"Pirating" a game that was never released in your country/language

[LiquidSolstice]

Intellectual property is intellectual property. I'm surprised this is such a tricky concept for you.

A strawman is a strawman. I'm surprised that even a picture wasn't enough to clarify this to you.

Maybe I need to explain, before you do the usual forum response of "omg troll". If we were arguing about piracy as a whole, I'd lend what you say to have credence. Otherwise, what you are doing is a picture perfect definition of attacking a strawman.

No, I'm pointing out that basically everyone in this country violates intellectual property on a pretty regular basis, and implying that perhaps some people (particularly on this site, for some reason) respond to software piracy as if this were not the case.

...I don't get why you don't think you're attacking a strawman. It doesn't matter what everyone in this country does (not that it makes it right), we're talking about whether or not in this instance, concerning a regionally distributed (or undistributed, as it were) game, it's justified/legal.

As clever as you might have thought you were being, that logic isn't required in this thread.

 

[Vegosiux]

Piracy is eeeeeeevil, man. That's why I'm sure nobody on this thread has watched a music video on youtube or sung "Happy Birthday To You" in a public location without paying royalties.

Yes, watching a music video on YouTube is of course the same thing as grabbing a ripped ROM of a game that you did not pay for and playing it.

Legally? Why, yes. Yes, it is. It's exactly the same thing, the only thing that differs is the scale.

And if we wanna talk about scale we can forget games, too, because they are also on the lower end, if we compare the price to other kinds of software.

But, bringing in the legal/moral argument, yes, watching a vid on YouTube is the same.

 

[Tanakh]

"We're sorry, this product is not available outside of Japan."

Does it? Weird, well... then you are fucked i guess... unless you might go to such extremes as to actually google "import japan videogame", http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-9g-49-en-70-3uvf.html there, they sell it to US. Out of stock, well... you either pirate it and be a duchebag towards the franchise you love or wait i guess.

There is no way you won't be able to get this game if you really want (without going to jp obv).

Legally? Why, yes. Yes, it is. It's exactly the same thing, the only thing that differs is the scale.

And if we wanna talk about scale we can forget games, too, because they are also on the lower end, if we compare the price to other kinds of software.

But, bringing in the legal/moral argument, yes, watching a vid on YouTube is the same.

It's all equally illegal. Fair use probably does not cover your average youtube music video, which is why they get taken down all the time.

Yeah, of course it's the same. Unless, you know, you happen to actually know something about law. Then you would realize what protects youtube doesn't work at all for pirated videogames. It might be a technicality, but they were up because youtube didn't knew they were violating copyright, as soon as they are aware of that, they are taken down, or so the laywers would say; for a pirated ROM might be legal if you are stupid enough not to know is illegal, but as soon as you realize (and if you breath that should be pretty soon) then you must stop using it, then again i am no laywer, so even that might be wrong because you are not the host like youtube is, you are the user, don't know if that changes things but it must.

Now don't get me wrong, I have pirated before, and I will pirate again, but when do I am fully aware that I am being a douchebad that's hurting the developer. That argument is BS and can't stand if you have just a little knowledge of the law.

I guess that is my whole point in this thread, you can get the game if you want and if you pirate it, fine, just stay aware that you are shitting on the developers of you ohh so loved game, if that is acceptable, then go ahead and pirate it.

 

[Da Orky Man]

For fuck's sake.
Pirating is stealing. There's no grey area, excuses or whatever else. You took something you should have paid for in the most convoluted way possible, with whatever excuses as 'I wouldn't have paid for it anyway' and 'It's not stealing because it's not a physical item', without paying.

The bottom line is you stole something. What part of this confuses you?

Dude, piracy is copyright infringement, not stealing. At least get your definitions right.

 

[Tanakh]

How about games that have never been released at all? Anywhere?

For me is still very easy to answer, same as a released game pirating.

If the game is done by a big company then it's copyrighted before launch, this is just a regular pirate buisness and happens here and there (Gears of War 3, Crysis 2, Ghostbusters, starfox 2). From a legal PoV it's irrelevant if it was released or not, from a moral one you are still taking a copy of the work of another person, a work you consider valuable and they too, without giving a dime, so for me it's the same.

And and the translation point is moot, to apply the english patch you don't require the game to be pirated, you just require the game to be a ROM in your computer.

Edit: Anyway, OP probably decided just to pirate the game, that's what i would have done when i was the average age demographics of this forum, so... this thread is kinda pointless now

 

[UltraPic]

Dude, piracy is copyright infringement, not stealing. At least get your definitions right.

Piracy = daisy chaining dvd burners and copying an copyrighted material, then selling the copies.

 

[Tanakh]

OMFG! If you google piracy right now the first entry is wikipedia's google cache saying:

"Piracy is an act of being mexican"

So i guess i am fucked anyway. lolz, amazing.

