Piracy

[The Madman]

World of Goo, a beautifully done little indie puzzle game that cost only $20 at launch had an initial piracy rate of 82%. Think about that. 82% of the people actively playing the game shortly after it launched had pirated it. This isn't some big name blockbuster game with a massive 'evil' corporation backing it either, it was a little indie game made by a tiny studio and distributed independently. LINKY

So every time I see people who pirate games rationalizing the act through some roundabout 'it costs too much' or 'I don't wanna support ____' and so on argument, I just look back at what happened with World of Goo and so many other games and shake my head, knowing full and well that it simply isn't true for the avast majority of pirates.

No, I don't support piracy for any reason because ultimately its a game I'd be stealing, something that if I'm really so poor I can't afford to buy it, I can also afford to live without because in the end its only a hobby and to pirate those games would just be to cheapen games as a whole and to disrespect the people who spent so much time and effort crafting them.

 

[Siuss]

'That's US $90 spent on one game. That is more than some people spend on housing in a month.'

You do realize that you are really off on that statement, right?

Do you know what the words housing, month, and spending mean?

Do you know what the words read, the entire, and thread mean? I explained what I said, and if you really tried hard you could find a studio apt for that price. Get the governments help with it and it is really not that hard. I know people that do it, stop telling me I'm wrong. Now if you wanna troll take it somewhere else, or at the very least say something on topic.

 

[Siuss]

World of Goo, a beautifully done little indie puzzle game that cost only $20 at launch had an initial piracy rate of 82%. Think about that. 82% of the people actively playing the game shortly after it launched had pirated it. This isn't some big name blockbuster game with a massive 'evil' corporation backing it either, it was a little indie game made by a tiny studio and distributed independently. LINKY

So every time I see people who pirate games rationalizing the act through some roundabout 'it costs too much' or 'I don't wanna support ____' and so on argument, I just look back at what happened with World of Goo and so many other games and shake my head, knowing full and well that it simply isn't true for the avast majority of pirates.

No, I don't support piracy for any reason because ultimately its a game I'd be stealing, something that if I'm really so poor I can't afford to buy it, I can also afford to live without because in the end its only a hobby and to pirate those games would just be to cheapen games as a whole and to disrespect the people who spent so much time and effort crafting them.

That is kind of what I was trying to get at, I just didn't want to come off as an attacker.

And you're preaching to the choir man, I'm one of the 18% who paid for World Of Goo. Granted I waited for the Wii launch, but still.

P.S. I did because I saw it, wanted it, but needed some use for the Wii. I don't hate it, it just seems like a game I want comes out on it once in a blue moon.

 

[Eponet]

Good choice in not doing piracy.
Piracy increases costs of games because fewer people buy them, which results in more piracy.
It's a vicious cycle.

Good choice in that he's not going to be sued. But as far as your point is concerned, he's no better for the industry than if he did pirate. He said he rents most of his games, that isn't helping the industry at all.

 

[Siuss]

Good choice in not doing piracy.
Piracy increases costs of games because fewer people buy them, which results in more piracy.
It's a vicious cycle.

Good choice in that he's not going to be sued. But as far as your point is concerned, he's no better for the industry than if he did pirate. He said he rents most of his games, that isn't helping the industry at all.

You're right it really doesn't, but I also said I rent most of my games. As in the games that I like or am interested in, but not enough so to buy them. I do purchase games, and by doing so only support publishers I can really get behind.

Also, is it such a crime to prefer to support my local video store? Not a blockbuster or Gamefly type business, but a store owned by people in my community, which hires people in my community, and returns to my community.

 

[Siuss]

'That's US $90 spent on one game. That is more than some people spend on housing in a month.'

You do realize that you are really off on that statement, right?

Do you know what the words housing, month, and spending mean?

Do you know what the words read, the entire, and thread mean? I explained what I said, and if you really tried hard you could find a studio apt for that price. Get the governments help with it and it is really not that hard. I know people that do it, stop telling me I'm wrong. Now if you wanna troll take it somewhere else, or at the very least say something on topic.

No, seriously, do you know what you are saying when you say '$90 a month is more than what some people pay for housing?'

$90 a month...... I think you are forgetting about another zero.

If you wanna call me a troll, good for you. Do you really think I am out of line for being surprised about your statement?

This is just another thread about people who think they deserve to get things for free.

