[POLITICS] If Trump is Innocent, he should prove it

Schadrach

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Agema said:
The funny thing is, there's plenty of evidence the ACA has reduced healthcare costs in the USA compared to if it had not been enacted - it was full of provisions to cut waste in healthcare spending.
It certainly reduced my employer's health care costs. As the ACA went into effect we had 15-25% rate increases every year. They had to let a couple of people go late last year, which put them below the magic number and let them discontinue our health insurance entirely. Which means I'm now on the marketplace, which raised my insurance premium by another $50/month, after applying the estimated tax credit in full. For worse coverage.

On the upside, my fianc? starts her new job next week, and we're getting married around when her training is over. It's a state job, and public employee insurance for a couple is much less than what I'm paying for just me on the marketplace.
 

twistedmic

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tstorm823 said:
I think you do. I think if there were comparatively a rise in terrorist actions from unaffiliated Muslims who had not been in contact with organizations that actively seek to use them as a suicide attack it would be perfectly reasonable to step back and go "we don't know what this person was thinking, we're not going to blame this on anyone but the perpetrator without more evidence."
How do we know all of these Muslim Extremists were actually in contact with ISIS/ISIL/Taliban? Maybe these organizations merely take credit for the attack to make themselves appear more dangerous.

To my knowledge, there isn't a white-supremacist organization that is pushing people into terror attacks.
They view anyone that isn't straight and white as sub-human, little better (if at all) than animals. Many white supremacists want to kill all gays, Jews and non-whites. That alone is enough to encourage murderous terror attacks.

While it's certainly correct to condemn the ideology, blaming white supremacy for a school shooter that drew swastikas on the gun in not the same as blaming militant Islamists who directed the terrorist to act and then took credit.
Why not?
These groups are not boogeymen, there are 4 specific organizations that are responsible for the majority of terrorism globally. So far as I know, white supremacy lacks anything comparable, the closest you get are some prison gangs, and I'm not aware of any major terrorist attacks conducted by them.
And there are major, distinct white supremacist groups that are likely responsible for most of the white supremacist led attacks. The Aryan Brotherhood, The Aryan Nation and the Ku Klux Klan.

Ultimately, my point is that terrorism is terrorism because it's done with a purpose. Someone acting at the behest of ISIS is doing so to destroy the west and advance the goal of a single Islamic world government.

Even in a case as clear cut as neo-nazi attacks a synagogue, you can identify the ideology that led to the problem, but you don't know what the person was trying to accomplish.
They were trying to kill anyone who wasn't straight and white. That will always be the goal of white supremacists. They want anybody that is gay, Jewish or non-white dead.
 

generals3

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tstorm823 said:
generals3 said:
It's even crazier when you realize a spending of 20% of the premiums on profit is huge for an insurance companies. I know of (big) insurance companies that make much less on premiums because claims (+expenses) are close to premiums (with a big part of profits stemming from their investment portfolios).
The 20% remaining isn't all profit, they have to pay all their non healthcare expenses as well. The issue isn't the proportion, it's that the proportionality exists in the first place. It takes away the incentive to provide inexpensive treatments like generic drugs and incentivizes paying for things like brand name drugs deliberately so that they can legally increase premiums the next year.
I still have to ask what has to be included in the "80%". Because as far as reporting and follow up goes the only ratio used for such a regulation i can think of is the combined ratio. And a combined ratio of 80% would be a wet dream for big US non life insurers.

Now I must admit I don't know how it works in the US but over here it is the doctor who decides which medication is prescribed. There have been plenty of government campaigns to push them to presribe generics over brand name drugs. I would consider it quite weird for the insurer to be the one who decides which drug you should take for your treatment.

And on the other hand without limitations on the combined ratio insurers could theoretically demand ever higher premiums. And while competition could reduce the effectiveness of such tactics I was under the impression the healthcare insurance business is not as competitive as it could be due to stupid regulations? (And let's not forget that even with competition the customer can be fucked due to price fixing as is done by the pharma industry in the US. They deny it but when several pharma companies continuously increase the prices of the same drugs quasi in synch something fishy is clearly going on)

EDIT: And how would you feel about the government taking over the role of health insurer? They wouldn't gain from increasing premiums to increase their profits because premiums would be taxed and profits would be used not to tax more. And they wouldn't benefit from forcing people to take brand name drugs over generics as that would require them to increase taxes to subsidize big pharma (which would make the government unpopular). It would effectively allign the patient's interests with the insurer's interests. And that's without getting into how the government would have a much greater bargaining power than all those small individual insurers.
 

