I actually like in Colorado Springs; perhaps the most insane part of this relatively otherwise lovely state.Kakashi on crack said:
Police pepper spray 8 year old
- Thread starter Saucycarpdog
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They were dealing with an 8 year old, your bound to get in trouble no matter what you do. Besides having an adult who's not your parent hold you down seems much more traumatic than being sprayed with pepper sprayxPixelatedx said:
"Really? Using chemical weapons that cause torment is less of an assault then simply grabbing someone? If that was my kid I would be pissed they did what they did instead of simply stopping them. If it was so easy to sue police for assault, then police wouldn't be able to touch anyone."
...chemical weapons? It's pepper spray. I know people to whom it's a condiment.
Pepper spray is *temporarily* debilitating and, except for rare people with allergies, clears up without side effects and is treatable with water.
Speaking as a person who is trained and, unfortunately very experienced in handling violent people from youth to adults, I am *terrified* of restraining a child. The child *does not know* anything and will happily ruin their bodies just to get back at you.
With an adult or teen, you put them in a joint lock. They struggle, it hurts, they stop (usually) or you apply more pressure until it hurts enough that they stop.
8 year old? They will scream like you're raping them, and struggle until they put enough force into it to *break their own bones*. And guess what? Your fault. No one will hear a word about their precious little Timmy, you're the bad guy. Period.
I still have *teeth scars* from a 9 year old who, if I had not grabbed his jaw and forced his mouth open, would have *torn a chunk of my leg out*. The Paramedics and then doctor who treated me told me I was lucky not to have permanent damage.
Think anyone blamed the psycho little 9 year old? Nope. "You're a big guy you shoulda been able to handle him easy...but you were too rough...oh my God you bruised his poor little jaw..." Blah blah. Next time you handle him buddy. Please!
And *I* was stopping him after he broke a 4-year old's *arm* and started on the other one! I was lucky the parents of the little girl screamed bloody murder and thanked me for saving their child's life.
...chemical weapons? It's pepper spray. I know people to whom it's a condiment.
Pepper spray is *temporarily* debilitating and, except for rare people with allergies, clears up without side effects and is treatable with water.
Speaking as a person who is trained and, unfortunately very experienced in handling violent people from youth to adults, I am *terrified* of restraining a child. The child *does not know* anything and will happily ruin their bodies just to get back at you.
With an adult or teen, you put them in a joint lock. They struggle, it hurts, they stop (usually) or you apply more pressure until it hurts enough that they stop.
8 year old? They will scream like you're raping them, and struggle until they put enough force into it to *break their own bones*. And guess what? Your fault. No one will hear a word about their precious little Timmy, you're the bad guy. Period.
I still have *teeth scars* from a 9 year old who, if I had not grabbed his jaw and forced his mouth open, would have *torn a chunk of my leg out*. The Paramedics and then doctor who treated me told me I was lucky not to have permanent damage.
Think anyone blamed the psycho little 9 year old? Nope. "You're a big guy you shoulda been able to handle him easy...but you were too rough...oh my God you bruised his poor little jaw..." Blah blah. Next time you handle him buddy. Please!
And *I* was stopping him after he broke a 4-year old's *arm* and started on the other one! I was lucky the parents of the little girl screamed bloody murder and thanked me for saving their child's life.
I think the police were justified in pepperspraying him.
They could have just as easily beaten him into submission with nightsticks, slapped him in cuffs, or sent a K9 unit in after him, but no, they merely peppersprayed him.
The stuff is painful, yes, but it does no lasting damage to the recipient, so what's the big fuss about?
And for those who think he was no threat...what if he had taken the stick and made it sharp? What if he had found a knife? Would you think he was completely innocent due to his age then? If he was maybe...five, then yes, I'd be able to see the problem. But eight, he's perfectly in control of his actions and is able to understand that he is doing something wrong. Or at least, he should be able to by that age.
They could have just as easily beaten him into submission with nightsticks, slapped him in cuffs, or sent a K9 unit in after him, but no, they merely peppersprayed him.
The stuff is painful, yes, but it does no lasting damage to the recipient, so what's the big fuss about?
And for those who think he was no threat...what if he had taken the stick and made it sharp? What if he had found a knife? Would you think he was completely innocent due to his age then? If he was maybe...five, then yes, I'd be able to see the problem. But eight, he's perfectly in control of his actions and is able to understand that he is doing something wrong. Or at least, he should be able to by that age.
Man, if you gonna fuck with the cops then you can expect a face full off pepper spray. I mean that's better than a three man tackle or some judo move (maybe?) like you might have gotten before. There's less chance of broken bones or a shoot out or something else bad. No injuries no mess no fuss. Though I dont know at what point the average adult stopped being able to take a lightly armed eight year old and has to call the cops. But as a rule, if the cops are on the scene then light violence gunshot woulds and pepper spray/tear gas should really be expected.