Sucks for you that you can't earn enough to support your habits in a legit way.

I don't care about your feelings, but I am sorry if I upset you. Just ignore me.

Yeah, you can get a 3 bedroom apartment in my area for $475 a month. And you think a studio would run $900?

This thread is not about people who think they deserve anything for free! Seriously read the post! I said I could have gotten all the games I want for free, had all the fun in the world with them for as long as I wanted. But instead I pay for what I can afford. And you are ignorantly posting hate at me when you clearly didn't even pay attention to my first post. You are being a troll. And yeah, guess what it does suck that I can't afford to support my hobbies in a legit way, but I still love my hobbies and do what I can to enjoy them, but yeah college is tough and with my class schedule it's pretty tough to find any job. All I was doing was voicing my opinion, and you came by to shove what you think is fact (but actually isn't) down everyones throat.

And furthermore, good for you, don't care about my feelings. Hell don't care about my opinions. I really couldn't care less. But take it away from here.

 

[Siuss]

'That's US $90 spent on one game. That is more than some people spend on housing in a month.'

You do realize that you are really off on that statement, right?

Do you know what the words housing, month, and spending mean?

Do you know what the words read, the entire, and thread mean? I explained what I said, and if you really tried hard you could find a studio apt for that price. Get the governments help with it and it is really not that hard. I know people that do it, stop telling me I'm wrong. Now if you wanna troll take it somewhere else, or at the very least say something on topic.

No, seriously, do you know what you are saying when you say '$90 a month is more than what some people pay for housing?'

$90 a month...... I think you are forgetting about another zero.

If you wanna call me a troll, good for you. Do you really think I am out of line for being surprised about your statement?

This is just another thread about people who think they deserve to get things for free.

Sucks for you that you can't earn enough to support your habits in a legit way.

I don't care about your feelings, but I am sorry if I upset you. Just ignore me.

Yeah, you can get a 3 bedroom apartment in my area for $475 a month. And you think a studio would run $900?

This thread is not about people who think they deserve anything for free! Seriously read the post! I said I could have gotten all the games I want for free, had all the fun in the world with them for as long as I wanted. But instead I pay for what I can afford. And you are ignorantly posting hate at me when you clearly didn't even pay attention to my first post. You are being a troll. And yeah, guess what it does suck that I can't afford to support my hobbies in a legit way, but I still love my hobbies and do what I can to enjoy them, but yeah college is tough and with my class schedule it's pretty tough to find any job. All I was doing was voicing my opinion, and you came by to shove what you think is fact (but actually isn't) down everyones throat.

And furthermore, good for you, don't care about my feelings. Hell don't care about my opinions. I really couldn't care less. But take it away from here.

I feel like you are baiting me.

Thanks for admitting you were wrong to say you can pay $90 a month for housing. That was what really made your post sound off.

I have a few things to say to you.

1. I'm not baiting you.
2. I never said I was wrong about that, it is possible most people just don't try to take advantage of housing assistance.
3. You quite obviously do care about what I have to say, if not you would stop checking back to see what I said to you.

 

[Adzma]

Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as complaining. I know it's kind of hard to portray specific emotion like that in text, and I've never been great at it. I was just stating that I have felt it is a little extreme, but I am fine with it. I think I actually said that though.

Not to worry. It's text on the internet, misundertandings happen.

But I have heard about prices over in good ole Australia, is it true that on top of the price you typically get games much later too? Also, what is the reasoning behind the Australian game prices?

Oh, and one last question, is DLC more expensive for you too? Like if not if you purchase it directly are Microsoft points and such generally more expensive in stores as well?

It depends on the game in question but generally our games are delayed more so than other countries, though sometimes it is only by a few days, however in extreme cases it can be months. This is particularly bad with Nintendo which is why I stopped supporting them.

Aussie gamers have been asking for the reason behind our massive markups for years and have never been given a real answer. It generally stems from the dollar being to blame, which everyone knows is BS. As I said earlier our dollar is worth more than the USD but our games are still as expensive as ever. The other commonly cited scapegoat is that it's the publisher's fault.

Finally, yes our DLC is also more expensive than what you guys in the US pay, for both the Xbox and PS3.

 

[Anti Nudist Cupcake]

Buy a $400 pc.
Because the huge prices for console games are what makes up for the low price of an actual console.
Unless you have a pc like that and are complaining about pc games prices as well.