Silvanus

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tstorm823 said:
My favored solution is breaking out the ol' anti-trust laws and dissolving the cabal of middlemen that artificially maintain outrageously inflated prices. The current health care landscape has all the downsides of government healthcare (bureaucracy, inefficiency, unaccountability, and corruption) without any of the benefits, and I'd prefer to tear down the system of insurers and benefit managers who've been allowed to make decisions on your behalf but for the benefit of others. These people are supposed to have a fiduciary responsiblity to their clients, but are truly acting on behalf of their own monetary interest.
To clarify I understand your position: are you thinking of a system in which people do not require insurance, and in which the only direct relationship is between the individual and the (private, for-profit) healthcare provider?
 

Agema

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tstorm823 said:
Ultimately, my point is that terrorism is terrorism because it's done with a purpose. Someone acting at the behest of ISIS is doing so to destroy the west and advance the goal of a single Islamic world government. Even in a case as clear cut as neo-nazi attacks a synagogue, you can identify the ideology that led to the problem, but you don't know what the person was trying to accomplish.
Yes, we do know what they were trying to accomplish: cleansing "white" countries of what they regard as foreign racial and cultural pollution. The individual may be relatively muddled, but the same themes (such as fighting or kicking off a culture/race war that will result in destruction or expulsion of foreign-ness) go all the way through.

Many aren't that different from many Islamic terrorists. Lots of the ones killing in the West seem to have backhistories of crime and drug use, and they haven't met an ISIS recruiters. They're fucked up individuals who went further off the rails and self-radicalised via the internet. Sure, ISIS claims the kill, because that's ISIS PR[footnote]There's a 30-year old comedy fantasy novel by Tom Holt - I think it's "Expecting Someone Taller" - where there's some kind of explosion at an airport and half a dozen terrorist groups claim it was them - it's what terrorist groups have done for decades.[/footnote].

Thing is, rules of competition don't exist in this market. In many places, major healthcare providers have been allowed to buy out entire counties worth of doctors offices. 3 or 4 national chains control most of the entire retail drug industry. 3 pharmacy benefit managers own almost the entire market. Companies like CVS have vertical monopolies that manage every step from the doctor to the drug manufacturer to your personal pill bottle. The dodgy things you describe might be happening behind a thousand closed doors, but it's a largely coordinated effort. The web is woven so tightly, there's not competition, there's collusion.

A single manufacturer shouldn't be able to declare epipens massively more expensive on a whim. Insurers trying to act in their clients interests should reasonably say "look dude, we'd rather ask our patients to learn a different less expensive epinephrine injector than siphon thousands of dollars from them to you." That attempt was not made. Insurances paid specifically for epipens at price gouging levels. That's coordinated, and assuredly responsible for some amount of premium increase.
It seems obvious to me that pharmacy benefit managers are likely to be dodgy as hell. I understand the utility of a dedicated large corporation that can manage drug procurement and distribution where a host of smaller suppliers buying directly have far weaker economic leverage, but I suspect there's a great deal of inefficiency mixed in there too as the pharmacy benefit managers look to maximise their profits. However, there's no guarantee that insurers actually have the power to break this system: that pharmacy benefit managers have expanded their operations so pervasively and successfully in the first place suggests that's where the leverage currently is. Collusion may occur, but I don't think there needs to be any collusion at all: just a pattern of where economic power lies, deals and profit motive is quite enough to create sub-optimal outcomes for the end user.

In the case of your epipens, what's possibly going on is that they sign a package deal gets certain drugs (I don't know modafinil, citalopram, whatever) at a massive discount, but at the cost of also accepting other products at higher price. Overall, the cost is potentially lower for the insurance company and customers as a whole, but that some individuals really get it in the neck if they're unlucky enough to be on non-discounted medication. As for manufacturers massively increasing the price at a whim, they totally have that right under free market principles. As we know, this causes a great deal of unhappiness (consider the recent daraprim affair), but if they can they may as well do.

The UK I suppose has a de facto pharmacy benefit manager, except that it's an arm of the entire national health service. One might argue it's a monopsony, but it's absolutely amazing at getting drug prices down. When the USA is discussing trade deals with the UK and opening up the NHS, a lot of what they mean is breaking this system so Britons pay more for drugs, to the benefit of... well, not the British people, that's for sure.

If you want to break these sorts of problem, as the free market seems incapable of doing so, it seems you would need government to step in. But then you need a party willing to seriously interfere in business, which is to say not the Republicans.

* * *

Schadrach said:
It certainly reduced my employer's health care costs. As the ACA went into effect we had 15-25% rate increases every year. They had to let a couple of people go late last year, which put them below the magic number and let them discontinue our health insurance entirely. Which means I'm now on the marketplace, which raised my insurance premium by another $50/month, after applying the estimated tax credit in full. For worse coverage.

On the upside, my fianc? starts her new job next week, and we're getting married around when her training is over. It's a state job, and public employee insurance for a couple is much less than what I'm paying for just me on the marketplace.
Sorry to hear that - but unfortunately some people get the dirty end of the stick in the great big merry-go-round of life. Some people get a tax increase, for which others get a useful bus service.

