Please Understand, Nintendo is the Bad Guy

[Secondhand Revenant]

I'm not saying Nintendo isn't being a massive dick here. It doesn't excuse them. Still doesn't stop me from saying you're wrong here. Nintendo is NOT worse than EA and Activision. I mean, seriously. How many people has EA put out of work after buying their studios just to get the IP rights? Your analogy is way off. This isn't like a serial killer compared to a wife murderer. This is a serial killer compared to someone that's pushing a kid's face into a birthday cake or pantsing them in front of their crush. Still a massive dick move, but is in NO WAY a fitting comparison.

Except, it is.

I invite you to look into the long and storied history of Nintendo's shaking and, at times, disgusting relationship with 3rd party (and even some 2nd party) devs. The way they treated devs back in the NES and SNES days, and to some degree even today, was especially appalling. They had a virtual monopoly on the console market, and they were NOT above abusing that position. Much of their business practices today still reflect that mentality.

So, from a consumer and industry point of view, Nintendo is damn near as bad as EA and Activision.

Besides, at least EA and others aren't pulling the bullshit that is Amiibos on their consumer bases...

As a consumer who doesn't make videos, why should I care about this? If I look at EA and I look at Nintendo, how is it that Nintendo affects me worse in terms of just getting a game and playing it? EA seems to have a long tradition of costly DLC. Now I haven't played much Nintendo for a while aside from Pokémon because I've switched to PC over console but what does Nintendo do? What was presented here simply doesn't affect what I want to do with games. It seems to affect a rather specific segment of consumers so to call it bad for consumers seems a bit too general

 

[Something Amyss]

I just did.

You didn't. You just shifted away from your original comment. I mean, it's fine if you don't want to, but why even reply?

I guess its a good thing I never said ROMs should be illegal or only used for piracy or are whatever you are suspicious over, huh?

Emphasis mine. If you don't know what I'm "suspicious over," it's probably best not to claim your argument is not that. And since your first two guesses were wrong, I'm pretty sure you didn't know. Are you seriously trying to rebut an argument without understanding the argument?

 

[kris40k]

Emphasis mine. If you don't know what I'm "suspicious over," it's probably best not to claim your argument is not that. And since your first two guesses were wrong, I'm pretty sure you didn't know. Are you seriously trying to rebut an argument without understanding the argument?

I can only speak to what you have posted

Spoiler: Which was this

I didn't address Nintendfo. I addressed the argument you made. The one that sounds suspiciously like one that was thrown out by courts in the Beta days of home video. One that's been repeatedly thrown out or CD and DVD burners would be illegal. One that has been thrown out with digital distribution methods, or I'd be a criminal for using torrent services even though I use them for legit purposes (like when a bundle service asks us to use them for our purchases to save them on server costs that could instead go to charity).

The argument is bad regardless of whether Nintendo is in the right or wrong here.

Are you seriously trying to make an argument (to be rebutted) without actually posting your argument?

 

[deadish]

Nintendo has done a lot of bad things in it's history as a video game console manufacturer and game developer.

During the NES days they were tyrants that force non-compete exclusivity agreements on 3rd party developers.

During the 90s Congressional witch hunt against video games, they folded like bitches and took every opportunity to prompt themselves and slander SEGA.

All this is conveniently forgotten by Nintendo fanboys.

What can I say, Nintendo to them is like a religion - like soccer(aka football in the rest of the world) is to many countries, like football is to the US ... no matter how scandal-plagued the organisations running them are, people will still give money to them.

 

[JohnnyDelRay]

I still don't get in the slightest why they would want to take down or otherwise punish Let's Players etc. for giving them FREE PUBLICITY. They've bought your product, many aren't even making money off it, and they're giving you free advertising on how much fun it is to play with friends or solo, and you shit on them?? Just goes beyond me.

Then again, the whole concept of branding is still foreign to me, even in this modern day. I still don't understand how people could wear a shirt with a massive logo covering the whole thing, and actually pay to wear it...shouldn't it be the other way round?

