You know for a second I thought you were saying those gifs were bad advice and I was thoroughly confused (you're not right).erttheking said:
'Pick-up artist' banned from the UK
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Cause what he is doing is not free speech and just his opinion. He is actually teaching men how to manipulate, abuse and physically and psychologically assault women. So it's not just his opinion but his actions too. As I am aware, any country has the authority to refuse anyone they wish if they aren't already a citizen. Also as many has stated before, no one has the "right" to enter any country they choose.WhiteNachos said:
Yah we're just so jealous of all of your freedoms.WhiteNachos said:
We didn't stop this guy from speaking, there are just consequences for what he said. That's not against free speech.
You can yell fire in a movie theatre if you want to, they'll still arrest you for it, though.
Freedom of speech is not the freedom from all consequences of speech.
This seems totally dumb, I am fairly certain the only people who are giving this guy publicity are the people denouncing him. Reminds me of the "fake geek girl" issue, nobody actually believes it but the idea is propagated by people who feel they need to voice their denouncement of it.
As for the politics, I am pretty sure this is just shoved onto the forefront as a hot button issue to distract people from more boring but MUCH more important issues. Same as Putin did with the anti homosexual posturing, nobody pays attention to the real bullshit hes doing if he fakes doing some more interesting bullshit.
I mean come on, are we going to have lists of men who belong to frats, alongside possible terrorism suspects to be checked out at the airport? Hes just an asshole, that's it.
However, i am ever so slightly interested in how often he gets laid using tactics like this, do women really fall for/are manipulated by this kind of behavior? If not, then what threat does he pose? And if so..... ugh.
As for the politics, I am pretty sure this is just shoved onto the forefront as a hot button issue to distract people from more boring but MUCH more important issues. Same as Putin did with the anti homosexual posturing, nobody pays attention to the real bullshit hes doing if he fakes doing some more interesting bullshit.
I mean come on, are we going to have lists of men who belong to frats, alongside possible terrorism suspects to be checked out at the airport? Hes just an asshole, that's it.
However, i am ever so slightly interested in how often he gets laid using tactics like this, do women really fall for/are manipulated by this kind of behavior? If not, then what threat does he pose? And if so..... ugh.
I hate it when people simplify free speech that way.Phasmal said:
If the government threw you in jail for an anti-government poem you could also defend that with "well free speech doesn't mean there's no consequences for your speech". Edit: Meant to say that free speech is specifically about consequences/punishment from the government for certain speech.
In the US that's precedent that has been overturned a while ago. Right now I believe the current standard is promoting imminent lawless action (the difference between "assault isn't a bad thing" and "let's beat this guy up right now").Phasmal said:
I was going to dismiss this idea but then I thought that if he knew he was probably going to be banned anyway then this would be a great publicity stunt.Reasonable Atheist said:
Also I know it's nitpicky but I doubt no one believes that stuff, maybe a tiny few, but a million people want to denounce/mock those people so it seems like there's more of them than there really are (I'm talking both fake geek girl and this particular brand of dating advice).
I'll be completely honest reading the title I was like "Oh great another fucking thread about how evil men are"
Glad to see that I have read up on the topic though since this guy is CLEARLY crossing many many lines as far as I am concerned, verbal abuse isn't nice but free speech and all that, but once you start getting physical with someone with NO consent or anything of the sort that is a major line crossed. I do think that some women are very manipulative of men and we should talk and help male victims of such things, but this is not a case of some poor sap accidentally running into some woman on at the bus stop and she sues him because "he touched my shoulder"
This is a case of some freakish asshole running around the streets of several places touching, feeling, and kissing any random woman he can get his hands on, fuck this guy, not sure if it's right to ban him outright but honestly how has he not been arrested yet? There is obvious evidence of what this guy has done, this isn't a poor sap getting falsely accused, there is video evidence of him walking the streets of Japan forcing random girl's faces into his crotch and then him bragging about it
*sigh* This type of behavior is unacceptable and crosses so many lines, and the fact that the women he as blatantly physically abused being too afraid of him to speak up absolutely disgusts me
PS: For those I have seen defend him I understand your reaction initially, I had the same reaction but read up on this freak that calls himself human and you'll find that Britian had very reasonable grounds for their actions
Glad to see that I have read up on the topic though since this guy is CLEARLY crossing many many lines as far as I am concerned, verbal abuse isn't nice but free speech and all that, but once you start getting physical with someone with NO consent or anything of the sort that is a major line crossed. I do think that some women are very manipulative of men and we should talk and help male victims of such things, but this is not a case of some poor sap accidentally running into some woman on at the bus stop and she sues him because "he touched my shoulder"
This is a case of some freakish asshole running around the streets of several places touching, feeling, and kissing any random woman he can get his hands on, fuck this guy, not sure if it's right to ban him outright but honestly how has he not been arrested yet? There is obvious evidence of what this guy has done, this isn't a poor sap getting falsely accused, there is video evidence of him walking the streets of Japan forcing random girl's faces into his crotch and then him bragging about it
*sigh* This type of behavior is unacceptable and crosses so many lines, and the fact that the women he as blatantly physically abused being too afraid of him to speak up absolutely disgusts me
PS: For those I have seen defend him I understand your reaction initially, I had the same reaction but read up on this freak that calls himself human and you'll find that Britian had very reasonable grounds for their actions
It was more in the spirit of the phrase and I was giving my expressed endorsement for that spirit. As for freedom of speech in the UK, Wikipedia's entry on the subject is enlightneing and more than reinforces his being denied the privilege of entry. Just like the women he's targeting.WhiteNachos said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country#United_Kingdom
I'll also add that I am completely exhausted with free speech being used to excuse everything, even within US boundaries. The KKK and the NAZI party would love to deny those rights to everybody else while inciting hated. Yelling fire in a theatre (which really hasn't been overturned in spirit. Try yelling out "BOMB" in an airport) should be grounds for arrest as it could easily lead to people getting hurt for no real reason.