I don't think anyone believes the ACA is perfect, but on a gross utlitarian measure it's better than its predecessor.
 

Schadrach

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generals3 said:
Now I must admit I don't know how it works in the US but over here it is the doctor who decides which medication is prescribed. There have been plenty of government campaigns to push them to presribe generics over brand name drugs. I would consider it quite weird for the insurer to be the one who decides which drug you should take for your treatment.
The doctor decides what is prescribed over here too, and some states (like mine) have additional laws that require pharmacists to fill with an identical but cheaper generic if one exists unless specifically ordered otherwise.

The thing is, the insurance decides what it's willing to pay for, which means a whole hell of a lot.

For example, my marketplace plan has a different formulary than my previous plan did. I'm currently on two drugs, and they're both "keep taking these or you'll die in a horrible fashion in a few short months" kind of drugs. There are several drugs in that general class, and for the two specifically I'm on one of them has two brands of the same drug (though with different delivery methods), and the other has a functionally very similar but chemically slightly different drug. I had to get my doctor to switch both of them to the other option this year, because my marketplace plan offers those two on $50 copays each for a month supply, but provides no coverage at all for the two I was on before.

So while my doctor could just continue to prescribe the same drugs I was on, the insurance would have offered no coverage for them at all. Which means that functionally, the insurance really has the deciding voice in what I'm taking.

EDIT: I HATE AUTOCORRECT!
 

Schadrach

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Agema said:
Sorry to hear that - but unfortunately some people get the dirty end of the stick in the great big merry-go-round of life. Some people get a tax increase, for which others get a useful bus service.
Thing is, my situation is far from unique. Large rate increases each year for employer health insurance programs as the ACA rolled out are not exactly rare. The largest employers can absorb much of that, but smaller ones generally can't - I was paying less than $90/mo pre-ACA and more than that per paycheck last year.

The same kind of thing is why I oppose the whole $15 federal minimum wage thing - cost of living varies *wildly* from place to place. It makes more sense to adjust the minimum range regionally, either statewide or even municipally to take that into account. While $15/h could barely get you a cardboard box in one of the shittier allies in San Fran, people making $15/h here can afford to buy a house, so long as they don't shoot for anything crazy (I bought a 1400 sq ft single story 3 bed/2 bath on a flat lot not in the floodplain and less than 10 min outside Charleston last year for ~90k).

Agema said:
I don't think anyone believes the ACA is perfect, but on a gross utlitarian measure it's better than its predecessor.
It's exactly what you'd expect from a healthcare reform that wants to make sure the health *insurance* industry is well taken care of, in exchange for not letting them refuse paying customers just for needing the product being sold.
 

Eacaraxe_v1legacy

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Schadrach said:
The same kind of thing is why I oppose the whole $15 federal minimum wage thing - cost of living varies *wildly* from place to place.
I support the $15/hour federal minimum wage, but it must be backed up by targeted subsidies and tax breaks for small employers (actual small employers, not major employers claiming to be small businesses via accounting conjury), strict housing market regulation, and large-scale infrastructure spending for less-developed regions. And honestly, a national health care system, and transition to progressive payroll taxation, would be an excellent first step towards developing that economic landscape.
 

CaitSeith

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Saelune said:
Trump Honors D-Day Veterans:
Jeez! It's like an Internet Troll giving a press conference. Where the heck are the mods!?
 

Agema

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Schadrach said:
It's exactly what you'd expect from a healthcare reform that wants to make sure the health *insurance* industry is well taken care of, in exchange for not letting them refuse paying customers just for needing the product being sold.
Yeah well. That's what happens in a country that believes in the rights of businesses to make profit anywhere and everywhere more than it does the right for people to have healthcare and a political system that promotes obstruction.

Don't worry though: the Republicans are well on their way to breaking the ACA (through the courts, of course, because it's already sufficiently appreciated that they don't dare take the political hit by legislating against it). They'll talk loud about a new healthcare system for 2020 when the idea's fresh in everyone's mind, which will of course be dropped or lost in the usual legislative hell by 2024, and it'll be another few decades of fruitless gridlock. Back in the pre-ACA world, you might well get a better employer scheme. Millions of Americans will go back to no healthcare coverage, but that's what they deserve for being poor.
 

TheIronRuler

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undeadsuitor said:
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Yeah. I have no idea why gay and trans people, when choosing political parties, choose the party that accepts them instead of the one that wants to sent them to reeducation camps.

I mean hello

Camps are fun
.
You can be a right-wing liberal (I think this is just libertarians in the US). You can have right-wing ideas and believe in liberty which means that every person is entitled to live as they wish as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others (and no, your feelings or religious believes getting hurt doesn't count). That's my ideological niche.
 