 

[cynicthnkr]

OMFG! If you google piracy right now the first entry is wikipedia's google cache saying:

"Piracy is an act of being mexican"

So i guess i am fucked anyway. lolz, amazing.

That pretty much answers the thread. If you aren't mexican you don't need to worry.

 

[coolbeans21]

In this age of the internet, imports etc.. is it really fair to say its impossible to get something not released in your region?

Pirates get all worked up when the antipirates refer to the act as "stealing", as its not quite the right definition of the word, also the government decided to release those retarded "if you pirate movies you may as well be a murderer, you filthy rotten handbag snatching thief you" PSA's which infest our dvds and movies.


It may not be technically stealing, but its still a crime and its a dickish thing to do as well, ***** about the greedy corporations all you want, but they still pay their workers for their time, when you pirate a game you say "fuck you Mr dev who put long long hours into this game, I want the fruits of you labor, but I'd rather not pay for it".

OP: If you love the series that much, make the effort, chuck some cash the devs way, then crack it/patch it/learn japanese to play it.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

I understand there's costs involved in making a game/movie/tv show available for another language.

However, as I've said, if much of UK/US TV was available as an itunes download, a day after showing, for a reasonable price, 'piracy' of these shows would be slashed overnight.

As has been said many times before, there's a sizable portion of 'pirates' who aren't doing it so they don't have to pay, they're doing it out of convenience, or because it's the only option to view it.

I admit to downloading TV shows from my own country sometimes, despite them being available free on the maker's sites, because I know I might not get around to watching them before they're removed, and the streaming leaves something to be desired at times.

Considering they're available to watch for nothing, with no ads, on the BBC iPlayer, am I robbing anyone?

Really I hope big business will catch up soon, and realise, a few hundred quid adding subtitles means they can release things for download in a whole new market.

 

[Sansha]

For fuck's sake.
Pirating is stealing. There's no grey area, excuses or whatever else. You took something you should have paid for in the most convoluted way possible, with whatever excuses as 'I wouldn't have paid for it anyway' and 'It's not stealing because it's not a physical item', without paying.

The bottom line is you stole something. What part of this confuses you?

Dude, piracy is copyright infringement, not stealing. At least get your definitions right.

Making a deliberate effort to acquire for free something you should be paying for sounds like stealing to me.

 

[Nu-Hir]

Unfortunately I couldn't get in before the whole "Piracy is Stealing, lulz" crowd. As pointed out before, piracy is copyright infringement. When you steal something, you don't magically duplicate the item you stole, causing both you and the victim of your thievery to enjoy the last single piece of bacon on the plate. If you stole it, you would enjoy it, not him.

All that aside, pirating the game because Nintendo doesn't think there's a market for it in the US is still illegal. Just import the game, make a ROM of it, then apply the patch to it. Or hell, get ballzy and just apply the patch directly to your imported game! Show Nintendo who's boss (it's Tony Danza, BTW).

 

[coolbeans21]

For fuck's sake.
Pirating is stealing. There's no grey area, excuses or whatever else. You took something you should have paid for in the most convoluted way possible, with whatever excuses as 'I wouldn't have paid for it anyway' and 'It's not stealing because it's not a physical item', without paying.

The bottom line is you stole something. What part of this confuses you?

Dude, piracy is copyright infringement, not stealing. At least get your definitions right.

Making a deliberate effort to acquire for free something you should be paying for sounds like stealing to me.

Best not to say its stealing, as pirates seem to think an incorrect definition of a crime excuses the crime itself, best to stick with the Pirating software is a dick move and illegal.

It fucks me off when pirates try to justify themselves with "well I wouldn't have payed for it anyway" so they haven't lost a sale, If you aren't going to pay for something, then don't take it, what right do you have to others hard work.

 

[Vegosiux]

Making a deliberate effort to acquire for free something you should be paying for sounds like stealing to me.

Well, if I wanted to steal a game I'd break into the store and steal a copy...and the kicker would be, such a game would be stolen, but a genuine non-pirated copy.

 

[coolbeans21]

Making a deliberate effort to acquire for free something you should be paying for sounds like stealing to me.

Well, if I wanted to steal a game I'd break into the store and steal a copy...and the kicker would be, such a game would be stolen, but a genuine non-pirated copy.

But put that to a reasonable person.

You "See I've got this game, I didn't pay for it and I broke the law"

Them "Sounds like you stole it to me"

You "But I didn't, you see technically I broke a different Law, its not theft cause I didn't deprive them of the original, duh get your definitions right"

Them "So you still broke the law, took something without paying for it, the store, developer and publisher received no money for their hard work"

You "......."

 

[Vegosiux]

But put that to a reasonable person.