When i first saw the title thread I was almost certain that this was going be a case of bad cops or horrible accident. After reading the article and watching the videos in the link......... This is totally justified. Police in general have this policy for threats. when they have the options and time to do so, generally try to use only enough force to meet and overcome any force used against them that will cause the least lasting damage. The police had been called twice before on this kid and had time to try to talk him down during this incident. While the police officers most likely could have physically restrained the kid quickly, there was a chance that either the kid could get hurt by the officers subduing him or the officers could have been injured by the random flailing of the stick the kid was holding. The pepper spray probably offered the best choice to the officers of subduing the kid because it would keep the officers out of range of the stick (most likely as i havent found any mention on just how big the stick was) and the kid would be completely fine again within a few hours at best, a day or so at worst, as opposed to the possible broken bones/torn ligaments/bruising cuased by a physicall take down. As for the possible allergic reactions, most schools that don't want to get sued for not having them have those Emergency alergic shock med pens and some police officers carry them as well. If they didnt then the police would have been able to radio for an ambulance immeadiately, if ther wasnt one already there or on the way to deal with any injuries this kid might have caused to himself or other people.
What I want to know is what do the officers involved think about this? Alot of people forget the Cops are people too with emotions too. Id imagine the cops were not wanting to do anything permenant to the kid even if he was in full on beserk rage. As for the teachers, while they may look like cowards running from an 8 year old, this was probably school policy that they did that so they wouldn't get sued. Enough people these days think lawsuits are the answer darn near everything and if you can make alot of money suing somebody that makes up for bad parenting.
What I want to know is what do the officers involved think about this? Alot of people forget the Cops are people too with emotions too. Id imagine the cops were not wanting to do anything permenant to the kid even if he was in full on beserk rage. As for the teachers, while they may look like cowards running from an 8 year old, this was probably school policy that they did that so they wouldn't get sued. Enough people these days think lawsuits are the answer darn near everything and if you can make alot of money suing somebody that makes up for bad parenting.
yeah... probably. this is probably why im not a police officer.Littlee300 said:
MY LITTLE BROTHER DOES THE SAME THING! he is slow too so its easy to get to him.
edit: fyi, it would have been in the knee. i'd much rather cripple the little bugger then kill him.
A child could EASILY kill someone with a sharpened object.flare09 said:
From another report: "Police found him with a foot-long piece of wood trim with a knife-like point in one hand and a cardboard box in the other."
He had a sharpened object that he had threatened teachers with and refused to put it down, so they pepper sprayed him. In this situation that is perfectly acceptable.
In all honesty I came onto this thread thinking I was going to be horrified by police brutality!
unbridgled rage, death threats, and the fact a good shower, and what? 3h gets rid of pepper spray? not a problem. by thew time your 8, if your gonna do something, you know what your doing, not "he's only a child" excuses, it's bullshit, they're smarter than given credit for.
Pepper spray caused no permanent damage, as a short term control method, I think it's reasonable
On another note, the kid is smart and well-spoken for his age. I respect him a lot for that
On another note, the kid is smart and well-spoken for his age. I respect him a lot for that
Reminds me of that South Park episode called Fingerbang - Mall cops pepperspraying children just for talking
Man, only in America.
How hard is it to wrestle a kid to the ground anyway.
Man, only in America.
How hard is it to wrestle a kid to the ground anyway.
^^^ Also this ^^^Rottweiler said:
Seriously, everyone claiming it was "excessive force" - how 'bout we just let the next psycho kid kill a few people? Because that's obviously a better solution than hitting him with a non-lethal, non-debilitating, temporary burst of pepper spray.
It's hard to know exactly without having been there, the kid did say he dropped the stick prior to being sprayed.
The two teachers where also not in immediate danger as they had moved to a separate room.
I think it might have been worth the effort to wait him out, he can't stay angry for ever. And they could always have just sprayed him if he actually started making progress on the door between him and the teachers or attempted to go the police.
I think it could have been handled better.
But then again Victorian police have shot(and killed) people in these kinds of situations, even when the person posed no immediate threat to anyone. So being sprayed isn't so bad, but it's still not an ideal solution to the problem.
The two teachers where also not in immediate danger as they had moved to a separate room.
I think it might have been worth the effort to wait him out, he can't stay angry for ever. And they could always have just sprayed him if he actually started making progress on the door between him and the teachers or attempted to go the police.
I think it could have been handled better.
But then again Victorian police have shot(and killed) people in these kinds of situations, even when the person posed no immediate threat to anyone. So being sprayed isn't so bad, but it's still not an ideal solution to the problem.
And if they started beating him she would be delighted... Wanna bet there'll be a lawsuit in a few weeks?
He tried to kill two people. Using pepper spray seems justified. The kid even said in the video 'I...kind of deserved it'.
Hey my name is Aidan as well!
Why is it I never hear someone with my name do anything good or cool?
Why is it I never hear someone with my name do anything good or cool?
Justified. The kid needs to learn somehow. The mother needs to step it up too. Talking to calm down the same kid multiple times is a waste of time and resources on the part of the police. They were probably getting tired of dealing with the same kid doing the same stupid things. People saying it was uncalled for are unaware of how much a theat anybody with a weapon can be.