Please Understand, Nintendo is the Bad Guy

Aiddon_v1legacy

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CaitSeith said:
I disagree in the case of this Youtuber:

1. Most people already know who Mario is.
2. He is using hacked roms. If the viewers wants to try to do what they see on the video, they can't buy the ROM from Nintendo.

I don't agree with Nintendo actions (being so aggressive gives them worst publicity than leaving the videos alone), but in this case the "free advertisement" argument doesn't fit.
The "free advertisement" argument in general has never worked for defending ROM hacks or tool-assisted speed runs or Let's Plays because there's never been any proof of them bolstering a game in the first place. None, nada, there is no proof of correlation. And I would say this to Youtubers: this is probably just going to be the beginning. If people think Nintendo is harsh, wait until other companies hop on and start enacting their own policies, because I doubt they'll be as generous as Nintendo.
 

xedobubble

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"That would be silly. The whole "defend it or lose it" applies to trademarks. And it's not a punishment to force you to sue people, it's just a natural consequence that if your word or symbol becomes a general part of the language and culture (like using the word "kleenex" to mean "any paper I use to blow my nose on") that it can no longer be enforced because you can't claim to own general ideas like that. "

Er. You make a very good argument here for exactly why trademark law forces companies to sue people using their IP, art assets, and whatnot without permission here. No company wants their multimillion or multibillion dollar franchise to become a generalized term, it devastates the work they put into creating and branding new IP. Becoming the next Kleenex or Xerox terrifies them all. I think it's Lego that strictly mandates the term 'Lego brick' to describe their objects, to avoid generalization.

Nintendo currently sells classic games that are being used in romhacks.
They also just released what is probably their biggest hit of the year, using those same assets.
They may very well have a legal obligation to their investors to show that they are cracking down on piracy and romhacks to protect their trademark until a court of law DOES toss this nonsense out, which is why they quickly did this right before the release of mario maker and then... has there been a second round sense then? They might just have needed to hit a corporate checkbox of 'did due diligence to appease investors,' which would include <a href=http://kotaku.com/nintendo-investor-i-do-not-understand-video-games-1599625657>this guy, because Nintendo is invested in by shareholders that don't understand why they talk about video games, I kid you not.

(Guy probably wishes they were making pachinko machines to get a higher return on investment. I wonder if he invests in Konami?)

That might explain a lot of anti-consumer bad behavior, if they're in thrall to anti-consumer idiots. It's a horrible move from start to finish and completely inexcusable, but it's important that we understand that when shareholders have some control over corporations, those companies have to prove they are being responsible with the digital assets they control. We probably see a lot of horrible misguided DRM implemented just to avoid being exposed to a lawsuit from investors that the business is negligently missing out on potential profits. (This might also explain why the Nintendo Youtube program is only a Youtube program - that's where the money is. You can make a monetized video on literally any or every other platform, Nintendo has no policy to police you. The inconsistency that it is a Youtube creators program, not a web or video creators program, is interesting).

I'm not disagreeing that this was a wretched thing for Nintendo to do. All of the points made hold true. Nintendo has no proof of wrongdoing, no copyrights were in danger, this wouldn't hold up in a court of law. But they DO need to defend their trademarks, and they have to go as far as their shareholders demand, which won't stop until they get challenged in a court of law and beaten. Which would probably come as a relief to EVERYONE.

What we really need is to shake up our environment for distributing digital video here. Nintendo isn't our only bad actor here - Youtube has a huge market share of web video, always sides with the company over the user, abuse is never acted on quickly or goes to a proper trial, etc. If Youtube stops permitting and encouraging this behavior, we win. If they don't, they open the door to EA, Ubisoft, Activision, and all our other favorites doing the same thing, or even worse, getting shareholders that demand they regulate Youtube the way they do DRM on PC.
 

SecondPrize

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You really think video game copyrights holders don't have the rights to broadcasts of their games?
 