You "See I've got this game, I didn't pay for it and I broke the law"

Them "Sounds like you stole it to me"

You "But I didn't, you see technically I broke a different Law, its not theft cause I didn't deprive them of the original, duh get your definitions right"

Them "So you still broke the law, took something without paying for it, the store, developer and publisher received no money for their hard work"

I don't consider "them" to be a reasonable person in that case, a reasonable person would first ask what exactly I did. Ergo, did I steal a copy or pirate a copy. After all, if anyone wants to charge me with anything, they need to charge me with something they can nail me for, and if they charge me with a felony I did not commit as opposed to the one I did, well, that's not my problem.

Or in other words, if the OP gets their hands on a copy of the game from Japan and then downloads a ROM, they've done nothing wrong, even if the downloaded game is "technically" not legal.

But then again, are we buying games or licenses to play them? It's either one or the other and I'm sick of people changing their stance on that because it's convenient for them.

 

[deidara]

I think it's illegal but morally sound at the same time.

 

[coolbeans21]

But put that to a reasonable person.

You "See I've got this game, I didn't pay for it and I broke the law"

Them "Sounds like you stole it to me"

You "But I didn't, you see technically I broke a different Law, its not theft cause I didn't deprive them of the original, duh get your definitions right"

Them "So you still broke the law, took something without paying for it, the store, developer and publisher received no money for their hard work"

I don't consider "them" to be a reasonable person in that case, a reasonable person would first ask what exactly I did. Ergo, did I steal a copy or pirate a copy. After all, if anyone wants to charge me with anything, they need to charge me with something they can nail me for, and if they charge me with a felony I did not commit as opposed to the one I did, well, that's not my problem.

Or in other words, if the OP gets their hands on a copy of the game from Japan and then downloads a ROM, they've done nothing wrong, even if the downloaded game is "technically" not legal.

But then again, are we buying games or licenses to play them? It's either one or the other and I'm sick of people changing their stance on that because it's convenient for them.

Lets put that to my wife

She has no great legal knowledge, she's fairly ethical and very reasonable. As far as she's concerned If I pirate something I've stolen it, If I say "no your wrong its not theft as I have not deprived the owner of it, its copyright infringement, which is different!"

She'll tell me not to be a prick and stop breaking the law.

I say "But your not being reasonable"

She'll say "You're taking something without paying and depriving the creators of money, what gives you the right to their work without paying"

And she'll cut off sex for a week cause I called her unreasonable

Course she's not law enforcement, they will know the correct charge to lay.


The important thing is the OP was asking if it was OK to Steal/Pirate/Infringe the copyright on a game, just because it wasn't available in his country, ignoring the possibility of importing or ordering the game over the internet, Thats illegal, also why would he do it to a series he enjoys, surely he wants to support them.


I don't know what the legal status is of downloading a ROM for a game they have purchased, I imagine its a violation of the EULA, not that I think anyone one would bother with a prosecution.


I think we've been buying licenses to play games for quite a while now, ownership of the data vanished a while back.

 

[zidine100]

I've never really thought about that. I'd like to play the Higurashi no Naku Koro ni games...

i thought there was a translated download verson over at mangagamer that would work.

 

[Sexy Devil]

The Fire Emblem game (and i love Fire Emblem), Fire Emblem: New Mysteries of the Emblem -Heroes of Light and Shadow- (phew long name) was released in Japan a year or two back. and has basically been denied a US release. I did a little looking (because the game sounds awesome but i'm not here to pimp a FE game)and found a Fan-Made Translation patch underway and pretty much almost complete (about 75% there it seems) now i'm just curious as to what you guys think.
1) the game was never, and foreseeably WILL never be released anywhere but Japan
2) i dunno about you, but i know *I* can't read Japanese. and i'm pretty sure many more fans of such games count as well
3) for a translation patch to work you HAVE to have a ROM copy (technically pirated) and an Emulator (at least to my knowledge... of course you can use a Flash Cart instead of an emulator but it's still basically the same)

now here's the discussion value
1) is it right, wrong, or morally grey to "pirate" such a game (note this encompasses ALL JP-only games, or on the flip side if you're Japanese, US/EU-only games)
and
2) from a more legal viewpoint, CAN you even pirate such a game? it was never released in your area, or language. and the only translation is from a fan patch that HAS to have a ROM to function.

i know that personally, i'm downloading the ROM and translation as soon as it's finished. but if Nintendo happens to finally decide after so long to release it in my area, i will GLADLY part with money to buy it legitimately.

I really see nothing wrong with it. If it is literally impossible for you to get your hands on a game in a format which you can use it by legitimate means then that's about as far from a lost sale as you can get. Personally I would've bought it online after I downloaded it just to say that I did own it too, but that's just me.

I said similar things about the Syndicate ban in Australia. If it's illegal for you obtain it in any form due to arbitrary, archaic laws, then I'm not going to begrudge you for pirating it, which yields less chance of them getting caught than trying to get something through customs.