"Pirating" a game that was never released in your country/language

[dobahci]

If you cannot purchase the item in question for your region, then I say go for it. They can't say it's a lost sale, since you couldn't have bought the item through legitimate channels anyway. (edit: actually I suppose that's technically not true since you could still buy online or whatever, but it'd be in the wrong language for you. make of that what you will.)

There are tons of tiny little fan projects that address the needs of a niche audience, something that's not mainstream enough to have massive profit potential for a big corporation. Projects that include fan translations, revivals of old movies/games/books that have long been out of print or been mired in copyright issues, and more. All of them run by fans volunteering their time to share the thing they're passionate about with other fans.

Because that's what the pirates are, at their core, which is something the industries just don't understand. Pirates aren't thieves or hoodlums or career criminals, they're not shady guys waiting in an alleyway for a chance to bop someone on the head with a lead pipe and make off with their wallet. They're just fans, who probably spent a good portion of their income on the hobby that they love, until one day they encountered something money couldn't get them. Maybe a game they purchased legitimately isn't working properly due to the DRM, or whatever. And then they discover that pirates have been doing this stuff for years, doing it for free, and most importantly, doing it well.

People don't turn to piracy just because it's free; they turn to it because it provides a better service than the legitimate channels (or a service which the legitimate channels are entirely missing). If the law says that that's wrong... well, then the law is mistaken. It sometimes is.

(Bet there's plenty of "GRR PIRACY IS STEALING" people rolling their eyeballs at this post, but hey, there are countless people who will be all too glad to sit you down and lecture to you about just how baaaaad piracy is, it's only fair that someone be allowed to deliver the opposing point.)

 

[him over there]

Import the game which you can not understand or run do to region locks or whatever then pirate it since it is no longer infringement because you own a physical copy. That would be the legal way to do it.

Honestly I don't care about or buy the whole "They denied it for your region so you aren't aloud to have it." If you are part of a place that can in no way legally obtain a copy is pirating it really a lost sale. It's essentially abandonware all over again.

 

[Fishyash]

Personally...

I think if you feel it's necessary, you should at least buy a japanese copy and then get the ROM, so you can still get it while supporting the developers.

But that would be you bending over backwards for a product that isn't intended for you to play. Honestly, I wouldn't even spend time on the game full stop (don't buy it, don't download the ROM). BUT since the game is still worth playing to you, you should at least buy it.

If the DS or DSi (in regards to physical copies) were region locked, then there would be no legal way for you to play the game full stop anyways.

 

[LiquidSolstice]

Well, leaving right and wrong out of it, it does prove a very effective counterexample the industry insistence that illegal downloads equate to lost sales.

Ugh. This was what I was really hoping you would not say, because it is utterly illogical to make a blanket statement that "illegal download is not lost sale". I think people are fixating too much on the word "sale", and pirates, people, and the game publishers also use the word wrongly.

It is a lost sale in the exact moment that the product is obtained without payment. There is no arguing with that.

What happens afterwards is ambiguous. It is unknown. The game industry does not know if you will buy AC2 because you pirated AC1. The game industry does not know if you would have purcahsed the game if it was available in your region. The game industry does not know that you would have purchased it if it did not have DRM. For the sake of fairness, the game industry also does not know if you have already purchased the game or not.

The only solid piece of information the game industry knows is that that moment of piracy in which you experience the content without paying for it, you have sidestepped the long-established rule of commerce in which payment is required to experience that content.

I think they don't understand how to word this, and I think a lot of DRM, both the actual code itself as well as it's reception and reasoning for creation get really, really poorly explained by people who mean one thing but say something else.

 

[StBishop]

Nintendo decided they don't want you to have the game

Sorry but this "They don't want you to have their game" thing is BS. They didn't decide that any individual or group of infdividuals should be excluded from having their game, they just decided where they're going to sell them.

..snipped defensiveness...

The context of this thread is in the frame of reference of a single individual that wants the game and is not being offered it. You claim that it's not a decision to deny him the game, then go on to list reasons why they may make the decision to deny him the game (yes, by denying it to his entire country/region, they're denying it to him).

No one but you said it was personal. They opted not to make it available where he could purchase it, and made it so the only way to obtain the game would be illegal. That decision means that he cannot have the game without breaking the law, which is what I said.

As for the rest of it, put the pom-poms away. You're off-topic.

Importing is possible.

Just sayin'.

OT: Whatever OP, do what you want, the opinion of the Internet doesn't matter. You're breaking the law, if that's ok with you then go for it, the moral implications are purely subjective as none of us are parties to the piracy, it's between you and the Publisher.

 

[LiquidSolstice]

Piracy is eeeeeeevil, man. That's why I'm sure nobody on this thread has watched a music video on youtube or sung "Happy Birthday To You" in a public location without paying royalties.

Yes, watching a music video on YouTube is of course the same thing as grabbing a ripped ROM of a game that you did not pay for and playing it.

Unless you want to tell me that Fair Use applies to video game ROMs?

PIRACY BE OK. LAWS/GOVERNMENTS/GREEDY CAPITALISTIC PIGS MAN. WE GOTTA TAKE EM DOWWWWWWWN.