Cold Shiny

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Unfortunately, Nintendo's trespasses are a joke compared to the crap other game companies pull.

Does it justify Nintendo, heck no, but they are still the better of two evils.

Remember when Microsoft tried to make it so nobody could actually own their own games anymore?
That makes Nintendo saints in comparison.

As a Nintendo fanboy, I have to accept that Nintendo is not a perfect entity, and they will do dumb things.

Still the best game company in existence.
 

CrystalShadow

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Apr 11, 2009
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Figures.
Youtube and Nintendo. Can't win, can you?

My youtube channel could have... At a guess, 90% of everything taken off it if Nintendo were to take issue with what I do.
I have better things to worry about, but it does make me wonder every time I upload a video...
Is this going to get flagged for something stupid?

To be fair, youtube itself is complicit in this.

Copyright laws are abusive and out of touch enough as it is without bringing in an automated unaccountable process where the concepts of a 'fair trial' or anything even remotely resembling it are non-existent.

Basically, youtube can pull your videos at any moment, for any reason, and tell you any random BS they like, and you can't stop them.

What do they do with this? Let large corporations flagrantly abuse individuals.
Sometimes even to the point that a company will steal your work, then flag your video (which they stole content from) as matching 'their' work...

Absurd system.
And Nintendo... Give it a rest already... >_<
 

Isalan

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Interesting read, though nothing will change without a huge overhaul on Google's end, and they have no interest in pissing off large corporations who contribute to their advertising sales.

Give people the tools to be dicks and you can place a pretty safe bet that a reasonable percentage of the population will act like dicks. Legality is their umbrella, and the fake victim shtick will pluck at the heartstrings of the fan boys.

Also, what the hell is "naïve"? Is that supposed to be naive?
 

Mad World

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Great article. You took an unpopular opinion, and did a very good job of backing it up.

Man... I don't know what Nintendo's problem is.
 

Davroth

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Xeorm said:
Davroth said:
TAS are still promoting the use of ROMs and ROM hacks. Why should they look favourable on ROMs when it very nearly killed one of their handhelds in the past? They have any right to crack down on that.
They do have the right to crack down on any illegal activity regarding their property, including downloading ROMs. The big problem, though, is that the video of them doing something (even if that something is illegal) is not itself illegal or an infringement on their property. I'd have zero problems with Nintendo using the videos as evidence that the user in question has illegal software or has done something illegal. (At least legally. I'd probably say that it's in their best interests to let it continue, but that's their choice, not mine)

By focusing on targeting innocent youtube video makers and using a badly made system to bully them into submission, Nintendo has earned their evil title.
You do nothing to disprove what I said, so I don't know why you bothered to reply at all. ROMs and ROM hacks are in most cases illegal. TAS promotes both ROM usage and ROM hacks. Why do people act like emulation is not illegal? Because it very much is in most of the western world. It doesn't serve to promote Nintendo in any way, since it doesn't really promote those old games, but merely promotes getting ROMs of those games and hacking them for TAS. That youtube video maker is not "innocent", people really want to take his side, but in reality, ROM hacks exist in an uncomfortable grey zone. And if you build your youtube channel on a not 100% legal activity, you have to expect that something might happen to it. To me, protecting this youtuber is not different from those people selling custom DS cartiges that allowed you to play SD cards with DS roms on them on your NDS. The cartige itself wasn't illegal either, but it wasn't used for anything but illegal activities by its buyers.

Charcharo said:
Davroth said:
TAS are still promoting the use of ROMs and ROM hacks. Why should they look favourable on ROMs when it very nearly killed one of their handhelds in the past? They have any right to crack down on that.
And we have the right to call them... bad names (in my case) and make fun of how stupid, incompetent, naive, aggressive, barbaric and moronic they are :p

*That is no excuse BTW.
So? You think a cooperation like Nintendo cares? Do you think this will sway anyone? Stories like this always brings the same people out of the woodwork who were just waiting to find a new excuse to complain about Nintendo. It's nothing new. Have you ever noticed that there have been plenty of youtube channels that run Nintendo content without a hitch and have been for years now? Oh gee, I wonder how they manage... That is to say, I know how. They don't promote illegal activities and make sure that their work is transformative and not just a straight let's play. And they are obviously not part of the creators program since they do games from other companies as well.

