Piracy, Not Consoles, Killed the PC Exclusive

[JonnWood]

It seems companies like Valve, CD Projekt (I'd mention Blizzard but they do run an MMO) and many indie developers manage just fine even with the piracy.
If you make a good game, people will buy it. If you just make a clone of another successful game (like Titan Quest), don't expect too many people to buy it. Especially if you include annoying DRM.
Yes, the PC does have a piracy problem, but it's not big enough to make developing for it not worth it.

Clearly, developers disagree. See also; Crysis. People are more likely to pirate popular/good games, not less, DRM or not (The Witcher 2). DRM's actual effect is negligible, and no one is responsible for people choosing to pirate their game. That's he equivalent of "She was asking for it, your Honor!"

 

[Aprilgold]

...
I'm going to keep sticking to it, because it is mainly true. Piracy is a service issue. If you make your customer jump through flaming hopes of fucking fire, then they are obviously not going to like you very much. Or offer a copy of a game that is basically a beta for a full 60$. Or have tons of game breaking flaws. Or highly intrusive DRM. If you treat pirates a competitor rather then a enemy then you will get better results.

They aren't competitors anymore than a leaky pipe is part of your plumbing system.

Serve out a better service then what pirates can do and you essentially defeated the main cause of piracy, distrust between company and customer.

Even games with no DRM still have lots of piracy, most recently the Witcher 2, as well as games on Steam. People pirate because they want something they didn't pay for, not because of any service issue. Just because you don't like the game doesn't mean you deserve it for free.

Treating them as competitors would push Developers to make better games so people will want to buy their title

Hold on while I fetch the peak of people on Steam today. 4,800,329 people. Lets say that all of them at least bought one sixy dollar title on steam, we also will say that 329 didn't buy anything. It will have about 288 million dollars in revenue from the dollars they spent. Lets say that 1,000 pirated a game, and sine we can't accurantely say that its a lost sale, were going to cut the price in half to 30$. It will come out to 30,000 lost US dollars. If we then minus 30,000 by 288 million, we will get 287,970,000 dollars in revenue to Steam. For simplicitys sake, it was a Valve made game.

If we were to do what I did above to every single pirated game we may have a accurate estimation on whether or not Piracy is a worse offender then Pre-Owned games.

And give me more examples. You don't see Music, which also suffers from piracy, trying to eradicate it as much as we are.

...
It seems to me that games that have the most successful sales records are also the most pirated ones. Meaning that if piracy was killing them, they should not be successful or profitable. But yet they are able to profit and grow.

Because those are the only games that are affected by piracy, right? They succeed in spite of piracy. Crytek said Crysis 1 was pirated at a rate of 15 to 1. 15 legit copies to every bought one. And lo and behold, the next game isn't PC-exclusive.

Right, because piracy is a PC exclusive thing. Console games, whether devs like it or not, gets pirated as often as PC titles do. Also, Crysis was not very good, while fun, I didn't exactly find its quality as good as it should have been, several missed opportunities.

 

[DayDark]

...
It seems to me that games that have the most successful sales records are also the most pirated ones. Meaning that if piracy was killing them, they should not be successful or profitable. But yet they are able to profit and grow.

Because those are the only games that are affected by piracy, right? They succeed in spite of piracy. Crytek said Crysis 1 was pirated at a rate of 15 to 1. 15 legit copies to every bought one. And lo and behold, the next game isn't PC-exclusive.

Hit the nail on the head there


"We are suffering currently from the huge piracy that is encompassing Crysis. We seem to lead the charts in piracy by a large margin, a chart leading that is not desirable. I believe that?s the core problem of PC Gaming, piracy, to the degree [that PC gamers who] pirate games inherently destroy the platform. Similar games on consoles sell factors of 4-5 more. It was a big lesson for us and I believe we won?t have PC exclusives as we did with Crysis in future."