 

[LiquidSolstice]

Worse yet the Escapist is like every other gaming community where people pressure people to play and buy certain games and not play and not buy certain others. Play this game, no excuses! But if you don't have the money to do so, "piracy is STEALING, you wouldn't download a CAR!", "No excuses! You don't get to play video games."
.

You know, a 5 year old from the 50s would be able to tell you that if you don't have enough money to buy something, you're not supposed to take it.

It's a shame grown adults from 2012 aren't able to process such a basic fact of commerce.

Do you have money? Yes?
Then buy it.

Do you not have money?
Then wait until you do.

Gaming is not a fucking necessity. It's not denying people "From the arts and freedom of expression" or whatever the fuck you're making it sound like. Video games are no different than anything else you buy in this world. If you don't have enough for it, you wait until you do.

As utterly inconvenient as that may be for today's generation of "I WANT AND I WANT NAO", that's the truth. Deal with it.

 

[lacktheknack]

Sup mate! And he IS offered it, here is the direct link to the game he wants.

"We're sorry, this product is not available outside of Japan."

 

[IWCAS]

I've never really thought about that. I'd like to play the Higurashi no Naku Koro ni games... even if they are incredibly shitty (which I don't know). Maybe some .Hack. I'm aware that those suck but I'd still like to give them a try.

They aren't released over here but I guess Piracy is Piracy. I'd probably download them anyways given the chance; it's unfair that they aren't available here, yet we could still get in trouble for trying to download them. I guess maybe I'm just a huge baby.

 

[IWCAS]

Why not import the game? You could do that with ebay, amazon, or anime/gaming conventions.

The only problem I have with that: If I import a Japanese game, that doesn't mean I can understand what they're saying. A lot of Pirated games come with fan patches to translate stuff, so that's more incentive to pirate the game instead.

 

[KiloFox]

*snip*

It's morally neutral and illegal to pirate these games.. however let's look at this more logically..

It's a fire emblem game! why would you NOT pirate it if you couldn't get it?!

well as i mentioned in the first post i AM planning on getting the ROM and patching with the translation anyway. it's a Fire Emblem game after all and i've played just about every one i could get my hands on (still need a Wii to play Radiant Dawn though. ONLY reason i'll buy that console) i've even downloaded ROMs of the 2 GBA games (i already owned the physical copies) just so i could play Fan-made hacks of the game with completely different storylines (still waiting on the Tactics Universe hack to get completed, and there was another one who's name i can't remember that was a 1-map game. involving a complete-cast showdown of Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword versus Fire Emblem Sacred Stones.)

but i was only posting to see what other people thought of it. especially given that i've seen a few of the Escapist video's here lately deal with piracy issues. but those issues only see to be centered around games that are released in your region, in your language, that you can buy. not a game such as this that isn't in your region or language.

 

[CrystalShadow]

Hmm. Interesting problem.

I confess the one question that I get with this issue personally is about the translation patches.

Importing games isn't easy, but it's doable.

However, if you can't understand the language, it's quite a bit less enjoyable.

And that's where the real problem seems to arise, because while getting the game through legal means is possible, translating it without doing several things which are not, frequently does not.

(Even if you could use the original game disk, and a real console somehow, you'd still have to mod the console to make such a hack possible.)


Here's another interesting question though:

How about games that have never been released at all? Anywhere?

Now, obviously, someone has to have leaked the code for it at some point, because otherwise how could you be playing it.

But what do you make of playing a game that was made, but never released anywhere in the world?

(The only example I can actually think of is Star Fox 2 - Roms of that are all over the internet. But it's of a late beta build, and the final game was never released...

Clearly someone at Nintendo wanted people to play it though, because how else would an unreleased game end up online?)

 

[Kahunaburger]

Piracy is eeeeeeevil, man. That's why I'm sure nobody on this thread has watched a music video on youtube or sung "Happy Birthday To You" in a public location without paying royalties.

Yes, watching a music video on YouTube is of course the same thing as grabbing a ripped ROM of a game that you did not pay for and playing it.

Unless you want to tell me that Fair Use applies to video game ROMs?

PIRACY BE OK. LAWS/GOVERNMENTS/GREEDY CAPITALISTIC PIGS MAN. WE GOTTA TAKE EM DOWWWWWWWN.

It's all equally illegal. Fair use probably does not cover your average youtube music video, which is why they get taken down all the time. The reason why restaurants don't sing "Happy Birthday To You" is that commercial use or public performance of that song without license is also technically copyright infringement.

 

[LiquidSolstice]

Piracy is eeeeeeevil, man. That's why I'm sure nobody on this thread has watched a music video on youtube or sung "Happy Birthday To You" in a public location without paying royalties.

Yes, watching a music video on YouTube is of course the same thing as grabbing a ripped ROM of a game that you did not pay for and playing it.

Unless you want to tell me that Fair Use applies to video game ROMs?

PIRACY BE OK. LAWS/GOVERNMENTS/GREEDY CAPITALISTIC PIGS MAN. WE GOTTA TAKE EM DOWWWWWWWN.

