A bit ironic yourself there , best avoid conflicting otherwise you could both wind up in trouble. I am still surprised this thread hasn't been closed and has been left to run, with the OP admitting pirating and such, and not to mention the small amount of posters in this thread so far.
Why? How? I'd really like to understand what makes you think this. It's fascinating.
The bus is empty. Nobody is helped by me getting off. It helps me to stay on.
Walking Might make you a little more humble and make you realise that Its not the game developers job to give entertainment for charity.
Would you walk into a pub, and drink a glass of champagne that was reserved for a stranger's party?
Anyway walking's good for you.
RubyT said:
You apparently try to justify it to yourself. But go on and just be happy with tricking yourself.
The arguement of piracy is actually quite pointless. No matter how any of you feel about it, it will never go away. Because in order for it to go away you have to change two things. Human nature and the nature of Computers. If you want to try and stop the ocean with your hands you can be my guest. But don't expect me not to laugh.
It was the implication that copying the data was akin to stealing which I was objecting to. It's copyright infringement. I think it's a grey area, I don't think you can outright say that it's 100% wrong or right. I know plenty of people who pirate games, but who also spend a fortune on games, many of which they would not buy if it was not possible to pirate. Someone posted a video from an author who said that when he posted one of his books online for free he saw a 300% rise in sales the next month and he attributed this to people sharing books with each other and that's how many people get introduced to new authors who then become fans and buy their work. I don't see that as a bad thing at all.
There's one crucial diference I see in your example, and it's where I think the debate loses a lot of steam.
The author put his book up voluntarily free for people to read, accepting that there could have been a significant loss instead of gain. He got lucky and a whole load of people who were essentially good at heart read the book free and either bought it or recommended to their friends that they should buy it. I would also like to know if the book is still available for free download, or whether he took it down once it had served its purpose.
A pirate is taking a copy illegally (argue over the moral right all you want, most societies define the activity as illegal) that the developer/publisher did not offer to them for free in an advertising gambit. I also think, and forgive me for what is about to be a gross generalisation, that the history does not support the viewpoint that people will follow the example of this author's book.
Take the Humble Indie Bundle. Available for any price, as long as some money was paid for it. And it was still pirated by millions of gamers. And here's where the generalisation comes in, I believe this is because gamers are becoming more and more entitled. Unlike the rest of the public, who may watch the occasional episode of QI on YouTube at work, pirating games is more and more becoming a way of life for gamers who don't want to pay retail. If this wasn't the case, piracy statistics would be going down or at the least growing as the consumer base grows. Instead there is an exponential rise year on year, suggesting that more gamers are pirating more often.
Obviously this is also becoming more common among the film industry as well, but the gaming industry is where you see it hit the hardest. Also clearly there are the occasional 'good' pirates who pirated because they didn't have the money and then when they did immediately went out and bought the game, or pirated because they were treating it like a demo and bought the real game when they found that they liked it but they are in a minority.
I do think there are shades of grey, but I don't think the issue is as grey as most pirates would like to believe. Watching streamed videos of a television show you wholly support, but it isn't syndicated in your country and the DVDs are not available is one thing, assuming that when the DVDs become available you buy them and stop pirating immediately. Buying a game you have or will have the means to get in a few months just because you feel you are somehow 'allowed/entitled/whatever' to own it? That's something entirely different.
If push came to shove I would class only a few situation where piracy is even close to acceptable:
1. An old game, TV Shows or Movie no longer available on any format save for downloaded copy. Something like the Star Wars Holiday Special.
2. The above mentioned show not available in your country but will be available and you buy it the second it is available
3. Possibly, and this is a big possibly that I'm not sure of my own views on, you previously owned a copy of the game/movie/show, but the copy you own was damaged or lost or otherwise made unavailable to you, so you pirate instead of spending money on a replacement. Personally I buy a replacement and accept the cost as a hazard of materials which break, but I can see an argument here for having spent the money on the intellectual property beforehand.
Those three scenarios are pretty much the only time I would consider piracy to be close to morally acceptable.
So, according to you, a pirate that buys more games than someone who doesn't pirate ever, but still pirates a game every month or so is a lazy freeloaders?
There is no way to see this as a black or white topic, it can only be seen as a case by case topic.
Considering how narrow minded people on this forum can be, your comment not being sarcasm what a distinct possibility. Add to that sacarsm not passing well trough written form, and there you have it, my mistake.