- Cevat Yerly, co-founder and CEO of Crytek

source = http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2008/05/09/crytek-and-epic-lost-millions-because-of-piracy-and-are-now-switching-game-development-away-from-pc.htm

 

[M4t3us]

And by the way... Titan quest wasn't excellent by any means or measure, it was poorly optimized bucket of shit, crawling with bugs and graphics so bad that actually made Diablo II look good by comparison. So no, I'm not buying the newest ripoff of a Blizzard IP from a repeat offender!
At least not until he drops the pompous douchebag attitude and hones up to what he is, a Zynga wannabe.

(On a side note, I can see the warning coming, but honestly I stand by what I said!)

 

[Meight08]

Because those are the only games that are affected by piracy, right? They succeed in spite of piracy. Crytek said Crysis 1 was pirated at a rate of 15 to 1. 15 legit copies to every bought one. And lo and behold, the next game isn't PC-exclusive.

Console games, whether devs like it or not, gets pirated as often as PC titles do.

YOU are lying.
The most pirated game on consoles was mario galaxy 2 with 1.2 million illegal donwloads.
the most pirated game on pc was crysis 2. With 3.9 million illegal downloads.
And mario galaxy 2 is on the most pirate friendly console around.
Piracy on pc is 3 times as bad as console piracy.

or look at modern warfare 3.
Pc 3.6 million downloads.
Consoles 0.8 million downloads
That is 4.5 times as bad.

Your argument is now broken.

 

[Treblaine]

You are quite the persistent little fellow aren't you. Don't misunderstand what I am saying either, I have never in my existence ever dismissed PC exclusives or the PC as a gaming platform. While not a member of the PC gaming community, I know that it is the cornerstone of the gaming universe and without it, the world would be far bleaker for it. But 1 point I have to make above all else, is that I have played multiplayer only games and games which focus mostly on the multiplayer and they do not entertain me. It is fun at first but that wears off rapidly and to be honest, there are very few PC games I'm interested in because it is not something I regularly use nor ever have.

Games I am interested in are Mari0, Kingdom of Amalur, NeverDead(I don't know why, its premise intrigued me), Mass Effect 3(though the ever present bug lurking in the depths of my mind fears mediocrity), Asura's Wrath, The Last Of Us(looks interesting to a degree, hopefully isn't samey) and Bioshock Infinite. When it comes to the indie market, I find it easier to just browse through whatever is on steam and hope for the best.

In response to your Torchlight comment, I generally like to play prequels, ones made before, not other prequels that are actually sequels but set before the original story, so as to obtain a sense of the universe and the lore. Even though I know that resistance 2 was the worst entry into the Resistance family, I still played it prior to the 3rd, so that I had an understanding of events and characters that evolved around them. You might suggest that I simply obtain my information elsewhere, but like reading the plot of a movie, not having played the game makes me feel like I'm missing out on the whole experience. However on the rare occasion I do pick up a sequel by accident, but if I am invested enough in it I will play its predecessors.

In response to your supposed obligation to provide you with information on my tastes, there is no reason for me to ever give you a response to anything. I am not obligated to inform you on anything, games included and your persistence is perplexing to say the least. Just because I wasn't fond of what you showed me doesn't mean I lack taste, nor does it mean that I dismissed the medium entirely, it just means that I wasn't interested in the options that you put forward. Is it that shocking to you that my opinion wavers on such trivial things?

Also it is a valid reason not to be interested in some of the games that are coming out on PC in 2012. From what I saw neither your list or the one before was a comprehensive analysis on the year that is 2012, so claiming I'm avoiding it it silly, I'm just not interested in all of them. I'll try a more eloquent summary of what I thought of the initial list, Some of the games put forward look interesting, but I'm not sitting here counting the hours until they're released nor am I going to have a heart attack when they are. Never once did I say I was uninterested I was only defending my position that I wasn't particularly enthralled by the ones you seem to advocate so hard for. To list the ones that look interesting, Cobalt, Torchlight 2 and Neverwinter. I hope you are content now that you know which games I'm looking forward to and which games at least appear interesting. No I am not interested in that Hawken game, I have never like fighting in Machines before and it would have to transcend the moon and stars themselves for me to care.

