTS of criminals do it. It's not "invalid" because you left the state. It's just more time consuming and difficult for the cops, so for smaller crimes, they tend to get ignored.

Now amp that up to 11 when it comes to hopping countries.

There's a REASON why Edward Snowden and the WikiLeaks guy haven't been arrested and brought back to the US. It's because nations do NOT have police authority in other countries. You can't just send a US cop to go arrest someone on UK soil, for example. It's a violation of that nation's sovereign rights and will REALLY piss them off (it used to be considered an act of war, even). Some countries have extradition treaties to make the process easier (it becomes similar to just hopping state lines in that case. They get the information on the suspect and then arrest him and send him back), but in a lot of cases if you go to a new country it becomes impossible to prosecute you for crimes done in another country and massively inconvenient to arrest you and send you BACK to that country for prosecution. I doubt japan is going to raise enough fuss about this guy sexually assaulting some women that the US or UK will get off their asses and arrest him and send him back. Too much paperwork and effort for them to arrest the guy, considering he didn't commit murder or grand robbery or anything "huge". He "just" sexually assaulted a bunch of women. Hardly something most nations will think is worth the time to chase someone in another country for.

Now, if king moron DOES go back to Japan, he's liable to be arrested for his crimes. But as long as he doesn't go back (or waits until the statue of limitations on the crime expires), it becomes unlikely he'll ever be prosecuted for what he did.

Oh, and before you think "perfect bank heist plan away!", consider that banks have a lot of money and pride and will be able to leverage for your arrest and extradition muuuuuuuch easier than if you had done a crime against someone with much less power and pressure.

(BTW, I'm not a lawyer either.)

Read Kathinka's post.

And then go read the first two paragraphs of the Wikipedia article on Kim Dotcom.

And then consider that Julian Assange is living in an embassy and cannot leave it due to knowledge that he would be immediately arrested and extradited to either Sweden or the US.

And recognize that Snowden isn't in jail because he's living in a country that has no extradition treaty with the US, and that he fled his original destination, Hong Kong, despite not having violated any local laws - why would he do that if the Hong Kong cops couldn't round him up and ship him back to us?

You've got a strange notion of the way the law works. You can still very much be indicted even if you've fled the state, or the country. Your actual arrest may be tougher (mildly or considerably, depending on where you go), but the idea that we just throw our hands up and say there's nothing to be done because you got on a plane? That's ridiculous, and not at all true.

I understand that you people don't like the guy and want him stung to death by scorpions because he kissed girls, but all these claims about how he's a mass sexual assaulter that's just been wily enough to evade prosecution hold no water, at least when made in this particular time continuum.

Him kissing the girls is not what people are most upset about ( that is bad but by far not the worst this guy has done), however, the videos of him randomly grabbing strangers heads and shoving their faces in his genitals by force is why they are calling him a mass sexual assaulter, because he is and yes due to the video footage, he very well may be facing arrest in Japan since he fled the country before they would have time to charge him, then there was the issues of putting his hands on the throats and choking women and threatening them as well. I am not aware what he did in Hong Kong, it was what he did in Tokyo that is the problem here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK4eUKUveOY

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Sexual+Contact
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/sexual+assault
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/920