[POLITICS] Two Mass Shootings in 15 Hours, and O'Rourke on Trump

[Marik2]

Crazy people shouldnt have guns, its not that hard to understand.

So they're 'Crazy' for arms being involved in religious ceremony. Alright. What do you think of Sikhs and the Kirpan?

They are crazy for literally worshipping gun.

Crazy people shouldnt have guns, its not that hard to understand.

The question is, of course, what objective measure you have of a person's mental state and whether or not they are "crazy" as you put it.

*points at picture* That is crazy yall. You wouldnt disagree if it wasnt about guns.

Considering you are proposing taking away a person's constitutional rights (the right to own firearms) on the basis of how they dress and what religion they engage in (as weird as we might find it) then yes, you're going to get quite a bit of push back. Just because people have a kooky religion (protected by the First Amendment, by the by) doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to own firearms.

I honestly think that you would unironically join that gun church and be their gun pope.

Well, the San Francisco Board of Supervisors just passed a resolution calling the NRA a terrorist group. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/09/04/san-francisco-just-passed-resolution-calling-nra-domestic-terrorist-organization/]

The interesting part of this resolution is as follows:

It also said that the city would assess its financial and contractual relationships with vendors that do business with the NRA.

?The City and County of San Francisco should take every reasonable step to limit those entities who do business with the City and County of San Francisco from doing business with this domestic terrorist organization,? it noted.

If this actually turns into something rather than being simple bluster, then it would be interesting to see the federal courts take a look at this.

Heres a good video on the shady things the NRA does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCJJI6M77pA

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

I honestly think that you would unironically join that gun church and be their gun pope.

I'm actually currently quite happy with my current religious choice of Roman Catholicism.

Heres a good video on the shady things the NRA does

Shady? Maybe. Terrorist? Nah.

These same people would be upset if it was Muslims and guns. The Republican Party has never been pro-Religious freedom, it is a lie to defend Christian supremacy

Who are "these same people?" Am I counted among them? Because I can tell you quite honestly that I am happy that Muslims are buying firearms and exercising their rights under the Second Amendment.

 

[Saelune]

They are crazy for literally worshipping gun.

So you didn't even read the article? At no point is there worship of arms here. And again you don't answer my question, this time about Sikhs.

*points at picture* That is crazy yall.

You don't see the irony in saying that?

They are, most gun nuts are worshippers of guns, and it is disturbing.

I did not answer that question because it was just you attempting to divert the conversation into fallacy territory as an attempt to discredit me via strawman.

You have made your own views on guns extremely clear, and they are basically the complete opposite of my own. I think your views on gun ownership, especially as it relates to other views (such as citizenship) is bad.

 

[Saelune]

I honestly think that you would unironically join that gun church and be their gun pope.

I'm actually currently quite happy with my current religious choice of Roman Catholicism.

Heres a good video on the shady things the NRA does

Shady? Maybe. Terrorist? Nah.

These same people would be upset if it was Muslims and guns. The Republican Party has never been pro-Religious freedom, it is a lie to defend Christian supremacy

Who are "these same people?" Am I counted among them? Because I can tell you quite honestly that I am happy that Muslims are buying firearms and exercising their rights under the Second Amendment.

Trump certainly does not want Muslims having guns, unless they are buying those guns from him anyways.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Climate scientists are now communists?

You're suggesting that climate scientists, as a group, believe capitalism is destined to implode? And people questioned why I think you're always just talking about communism.

Climate scientists are rather more dire than that, actually.

 

[Leg End]

They are, most gun nuts are worshippers of guns, and it is disturbing.

You know that worshipping anything or anyone other than God kinda goes against the whole thing, right?

I did not answer that question because it was just you attempting to divert the conversation into fallacy territory as an attempt to discredit me via strawman.

Or I'm pointing out a similarity and that it is not gun worship, but possession of the arm is related to the belief. A component. Pretty sure you'd actually agree with the Sikhs at least.

 

[Kwak]

Climate scientists are now communists?

You're suggesting that climate scientists, as a group, believe capitalism is destined to implode? And people questioned why I think you're always just talking about communism.

Capitalism does not equal economics, which is a much more universal human drive which will always express itself in some form. Capitalism is just one flavour of that, and taking it for granted it is an eternal unshakeable presence inseparable from any human society seems a little naive.

ETA... Climate scientists have insight into the cause/effect disruption of basic accepted climate patterns that have been with us all of recorded history. The knock-on effect of these is pretty much guaranteed to disrupt the established systems which capitalism currently relies on. It's honestly not that big a stretch to see capitalism, as it is currently practised, to be completely unviable in 100 years.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

They are, most gun nuts are worshippers of guns, and it is disturbing.

You know that worshipping anything or anyone other than God kinda goes against the whole thing, right?

I did not answer that question because it was just you attempting to divert the conversation into fallacy territory as an attempt to discredit me via strawman.