It's all equally illegal. Fair use probably does not cover your average youtube music video, which is why they get taken down all the time. The reason why restaurants don't sing "Happy Birthday To You" is that commercial use or public performance of that song without license is also technically copyright infringement.

Going five over the speed limit is also technically illegal.
Holding your phone to your ear in California is also technically illegal.

Are those the same as driving drunk, which is also technically illegal?

So, changing point of focus to something different, and attacking that instead. There's a name for that, I think. Something to do with straw....

 

[Kahunaburger]

Piracy is eeeeeeevil, man. That's why I'm sure nobody on this thread has watched a music video on youtube or sung "Happy Birthday To You" in a public location without paying royalties.

Yes, watching a music video on YouTube is of course the same thing as grabbing a ripped ROM of a game that you did not pay for and playing it.

Unless you want to tell me that Fair Use applies to video game ROMs?

PIRACY BE OK. LAWS/GOVERNMENTS/GREEDY CAPITALISTIC PIGS MAN. WE GOTTA TAKE EM DOWWWWWWWN.

It's all equally illegal. Fair use probably does not cover your average youtube music video, which is why they get taken down all the time. The reason why restaurants don't sing "Happy Birthday To You" is that commercial use or public performance of that song without license is also technically copyright infringement.

Going five over the speed limit is also technically illegal.
Holding your phone to your ear in California is also technically illegal.

Are those the same as driving drunk, which is also technically illegal?

So, changing point of focus to something different, and attacking that instead. There's a name for that, I think. Something to do with straw....

Changing focus? Please re-read my original post.

 

[LiquidSolstice]

Changing focus? Please re-read my original post.

I love when people say "please read what I said" when they don't actually read what they have said. Your original post? You mean, in a thread concerning the piracy of a video game ROM, in which the topic has nothing to do with the Birthday Song or Youtube music videos, where you said this?

Piracy is eeeeeeevil, man. That's why I'm sure nobody on this thread has watched a music video on youtube or sung "Happy Birthday To You" in a public location without paying royalties.

Yes? What am I supposed to be looking at? Oh, that's right. Nothing. Because you reduced the topic of the thread to a different stance and attacked that instead. Meet your new buddy!

 

[Kahunaburger]

Changing focus? Please re-read my original post.

I love when people say "please read what I said" when they don't actually read what they have said. Your original post? You mean, in a thread concerning the piracy of a video game ROM, in which the topic has nothing to do with the Birthday Song or Youtube music videos, where you said this?

Piracy is eeeeeeevil, man. That's why I'm sure nobody on this thread has watched a music video on youtube or sung "Happy Birthday To You" in a public location without paying royalties.

Yes? What am I supposed to be looking at? Oh, that's right. Nothing. Because you reduced the topic of the thread to a different stance and attacked that instead. Meet your new buddy!

Intellectual property is intellectual property. I'm surprised this is such a tricky concept for you.

 

[LiquidSolstice]

Intellectual property is intellectual property. I'm surprised this is such a tricky concept for you.

A strawman is a strawman. I'm surprised that even a picture wasn't enough to clarify this to you.

Maybe I need to explain, before you do the usual forum response of "omg troll". If we were arguing about piracy as a whole, I'd lend what you say to have credence. Otherwise, what you are doing is a picture perfect definition of attacking a strawman.

 

[cynicthnkr]

Just because someone is unwilling (or too lazy) to sell you something doesn't mean you got the right to steal it from him.

Do you have any personal thoughts of you own? Or do you only like to repeat the idiocy that goverments and corporations spoon feed you on a daily basis?

Piracy is not stealing. And the claim that it is, has got to be one of the most ridiculous and cheezy slogans ever put out by the corporate media. It's on par with those drug PSAs, and they think we're so stupid that we can be brainwashed by pathetic claims like this.

That some people actually believe, and even parrot this ridiculous claim they make, similar to how some people actually believe Glenn Beck, show how dangerous the corporate media is. And how desperately it needs to be deconstructed and destroyed.

Calm down! I wasn't saying piracy is stealing. I just meant that justifying piracy on the basis of reason that it wasn't released in my territory is similar to justifying stealing only if someone isn't selling something to me.

Simile or metaphor is the comparison of two completely different things not the same things.

On a second note I don't think any govt. or corporation would have said that piracy is same as stealing. Because if they completely replace piracy and copyright infringement with stealing laws most of corporation will become a victim of it too. And pirates job will become a lot easier with replacing copyright infringement fine with that of stealing.
As there would be no calculation of how many copies they would have sold.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Intellectual property is intellectual property. I'm surprised this is such a tricky concept for you.

A strawman is a strawman. I'm surprised that even a picture wasn't enough to clarify this to you.

Maybe I need to explain, before you do the usual forum response of "omg troll". If we were arguing about piracy as a whole, I'd lend what you say to have credence. Otherwise, what you are doing is a picture perfect definition of attacking a strawman.

No, I'm pointing out that basically everyone in this country violates intellectual property on a pretty regular basis, and implying that perhaps some people (particularly on this site, for some reason) respond to software piracy as if this were not the case.