Because it isn't; the channel in question was using a tool-assisted ROM-Hack, which means it is not representative of the actual product. Nor is it proof he bought it. And that's before we get into how there is still no evidence of Youtube LP's/speed runs translating in any way to "free advertising."

So you're referring to the channel in question, fine. I was actually referring to LP's in general, in which cases like Angry Joe had gotten videos taken down. You want to say that a video which thousands or millions of people view, of guys playing the game and having a great time with friends, doesn't translate to "free advertising", well ok not advertising, but it's a REAL LIFE TESTIMONIAL which has been proven by the number of views to reach a wide audience, which is better than any stupid advertising. So, still not a great idea to take it down.

But if you are talking about ROM hacks and what have you not representing the actual product, then that means that anyone with a mod or skin in their game should have their LP taken down as well?

 

[Mad World]

What?
Since when is that a unpopular opinion?

Since always? I don't know. Read, "We're used to thinking of Nintendo as the 'good guys...'" And as the article points out, publishers such as EA, for example, are typically under fire. It's somewhat rare for Nintendo to be in the sights with respect to an issue such as this.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

Nintendo has done a lot of bad things in it's history as a video game console manufacturer and game developer.

During the NES days they were tyrants that force non-compete exclusivity agreements on 3rd party developers.

During the 90s Congressional witch hunt against video games, they folded like bitches and took every opportunity to prompt themselves and slander SEGA.

All this is conveniently forgotten by Nintendo fanboys.

What can I say, Nintendo to them is like a religion - like soccer(aka football in the rest of the world) is to many countries, like football is to the US ... no matter how scandal-plagued the organisations running them are, people will still give money to them.

What's funny is 90% of the context for that is missing, and of course you resort to loaded words in order to skew the perspective. And how that was twenty years ago under different people and thus is not relevant to the conversation at hand.

 

[sonicneedslovetoo]

So I think they're trying to do this slowly, last year it was the mob affiliate program, then it starts aggressively defending its copyright on youtube. Either of these things together might actually create a backlash for people who like Nintendo to wake up and start getting angry at them, but setting them a year apart when everybody forgot about the other people just lethargically say "they aren't as bad as EA" or "they are perfectly within their rights and therefore they can do no wrong" rather than actually doing anything. I can't wait to see what they do next year!
How about this, lets come up with the thing Nintendo will do next to piss on their customers who will just say "Activision's piss smells worse."

Also if you want to financially hurt them and still play Nintendo stuff, buy used. If you don't support their decisions just start buying used Nintendo stuff, ignore the Virtual Console games if you can pick up a used Retron whatever and play the original Mario bros games from a used cartridge they are cheap as dirt these days.

 

[deadish]

Nintendo has done a lot of bad things in it's history as a video game console manufacturer and game developer.

During the NES days they were tyrants that force non-compete exclusivity agreements on 3rd party developers.

During the 90s Congressional witch hunt against video games, they folded like bitches and took every opportunity to prompt themselves and slander SEGA.

All this is conveniently forgotten by Nintendo fanboys.

What can I say, Nintendo to them is like a religion - like soccer(aka football in the rest of the world) is to many countries, like football is to the US ... no matter how scandal-plagued the organisations running them are, people will still give money to them.

What's funny is 90% of the context for that is missing, and of course you resort to loaded words in order to skew the perspective. And how that was twenty years ago under different people and thus is not relevant to the conversation at hand.

Loaded? I'm just telling it as it is. Which part is "loaded"?

Either way, I'm just pointing out that the company has a stained past.

If it was 20 years ago and thus not relevant. Mario and stuff was 20 years ago too. You can't cherry pick what to remember and what not to.

The current Nintendo is nothing impressive. Their hardware is a bad joke. Their games are recycled oldies - except for Splatoon; but it's not as if other console makers don't put out original stuff (e.g. Little Big Planet, God of War series ...).