On a final note, I will congratulate your tenacity. While I saw little purpose in some of it, your continual badgering showed that you at least care for your artform a bit, which is more than can be said for others.

Thank you for giving such a thoughtful response but I hope you realise what spurred me to reply to you, it was how your response to an extensive (if not comprehensive) list of PC games was SIMPLY not crazy about, it came across as a brutal putdown that PC had nothing to offer. An all to common fallacy (that seems to almost be used as a self-fulfilling prophecy) that I have heard so often, people act dumbfounded at the suggestion of considering PC gaming as they act as if they aren't missing out on a single thing.

I have seen people (not necessarily you) who clearly have a great interest in a certain game but will blatantly deny their barely concealed interest because they are invested in another platform. I saw this with Killzone 2, and I see it again with Hawken. Hell, I used to be like that with Killzone 2, I wasn't committed to PS3 and it annoyed me how it disturbed my preconceived notion that I was missing out on nothing by skipping the PS3.

You could have said then (and could go back an edit now :-3 ) and what you later say, that you DO find many PC games interesting, just not with huge excitement and not that particular non-comprehensive list.

You could be a bit more open about Torchlight, how you are interested in the series but not till you've played Torchlight 1. And other things. It just seems like you're another person on the PC-game bashing bandwagon and I'd not want to be associated with them.

I hope you realise now how PC gamers are fed up of being ignored and dismissed because of platform bias rather than genuine shortcomings. PC gaming, unlike Microsoft for Xbox or Sony for Playstation and so on doesn't have big marketing programs, especially not in product placements that hugely changes perceptions and popularity.

 

[Treblaine]

Because those are the only games that are affected by piracy, right? They succeed in spite of piracy. Crytek said Crysis 1 was pirated at a rate of 15 to 1. 15 legit copies to every bought one. And lo and behold, the next game isn't PC-exclusive.

Console games, whether devs like it or not, gets pirated as often as PC titles do.

YOU are fucking lying.
The most pirated game on consoles was mario galaxy 2 with 1.2 million illegal donwloads.
the most pirated game on pc was crysis 2. With 3.9 million illegal downloads.
And mario galaxy 2 is on the most pirate friendly console around.
Piracy on pc is 3 times as bad as console piracy.

or look at modern warfare 3.
Pc 3.6 million downloads.
Consoles 0.8 million downloads
That is 4.5 times as bad.

Your argument is now broken.

You might want to moderate your language.

Also consider he may not have meant number of pirated incidences, but number of DIFFERENT GAMES get pirated on PC and Console are the same.

That adds to the point that if it wasn't for PC gaming, then piracy would just shift to consoles.

PS: console gaming piracy does not factor for hardware piracy. That is people pirating console games and selling the discs as this only counts pirated downloads. A pirate wouldn't download the game for each copy they burn. But there is virtually no hardware-piracy on PC, I've been to these markets that sell knock off 360 and wii games but no knock-off PC games. But, the hardware piracy may be insignificant, who knows, no one has checked so as far as the facts go you are right.

But your insulting language is out of order.

 

[Meight08]

Because those are the only games that are affected by piracy, right? They succeed in spite of piracy. Crytek said Crysis 1 was pirated at a rate of 15 to 1. 15 legit copies to every bought one. And lo and behold, the next game isn't PC-exclusive.

Console games, whether devs like it or not, gets pirated as often as PC titles do.

YOU are lying.
The most pirated game on consoles was mario galaxy 2 with 1.2 million illegal donwloads.
the most pirated game on pc was crysis 2. With 3.9 million illegal downloads.
And mario galaxy 2 is on the most pirate friendly console around.
Piracy on pc is 3 times as bad as console piracy.

or look at modern warfare 3.
Pc 3.6 million downloads.
Consoles 0.8 million downloads
That is 4.5 times as bad.

Your argument is now broken.

You might want to moderate your language.

Also consider he may not have meant number of pirated incidences, but number of DIFFERENT GAMES get pirated on PC and Console are the same.

That adds to the point that if it wasn't for PC gaming, then piracy would just shift to consoles.

