'Pick-up artist' banned from the UK

[Something Amyss]

Thankfully they're banned from the UK to.

I think I knew that, because that rings a bell.

You say that, but I believe there's a footballer and convicted rapist whose effectively been given a slap on the wrist and allowed back into the sport despite being an unrepentant rapist.

There's no "but" here unless you're saying I believe that's okay. At best, I'm unaware of this story you believed happened. Who was it? Did they serve any actual time? Are sporting associations the pinnacle of morality to which we should aspire?

I just feel not comfortable with banning people from entering a country just because we don't like him or what he represents.

The problem is you're reframing the issue.

What he "represents" is criminal acts. Would you feel the same way about pedophilesd?

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

So, disregarding this guys disgusting behaviour, what do you guys think of the idea of a legitimate pick up artist?
Someone who simply teaches us men how to become more attractive to women, in order to have consensual sex.

What, like a dating coach?

Those can be great. I went to a seminar hosted by Spike Spencer at a local anime convention over the summer, and it was kinda life changing. Got me to finally make that step towards not being a doormat for everyone.

The guy wasn't doling out tips for "picking up chicks". Hell, he opened by saying "If you're here to get quick tips on getting laid with random women as quick as possible, this panel isn't for you".

Instead, he offered advice on how to become more confident, and how to impress girls (Specifically by cooking, and catching on to when some women try to "test" you). That and stuff like "If you like a girl, ask for a date. Do NOT, however, expect a yes. Never expect a yes. That way you don't get hurt feelings and can just move on with your life and brush it off. Believe it or not, that makes you MORE attractive to them.".

Essentially his advice boiled down to "Care about yourself, make yourself better. Make yourself FEEL better to those around you. You want a one-in-a-million girl? Become a one in a million man. You WILL find someone."

You know, the contrast between Spike and that Julian guy are basically night and day.

One is a happily (recently) married man who tells you how to better yourself and please women.

The other is a loser creep who tells you to choke women and shove their faces into your crotch, and to target women who are submissive or vulnerable so you can get away with it.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Quick question.

How the fuck do you trick someone into having sex with you? Surely you just act charming then you ask. Does this guy get girls drunk then have sex with them? because thats not tricking them, thats just taking advantage of the drunk which isn't hard. But seriously how do you go about tricking someone into it? Promise wine gums and a free CD after your done? and then refuse to give them anything? Because if you promise to give someone something in return for sex (who's not a prostitute) they sort of deserve to be duped, man or woman they should be excersising more self control.

Girl: Wow Julien that sex was incredibly average!
Julien: I know baby
Girl: So where are my free wine gums and CD?
Julien: *leans in close* I tricked you... there are no wine gums or CD.

People work on a system, a system that can be manipulated.
Address someone with a negative comment and they will be compelled to argue, if you resolve that argument with a positive comment they will think they won you over. Tell engaging stories and cut to another half way through makes it appear you two always have more to talk about. Give them opportunity for their stories and figure out what makes them tick. Later on promise them things they told you they liked. Give them an item of yours to hold and it creates the compulsion to stick around. Light meaningless touches on hands or shoulders break the physical contact barrier. Convincing them to escort you to a new location, even if five feet away creates a sense of grouping and familiarity. Put on a fake smile, some fake confidence, look people in the eyes, don't respond to the other parties suggestions, apologize or make excuses,... gives the appearance of leadership.
So on and so fort, you can probably see where all that is going.

In essence it's the exact same manipulative bullshit every self taught "playa" has learned with trial and error, now put into a step by step guide.

 

[V4Viewtiful]

I swear, the more I read this thread the more this guy morphs into the bastard child of Quagmire and Barney Stinson

 

[Dagda Mor]

It's ridiculous to ban him when you some of the people let in, war criminals, Muslim hate preachers, convicted rapist and murderers. It was largely a publicity stunt by May. Just another example of the rule of law being subverted by mawkish "mob rule" trial by popularity.

Here's what I'm hearing: "If a bad person gets in, you can't exclude any other bad people." Who else they let in and whether they're worse than this guy is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that this guy shouldn't be let in.

 

[Dagda Mor]

To the people saying that he has no criminal record: We know for a fact that he specifically targets people who won't report him for sexual harassment, and performs sexual harassment on them, which is a crime. You can see it in material that he himself has released to the public. He teaches people to perform criminal acts without getting in trouble. He is not just someone accused of sexism or criminal acts without solid proof--he is someone who we know has committed criminal acts without getting in trouble, and teaches others his methods. It's like if OJ Simpson started a class on how to get away with murder. Frankly, it's a miracle that he hasn't been convicted in court yet.

 

[Lieju]

Quick question.