People want to blow this up way out of proportion.

Mad World said:
Great article. You took an unpopular opinion, and did a very good job of backing it up.

Man... I don't know what Nintendo's problem is.
Since when is hating Nintendo unpopular?
 

Fox12

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Casual Shinji said:
Man, we've had thread after thread from Nintendo fans complaining about how everyone on this site is constantly dumping on Nintendo, when in actuality nobody is, and then you go and drop a deuce like this. Brilliant! XD

OT: Yeah, Nintendo is a big idiot when it comes to online. Similar to how Studio Ghibli flips its shit if you dare post any footage or music from their movies on Youtube. Seems all that delightful, pure-hearted charm comes with a major drawback. Like your kindly grandfather who tells the most wonderful tales, but who can then suddenly go on a racist rant.
Ugh, and lets not even get started on Anno and Studio Khara, the makers of the one series that begs for critical analysis.

Although, I'm not sure they have quite the same family friendly reputation that Ghibli and Nintendo have.
 

Sniper Team 4

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Yeah, Nintendo has always been completely out of touch when it comes to the internet, and especially YouTube. Which has always been baffling to many a gamer, and to me it just makes me shake my head in disbelief.
And then there are the people that come screaming to Nintedo's defense every time they do this. I still remember how this forum blew up when this happened to Angry Joe.
 

Darkness665

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This trend by Nintendo is worrisome. They have refused to enter markets that literally have customers clamoring for their products*. Continually attacking their fans is counter productive, both in wasting good will and actual resources. One wonders how much longer they are going to survive? Losing Nintendo has little interest for me, I have never liked their huge reliance on regurgitation, nor for that matter side-scrolling platformers.

Well stated Shamus, as usual.

* Although they have recently said they were doing mobile, I don't recall much beyond that.
 

OldNewNewOld

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Mad World said:
Great article. You took an unpopular opinion, and did a very good job of backing it up.

Man... I don't know what Nintendo's problem is.
What?
Since when is that a unpopular opinion?
 

martyrdrebel27

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SecondPrize said:
You really think video game copyrights holders don't have the rights to broadcasts of their games?
they clearly don't. the moment you interact with the title, any video of it becomes a "transformative work". The very nature of interactivity means that each experience is unique and personal, unlike posting a movie to youtube, something that everybody experiences the same way, every time. posting a video of a game doesn't make the viewer feel as though they themselves have played the game.
 

EndlessSporadic

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Pretty sure if people filed a class action lawsuit against Nintendo, Nintendo would lose in court. People need to wake up and learn that publishers are nothing more than suits trying to control everything and make as much money as possible. Nintendo is no different. Publishers are completely heartless and couldn't care less about the industry they are serving. All of this "we love our fans" bullshit that Nintendo keeps spouting is complete nonsense. Take off your rose colored classes for a second and you would be able to see it instantly. Their facade exists to keep their fans from realizing what a steaming pile of shite that company is. I won't argue that they don't make good software, but outside of that they treat anybody who isn't them like shite.

#FucKonami and #FuckNintendo
 

Charli

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While I still don't put Nintendo in the 'EA' camp, I still agree this is a policy of theirs that just baffles me. I can't understand why no one with any power at Nintendo doesn't figure out why people film and watch these videos and study how it benefits their exposure.

It's a shitty thing but legal departments are ruthless when they want to justify their existence and can convince good companies to be invested in really dumb and anti-consumer friendly ideals that damage the company long term but benefit that department in the short term.
 