Basically it boils down to you thinking youre better than me. Or other people. That in some way artist just OWE you work and you are entitled to enjoy it. And entitled to do so for free. While i have to pay to fund the artist that produces the work you enjoy. You are a leech. You take from a system and give nothing, and you depend on others to fund that system so you can continue to sink your entitled hooks into it and enjoy it from the payment of others. Basically you think you deserve artists work for free and other people to pay for it so they have an incentive to keep working to produce more things for you to leech. Its pretty basic.
Sure its not stealing, is it spitting in the artists face and telling everyone else you think they need to work for nice things while you dont? Yes.
The next CD needs to be funded by someone and it sure as hell ISNT you. But youll enjoy it anyway because youre just better than regular people. You deserve it. Just like the parasitic larvae in the caterpiller enjoy its nutrients without helping to gather them.
The best is "i wasnt going to buy it anyway". So because I like something and YOU dont you deserve it for free. Uhuh. Imagine walking into a burger joint. Someone says, I HATE THESE BURGERS. And they give him a burger for free. Since he wasnt going to buy one anyway, he hates them and the burgers cost pittence to make they might as well give it away. Youre hungry and you want a burger and when you ask "I want one for free?" The manager glares at you and says "but you actually WANT it, that means you gotta pay, people who dont want things deserve them more than you". Everything in that scene is wrong. And so are you.
Piracy simply put: you enjoy a product, you're just not willing to pay for it. You spend time justifying it to yourself and others while it's clear that you don't really care about the developer and how the developer gets screwed over by the copyright holder. You don't care about anything but the fact that you can get free entertainment. You make flawed analogies to protect yourself while claiming you don't care. Pirating is OK, acting like a hero because you know how to use torrents only make you seem like an ass.
But I guess these are just the wrong forums for this discussion.
There's a poll about a dude with a crowbar being shot 10 times, 4 shots while he was already down, and 60% of the people said "totally justified".
Ok, you just ruined your whole argument as far as I'm concerned. I couldn't find many logical flaws in your OP, but if you think that thug didn't deserve to be shot, then you are just completely misinformed about how the world works.
While i have to pay to fund the artist that produces the work you enjoy. You are a leech. You take from a system and give nothing, and you depend on others to fund that system
I don't hoard money and I don't just burn it. I spend all of it. How am I a leech? Maybe I'm funding some things that benefit you too. Should we all water the same plant?
Long time lurker here. Just registered to say this:
I'll stop downloading games when publishers will remember that demos are a great promotional tool. No, I'm not going to buy a car without giving it a test run first. Same with a game. Demos allow me to make my own idea of the gameplay - It also allows me to guesstimate how long it'll take me to finish the game, and judge how much I'm willing to spend on the product. - I'm not going to spend 60 euros on a 4h long game.
If there's no demo, i'm going to pirate your game. If it's good, i'll buy it. This is non negotiable. Before you tell me about reviews, I'll just point you towards metacritic and laugh.
Obviously, if the game is shitty, i'm not going to keep playing.
I buy games. I've bought quite a lot of games, actually, and will probably buy even more games in the future. I have 200+ games in my Steam library. I also own quite a lot of DVD boxes and even some direct download stuff. I have a current backlog of 20+ games I need to play, because of the goddamn steam winter sales and the HIB/RIB. I just don't feel like being shafted by shoddy publishers who couldn't care less about my experience but oh god do they want my money so much.
I wouldn't blame the cop for shooting him once. I think the situation could and should have been resolved better. The guy just threatens the other cop, who himself retreats. He did to me not look to be in immediate danger. But the situation could have appeard different live. So I wouldn't blame the cop for one shot.
But he shot him 5 times in 1 second, paused for a beat, the thug turned around, then got shot another 5 times in the back, the last 1 or 2 shots hit him on the ground.
Yeah, I think policemen should be trained to handle a situation like this better than to basically execute a thug, even if that causes risks to themselves.
I usually side with cops, because my brother-in-law is one. There's a lot of "Taser"-vids on youtube and while often it seems quite an overreaction, my sentiment is usually "If the cops engage you - cooperate!"
The first quick notion that popped into my mind when the thug made his move was "Stupid!", but when that cop didn't stop shooting, I couldn't believe it.
*If you acquire something, that's not yours, has real monetary value but money was not exchanged in its acquisition, what is it you have done?
*What makes you an exception to the rules that govern us all?
*Why do you think people have a problem with your outlook?