 

[Voodoomancer]

If we're gonna discuss game pricing, I might mention that over here in Iceland, in retail a new game can cost something like 10,000 ISK, which is something like $90-100. That's for the vanilla game, not with bonus content.

Yeah, guess why I use steam so much...

 

[Siuss]

W

Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as complaining. I know it's kind of hard to portray specific emotion like that in text, and I've never been great at it. I was just stating that I have felt it is a little extreme, but I am fine with it. I think I actually said that though.

Not to worry. It's text on the internet, misundertandings happen.

But I have heard about prices over in good ole Australia, is it true that on top of the price you typically get games much later too? Also, what is the reasoning behind the Australian game prices?

Oh, and one last question, is DLC more expensive for you too? Like if not if you purchase it directly are Microsoft points and such generally more expensive in stores as well?

It depends on the game in question but generally our games are delayed more so than other countries, though sometimes it is only by a few days, however in extreme cases it can be months. This is particularly bad with Nintendo which is why I stopped supporting them.

Aussie gamers have been asking for the reason behind our massive markups for years and have never been given a real answer. It generally stems from the dollar being to blame, which everyone knows is BS. As I said earlier our dollar is worth more than the USD but our games are still as expensive as ever. The other commonly cited scapegoat is that it's the publisher's fault.

Finally, yes our DLC is also more expensive than what you guys in the US pay, for both the Xbox and PS3.

Wow, that is terrible! Have you ever considered ordering games from an area in the world that can offer them cheaper? Or does shipping run you back up to price? Or I suppose Australias pretty hard on what comes in and out of the country?

And I know it might not seem like a whole lot, but even a few weeks seems kinda harsh, especially if it's a game you've been waiting on!

Could you give me an idea on the price markups on DLC? For reference the recent "Undead" Pack for Red Dead Redemption costs $10 over here in the states.

 

[Adzma]

Wow, that is terrible! Have you ever considered ordering games from an area in the world that can offer them cheaper? Or does shipping run you back up to price? Or I suppose Australias pretty hard on what comes in and out of the country?

And I know it might not seem like a whole lot, but even a few weeks seems kinda harsh, especially if it's a game you've been waiting on!

Could you give me an idea on the price markups on DLC? For reference the recent "Undead" Pack for Red Dead Redemption costs $10 over here in the states.

Oh yeah I import games all the time, more often than buying them instore. In fact this year I've only bought FFXIII and Transformers WFC from within an Australian store. Lots of Aussie gamers do it. We shouldn't have to though.

DLC isn't as bad as full games. The Undead pack for RDR is $15.95 AUD and the Undead Nightmare collection is $29.95 AUD.

EDIT: Whoo 800th post!

 

[Siuss]

'That's US $90 spent on one game. That is more than some people spend on housing in a month.'

/quote]

No, seriously, do you know what you are saying when you say '$90 a month is more than what some people pay for housing?'

I feel like you are baiting me.

I have a few things to say to you.

1. I'm not baiting you.
2. I never said I was wrong about that, it is possible most people just don't try to take advantage of housing assistance.
3. You quite obviously do care about what I have to say, if not you would stop checking back to see what I said to you.

I care about what you say a lot actually.

It saddens me when people feel that they have to rely on assistance for housing. It makes me even more sad when these people have to pay to play video games instead of paying bills like most people.

I'm glad you said you don't pirate. Is that really true?

Funny story, it's for people who need the help to live comfortably. Not only those who need it to live, you get helped out more or less depending on the money you personally make. Oh, and did you go to college? If you did I would bet you had housing assistance.

And yes I don't pirate, anything. The only things I have ever torrented were the wow discs back when I played, and that's because blizzard allows it. It's just the fastest way to get all the patches and expansions onto your computer. And you still had to pay full retail price to activate your account.

And just a little fyi for you, if I pirated why can I be caught playing the same game pretty much every night? And it's from three games ago in the series... I am an honest man, and I work for what I have. I'm a generally peace loving person, but you really are just bringing out the worst in me.

 

[Wintermoot]

I get where your coming from but renting is WORSE than piracy, google the game overthinker and watch his latest video

 

[Siuss]

Wow, that is terrible! Have you ever considered ordering games from an area in the world that can offer them cheaper? Or does shipping run you back up to price? Or I suppose Australias pretty hard on what comes in and out of the country?