Silvanus

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TheIronRuler said:
You can be a right-wing liberal (I think this is just libertarians in the US). You can have right-wing ideas and believe in liberty which means that every person is entitled to live as they wish as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others (and no, your feelings or religious believes getting hurt doesn't count). That's my ideological niche.
Of course you can. But "believing that every person is entitled to live as they wish as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others" is so broad as to be nebulous without definition.

"Live as they wish"... within what parameters?

"As long as it doesn't infringe on which rights, defined how"?
 

Saelune

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TheIronRuler said:
undeadsuitor said:
.

Yeah. I have no idea why gay and trans people, when choosing political parties, choose the party that accepts them instead of the one that wants to sent them to reeducation camps.

I mean hello

Camps are fun
.
You can be a right-wing liberal (I think this is just libertarians in the US). You can have right-wing ideas and believe in liberty which means that every person is entitled to live as they wish as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others (and no, your feelings or religious believes getting hurt doesn't count). That's my ideological niche.
If you vote for people who are against LGBT rights, you are against LGBT rights.
 

CaitSeith

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Silvanus said:
TheIronRuler said:
You can be a right-wing liberal (I think this is just libertarians in the US). You can have right-wing ideas and believe in liberty which means that every person is entitled to live as they wish as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others (and no, your feelings or religious believes getting hurt doesn't count). That's my ideological niche.
Of-fucking-course you can. But "believing that every person is entitled to live as they wish as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others" is so nebulously broad as to be pointless without definition.

"Live as they wish"... within what parameters?

"As long as it doesn't infringe on which rights, defined how"?
Not to mention one can spin any concern as "feelings" so easily that the definition of rights are pretty much on wheels. Also, what's the reaction when a right is officially removed? Does it then become ok to trample in what used to be others' right?
 

TheIronRuler

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undeadsuitor said:
TheIronRuler said:
undeadsuitor said:
.

Yeah. I have no idea why gay and trans people, when choosing political parties, choose the party that accepts them instead of the one that wants to sent them to reeducation camps.

I mean hello

Camps are fun
.
You can be a right-wing liberal (I think this is just libertarians in the US). You can have right-wing ideas and believe in liberty which means that every person is entitled to live as they wish as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others (and no, your feelings or religious believes getting hurt doesn't count). That's my ideological niche.
Except that "libertarians" voting republican just helps the social conservative republicans infringe the rights of others, no matter how much you "dont care"
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In this case I agree. It's a hard decision in the US, as I understand, since there are two major parties to choose from. However I do think that there is a spectrum on those parties, and you can vote for individuals which you agree with, or vote against those you disagree with... I'm not from that kind of system, I vote for whoever I most agree with, not for whoever is the least shitty. I dislike being somehow chained to a certain party because of who you are, and not what you believe in. 'Vote democrat because you're Jewish', not because you believe in their values, etc.
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Silvanus said:
TheIronRuler said:
You can be a right-wing liberal (I think this is just libertarians in the US). You can have right-wing ideas and believe in liberty which means that every person is entitled to live as they wish as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others (and no, your feelings or religious believes getting hurt doesn't count). That's my ideological niche.
Of-fucking-course you can. But "believing that every person is entitled to live as they wish as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others" is so nebulously broad as to be pointless without definition.

"Live as they wish"... within what parameters?

"As long as it doesn't infringe on which rights, defined how"?
.
It isn't broad, it's very precise. This is my creed, I know it well.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Saelune said:
TheIronRuler said:
undeadsuitor said:
.

Yeah. I have no idea why gay and trans people, when choosing political parties, choose the party that accepts them instead of the one that wants to sent them to reeducation camps.

I mean hello

Camps are fun
.
You can be a right-wing liberal (I think this is just libertarians in the US). You can have right-wing ideas and believe in liberty which means that every person is entitled to live as they wish as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others (and no, your feelings or religious believes getting hurt doesn't count). That's my ideological niche.
If you vote for people who are against LGBT rights, you are against LGBT rights.
Not necessarily. You can be pro-lgbt rights, but find them to be less important than other issues.

Say you're pro-lgbt, but also pro-life. I'm sure in that case you'll vote for whoever is the pro-life candidate, since the right to be alive probably trumps the right to get married or use a specific bathroom.

If you're in the middle in our political system and neither of the 2 political parties fully represent your ideals you're forced to choose which of your ideals are more important. Lgbt issues affect a much smaller population of people than issues with the economy, infrastructure, gun rights, abortion, healthcare, the environment, etc.

Just because someone is voting in favor of a candidate who is against lgbt rights it doesn't mean that they themselves are against lgbt rights, it can just mean that there are other rights that are more important to them. You are an lgbt person, so of course lgbt rights are really important to you, but they are also rights that don't affect the majority of the population.