How the fuck do you trick someone into having sex with you? Surely you just act charming then you ask. Does this guy get girls drunk then have sex with them? because thats not tricking them, thats just taking advantage of the drunk which isn't hard. But seriously how do you go about tricking someone into it? Promise wine gums and a free CD after your done? and then refuse to give them anything? Because if you promise to give someone something in return for sex (who's not a prostitute) they sort of deserve to be duped, man or woman they should be excersising more self control.

Girl: Wow Julien that sex was incredibly average!
Julien: I know baby
Girl: So where are my free wine gums and CD?
Julien: *leans in close* I tricked you... there are no wine gums or CD.

People work on a system, a system that can be manipulated.
Address someone with a negative comment and they will be compelled to argue, if you resolve that argument with a positive comment they will think they won you over. Tell engaging stories and cut to another half way through makes it appear you two always have more to talk about. Give them opportunity for their stories and figure out what makes them tick. Later on promise them things they told you they liked. Give them an item of yours to hold and it creates the compulsion to stick around. Light meaningless touches on hands or shoulders break the physical contact barrier. Convincing them to escort you to a new location, even if five feet away creates a sense of grouping and familiarity. Put on a fake smile, some fake confidence, look people in the eyes, don't respond to the other parties suggestions, apologize or make excuses,... gives the appearance of leadership.
So on and so fort, you can probably see where all that is going.

In essence it's the exact same manipulative bullshit every self taught "playa" has learned with trial and error, now put into a step by step guide.

Ah, it gets worse. I have read up on the kind of advice these kinds of scumbags give, and where it gets creepy and (even more)rapey is when they start talking about how you can make a woman feel they can't say no, or how you can mislead a woman to think you don't want sex so you can get closer to them, how you can make a woman to trust you just so you can break that trust later. And what kinds of women you should target because they're in a vulnerable position, and how to PUT women in a vulnerable position.

I'm not going to give specific examples, because I'm not gonna spread that kind of 'advice', but it tends to be the kind of stuff that would work on people in general.
But usually it is very misogynistic, in a sense that I really get the feeling they hate women. They think they should be having all this sex, and women are keeping them from it, so they hate women for it.

 

[Maze1125]

What he did IS illegal in the UK. Hence why he was banned from entering the UK.

I will say just this much. In London outskirts, there is person that roasted 7 people alive during wars in EX Yugoslavia. And before that person applied for UK visa files on him were delivered to the UK government. Things like that are not, in any form, problem to admit people into country.

All that is an argument for is that neither person should have been let into the country. It is in no way an argument that both should have been.

Just because person A got away with crime X doesn't mean person B should be allowed to get away with crime Y for the sake of "fairness".

 

[DefunctTheory]

Quick question.

How the fuck do you trick someone into having sex with you? Surely you just act charming then you ask. Does this guy get girls drunk then have sex with them? because thats not tricking them, thats just taking advantage of the drunk which isn't hard. But seriously how do you go about tricking someone into it? Promise wine gums and a free CD after your done? and then refuse to give them anything? Because if you promise to give someone something in return for sex (who's not a prostitute) they sort of deserve to be duped, man or woman they should be excersising more self control.

Girl: Wow Julien that sex was incredibly average!
Julien: I know baby
Girl: So where are my free wine gums and CD?
Julien: *leans in close* I tricked you... there are no wine gums or CD.

There's one way. Basically the electric method - engineer a situation where the lady goes through the path of least resistance (Out on the dance floor), then do it again (Towards the door), then again (Away from friends), until after a hundred seemingly small decisions your suddenly at his hotel door, and only a ***** turns back at that point (EDIT: That last part is not my opinion, just a illustration of what starts at that point).

Captcha: Civil Engineer

 

[Atmos Duality]

Why is this even an issues? Just charge the creep with sexual assault and be done with it.
Christ.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Wow, I'm truly amazed by the huge amount of people advocating murder, torture, and general all-around malicious actions to the guy, simply for being an asshole. Seriously guys, he's a sleazy SOB,don't get me wrong, but that doesn't excuse any of this crap you want to do to him.

Personally, I'd ban you all from every country I could get behind the idea, because you're all advocating PHYSICAL AND BODILY HARM ON ANOTHER HUMAN BECAUSE THE GUY'S A SLEAZEBALL. That's a hell of alot more dangerous than a guy teaching people how to get away with whatever their genitals wants them to do.

I don't care that you think it's justified, it's bull, and the kindergartner in all of you explaining in extensive detail how much pain you want to cause him knows it.

captcha: Ladies first

Oh that's just sickening or incredibly hilarious depending on your own views....

Love how you gloss over the sexual assault and just call it him being an asshole.