PS: console gaming piracy does not factor for hardware piracy. That is people pirating console games and selling the discs as this only counts pirated downloads. A pirate wouldn't download the game for each copy they burn. But there is virtually no hardware-piracy on PC, I've been to these markets that sell knock off 360 and wii games but no knock-off PC games. But, the hardware piracy may be insignificant, who knows, no one has checked so as far as the facts go you are right.

But your insulting language is out of order.

Sorry last day of the weekend.

But anyway what is worse?
1 game downloaded 3.6 million times or.
3.6 million games downloaded 1 time.
He is saying that console piracy is just as bad but it isn't
And with a console you can stop them from playing entirely.
Ever heard of bricking?
cracks and keygen's and the likes don't work on consoles.
And if its a leaked version Microsoft or Sony can see you playing a game you aren't supposed to play.
And ban you ever heard of the halo 3 epsilon leak?

Banned till 31/12/9999

 

[Treblaine]

Because those are the only games that are affected by piracy, right? They succeed in spite of piracy. Crytek said Crysis 1 was pirated at a rate of 15 to 1. 15 legit copies to every bought one. And lo and behold, the next game isn't PC-exclusive.

Console games, whether devs like it or not, gets pirated as often as PC titles do.

YOU are lying.
The most pirated game on consoles was mario galaxy 2 with 1.2 million illegal donwloads.
the most pirated game on pc was crysis 2. With 3.9 million illegal downloads.
And mario galaxy 2 is on the most pirate friendly console around.
Piracy on pc is 3 times as bad as console piracy.

or look at modern warfare 3.
Pc 3.6 million downloads.
Consoles 0.8 million downloads
That is 4.5 times as bad.

Your argument is now broken.

You might want to moderate your language.

Also consider he may not have meant number of pirated incidences, but number of DIFFERENT GAMES get pirated on PC and Console are the same.

That adds to the point that if it wasn't for PC gaming, then piracy would just shift to consoles.

PS: console gaming piracy does not factor for hardware piracy. That is people pirating console games and selling the discs as this only counts pirated downloads. A pirate wouldn't download the game for each copy they burn. But there is virtually no hardware-piracy on PC, I've been to these markets that sell knock off 360 and wii games but no knock-off PC games. But, the hardware piracy may be insignificant, who knows, no one has checked so as far as the facts go you are right.

But your insulting language is out of order.

Sorry last day of the weekend.

But anyway what is worse?
1 game downloaded 3.6 million times or.
3.6 million games downloaded 1 time.
He is saying that console piracy is just as bad but it isn't
And with a console you can stop them from playing entirely.
Ever heard of bricking?
cracks and keygen's and the likes don't work on consoles.
And if its a leaked version Microsoft or Sony can see you playing a game you aren't supposed to play.
And ban you ever heard of the halo 3 epsilon leak?

Banned till 31/12/9999

Good point, he is wrong, but this isn't youtube comment section, this is supposed to be one of the more classy of internet forums.

And you are right, piracy relative to sales is higher on PC than with consoles... as it is currently measured.

PC sales are notoriously hard to track tending to be underestimated and I argued that console piracy is arguably harder to track, but that still can't make up for difference. However the very existence of console piracy being relatively prevalent shows console development is no magic bullet, pirates are just taking the path of least resistance through PC.

Consider Sony's PSP, a CONSOLE that was crippled by piracy, almost its entire library had no analogue on PC so the pirates went direct and the system got hugely marginalised. It's got an attachment-rate of only 3.7 (average less than 4 PSP games sold per PSP) over 7 years, that is really bad when PSP was really good system with so many great games. And it wasn't all that easy to crack but I was given weird looks that I HADN'T jailbroken my PSP.

You could argue that piracy on console locks out online, but the same is true on PC. Pirated PC games need pirate servers and there aren't many of them. It's the same with console piracy, you can pirate console multiplayer. Xbox live bans are like Steam bans, you just go through another port. All the tricks to convince people to stay in good standing with online multiplayer networks by not pirating apply equally to console and PC.