And I know it might not seem like a whole lot, but even a few weeks seems kinda harsh, especially if it's a game you've been waiting on!

Could you give me an idea on the price markups on DLC? For reference the recent "Undead" Pack for Red Dead Redemption costs $10 over here in the states.

Oh yeah I import games all the time, more often than buying them instore. In fact this year I've only bought FFXIII and Transformers WFC from within an Australian store. Lots of Aussie gamers do it. We shouldn't have to though.

DLC isn't as bad as full games. The Undead pack for RDR is $15.95 AUD and the Undead Nightmare collection is $29.95 AUD.

EDIT: Whoo 800th post!

That doesn't seem too terrible on the DLC, but it is still like a 30% markup and I just find it stupid that they expect you to sit back and take that.

P.S. Congrats!

 

[Red Scharlach]

He said he rents most of his games, that isn't helping the industry at all.

Actually, renting games helps the industry too. The rental company continues to buy more of the much more expensive rental licenses when more people rent games. Ever wondered why the EULA in a common license tells you that you are not allowed to rent out the game?

 

[tzimize]

Good choice in not doing piracy.
Piracy increases costs of games because fewer people buy them, which results in more piracy.
It's a vicious cycle.

Not true. Lets say nobody pirated. Do you think companies would lower prices if they sold more games because they are just that nice? Please. They sell the games for as much money as they can get away with, usually more.

 

[Red Scharlach]

Not true. Lets say nobody pirated. Do you think companies would lower prices if they sold more games because they are just that nice? Please. They sell the games for as much money as they can get away with, usually more.

But at the same time, more money would flow into the industry which would mean more developers and more games. This in turn would mean more competition which would mean better quality and at the same time more niche games. Simply put: a bigger market.

 

[EeveeElectro]

...where can I find housing for less than 90 bucks a month?

Tell me now, because I need to move out.

...where can I find housing for less than 90 bucks a month?

YES! tell me... so I can afford to buy games again.

...where can I find housing for less than 90 bucks a month?

My question exactly? If such a place exists in this city, I would move without hesitation.

OT: Personally I'd rather see the money go to the industry. If the Dev's don't get their money, they won't be so eager to try and push the medium forward.

I'll continue buying my games the old fashioned way.

Mud huts are apparently very cheap...

OT: Where the hell can I live realistically for £90 a month?

My friend at University says she pays £90 or so a month, and that's split between 5 people I believe. They all get their own rooms and bathrooms, but have to share a kitchen.
When I get everything sorted out with my house, all three of us will be paying £103 each. Hooray for Hull and it's cheapest houses in England.

 

[Nahhnbah]

Fractional Games, the independant developer of Amnesia: the Dark Descent, were concerned at the wide availability of pirate copies of Amnesia. That's a game that costs $20, from a small indie developer aiming to sell 20 or 30,000 copies of their game to stay in business.

Piracy has absolutely nothing to do with the cost of games. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.

Pirating a small time developer game is pathetic, but what you say is wrong - it is partly to do with price AND availability.

Take for example, a game such as Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee. You can't find that game for rocking horse shit, so the simple solution is to download a pirate copy. The company aren't losing money, the game isn't sold in retailers any more. So, therefore, since the company isn't losing a penny, it's okay to download.

I have a cousin who gets paid £170 a week. Thats nothing. He spends nearly every penny he owns on bills, giving him about £5 a week for luxuries. I bought him a PC so he could play games online and not go insane. He downloads games illegally, then when he has enough money he goes out and buys them if the game was good. It's a fair balance and it means that developers don't miss out.

And people will always pirate, so live with it. There is literally nothing that can be done that will put a stop to it since a lot of people who pirate do so because they know software, programming etc. They'll find a way around it. So, I guess, developers can just make stunning games for cheap and fight piracy that way or give up and admit that not everyone wants to pay for games and live with it.

To be honest, renting doesn'y help the industry at all - the money just goes to Blockbuster or Gamestop or whoever. Buy the game, thats where the industry makes its payola.

It's a matter of convenience. Why scrounge up $60 or so and go through the hassle of tracking down a certain game and wait for it to go on sale when one could simply torrent it overnight while they're sleeping and play it in the morning?

This is also an extremely valid point.