Pretty amazing to see where some people's sympathies lie in this thread. People can object to him being banned and not seem overly sympathetic, though probably misinformed. But you can't really gloss over the sexual assault and pretend the hate is just about him being sleazy without making it clear which side you're on.

 

[Parasondox]

Why is this even an issues? Just charge the creep with sexual assault and be done with it.
Christ.

Why is this an issue? Well because those who choose to pay and listen to him, will have the high intention of carrying out the "advice" he is giving out and cause more problems in the long run.

Or are you just one of those commentators who always goes "Why is this an issue" or "Why is this a big deal", without looking into detail of the situation? We shall never know.

 

[Redryhno]

From a purely objective point of view, I think a bunch of people talking on the internet about wanting to beat up one guy is less dangerous than letting that one guy actively get away with sexual assault and the teaching thereof to legions of men who also want to get away with sexual assault. They're both crimes, to be sure, but one of them outweighs the other in sheer awfulness.

So, what you're saying is, it's perfectly ok to talk about his murder to legions of people who want to do the same, because he has a smaller audience that probably will do what he teaches them to do. And you're right, I'd argue that half of the things presented here are much worse than him shoving women's faces into his crotch and choking them. You'd think that if he's as infamous as he is in this thread, any woman that he did it to now would scratch out his eyes or tug very forcefully on his crotch if he tried any of that.

Let the guy talk and spread awareness for women on how to recognize his type of creep. And if need be, how to defend themselves from his advances.

But, it's really silly to think that everyone that watches him is trying to get away with SA. I don't know anything myself, but I have one friend who watched some of his stuff and it helped her go out when she wanted instead of being afraid of leaving her apartment.

You want to know why? Because she said he made it easier to spot the creeps like him, people looking for a date, and the people that just wanted to boink. Before for her it was most of the first, a tiny bit of the second, and none of the last.

So, in a twisted way, I'm grateful to the guy, because he made one of my best friends not be afraid of him by just doing his own crap.

Love how you gloss over the sexual assault and just call it him being an asshole.

Pretty amazing to see where some people's sympathies lie in this thread. People can object to him being banned and not seem overly sympathetic, though probably misinformed. But you can't really gloss over the sexual assault and pretend the hate is just about him being sleazy without making it clear which side you're on.

Okay, let's get it sorted out now then. I think he's one of the lower forms of human. That's the nicest way I can say what I think of the guy without dropping into expletives and apoplexy. I have no sympathies for the guy, so you're very much wrong there. However, he's still human, and he deserves the same rights as any other bean.

Which is why I'm very much opposed to him being banned though. But that's mainly because I believe people care enough about it to actually do something when he's there instead of building up his reputation when he's now been banned from two countries.

I could fully understand Japan not allowing him entry, because he did something very specific there that he hasn't other places. He's talked online and been a douche, there he went about breaking the lines of decency(in the past he merely fervently pushed them to the limits).

 

[Smooth Operator]

But usually it is very misogynistic, in a sense that I really get the feeling they hate women. They think they should be having all this sex, and women are keeping them from it, so they hate women for it.

Well in about the same say a salesman hates you when he is manipulating you into buying his shit, or when a politician is manipulating you into votes or some asinine campaign.
Or if we go the other way, a woman dressing up barely on the side of legality throwing around suggestive comments, compliments, promises, looks, dancing/humping up against people,... falls under the same manipulation for sex. I doubt anyone would call that side an expression of hate.

Basic fact of life is someone will try to play you anywhere you go, so I would honestly suggest everyone reads up on social manipulation to understand when it's going on.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Why is this even an issues? Just charge the creep with sexual assault and be done with it.
Christ.

Yes, but that isn't near as entertaining as letting him spend his money and time trying to get into all these nations to only have them slam the door in his face...
People want to pay him money so they can be banned from every nation on earth? LOL For all of the women who didn't get to charge him with assault and are watching this.. KARMA.. He got what was coming.

 

[Lieju]

But usually it is very misogynistic, in a sense that I really get the feeling they hate women. They think they should be having all this sex, and women are keeping them from it, so they hate women for it.

Well in about the same say a salesman hates you when he is manipulating you into buying his shit, or when a politician is manipulating you into votes or some asinine campaign.
Or if we go the other way, a woman dressing up barely on the side of legality throwing around suggestive comments, compliments, promises, looks, dancing/humping up against people,... falls under the same manipulation for sex. I doubt anyone would call that side an expression of hate.

Basic fact of life is someone will try to play you anywhere you go, so I would honestly suggest everyone reads up on social manipulation to understand when it's going on.

There is a difference in a salesman who is manipulating you into buying his shit, and a salesman who thinks your money already belongs to them and hates you for it and thinks using coercion and lies is acceptable because you are not worthy of respect.

