Plot holes in "Avatar"

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2012 Wont Happen

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I've got a plot hole that you didn't point out-

The movie is about 10 foot tall blue cat people inhabiting some sort of brain-tree planet with flying mountains.

Sarcasm aside, those are good points that I had not noticed. You get an observational skills cookie!

 

ReincarnatedFTP

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Skarvig said:
StevieWonderMk2 said:
It sells for 20 mil a kilo. At the end they explain that the humans are going back to their dying planet. How much more do they need to spell it out?
They go back to their dying planet cause they lost their way to live with the planet.

StevieWonderMk2 said:
That, and I fail to see how it makes sense. It's fairly clear that Unobtanium is incredibly important. How do I know this? It sells for 20 mil a kilo and is worth building a giant base on an alien world whilst funding cutting edge biological research. You don't need someone to explicitly say "We are here to make room temperature superconductors", it's fairly heavily implied.
Well you don't need diamonds, gold or platinum to live, but they are a lot more expensive than water.
Unobtanium seems to be a metal that isn't avaible on earth. They are the only one to sell this and therefor rule the price. It's called a monopoly.

And of course greed is the major driving force. Guess why America didn't had universal healthcare till now. It's because America wanted it's people to be healthy. No, wait it's the opposite, FUCKING MONEY!
Ugggh.
Thanks for reminding me.
The healthcare bill is to the point where they cut out the public option to appease the conservatives.
Not only will we not get the best thing (single payer), the Democrats made a COMPROMISE ON A COMPROMISE. It's not likely to pass now, and even if it does it's a mandate without a public option. I.E. Just giving greedy insurance companies monetary handouts. Arghhhhhh.
 

Canid117

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AndyFromMonday said:
Canid117 said:
I still wanna know how he regained consciousness seconds after he put the mask on. I thought it took a few minutes at least.
AndyFromMonday said:
Jake fainted. A faint is when not enough oxygen is being transported to the brain. Recovering from a faint doesn't take more than 7 seconds. I'm guessing since the Na'vi administrated oxygen quite fast to Jake he didn't even require 7 seconds.
What about when you are breathing in lethal toxins too?

AndyFromMonday said:
Canid117 said:
Though if Humanity as a whole had stepped in and helped the Navi it would have felt more like James Cameron was saying "we have a chance to become better" as apposed to "We are all such dicks."
The problem was that the unobtanium deposit was right under the home of a Na'vi tribe. In order to get to it, they would have to destroy the big tree which housed all those Na'vi. Do you really think the Na'vi would ever agree to get their home demolished?
I meant if humanity or a governing body had stepped in and stopped the RDA not the RDA policing themselves.

AndyFromMonday said:
Canid117 said:
Maybe we will get to see future marines versus future mega corporations if Cameron decides there needs to be an AVATAR II.
Cameron already said that if Avatar was successful a sequel would be underway. Worldwide, the film grossed an estimated $232,180,000 in its opening weekend with a budget of $237 million so it's pretty obvious an Avatar 2 is will be underway (Giving that this is barely the opening weekend and the movie's already almost surpassed its budget).
Lets hope the sequel is good

AndyFromMonday said:
Canid117 said:
Think of it, the evil corporation decides to re invade. The Navi are getting their asses kicked then BOOM climax as marines and army rangers (or a varied force of UN troops) drop down in Heinlein style power armor with rocket packs on their backs and triple mini guns strapped to their arms.
I think the sequel will be a very dark movie. Think about it, the corporation will probably attempt to re-invade Pandora and the Na'vi really are in no shape to challenge that invasion force. Not only that, but most marines will deem the Na'vi beasts. I mean, the people who rebelled against the corporation only did so because they actually spent time with the tribe and learned about their ways, something which that invasion force never did.
But I was thinking it would be cool if Government troops got in a fight with RDA troops. If the people can put enough pressure on the government then they will intervene.

AndyFromMonday said:
Canid117 said:
Or there could be a boycott of the companies products back on earth but that wouldn't be as climactic.
That really isn't a possibility. Why would anyone boycott a company which supplies them with a rare element that is extremely useful? This again hints that the sequel will have a very "dark" tone.
People boycott blood diamonds which are both a rare substance and are useful in making the girl you are dating bang you. If the press is bad enough then people will protest it. And what was the use of Unobtanium again? The most I have found out about is the RDA was trying to build a monorail system back on earth or something with it.


Sorry bout the crappy quote job but I don't spend much time on these forums
 

Internet Kraken

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Skarvig said:
StevieWonderMk2 said:
It sells for 20 mil a kilo. At the end they explain that the humans are going back to their dying planet. How much more do they need to spell it out?
They go back to their dying planet cause they lost their way to live with the planet.
I'm sorry if humans never had the ability to control fucking nature like the Na'vi can.
 

Simriel

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Internet Kraken said:
Skarvig said:
StevieWonderMk2 said:
It sells for 20 mil a kilo. At the end they explain that the humans are going back to their dying planet. How much more do they need to spell it out?
They go back to their dying planet cause they lost their way to live with the planet.
I'm sorry if humans never had the ability to control fucking nature like the Na'vi can.
Dude stop being a stubborn dick just because you didnt get/like the movie.
 

