[Politics] "Pregnant Woman Indicted For Baby's Death After Being Shot"
- Thread starter Cicada 5
- Start date
You mentioned Saelune. "punch a Nazi" is the contentious phrase she often refers to that people actually take issue with, referring to several instances where nazis were attacked preemptively rather than in self defense.CaitSeith said:
Just saying "They're literal Nazis!" doesn't tell me anything about the context of the actual situation involved. Both you and her just say the word Nazi and assume that automatically means everyone is in immediate threat of harm. People need to actually be clear and precise about what they're trying to argue here.
"Your defending Nazi's" is quickly becoming code for "I haven't actually been trying to pay attention to what you're saying".
What's your definition of having safety violated? In America, that can range from being stabbed to someone not liking your music and using that to justify slitting your throat.Shadowstar38 said:
I think you've just summed up Saelune's overarching point for the last few years.Shadowstar38 said:
Glad to know we can always find common ground once we get down to it.
So we're actually at this point. Alright. So is it very specifically Nazis you want punched? What about Fascists in general? At what point does the cutoff happen? Where do you go from Punching to Peaceful Coexistence?Saelune said:
Leg End said:
(Source [https://mjhnyc.org/exhibitions/nazi-persecution-homosexuals-1933-1945/])
A Nazi, who believe in Nazi ideals, would try to (at best) remove Saelune from the nation. At worst... or possibly, in the more common, a Nazi would attempt more lethal ways of dealing with Saelune.
[/Digital Knock on Wood because I don't want that to happen to someone I respect... or anyone]
A Communist, at best, would welcome Saelune with open arms. At worst, Saelune wouldn't be able to join the party.
When there's an actual tenet to a belief system that actively threatens someone's life, you can see why they would be against it, right?
Yes. That is a thing that happened.Saelune said:
My personal definition, physical contact. To be more specific, a situation where someone's already being aggressive, or declared intent to, and proceeds to invade my person space despite a verbal warning.Smithnikov said:
This isn't how its stated in the law mind you, just where my personal limits are.
What?Saelune said:
All you did was post a link to a wiki. What other response did you want from me?
Who strictly believes in them? Most likely the lethal removal.ObsidianJones said:
No one would. Hell, I wouldn't want it to happen to people I don't respect either. People can suck, but there's a line I imagine most people don't tend to cross in regards to respecting life and how it applies to even dickheads. Of course, then you apply that to the people that would commit those kinds of atrocities with no remorse, and then we all probably start to dim the lights a little bit on how much we'd care if they experienced the same.
Well, I don't exactly know Saelune's entire being, but I'd say there's a fair chance it'd come in with imprisonment or 'correction' in certain regimes. Issue is, you tend to get a lot of people saying 'Communism', and the they turn into authoritarian shitholes, which tends to get associated with Communism. Pure Marxism, I don't think I have much of an issue with as long as subscribers do it in their own corner and leave me out of it. But back to the association aspect, you tend to have groups like Antifa throwing around various Communist slogans and images, along with genuine hammers and sickles, which then associates those views specifically with their violence against 'Nazis'. That's a key problem here, that the group initiates force against people that fall into their rather broad view of targets.
Who wouldn't be able to? It's an understandable thing. My core issue is the initiation of force and the acceptance of using force to combat speech. For someone saying that guns themselves are violence, she has quite the penchant for violence being inflicted upon people.
...That... Nevermind.Saelune said:
Then why should we tolerate their existence?Shadowstar38 said:
There is no such thing as a 'Good Nazi'. Nor is Nazi a thing you have no choice in being. A person chooses to believe in that ideology, to condone and support and desire those views. There is no place in a good world for such people. Now, sure, I would prefer they just come to reason. I am willing to condone ex-Nazis, but they are few and far between. Being a Nazi is not the same as being a Communist, or Capitalist, or even Republican. To be a Nazi is to want to kill all people that goes against the ideal Aryan. To be a Nazi is to inherently be a threat to every person of Jewish descent or faith, every non-white person, every LGBT person, every person even mildly 'off'.
Look, I get it, we both exhange barbs and insults, we argue and fight and insinuate, but please, right now, in this post I am sincerely hoping you can understand me here, and that atleast for this moment, I am putting faith in that you genuinly are a good person who wants good to prevail, who doesnt have any desire to condone or support bigotry, please see and understand the problem here, why I am so vehement in my condemnation of Nazis and those who find Nazis philosophically appealing, that it is not the same to condemn Nazis as it is to condemn ethnicities, sexualities, or genders, nor is it even the same as condemning faiths or more reasonable poltiical parties or economic philosophies. Nazis, more than any group in modern history deserve nothing but absolute destruction, not because they 'just have a difference of opinion', but because their very existance is a threat to the very concept of Good. And this purge need not be utterly violent. Every Nazi turned away from that hateful ideology, turned ex, is also a Nazi purged from this world, but while ideal, that is unrealistic.
We need to make it beyond question that Nazism is unnaceptable, no exceptions. And I worry, genuinly worry, that you and others really dont understand or appreciate that.
I dont know if this will convince you, I know it can be hard for people to truly change what they believe, or their very perception of the world. I would not even think it possible if not for my own change. I know most just see me as an extreme left-winger, but I think most people forget that I used to identify as a 'centrist', albeit a left-leaning one, but still, I complained of the hypocrisy of blacks being racist against whites, of women being sexist against men, and similar issues. And yeah, I still think those are wrong, but I no longer am blinded to the unevenness of bigotry. It is a nice sentiment on paper, but it ignores the context of our real world. Nazis are not the 'evil trope' punching bag they once were, they have gained real and genuine power and influence on the world, on the US government, and I am seriously scared for my life and the lives of those threatened by this pure Evil ideology. I once could not imagine how Nazi Germany could have ever even happened in the first place, but now, now I am seeing it happen again with my own eyes, I am seeing Nazi ideology rise in popularity, and people defend it, and people give it the opportunity to grow, thrive and flourish. Even if you truly mean well with your defence of Nazis, and yes, I do really see it as a defense of them, if coming from a place intending good, it WILL have the opposite effect.
Sorry if this got a bit rambly. I really do hope you can come to understand me better now though, and I really hope to bring us both to a better place, but if you still dont understand me after this, then I guess I have nothing left to say to you, cause I am running out of words and hope.