Once this sort of thing crosses into a territory where you don't respect the right of the woman (or other person) right to refuse, and where you start dehumanizing them, then I'm starting to see hate there.
Not to mention I have gotten personal hate from one the guys who bought into this kind of philosophy. He believed every woman could somehow be 'hacked', and it was pretty obvious he did not consider women equals. He especially hated lesbians because I guess we cheat his hacking system or something? Uh, he was a nasty piece of work.

Trying to be appealing and charming to get sex is quite different from the kind I'm talking about. The kind where it's not about sex, but control and manipulation of the other person.

 

[DementedSheep]

Love how you gloss over the sexual assault and just call it him being an asshole.

Pretty amazing to see where some people's sympathies lie in this thread. People can object to him being banned and not seem overly sympathetic, though probably misinformed. But you can't really gloss over the sexual assault and pretend the hate is just about him being sleazy without making it clear which side you're on.

Okay, let's get it sorted out now then. I think he's one of the lower forms of human. That's the nicest way I can say what I think of the guy without dropping into expletives and apoplexy. I have no sympathies for the guy, so you're very much wrong there. However, he's still human, and he deserves the same rights as any other bean.

Which is why I'm very much opposed to him being banned though. But that's mainly because I believe people care enough about it to actually do something when he's there instead of building up his reputation when he's now been banned from two countries.

I could fully understand Japan not allowing him entry, because he did something very specific there that he hasn't other places. He's talked online and been a douche, there he went about breaking the lines of decency(in the past he merely fervently pushed them to the limits).

He dose have the same rights as everyone else. They are not making a special exception for him. They have control over their own border and do not have to let you into the country. It's in law that they can turn people away and they do so all the time. So he isn't having any rights taken away, they just aren't giving him something. If I run a house where I'm letting people stay I'm not breaching someone's rights if I say to them "no, you have reputation of being a douche and I don't want you here". The only country that has to put up with your shit and can't bar you entry is the one you were born in.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Love how you gloss over the sexual assault and just call it him being an asshole.

Pretty amazing to see where some people's sympathies lie in this thread. People can object to him being banned and not seem overly sympathetic, though probably misinformed. But you can't really gloss over the sexual assault and pretend the hate is just about him being sleazy without making it clear which side you're on.

Okay, let's get it sorted out now then. I think he's one of the lower forms of human. That's the nicest way I can say what I think of the guy without dropping into expletives and apoplexy. I have no sympathies for the guy, so you're very much wrong there. However, he's still human, and he deserves the same rights as any other bean.

Which is why I'm very much opposed to him being banned though. But that's mainly because I believe people care enough about it to actually do something when he's there instead of building up his reputation when he's now been banned from two countries.

I could fully understand Japan not allowing him entry, because he did something very specific there that he hasn't other places. He's talked online and been a douche, there he went about breaking the lines of decency(in the past he merely fervently pushed them to the limits).

He dose have the same rights as everyone else. They are not making a special exceptions for him. They have control over their own border and do not have to let you into the country. It's in law that they can turn people away and they do so all the time. He isn't having any rights taken away, they just aren't giving him something. If I run a house where I'm letting people stay I'm not breaching someone's rights if I say to them "no, you have reputation of being a douche and I don't want you here". The only country that has to put up with your shit and can't bar you entry is the one you were born in.

I guess they have to put up with you unless they exile you. Darn.. I don't think the US can exile this guy.

 

[Kieran Chakravorty]

Happy to see this guy banned from entry in to the country, however it doesn't say this kind of attitude isn't tolerated. Plenty of Brits have these kinds of attitudes and get away with it merely because they are local to this country. Personally I believe we have to have the same standards applied to all, no matter what country they live or originate in because this world is only getting smaller and one day we will have to unite, although I accept that is getting a bit above and beyond the point. Still, baby steps people, baby steps.

On a bigger note I believe people like this have to be reformed in the same way criminals are, but I haven't the foggiest on how to do that.

 

[Redryhno]

He dose have the same rights as everyone else. They are not making a special exceptions for him. They have control over their own border and do not have to let you into the country. It's in law that they can turn people away and they do so all the time. He isn't having any rights taken away, they just aren't giving him something. If I run a house where I'm letting people stay I'm not breaching someone's rights if I say to them "no, you have reputation of being a douche and I don't want you here". The only country that has to put up with your shit and can't bar you entry is the one you were born in.

But that's exactly the point. They are denying him the right/privilege/etc. to enter the country when I'm sure they've let all manner of other nasty individuals through. It's a very flimsy excuse that means they're playing favorites, and it's crap like that that only heightens his profile and makes his style of thinking thought of as a legitimate lifestyle by the 4edgy5u crowds.