Internet Kraken

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Simriel said:
Internet Kraken said:
Skarvig said:
StevieWonderMk2 said:
It sells for 20 mil a kilo. At the end they explain that the humans are going back to their dying planet. How much more do they need to spell it out?
They go back to their dying planet cause they lost their way to live with the planet.
I'm sorry if humans never had the ability to control fucking nature like the Na'vi can.
Dude stop being a stubborn dick just because you didnt get/like the movie.

I get the movie. Considering how obvious every single message in the movie is it would be impossible not to get it. It's just that I think the message was delivered in a poor way. I suppose I am making the movie sound worse than it is. But still, the plot to this movie could have been much, much better.

And I'm not trying to be a stubborn dick. I just think it's unfair that this movie compares us to the Na'vi, a species that seems to be flawless in almost every single way.
 

Silva

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Honestly, it is a testament to the degeneration of human morality that people think that the protagonist in Avatar is anything less than a hero (though I agree he was rather thick and grunt-like until right at the end).

Apparently, these people think that it's alright to kill, maim and damage something that is sacred to other sentient being's cultures, in the name of getting some material goods. In fact, this makes them look all too similar to the humans who appeared in the movie, most of which were perfectly obvious villains out there for greed and for greed alone (and if they weren't malicious, they were ignorant and followed malicious orders, which has the same result).

It's not a betrayal to beat down the mercenary humans in the way it happened in this movie. It's not like the native forces killed innocent humans; just the combatants who were blowing their friends up. Meanwhile, think of what the humans did: they crushed those communicative plants used to listen to ancestors, they blew up the sacred tree, they burned much of the land in the fighting, and killed much of the animals the Na'vi used to hunt. Whatever the Na'vi did, simply does not compare to that. Put simply, like any harmful juggernaut, the human advance in this particular story had to be halted.

The whole point of the movie is that the "unobtainium" is just a valuable resource that can be sold for good money, and is not necessarily useful for anything. The weedy capitalist behind the whole operation is the connection we get to that fact, and to the dingy corporate world where profit is considered the only thing that matters.

Remember his key line about the GDP versus native life? That's a disgusting approach to life that he has, and it completely justifies fighting back, especially since it's not like they're compensating the natives - on their own land, what's more - for the material.

Bottom line: you can't go on to someone else's planet or land or any kind of property and destroy it just to "get it out of the way", and take any material that happens to have been found there. That doesn't pass for okay when we do that to other humans on Earth, and it shouldn't pass for okay with other intelligent beings either.

Internet Kraken said:
And I'm not trying to be a stubborn dick. I just think it's unfair that this movie compares us to the Na'vi, a species that seems to be flawless in almost every single way.
Umm, I find that strange, because the Na'vi're not flawless. They're based on the American Indians in many ways. The more you read into it, the more allegorical it gets. The culture, the hair, the dialogue they get, the customs, even the beliefs about the "Sky People"... they all bear similarities to the native reaction to settlers in America.

And many of those beliefs, at least concerning the invaders, and the peaceful approach taken towards them at first, could be considered naive, and naivety is one of the most damaging flaws one can identify in a culture.
 

Heathrow

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Canid117 said:
Heathrow said:
Not really a plot hole but.

I have to wonder why the humans didn't unplug Jake and Dr. Augustine during the fight over the Home-tree immediately after it became clear they weren't helping. Obviously Cameron wanted the characters to be there from a story perspective but it doesn't really make sense for Colonel Badass to not ring up the base have them removed from the avatar pods.
They did but the protagonists broke out and stole some of the Avatar controller units. Did you go to the bathroom when this happened? (Wouldn't be surprising with the runtime)
Not the second big fight when Jake hid the pods, I mean the first one where the dragon and some whirly birds just drop by to firebomb the Na'vi's tree.
 

Vrex360

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Mar 2, 2009
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Well the first one I think we have established isn't a plot hole as much as just a little bit of discontinued information.

As for the second well first the other guy had left ages ago but more then that, it was much more poetic that the female love interest saves the main hero because then they share a moment of understanding of each other and she finally sees him in his human form. I found that very sweet.

What? I'm a romantic... sue me.
 

FROGGEman2

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Demented Teddy said:
Plot holes?
One for me is the fact that a human betrayed his fellow human to help aliens.
I personally don't understand why he would do it.

Unobtainium must be a very valuable resource and must be being used to fuel humanity's growth if it's worth so much, if RDA was granted monopoly rights to mine for it and the fact that they are spending so much to get it.

So he isn't betraying RDA, he's betraying his race!
But, they don't have rights, not by the understanding of the Na'vi.

Anyway, these aren't holes, just not really fleshed out sub-plots.
 

Ghonzor

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MONSTERheart said:
Was there in actual part showing him picking up the gun and going out to keep fighting after his avatar had died? Because I don't remember that...
You see him running through the forest with a gun in hand.
 

bathlarper

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GoldenCondor said:
No, It's FernGully.
No its not Fern Gully. Fern Gully was crap and Avatar is watchable enough that I went back and saw it a second time. The only thing the two films share is their underlying message.