You have to consider the music industry. Even before the digital revolution there were still bootleg music records. Musicians can't hope to combat music piracy by never releasing their song on CD or iTunes, pirates will get it one way or another.

 

[Aprilgold]

Because those are the only games that are affected by piracy, right? They succeed in spite of piracy. Crytek said Crysis 1 was pirated at a rate of 15 to 1. 15 legit copies to every bought one. And lo and behold, the next game isn't PC-exclusive.

Console games, whether devs like it or not, gets pirated as often as PC titles do.

YOU are lying.
The most pirated game on consoles was mario galaxy 2 with 1.2 million illegal donwloads.
the most pirated game on pc was crysis 2. With 3.9 million illegal downloads.
And mario galaxy 2 is on the most pirate friendly console around.
Piracy on pc is 3 times as bad as console piracy.

or look at modern warfare 3.
Pc 3.6 million downloads.
Consoles 0.8 million downloads
That is 4.5 times as bad.

Your argument is now broken.

My point is that they are still pirated, not how much. My argument is still entact on the logic that a pirated copy for a console can still be infinitely reproduced, just like a PC copy can. I'd also like to point out that unless your numbers are straight from the pirate's mouth, then it can be only guesses.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Because those are the only games that are affected by piracy, right? They succeed in spite of piracy. Crytek said Crysis 1 was pirated at a rate of 15 to 1. 15 legit copies to every bought one. And lo and behold, the next game isn't PC-exclusive.

Console games, whether devs like it or not, gets pirated as often as PC titles do.

YOU are lying.
The most pirated game on consoles was mario galaxy 2 with 1.2 million illegal donwloads.
the most pirated game on pc was crysis 2. With 3.9 million illegal downloads.
And mario galaxy 2 is on the most pirate friendly console around.
Piracy on pc is 3 times as bad as console piracy.

or look at modern warfare 3.
Pc 3.6 million downloads.
Consoles 0.8 million downloads
That is 4.5 times as bad.

Your argument is now broken.

Do know how people pirate on consoles? They don't go and download the games themselves they buy them. There are massive black markets on streets of developing countries that sell many, many pirated games and even in places like Spain(in certain areas) there were shops that only sold pirated games. There are electronic shops that sell the service of adding in mod chips and then sell the pirated games to them.

That is how piracy happens on consoles and is why you can't just go with downloads. Same as PC retail sales are a far cry from true sales.

Then there was also that news article on this site sourced from another that stated over 1 mil xbox 360s were banned for piracy. That is only the pirates only which is considered to be by far the smaller number.

Just recently there was a program on TV about piracy of all forms. When they did video game piracy, they got a person to go undercover and buy some pirated games. They were selling pirated console games from anywhere between ?5 and ?10 but he bought a storage device(they didn't specify) with over 80 DS games for ?50.

Now if that isn't rampant I don't know what is.

 

[M-E-D The Poet]

Angry PC gamer here to say that a pirated game is not the equivalent of a lost sale.

Yeah, it's a product being used that wasn't paid for.

True but there is a good chance it wouldn't have been purchased in the first place.

How is that a defense? Piracy is Nihilism short and simple. I'm not judging you (I know you won't believe me when I say that) but pirate morality is a joke.

so if I am poor and couldn't buy the game anyway

And I pirate the game, and play it, and enjoy it, and am possibly motivated to save up for the sequel because its such a good IP

My Morality is f**ed up

You do know.... that most pirates... actually buy the games they really really want right?


or another fucked up pirate mentality :
Fixing broken games

Pirates are so "Terrible" they dig into a games source from time to time to fix things that the publishers take months to fix

Terrible people yeah, I see

 

[LilithSlave]

Bah, that's just making excuses.

Console games get pirated by the boatload. They even made a Nintendo DS chip illegal in parts of Europe, I heard. What about all those thousands of rom sites and mod chips?

I don't buy that PC games aren't bought and console games are. Which is the real issue. They're saying "nobody will buy our games because everyone will pirate them". BS, Minecraft alone has sold over 4 million copies(nearly 5 million, at this point). That's more success than most console games can lay claim to.