 

[Pinkilicious]

What gets me is Nintendo fans defending Nintendo for attacking other Nintendo fans. Is there a 'game as Nintendo intended it only' faction or something?

There is actually possibility for that kind of thing to exist anywhere. The "ones that believe only they know the creator's true vision." The Megaman Legends 3 fangame fell prey to such things and fell apart (for example, there was a giant flamewar over whether or not Volnutt should be able to slide) You see this in comics based on movies, if the creator has no involvement in the movie. Even in MLP, you have the "Faustwubbers" that maintain the only canon seasons are the first two. In anime and sci-fi, it is the ones that state the remakes/spinoffs can never be as good as the original.

Pretty sure if people filed a class action lawsuit against Nintendo, Nintendo would lose in court. People need to wake up and learn that publishers are nothing more than suits trying to control everything and make as much money as possible. Nintendo is no different. Publishers are completely heartless and couldn't care less about the industry they are serving. All of this "we love our fans" bullshit that Nintendo keeps spouting is complete nonsense. Take off your rose colored classes for a second and you would be able to see it instantly. Their facade exists to keep their fans from realizing what a steaming pile of shite that company is. I won't argue that they don't make good software, but outside of that they treat anybody who isn't them like shite.

#FucKonami and #FuckNintendo

I reckon it's more the fault of kids that didn't grow up with an NES, only an SNES. This YT thing is really just them trying to export their "seal of quality" practices onto the internet. Anyone that remembers the legacies of Wisdom Tree and Tengen remembers the Seal of Quality nonsense. This is actually not something new for Nintendo. It's just that these YT kids don't remember the first time.

 

[Strazdas]

Lots of people think that if you don't sue every perception of copyright infringement that you "lose your copyright". That's how trademarks work, not copyrights.

Actually, no, Trademarks do not work that way either [https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/11/trademark-law-does-not-require-companies-tirelessly-censor-internet]. Its a completely mythical thing that company lawyers made up to look better for PR. The ONLY way to loose a trademark is if it has become a general use word (instead of a trademark), as in Refrigerator or Elevator which both were trademarks. the only company that is even close to being like that is Google.

Not quite. Technically (at least under US law) it is piracy unless you create the copy yourself from your own cartridge; even if you own the game, and despite the fact that a downloaded copy is byte-for-byte identical to a ROM you dumped yourself, that distinction is there. Not that Nintendo can prove either way from just a YouTube video.

meanwhile in a parts of the world that hasnt gone completely insane making backup copies, including downloading them from others, is legal as long as you own the original (or even owned it in the past, as in if it broke you can use the backup copy while throwing the original away). Obviuosly if you sell it you cannot legally use the backup copy, but this applies equally to both self made and downlaoded ones.

TAS are still promoting the use of ROMs and ROM hacks. Why should they look favourable on ROMs when it very nearly killed one of their handhelds in the past? They have any right to crack down on that.

No, they do not. as in, they dont have a legal right to crack down on copying ROMs because it is the purchasers legal right. Ability to create ROMs havent killed any console yet, if they killed the handheld perhaps it was because of their attorciuos handling of that handheld? After all Nintendo is famous for making their handhelds as unattractive as possible.

What they also dont have a right, legally speaking, is taking down videos like that. as in, what nintendo did here is flat out illegal.

You really think video game copyrights holders don't have the rights to broadcasts of their games?

no they do not. they have the rights to their videogames, as in, the code that makes up a videogame. you cannot broadcast the code. you can however film yourself playing a game.

Great article. You took an unpopular opinion, and did a very good job of backing it up.

Man... I don't know what Nintendo's problem is.

What?
Since when is that a unpopular opinion?

Since rabid nintendo zealot hoardes come out at the mention of the name. which is to say, for the last decade or so. There is no voting system on this forum, but take Reddit or similar sites for example, every time somone says something bad about nintendo he gets downvoted to hell by blind fanboyism that nintendo seems to be the perfect example off. Heck even on this forum we had one guy that took NIntendos word to be more important than actual law when the two conflicted. He doesnt seem to be around anymore, no idea why he left.