Avatar isn't really Dances With Wolves either. Its actually closer to Frank Huberts Dune saga.
Which brings up a strange point: Why are people bashing this film for being derivative? Seriously, its tough to find any truly original film, musical track or computer game these days.

Avatar is based on several very good films and one of the best Sci-Fi books ever written. Its directed by the man responsible for some of the best action films ever made and rendered in the most beautiful CGI ever commited to film.

To me this sounds more like an endorsement than a complaint.

Anyway, plot holes... Ummm can't think of any major ones. I don't see how those little spinning lizards ever evolved though. Their flight pattern makes them easier for predators to spot and kill and its established early on that Pandora is FULL of predators.
Also the 'Dragon' bomber would never fly but thats more of a technical irregularity and the film is jam packed with those.
 

scnj

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Godavari said:
What I don't understand is the whole deal with the big flying things. Supposedly, you "connect for life" with a certain one, but halfway through Jake ditches his for the big orange one.
Doesn't mean he's not still connected to the blue one. he just needed the big orange one to get the attention of all the clan leaders, because only 5 people had ever managed to ride one of them.
 

AndyFromMonday

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Canid117 said:
What about when you are breathing in lethal toxins too?
I'm guessing the air wasn't really toxic to humans, they simply said it was so because they couldn't breath it.

Canid117 said:
I meant if humanity or a governing body had stepped in and stopped the RDA not the RDA policing themselves.
This begs the question has to why a government would ever want to step in and stop the corporation. It's pretty obvious that unobtanium is needed back on Earth for the global monorail system, now why wouldn't the government want that?

The "citizens" of Earth would probably never rebel to actually stop an invasion force. They don't understand the natives and the corporation can simply say they were murderous beasts that don't deserve to live. Either way, that invasion force is no stopping.


Canid117 said:
But I was thinking it would be cool if Government troops got in a fight with RDA troops. If the people can put enough pressure on the government then they will intervene.
Ditto.

Canid117 said:
People boycott blood diamonds which are both a rare substance and are useful in making the girl you are dating bang you. If the press is bad enough then people will protest it. And what was the use of Unobtanium again? The most I have found out about is the RDA was trying to build a monorail system back on earth or something with it.
This is different. Unobtanium is needed for the monorail system. It's use goes beyond the "bling" aspect.

That's the thing, actually. The press has no idea how the Na'vi look like, what are their ways and how they're not murderous savages, the way the corporation will probably present them.

bathlarper said:
I don't see how those little spinning lizards ever evolved though. Their flight pattern makes them easier for predators to spot and kill and its established early on that Pandora is FULL of predators.
Wouldn't they look menacing to a predator? You saw how they only started flying if they were touched and how they immediately emanated bright colors. It's a deception game.
 

TotallyFake

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seanthesheep said:
DukeisClay said:
-snip-
Now a question of my own that's not quite a plot hole either. Why do the mech things need knives?
Mainly as a plot device, but logically it would be a good idea to have a bayonet because if the enemy creature (Na'vi or otherwise) gets very close, or the fight goes on until they run out of ammo, a knife on the end of your gun is more fun and less risky than punching them.

Fridge logic of my own: Why do all of the land creatures (I'm not sure about the flying creatures) have six limbs, and most have a tail, while the Na'vi only have four?
The flying birds are hexapods as well, 2 sets of wings + legs. And most breath through the side of their necks, like gills.

The reason the Na'Vi are humanoid are because people would get freaked out and not be able to emotionally connect to something too alien. You can test this: Open up Spore Creature Creator and muck around creating some monstrosity. As soon as you give it a face you can read it's emotions, until then, nothing.

I kinda wish Cameron had the balls to make them non-humanoid. Heck, a extra pair of arms would suffice, and neck-noses wouldn't look too alien.
 

big guy's wife

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One point about "betraying humans". This was not an army out to fight a war for their country. All soldiers were mercenary, hired by the corporation to clear the population, under what they were told would be through negotiations and diplomacy. The main character aligned as much with the scientists as with the native populations.
 

big guy's wife

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I could not understand the concept of time versus travel. At the beginning of the movie, weren't most of the travelers in deep sleep? How long did the journey take? I thought it was one of those "sleep for years" trips, but the head of the corporation says that they must clear the area to start mining because they had months to show a profit? Who would know on earth? How would these stockholders find out when they would mine? How soon could they get this "mined unobtainable unobtainium" back to earth? If it would take a hundred years to get the mineral back to earth, who would care? This is playing like a circle in my mind.......
 

bathlarper

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I think it says close to the beginning that it was a 6 year journey to Pandora and that the Avatars were grown during the trip with some sort of accelerated growth proccess.

Its still a good plot hole though well done for spotting it :)
 

1gremlyn1

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Still, its a 12 year round trip, so i wouldn't have thought that a couple of months would make much difference. Maybe they developed a way of transferring data faster than the spaceships can travel. Actually, that would also mean that there would be very little delay when the scientists were using the avatars.