The UK is under no obligation in any conceivable form to let anybody in. They do so of their own free will and that can just as easily be revoked. The default status as far as any government is concerned is no and they have to grant you entry. Even if you fit their already fairly strict allowances, if they don't like you because you promote rape, murder, hatred or sending in your immigration application on Friday an hour before closing, tough shit for you.insaninater said:
I don't know why you bring up the KKK and the Nazi party? American free speech laws protect them too. You can say all sorts of nasty things about Jews/blacks/whites/whoever joking or not, and it's covered since it's mostly just opinion.PainInTheAssInternet said:
The ACLU (which is pretty liberal) fought for free speech for Nazis over here.
My point was I don't agree with that position. Don't understand the relevance of your statement about ACLU being liberal.WhiteNachos said:
Wait wait wait. Allow me to test the waters here. So if someone in the US said to an audience in a serious manner,WhiteNachos said:
"If I see another black person I will kill them and and if I see any young underage girl and she's all alone, I will have my way with her and no one can do anything about it",
that would be free speech?
I honestly have no clue. I'm not a lawyerParadox SuXcess said:
What would be free speech is if he said underage girls/black people/whatever are evil, scummy, subhuman or whatever.
But I was talking about that direct example. Or better yet, let me link it to the person we are discussing. How about if someone said in a lecture or group or whereverWhiteNachos said:
"Hey, if you listen to what I have to say, by the end of it, I will teach you how to groom underage kids and no one will ever know about it. I will also teach you how to ruin another persons life through torment and psychological harm that will make them kill themselves at the end of it."
Is that under "free speech" in the US? I am generally curious here cause I do not know where the actually line is in terms of Free Speech anymore.
I don't know but there's a chance it might be.Paradox SuXcess said:
There's a guy who wrote survivalist books for the extreme survivalist crowd (the 'I need to prepare in case all of society collapses' crowd).
In those books he teaches you how to make explosives, hunt people and how to make a man trap. And from what I hear the books themselves are covered by the first amendment even though the things he teaches you how to do are not.
Again I am not a lawyer so I'm not 100% certain on this.
Yeah, im pretty sure teaching people psychological manipulation is legal. Teaching people how to inflict physical harm is totally legal.Paradox SuXcess said:
Here il do it right now, if you want an immature person to form a bond with you and trust you, imitate their behavior and mannerisms. If you can, always stand or sit on their dominate side ie left or right handed. Am i banned from the UK now?
I am not talking about whether it's legal or not but if it falls under free speech? but does that even sound like you wish to do harm to that person and shown examples of you doing it yourself to an immature person? The person in question, "Pick Up Artist", did record his actions and demonstrated it to an audience as inspiration. If you went down the route he did then maybe you should be banned but that's down to the Home Office.Reasonable Atheist said:
From his tweets and other sources it seems he picks girls who seem "broken", submissive, naive or otherwise vulnerable. Then he messes with their heads and threatens them until he gets what he wants, and the victim is too afraid or ashamed to do anything (after all, he said that he assumes all girls who sleep with him are sluts, so it's safe to assume he shames them after he's done with them to keep them quiet). It's not like he can sleep with literally any girl he wants. Just the ones that are easy to manipulate for whatever reason.Reasonable Atheist said:
If he pulled that on some of the girls I know, specifically that goth girl I'm friend with...Yeah, he'd be in for a nasty situation. Boot. To crotch. For starters. She's intimidating as hell to ME, and I'm one of her friends!
Like seriousley, this guy is apiece of shit. And not a piece of shit like "LOL femenism" kinds,t he really is a creep.
Some of these self declared "Pickup Artists" (god damn does that phrase leave a bad taste in my mouth) ARE rather successful in what they are doing (although I'm sure lots of it is just fabrication and bragging). The thing is that a lot of the behavior they teach and practice overlaps with what is, consciously and subconsciously, attractive to girls, often coming down to basic biological principles of the selection of a desirable father for offspring. Confidence makes you assume he has something to offer as a potential mate, aggressiveness suggest the ability to defend and provide for the tribe and the family, signals of desinterest, indifference to rejection and seemingly unreasonable demands suggest he has a large pool of women to pick from, so he clearly must have something that is desirable. And so on.Reasonable Atheist said:
That being said, a reputable dating coach or expert can teach you much much more about how to be successful with the objects of your desire without putting up a facade that only lasts one night at the very best.
pretending? I was under the assumption we never had it. hate speech is a crime here.WhiteNachos said:
We ain't America, no constitution, for better or worse. in this case, I'd say better