Or I'm pointing out a similarity and that it is not gun worship, but possession of the arm is related to the belief. A component. Pretty sure you'd actually agree with the Sikhs at least.

No, they are not related because knives existed at the time their religion was created, guns did not. The bible does not refer to guns and they have to do some serious mental gymnastics to interpret it as such since guns were never a thing at the time the Bible was written. Sort of like those racist idiots who claim that interracial marriage is against their Christian beliefs when Moses was married to a Black woman and God punished his sister for disagreeing with his interracial marriage. The people using guns and bullet crowns as "part of their religion" are no more supporting Christian beliefs than this woman refusing to wed an interracial couple. That is a cult, not Christians and neither of these absurd beliefs are recognized by the major sects of Christianity.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/mississippi-venue-apparently-denied-interracial-couples-wedding-christian/story?id=65356377
Both are wrong and denounced by religious leaders for good reason. As for the gun church, they are considered a cult and have a history of illegal activity that lead to the imprisonment of the founder and the family pretty much uses a "church" ( if you can even call it that at this point) to sell guns for profit.

https://www.vox.com/2018/3/1/17067894/church-bullet-crowns-ar15-world-peace-unification-sanctuary-moonies-moon

 

[tstorm823]

Capitalism does not equal economics, which is a much more universal human drive which will always express itself in some form. Capitalism is just one flavour of that, and taking it for granted it is an eternal unshakeable presence inseparable from any human society seems a little naive.

ETA... Climate scientists have insight into the cause/effect disruption of basic accepted climate patterns that have been with us all of recorded history. The knock-on effect of these is pretty much guaranteed to disrupt the established systems which capitalism currently relies on. It's honestly not that big a stretch to see capitalism, as it is currently practised, to be completely unviable in 100 years.

Yeah, but what you're saying is reasonable. Although I think misguided, capitalism is, to date, the best system ever conceived by man to achieve maximum prosperity with limited resources. If something disrupts capitalism, its less likely to be economic collapse than it is to be the opposite, where we delimit resources or no longer desire greater prosperity. Which is sort of how Marx envisioned communism in the first place, he saw the effects of industry and thought "we're probably only a couple years away from having enough stuff, now we just need to distribute it all fairly" and if it wasn't for small details like food, he might have had a point. But I digress.

Saying that the earth's changing climate may possibly be the impetus that transforms our economic systems is a reasonable outlook. But it's a very different viewpoint than someone who thinks that climate change will dictate the abolition of private property because the imaginary climate scientists say so.

 

[Saelune]

They are, most gun nuts are worshippers of guns, and it is disturbing.

You know that worshipping anything or anyone other than God kinda goes against the whole thing, right?

Yes, I am well aware of the hypocrisy of many Christians.

 

[CaitSeith]

Well, the San Francisco Board of Supervisors just passed a resolution calling the NRA a terrorist group. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/09/04/san-francisco-just-passed-resolution-calling-nra-domestic-terrorist-organization/]

The interesting part of this resolution is as follows:

It also said that the city would assess its financial and contractual relationships with vendors that do business with the NRA.

?The City and County of San Francisco should take every reasonable step to limit those entities who do business with the City and County of San Francisco from doing business with this domestic terrorist organization,? it noted.

If this actually turns into something rather than being simple bluster, then it would be interesting to see the federal courts take a look at this.

Heres a good video on the shady things the NRA does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCJJI6M77pA

No wonder the NRA members act so screwed up when they bombard themselves with brain-rotting propaganda for decades.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

I honestly think that you would unironically join that gun church and be their gun pope.

I'm actually currently quite happy with my current religious choice of Roman Catholicism.

Heres a good video on the shady things the NRA does

Shady? Maybe. Terrorist? Nah.

These same people would be upset if it was Muslims and guns. The Republican Party has never been pro-Religious freedom, it is a lie to defend Christian supremacy

Who are "these same people?" Am I counted among them? Because I can tell you quite honestly that I am happy that Muslims are buying firearms and exercising their rights under the Second Amendment.

Trump certainly does not want Muslims having guns, unless they are buying those guns from him anyways.

I don't think Trump sells firearms. And I'm also surprised that Trump is now part of "the same people" group which has been vaguely defined by you.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Capitalism does not equal economics, which is a much more universal human drive which will always express itself in some form. Capitalism is just one flavour of that, and taking it for granted it is an eternal unshakeable presence inseparable from any human society seems a little naive.

ETA... Climate scientists have insight into the cause/effect disruption of basic accepted climate patterns that have been with us all of recorded history. The knock-on effect of these is pretty much guaranteed to disrupt the established systems which capitalism currently relies on. It's honestly not that big a stretch to see capitalism, as it is currently practised, to be completely unviable in 100 years.

Yeah, but what you're saying is reasonable. Although I think misguided, capitalism is, to date, the best system ever conceived by man to achieve maximum prosperity with limited resources.

Mm, yes, you must be thinking of Chinese state capitalism.