That means that Minecraft has sold nearly as much as the original Metal Gear Solid. One of the best selling console games of all time. And Minecraft is an indie PC exclusive.

So even if the PC were pirated loads more than the console in terms of software. They still sell just as much. But hey, as long as you care more about being pirated than making more money, go ahead and stay away from the PC platform and lose money by doing it.

what i mean by this is that the majority of people who pirate games never buy them afterwards.

Not true. Studies show that piracy actually increases sales.

People in futility can attempt to justify permission culture and laws all they way. But piracy means more sales, not less.

 

[DayDark]

so if I am poor and couldn't buy the game anyway

If that was the case, than cheap games wouldn't be pirated just as much, and high end games wouldn't be pirated either, because if you can't afford the game, than obviously can't afford the hardware required to run those games.

And I pirate the game, and play it, and enjoy it, and am possibly motivated to save up for the sequel because its such a good IP

That doesn't make sense, why not pirate the sequel as well, and possible save for the third installment. Also the game might not get a sequel, because the first one was pirated.

My Morality is f**ed up

You do know.... that most pirates... actually buy the games they really really want right?

what evidence is there of this, and how does that change anything?

or another fucked up pirate mentality :
Fixing broken games

Pirates are so "Terrible" they dig into a games source from time to time to fix things that the publishers take months to fix

Terrible people yeah, I see

What? from time to time, FROM TIME TO TIME?!

Developer: "DUDE, Y U Pirate my Game!?"

Pirate: "It's cool bro, maybe I'll fix it, like, I roll this dice, and if you get a 6, than I'll consider, maybe, when I got the time, to fix something, or whatever, I do that from time to time".

 

[LilithSlave]

Console exclusive from 2005

PC exclusive from same year

I thought you said you were going to "play that game too"?

Plenty of people hate Battlefield games of all varieties. And Samurai Western certainly has a fanbase.

Heck, I would much rather play Samurai Western than Battlefield. I wouldn't want to play Battlefield unless you paid me handsomely.

And I certainly wouldn't compare it to a boob physics game.

than obviously can't afford the hardware required to run those games.

That's ridiculous. As I'm used to hearing, it completely ignores how there are different priorities in buying. For instance, paying bills and buying food and education are more important than buying games.

Having a PC in this day and age is as necessary as having a phone. Being able to afford a PC means being able to afford an important tool for applying for jobs, buying things(food, in fact, is possible to buy online, and often cheaper than driving yourself), education, and the many other important uses a computer has. Being able to afford a PC does not mean being able to afford luxuries like games.

There are different priorities. And there are priorities outside of "necessary to be alive". Games are one of the least priorities, so they will be delayed a lot more than a working PC or phone. And as people delay buying such a luxury they can't afford, because they have other, more important payments, they often pirate it in the meantime.

Also, a large portion of pirates are children, who don't have permission to spend their money on things like games.

And what the heck is a "high end game", pretty much every game today can be played on a computer that costs around $200.

 

[Treblaine]

Angry PC gamer here to say that a pirated game is not the equivalent of a lost sale.

Yeah, it's a product being used that wasn't paid for.

True but there is a good chance it wouldn't have been purchased in the first place.

How is that a defense? Piracy is Nihilism short and simple. I'm not judging you (I know you won't believe me when I say that) but pirate morality is a joke.

so if I am poor and couldn't buy the game anyway

And I pirate the game, and play it, and enjoy it, and am possibly motivated to save up for the sequel because its such a good IP

My Morality is f**ed up

You do know.... that most pirates... actually buy the games they really really want right?


or another fucked up pirate mentality :
Fixing broken games

Pirates are so "Terrible" they dig into a games source from time to time to fix things that the publishers take months to fix

Terrible people yeah, I see

The problem is the rate of piracy compared to other platforms it is quite clear most pirates don't do if because they can't afford any games. Games are not that expensive, especially with steam sales. Especially how one game can come with so many hours of enjoyment and so many legitimately free mods. The cost thing doesn't stack up, PC hardware isn't cheap, how can they afford the hardware but not the software?