Because it isn't; the channel in question was using a tool-assisted ROM-Hack, which means it is not representative of the actual product. Nor is it proof he bought it. And that's before we get into how there is still no evidence of Youtube LP's/speed runs translating in any way to "free advertising."

1. Doesnt matter.
2. It is up to Nintendo to prove he didnt buy it, not the other way around.
3. In this very thread there is evidence of it translating into purchases, even if it is one person at a time.
4. Regardless if its free advertisement or not, the videos do not break any laws and their takedown is illegal.

Technically doing the "right thing" (arguably as other posters seem to point out, and they know the terrible, ancient US laws better than I) is not equal to doing something that should not be laughed at or punished by the fans or media...

The US laws are not ancient. In fact, the old copyright laws were much more sane before they started being updated by corporations (namely - mostly Disney, who are the great example of pure evil company actually). If we were to go back to the 1831 copyright act in US we would have a much much more sane system. The current Mickey mouse act [http://artlawjournal.com/mickey-mouse-keeps-changing-copyright-law/] is actually quite recent.

 

[drivetheory]

Honestly this is just all a bi-product of the Copyright Laws in the United States and how multinational corporations influence how such laws are written & enforced... I'm not surprised and I don't expect anything to change, despite Elliot taking down Evil Corp.
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Copyright Law of the United States of America and Related Laws Contained in Title 17 of the United States Code
http://copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#117

§ 117 . Limitations on exclusive rights: Computer programs
(a) Making of Additional Copy or Adaptation by Owner of Copy.?Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided:

(2) that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes only and that all archival copies are destroyed in the event that continued possession of the computer program should cease to be rightful.

The above section explicitly deals with the making of backups, even the ESA (Entertainment Software Association) references this part of the law:
http://www.theesa.com/public-policy/intellectual-property/content-protection/content-protection-faqs/
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However, when it comes to ROMs from old game systems there's also...

The US Copyright Law Section 1201 Exemptions to Prohibition Against Circumvention of Technological Measures Protecting Copyrighted Works:

The Librarian of Congress, on the recommendation of the Register of Copyrights, has announced the classes of works subject to the exemption from the prohibition against circumvention of technological measures that control access to copyrighted works. Persons making noninfringing uses of the following six classes of works will not be subject to the prohibition against circumventing access controls (17 U.S.C. § 1201(a)(1)) during the next three years.

relevant exemption included from 2003 to 2006:
http://copyright.gov/1201/2003/

(3) Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have become obsolete and which require the original media or hardware as a condition of access. A format shall be considered obsolete if the machine or system necessary to render perceptible a work stored in that format is no longer manufactured or is no longer reasonably available in the commercial marketplace.

relevant exemption included from 2006 to 2009:
http://copyright.gov/1201/2006/

2. Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have become obsolete and that require the original media or hardware as a condition of access, when circumvention is accomplished for the purpose of preservation or archival reproduction of published digital works by a library or archive. A format shall be considered obsolete if the machine or system necessary to render perceptible a work stored in that format is no longer manufactured or is no longer reasonably available in the commercial marketplace.

In 2009 the exemption was no longer included.
http://copyright.gov/fedreg/2010/75fr43825.pdf

In 2012 the exemption was nowhere to be found either.
http://copyright.gov/fedreg/2012/77fr65260.pdf

the current state of 1201 in 2015 is here:
http://www.copyright.gov/1201/
https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2014/12/12/2014-29237/exemption-to-prohibition-on-circumvention-of-copyright-protection-systems-for-access-control
http://copyright.gov/1201/2015/post-hearing/answers/
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Past Rulemaking Proceedings
http://copyright.gov/rulemaking/past-rulemaking.html
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I'm not a lawyer, I don't have all the answers, but knowledge is power and I hope I've provided you all some good reading material.