Please let Pokemon gracefully exit.

SpectacularWebHead

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(Note, if your answer is: It always sucked, there is no place for you here)

So Black and white 2 is/are coming out soon. Oh joy. The least creative pokemon game with the worst designed pokemon and least innovation gets direct sequalage. Currently, I see a lot of expectant happy people out there looking forward to this atrocity. In an effort to not completly ruin what was a massive part of my childhood, I've been replaying the decent pokemon games in an effort to remind me that what was once good cannot be tainted by it's future sucking the hole at the bottom of the barrel to get some of the magic back.

As I "Upgraded" to the 3ds, I've been playing a lot of soulsilver and platinum recently.

I used to love pokemon. I would defend it to the death. Pokemon was a major part of my childhood, something I will be showing to my kids if and when I have them. UP TO A POINT.

Nintendo's cash machine is running low and therefore pokemon cannot be allowed to die. Which is sad. Pokemon as a franchise is like a coma patient, aware of its surroundings but unable to stop nintendo from wheeling it out in public every once in a while to get money from the people who want to keep it alive. It's intolerable, and Pokemon is suffering for it. Slowly we'll reach a point (Probably black and white 3) where pokemon has pushed itself past the point of redemption and no-one can look at it with fond memories anymore. There's only so many times you can release the exact same game and get away with it.

Pokemon is, essentially, always the same game. Which is fine, because it's a good game, and the plot isn't overly complex etc. It's simple fun, and the greatest thing about it, the only thing that always changes, is the variety of pokemon. (My personal favourite set of pokemon was Gen 2, overall there were not many I didn't want to catch). Pokemon sucks you in and makes you care about these little critters for one reason or another. As obvious as this sounds, the Pokemon make the game. Which is why Black and White wasn't very good, and the total lack of ANY new pokemon in black and white 2 is a piss take. The pokemon largely suck and there aren't going to be many new ones.

Heres the thing: Kanto was great, Johto was perfect, Hoenn... Good pokemon, didn't like the layout of the region, Sinnoh was pretty good all round, Unova... Crap pokemon, Okay layout, Crap pokemon.

What I'm really saying is, Pokemon is not very far over the "Can't even remember what I saw in it" point yet. If it ends with black and white 2, we can retain fond memories of what came before. But I think the best thing that we, the fans of pokemon can do, Is let go, let it pass on, and never forget it. Remember the great times we had, the first pokemon we caught, the first pokemon we evolved, everything great that we did on our grand adventure in the world of pokemon. Share the adventure with our sons and daughters, let them carry on as we did, and always remember how great it was.






And If nintendo still wants to milk the cash cow, they can remake until there balls drop off.
No New games, we know you guys have run out of variants on every animal name ever.
 

J. Mazarin

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Jun 25, 2012
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SUDDENLY: OPINIONS EVERYWHERE

Pokemon was an enormous part of my childhood, though I generally stopped paying attention after gen 2, sticking with R/B/Y and G/S/C. Black and White revived my interest in the series, and I'm genuinely looking forward to B/W 2 as it looks like they have a chance to be the best Pokemon games I've ever played.

You grew up. You got older. And now, you don't enjoy the new games as much as you enjoyed the older games when you were a kid. Sounds like you have a TRAGIC variation of Star-Wars-Fan-Itis.

Just because you don't like the series anymore doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. It's bigger than it's ever been, and it'll continue to grow whether you like it or not.

 

Kahunaburger

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Nintendo has discovered what is essentially crack for 5th graders. Why would they stop making it?
 

shrekfan246

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May 26, 2011
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I hope you have a powerful flame shield for when the Pokemon fans come out of the woodwork.

Anyway.

I'm not a huge fan of the Gen. 5 Pokemon designs, they're largely unimpressive to me, but I have to say one thing in favor of the games: Black & White developed a much more in-depth story than had been previously used. Which... is really a bit of a double-edged blade for the Pokemon franchise.

Black & White's opening feels much slower than the previous generations did, because there is a significantly larger amount of text and exposition being thrown out in the player's face before they even get to the first gym in relation to how the previous games have all gone about it (Note: I'm not actually sure about whether this is true for Platinum, Diamond & Pearl because... well, I don't remember those games anymore). It decided to take the story much more seriously than before, so I'll give props to Nintendo for that.