If something disrupts capitalism, its less likely to be economic collapse than it is to be the opposite, where we delimit resources or no longer desire greater prosperity. Which is sort of how Marx envisioned communism in the first place, he saw the effects of industry and thought "we're probably only a couple years away from having enough stuff, now we just need to distribute it all fairly" and if it wasn't for small details like food, he might have had a point. But I digress.

It's pretty clear you or whoever you're echoing hasn't done the reading on this.

Saying that the earth's changing climate may possibly be the impetus that transforms our economic systems is a reasonable outlook. But it's a very different viewpoint than someone who thinks that climate change will dictate the abolition of private property because the imaginary climate scientists say so.

That's not what 'collapse' means. Abolishing private ownership of the means of production is (part of) one way to possibly pick up the pieces, though.

 

[Saelune]

I honestly think that you would unironically join that gun church and be their gun pope.

I'm actually currently quite happy with my current religious choice of Roman Catholicism.

Heres a good video on the shady things the NRA does

Shady? Maybe. Terrorist? Nah.

These same people would be upset if it was Muslims and guns. The Republican Party has never been pro-Religious freedom, it is a lie to defend Christian supremacy

Who are "these same people?" Am I counted among them? Because I can tell you quite honestly that I am happy that Muslims are buying firearms and exercising their rights under the Second Amendment.

Trump certainly does not want Muslims having guns, unless they are buying those guns from him anyways.

I don't think Trump sells firearms. And I'm also surprised that Trump is now part of "the same people" group which has been vaguely defined by you.

Saudi Arm deals for American weapons.

And no, you arent surprised that I consider right-wingers to be right-wingers. I am just using what you right-wingers give me. Right-wingers defined themselves and I am going along with it. If you dont want me to associate unrestricted gun ownership with right-wingers, then stop making that one of your top platforms.

 

[Leg End]

No, they are not related because knives existed at the time their religion was created, guns did not. The bible does not refer to guns and they have to do some serious mental gymnastics to interpret it as such since guns were never a thing at the time the Bible was written.

A lot of religious institutions in one way or another have modernized. They see a rod as now being rifles, that's their thing. Good example of the first and second amendments being used in conjunction.

As for the gun church, they are considered a cult and have a history of illegal activity that lead to the imprisonment of the founder and the family pretty much uses a "church" ( if you can even call it that at this point) to sell guns for profit.

https://www.vox.com/2018/3/1/17067894/church-bullet-crowns-ar15-world-peace-unification-sanctuary-moonies-moon

Tax evasion and gun running. This is sounding like an ancap church.

Yes, I am well aware of the hypocrisy of many Christians.

So you're completely ignoring the fact that they're not worshipping the guns.

 

[tstorm823]

It's pretty clear you or whoever you're echoing hasn't done the reading on this.

So you say, but I've had to do a whole bunch of educating in this thread, including to you. And when I'm trying to explain the difference between reform and revolution, you link me a piece that tells you what I'm saying, I can't help but think you haven't read even your own positions.

 

[Saelune]

No, they are not related because knives existed at the time their religion was created, guns did not. The bible does not refer to guns and they have to do some serious mental gymnastics to interpret it as such since guns were never a thing at the time the Bible was written.

A lot of religious institutions in one way or another have modernized. They see a rod as now being rifles, that's their thing. Good example of the first and second amendments being used in conjunction.

As for the gun church, they are considered a cult and have a history of illegal activity that lead to the imprisonment of the founder and the family pretty much uses a "church" ( if you can even call it that at this point) to sell guns for profit.

https://www.vox.com/2018/3/1/17067894/church-bullet-crowns-ar15-world-peace-unification-sanctuary-moonies-moon

Tax evasion and gun running. This is sounding like an ancap church.

Yes, I am well aware of the hypocrisy of many Christians.

So you're completely ignoring the fact that they're not worshipping the guns.

Idolizing guns IS worshipping them. People who value guns more than human lives worship guns. People who dress in pink gowns, wear crowns and each have their own gun are worshipping guns.

 

[Seanchaidh]

It's pretty clear you or whoever you're echoing hasn't done the reading on this.

So you say, but I've had to do a whole bunch of educating in this thread, including to you.

You've been pretending to do such, anyway.

And when I'm trying to explain the difference between reform and revolution, you link me a piece that tells you what I'm saying, I can't help but think you haven't read even your own positions.

Except that it didn't at all and your responses to the objections completely undermined your analysis.

 

[tstorm823]

Except that it didn't at all and your responses to the objections completely undermined your analysis.

If there were any actual faults in what I've said, you'd be pointing it out instead of distracting with climate change.

 

[Leg End]

Idolizing guns IS worshipping them.

Ooooooor they're using arms and iconography of the era. Would you be saying these same things if they were swords?

People who dress in pink gowns, wear crowns and each have their own gun are worshipping guns.

People who dress in armor, wear helmets, and each have their own sword are worshiping swords.