BoredRolePlayer

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Well it sounds like a precedent/share holder issue. I mean everyone can scream anti consumer, but Nintendo does legally have to protect their IP's if they feel people are pushing to far. I remember when Square did the same thing to a fan made game people were making because they were pretty much screwing with the chrono trigger rom.

This sounds like they are going after the Rom Hackers cause of Mario Maker being a thing now, and if that IS the case it sounds like they are trying to protect their product (Which again legally required to make share holders happy). And note I do support people modding roms and stuff (You can see some killer stuff), but at the same time this IS a risk you are having to take missing with copywritten code (This isn't the same as Bethesda giving you the tools to make your own stuff, you ARE breaking copy written code). And to say Nintendo is bad is funny given how they didn't shut down Mother 3's English rom translation. Hell I don't think I even heard of Nintendo did C&D's on Mother Zero.

I agree this all sucks and would like for IP holders to loosen up because it is getting out of hand. There is one thing I wish people would quit doing though. Comparing corporations like Nintendo with shareholders and IP stuff that ties their hands on stuff like this, and a Indie company who would live or die on the sale of their game. Again I do wish they would loosen their grip, but I do understand WHY they do this.
 

The_Great_Galendo

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Davroth said:
Xeorm said:
Davroth said:
TAS are still promoting the use of ROMs and ROM hacks. Why should they look favourable on ROMs when it very nearly killed one of their handhelds in the past? They have any right to crack down on that.
They do have the right to crack down on any illegal activity regarding their property, including downloading ROMs. The big problem, though, is that the video of them doing something (even if that something is illegal) is not itself illegal or an infringement on their property. I'd have zero problems with Nintendo using the videos as evidence that the user in question has illegal software or has done something illegal. (At least legally. I'd probably say that it's in their best interests to let it continue, but that's their choice, not mine)

By focusing on targeting innocent youtube video makers and using a badly made system to bully them into submission, Nintendo has earned their evil title.
You do nothing to disprove what I said, so I don't know why you bothered to reply at all. ROMs and ROM hacks are in most cases illegal. TAS promotes both ROM usage and ROM hacks. Why do people act like emulation is not illegal? Because it very much is in most of the western world. It doesn't serve to promote Nintendo in any way, since it doesn't really promote those old games, but merely promotes getting ROMs of those games and hacking them for TAS. That youtube video maker is not "innocent", people really want to take his side, but in reality, ROM hacks exist in an uncomfortable grey zone. And if you build your youtube channel on a not 100% legal activity, you have to expect that something might happen to it. To me, protecting this youtuber is not different from those people selling custom DS cartiges that allowed you to play SD cards with DS roms on them on your NDS. The cartige itself wasn't illegal either, but it wasn't used for anything but illegal activities by its buyers.
I think Xeorm's point is that although an activity may be illegal, posting a video of that activity online isn't necessarily so. If you rob a store, that's illegal. If you post a video of you robbing a store, that's incredibly stupid and you should expect to be arrested, but the police will arrest you for robbing the store, not for posting the video.

In a similar vein, if Nintendo issues a DMCA takedown, they're alleging that the video itself is violating the DMCA. Now I'm not sure if it is or isn't (I haven't seen the video, and IANAL), but just because the video could only be produced using an illegal ROM hack doesn't necessarily mean that the video itself is illegal.
 

Vigormortis

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Great article, Shamus. It's nice to see a critique of Nintendo's moronic and troubling practices that actually provides explanations for the criticisms.

The thing I find most fascinating about all of this are the excuses I've seen for the company's behavior. Much of it boils down to, "Yeah it's all bullshit, but it's okay because they're not as bad as EA or Activision!"[footnote]
In fact, they should adopt that as the company slogan. "Nintendo: At least we're not EA"
[/footnote]

Except, just as Shamus explained in the article, they're worse than EA and Activision on this matter.

The mental gymnastics on display are on par with the complex acts seen in Cirque du Soleil.