But as a person who doesn't care about the competitive side of Pokemon and/or isn't young anymore... I'm just feeling like Pokemon isn't really the franchise for me anymore. Nintendo put a heavier emphasis on the story in Black & White, but they didn't really do anything to change up the combat formula since the previous generation, except making the computer AI slightly more difficult to fight by buffing their stats. Artificial difficulty. Annoying.

Eh, I'm not going to tell other people to stop buying Pokemon games, but I don't think they're really for me anymore.
 

SpectacularWebHead

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TheKasp said:
SpectacularWebHead said:
Isn't that exactly what you're doing by implying that I'm wrong?
I implied that your conclusion based on your preference solely was wrong. Why? Because you lack any arguments.

Unlike you I did not state my preference as a fact but as what it is: My opinion ("I like").
My opinion on the designs is largely fact, if you take away any asthetic preferences I'm totally right, Black and white 2 will not have many new pokemon in it, thus a problem. And I think my arguments of "It's been going on too long and can only go downhill from here" are pretty aparent, and also opinions. I'm not telling you to think anything, I'm stating what I think on an open forum.
 

Kahunaburger

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shrekfan246 said:
but I have to say one thing in favor of the games: Black & White developed a much more in-depth story than had been previously used. Which... is really a bit of a double-edged blade for the Pokemon franchise.
I'm personally more on the side of "why would you ever put an emphasis on story in a pokemon game?" I mean, if you're a kid, you really could care less about cutscenes. You're just there for the pokemans. Mew was legendary because it was legitimately rare, and you were pretty much only going to get one through the duplication glitch with a friend that already had one. Mewtwo was pretty much just chilling in a cave, but it was legendary because it was legitimately powerful in-game and had a dungeon dedicated to building it up as this awesome escaped experiment. No extravagant JRPG plot necessary.
 

shrekfan246

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May 26, 2011
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Kahunaburger said:
shrekfan246 said:
but I have to say one thing in favor of the games: Black & White developed a much more in-depth story than had been previously used. Which... is really a bit of a double-edged blade for the Pokemon franchise.
I'm personally more on the side of "why would you ever put an emphasis on story in a pokemon game?" I mean, if you're a kid, you really could care less about cutscenes. You're just there for the pokemans. Mew was legendary because it was legitimately rare, and you were pretty much only going to get one through the duplication glitch with a friend that already had one. Mewtwo was pretty much just chilling in a cave, but it was legendary because it was legitimately powerful in-game and had a dungeon dedicated to building it up as this awesome escaped experiment. No extravagant JRPG plot necessary.
Well, I agree with that, but that doesn't mean I won't give Nintendo credit for trying something.

I guess I worded that first line poorly, I don't think the focus on story was a plus for the games, but I was impressed that Nintendo decided to actually do something crazy like that.
 

Ruzinus

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May 20, 2010
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So they make new designs... old fans don't like them and ask Nintendo to just slow down on the new pokemon for once.

So Nintendo goes... yeah, sure, alright, we'll do that. Let's iterate the series without further flooding the pokemon pool...

and you go JUST LET IT DIE!

Gen 2 isn't going anywhere. You can let go, tap out, keep your fond memories, without demanding that the series stop.

This shit is bigger than you. Deal with it.
 

Najos

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I haven't played a single Pokemon game since the first one (whatever the fucking colors were) and I didn't even like it much then, BUT...why the hell would Nintendo not make more? Also, why would you expect to enjoy something specifically designed to please children as an adult? This is a lot like someone saying, "Man, I loved Sesame Street so much when I was 3. I'm not sure why they keep going on with their counting, they've done the number 4 about 30 times now. They just need to bow out gracefully."
 

yeti585

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The last Pokemon game I played was "Leaf Green". This is because I was hanging out with my friend and he asked me to grind up his pokemon a bit while he was taking pictures of the giant tree limb that fell on his shed after a storm. The last Pokemon game I owned and liked was "Red" for the gameboy. You know, that brick of a handheld? But seriously, the series is to repetitive for me.
 

SpectacularWebHead

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TheKasp said:
SpectacularWebHead said:
My opinion on the designs is largely fact, if you take away any asthetic preferences I'm totally right, Black and white 2 will not have many new pokemon in it, thus a problem. And I think my arguments of "It's been going on too long and can only go downhill from here" are pretty aparent, and also opinions. I'm not telling you to think anything, I'm stating what I think on an open forum.
Black and White 2 are, like Yellow, Crytal, Smaragd (LeafGreen, Firered) and Platinum (HeartGold, Soulsilver) not a new generation. They are a sequel and build upon the story in Black and White. Assuming that games in the same generation would add new Pokemon is rather stupid if I think about everything that came before.