Answers:
1. You're a crook.
2. Cause you're a selfish little man with shit for dignity.
3. Cause you make life harder for honest people.
*If I you were to design and copyright something with plans to market it, and I took am identical copy of it and instead distributed it for free, taking both credit and potential earnings away from you, how would you feel?
Answer:
Like you were cheated.
*What is the chance that you fail hard at empathy?
Answer: 100%
People like you deserve nothing. You take what you want and scoff at honest folk, peering down at them through some twisted concept of fairness. YOUR WORSE THEN THIEVES for at least they have the decency to exert themselves in acquiring an item. You hide behind a screen, making glib remarks about a system you know fucking nothing about, claiming it's a victimless crime while year after year the constraints and conditions get harder and harder on people who try to live within the system.
Truly you are by no means the only culprit in this, the developers greed and incapacity to adapt is just as bad, but at least they expend resources and energy trying to thwart you lazy ass sods. You just sit there stewing in your own stink and selfishness watching a ticker pass or loading bar fill, while something you should not have get's handed to you buy another crook. Look at everything you have ever pirated and realise this: You take yourself closer to the level of that shit I scraped off my boot each time you clicked on a torrent or streamed a copyrighted video.
I spit on you.
EDIT: What's more, your possibly the worst kind of pirate. A dishonest one who tries to absolve himself of a crime while simultaneously trying to perch himself on a higher pedestal then the scum who stab people for drug money (heck, at least they're desperate, what's your excuse?). An honest pirate doesn't just admit he pirates, rather he just accepts what he's doing and says to hell with it.
Not only do you try to defend yourself, your not even a proper fucking pirate... again you are reaping the benefits of someone elses effort. Did you rip and comrpess that movie, then upload on site you deemed safe? Did you crack that game and use your own computer to share the file across the web? I doubt it.
I don't condone anything a pirate does, but I know how rank the types who do and you are a bottom feeder at best.
While i have to pay to fund the artist that produces the work you enjoy. You are a leech. You take from a system and give nothing, and you depend on others to fund that system
I don't hoard money and I don't just burn it. I spend all of it. How am I a leech? Maybe I'm funding some things that benefit you too. Should we all water the same plant?
Erm as it is you are a leech cus i have to water my plants AND yours while you enjoy both for nothing.
Name one thing i enjoy that i dont pay for. I pay for all public services with taxes, and everything else i buy. Because im not a leech. I say we all water the plants we enjoy, because thats the price of enjoying them. In this system you are a leech. What are you putting into the system of the entertainment industry? Nothing. ANd yet you take and expect work for free. Thus leech. I pay and earn EVERYTHING i enjoy. You cant say that. If you havnt paid or earned what you enjoy then you are leeching or stealing.
Because gaming, film, music, animation etc are things I'm passionate towards and I'm well on my way to becoming one of those people who see there hard wroth work demeaned by self-interested twits.
Treat piracy as a rental service that's a lot more reliable than Netflix because you don't have to wait days for the mail in, or streaming something on a net that could easily fail and waste you 10 bucks.
End argument forever.
EDIT: For all you smartfolk.
I don't believe in paying a publisher money, if I don't want the game. I play games I hate to remind myself how awesome the good ones are.
I don't 'want' to pay 60 bucks for a game I'm probably going to return and get half that amount back for returning. If we really want to talk about things that are unethical and theft, we should point at the publishers for removing product material for DLC, and upcharging prices with only throwing us minor details about the game with a 'buy it if you want to know more' clause.
If I pirate a game, and I enjoy that game, I'm probably going to shell out the money to get said game. If I don't, I'll delete it entirely from my hard drive. Call it a pseudo-demo instead of just thievery.
At the end of the day I will never buy a game if I don't enjoy it. I'm not going to support the stupid ideal that 'buy it anyways' makes sense. Publishers need to know when they screwed up, and showering them with cash with no return investment is the complete opposite in message.
Because gaming, film, music, animation etc are things I'm passionate towards and I'm well on my way to becoming one of those people who see there hard wroth work demeaned by self-interested twits.
Well I hope you get used to it soon, because copyright infringement isn't going anywhere. Ever. I also hope you see that it's not always a bad thing either.
You're not some artist who got screwed over by some producer, or a director who lost the rights to his own film. You're not fighting a battle on creative control.
If you pirate all you do is serve yourself through the effort of others.
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, best avoid conflicting otherwise you could both wind up in trouble. I am still surprised this thread hasn't been closed and has been left to run, with the OP admitting pirating and such, and not to mention the small amount of posters in this thread so far.