Also, piracy and fixing game-code are really quite separate. You don't have to download a game without paying to fix broken aspects nor do you have to spread those fixes by further piracy. Mods. Custom patches and configs.

If most pirates did buy games they pirated then number of illegitimate downloads would be barely higher than number of legitimate sales when that is NOT the case. And why would so many download games they don't "really want". I think most pirates do really want these games and don't want to pay, it's that simple. I think it's not very relevant bringing morality into this, the practicality is the developers need to make some money at some point if only for their beer and pizza fund.

 

[ph0b0s123]

Console exclusive from 2005

PC exclusive from same year

I thought you said you were going to "play that game too"?

Plenty of people hate Battlefield games of all varieties. And Samurai Western certainly has a fanbase.

Heck, I would much rather play Samurai Western than Battlefield. I wouldn't want to play Battlefield unless you paid me handsomely.

And I certainly wouldn't compare it to a boob physics game.

-snip-

Got it not everyone likes Battlefield games. More like it than don't though which means new ones keep getting made. Sure I could find people who don't get the big deal about Shadow of the Colossus (but they would be crazy). I am sure the boob physics game has a fan base else the would not have put a whole series out (unfortunately). Was there a Samurai Western series of games?

So yes I am sorry my pick was not one you liked, feel free to pick another yourself.

 

[LiquidSolstice]

snip

Alright fine, I did straw-man because of the trolly and aggressive way you addressed me. If we are going to have a legitimate discussion about this allow me to proceed.

lets go back to one of your earlier arguments then. Blizzard is too big to feel the effects of piracy.

How did they get that way?

Do you think back in the day when games could easily be copy pasted to floppies or CD's that they didn't suffer piracy?

Do you think blizzard didn't have starcraft/warcraft pirated?

If all this piracy was going on, to the extent that DRM is necessary is such a vital component to the survival of gaming, how did blizzard manage to survive?

Why would people buy this game, to the extent that it sold 11 million copies worldwide as of Feb 09, is piracy was the easier option?
(source: http://www.edge-online.com/news/blizzard-confirms-one-frontline-release-09)

Let go with minecraft as well, it sold a million copies while it was still in beta (ie free to play)
and now he has something like 20 million players world wide that play this game and a paying user base that is nearly 5 million strong.
(source: http://www.webcitation.org/mainframe.php)

How could he as a developer sustain such loses of potential sales and not just be completely ruined?
(source: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/115452-Notch-Mojang-No-Longer-Indie)

Wouldn't you argue that you, as a developer, shouldn't be concerned when people want the product you offer. You should be worried when no one wants your product at all.

Such as in the case of Too Human? which only sold 700,000 units in its life time, and made no claims excuses of "piracy" killing it's sales. (in fact you can't find any statistics or articles in relation to anyone pirating too human via my google searches)

But a game like Modern Warfare 3 within 24 hours of going on sale, the game sold 6.5 million copies in the US and UK alone and grossed $400 million, making it the biggest entertainment launch of all time. (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_warfare_3)

And yet was able to achieve those numbers (those being just the 24 sales figures no life time figures have yet been posted) despite being the number 2 most pirated game of 2011.

(source: http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2011/12/31/the-ten-most-pirated-games-of-2011/)

It seems to me that games that have the most successful sales records are also the most pirated ones. Meaning that if piracy was killing them, they should not be successful or profitable. But yet they are able to profit and grow.

I'm highly confused about a couple things you've stated.

1. Why are you consistently using the most popular and best-selling games as a measure of how little piracy "hurts" the game industry?

2. What is the connection between "success" and "pirate" ranking?

3. Why do you think 3 or 4 examples of best-selling games is applicable to the entire gaming industry?

Obviously the most well-known games will be pirated, I don't get what point you're trying to make. I just don't get this consistent assumption that the amount of money a company makes should have jack shit to do with whether or not they should make an effort to curb piracy of their product.