The last one is just a pessimistic guess based on dislike of the new gen. If we look on the salefigures and improvements made in Gen 5 I beg to differ.
I think that you'll find b and w 2 are the same game again. None of the crystal, Yellow, emerald etc built on the story of the previous, it was exactly the same as the other games and only served (In the case of emerald and platinum at least) to give the oppurtunity to get the third legendary easily.

Now, If this is the case with Black And White 2, except without the the third legendary pokemon unlock, they are in fact, the same game. You're analagy is either wrong or your entire point is wrong. As we can all as long term fans of the pokemon series recognise, pokemon games do not deviate from: Get starter, do first few gyms, defeat the team of the region you're in, get the legendary, final gym, pokemon league, as this has always been, in EVERY pokemon game. The only major difference that let nintendo get away with doing this for the past fifteen years is the added pokemon. Because they are not doing this and the plot deviation is likely, at best to be "You are the son/daughter of the guy in the last game, do what he/she did" not adding any new pokemon is RELEASING THE SAME GAME TWICE.
This is Logic.

Let's throw out everything I've said about what the new pokemon look like and assume thats something we can't agree on, your preferences are bound to be different to mine, which is, in fairness, perfectly fine. I don't mind that some people like the new pokemon even though I don't. That isn't my main problem. My problem is that this is an obvious con, and it sucks to see something so wonderful taken down to cloning itself for money. Salesfigures and "Improvements" prove nothing. There are diehard fans in things as massive as pokemon, and they would throw money at a series to keep it alive until they bankrupted themselves. Also:


Kahunaburger said:
Nintendo has discovered what is essentially crack for 5th graders.
You can bet there are millions of little kids who like pokemon in one form or another who use pester power to get their parents this new and upcoming game. Sales figures prove nothing, because for every one person who really, truly likes it, theres ten little kids who just need it. The entire thing is a con and it is ruining pokemon. Maybe not killed the series, but it's putting it on a slippery slope.
 

jackpackage200

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"Hey Nintendo, stop making new entries of a franchise that consistently makes millions and millions of dollars because of MY opinion"

People Like Pokemon games. From what I have learned from people who have the Japanese versions of Black and White 2, they are even better than the already excellent Black and White. I LOVE the pokemon franchise for their consistent high quality.

And yes I loved Black and White, sue me. I love a lot of the new pokemon. I liked the narrative. I loved the music.
 

CODE-D

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I didnt like a lot of the b+w designs and pokemon but others did, I hate that damn ice cream cone...and the monkeys....and tepig outclassing the other two while being another fire/fight type starter..
The actual story was better than the others have ever been.
But black and white 2 have extra stuff and I want genesect so Im gonna buy one.

Though you speak as if there are so many other ds games that are better than pokemon so that there is no need for its series anymore, there arent.
 

Terminate421

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SpectacularWebHead said:
snip and I am fucking angry.
NO NO NO NO NO!



Pokemon for the past 15 years has always relied on the core games to introduce new pokemon and bring us back the rich and fun world with the same gameplay a sequel should always do. The sequel then add stuff that works that doesn't build a completely new game. If you wanted new gameplay with pokemon thats what Spin-offs are for:

Exhibit A:



Here we have a game that is fucking awesome that no-one seems to notice that does in fact DO SOMETHING NEW WITH POKEMON. It also takes advantage of the newer pokemon that are out as well. Providing with a new game altogether.

Also, running out of ideas? Last I checked, they had plenty of new ones, the moment I realize that it took about 5 games to make an eagle pokemon:



Tells me that they've still got more in store for us.

Pokemon is still going strong, it is not dying in sales, nor does it have a "drop in quality" in designs or any of the like. Almost every hater with this franchise or people who say "let it die" are the ones who come up with the WRONG reasons as to why it is such. Pokemon is no different to a franchise as is any other nintendo franchise. Mario does platforming stuff, Metroid is different shooting, Zelda is Adventure, and Pokemon is RPG/Strategy.

I fully support newer pokemon even if I don't agree with certain choices. Not because I'm some "Blind fanboy" but because I love something.