[Politics] Yang Gang 2020
- Thread starter Marik2
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Unless I missed something, I don't see anything on that page in relation to that, and his support looks pretty minimal. I can however see it in regards to...Marik2 said:
Which makes enough sense, and I personally do give him points for even mentioning Automation. The issue is that the rest of his policies reeeaaalllly don't favor Libertarianism(and even his take with Automation is a long discussion). I will say though that from my perspective, I can sit and talk with the man, even if I disagree with him on... most points, probably. Or rather, his solutions to problems. I don't think I could last five minutes in a room with anyone besides him or Bernie.Saelune said:
Personally, I prefer Chairman Sheng-ji Yang. (Foreman Domai, of course, is better than both.)
UBI is a good thing, but Yang has for whatever reason decided that various existing programs should depend on not accepting it-- which makes it pretty much not a UBI. Or if it is, then it's also coinciding with a massive cut to other social programs. Either way, not great. What's more, he isn't the kind of candidate who will do what is necessary to keep prices reasonable so that the money won't just end up increasing the profits of landlords and others who sell necessary resources, goods, and services.
When asked about climate change, Yang proposed that people use their Yang bucks to get to higher ground as a solution. That might make sense for the several seconds it may take to think about why it doesn't make much sense, but it doesn't after that. And that appeared to be his entire climate plan: people can move to avoid sea level rise!
If you unironically like capitalism and want to see it stabilized just enough that the red revolution can be crushed when the time comes, and you don't care too much about weather that will eventually threaten the collapse of civilization as we know it, then you might think Yang is a good candidate. Otherwise... (long, drawn-out fart noise)
UBI is a good thing, but Yang has for whatever reason decided that various existing programs should depend on not accepting it-- which makes it pretty much not a UBI. Or if it is, then it's also coinciding with a massive cut to other social programs. Either way, not great. What's more, he isn't the kind of candidate who will do what is necessary to keep prices reasonable so that the money won't just end up increasing the profits of landlords and others who sell necessary resources, goods, and services.
When asked about climate change, Yang proposed that people use their Yang bucks to get to higher ground as a solution. That might make sense for the several seconds it may take to think about why it doesn't make much sense, but it doesn't after that. And that appeared to be his entire climate plan: people can move to avoid sea level rise!
If you unironically like capitalism and want to see it stabilized just enough that the red revolution can be crushed when the time comes, and you don't care too much about weather that will eventually threaten the collapse of civilization as we know it, then you might think Yang is a good candidate. Otherwise... (long, drawn-out fart noise)
You can, just not definitely not alone and probably not in a major city. Get a roommate or two, move outside the city and suddenly it becomes a lot more doable.Pseudonym said:
Where I live, my mortgage payment, homeowner's insurance, and property taxes work out to ~700/month, for a 1400 sq ft 3 bed/2 bath somewhere flat in a fairly safe neighborhood that's comparatively urban (there's nothing that counts as a "real" city in WV) and in the 500 year floodplain. In the worst parts of summer and winter, my electric bill is just over $200/m (around 150 in milder weather), and water and sewer have typically been around $70/m each. Water/sewer would be cheaper if it were just me (fianc? likes baths and tripled the amount of laundry done - all my clothes can be washed together, not so for hers), but it's two people and two animals.
If we both had the Freedom Dividend (what Yang calls his UBI plan) we could pay our bills and feed ourselves without issue. We'd probably still have to work, but that's mostly because we both have cars, and pets are expensive, and we like to go out occasionally and the like, and we'd want some emergency funds, and there's always something that needs fixed or improved around the house, etc. It wouldn't be "keep your job or be out on the street starving", which means that one or both of us would have a lot more breathing room to look for something better. Realistically, we'd both continue to work and most of the time put nearly all of the Freedom Dividend into either home improvements or savings.
But if we had to, we could manage to live on the Freedom Dividend we'd just have to tighten our belts.
Yang's plan for the Freedom Dividend includes that you can continue receiving your current benefits if you prefer, you just can't receive your current benefits in addition to the Freedom Dividend. The goal being to reduce or remove many of those programs in the long run, though not immediately.Pseudonym said:
Are you complaining that it doesn't apply to children, that it doesn't apply to non-citizens, or that you can elect to receive your existing benefits instead of it?Pseudonym said:
The difference here is that a lot of the positions likely to be automated within the next 20 years aren't going to open up a similar number of jobs that can't be automated, whether through new industry or through expanding the market.Pseudonym said:
I do think this guy can make it far in the primaries, but the DNC will just give the nomination to Warren. If they were smart about it, they could make him vice president to secure more votes. Right now, all I care about is his policies should get the attention it deserves. I just want Biden to gtfo cuz he looks like a complete centrist tool.
Biden keeps having foot in mouth "senior moments" that keep hurting his support. Though you can tell that the media keeps overtly pushing Biden as Democrat candidate of choice.Worgen said:
But ?Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids" is going to follow him. So is "kids from Parkland came up to see me when I was vice president." Neither is what "I'm going to put a lot of coal miners out of business" was to Clinton in Appalachia, but they aren't going to help him.
Yang, like Bernie did last time, seems to only get more popular every time he gets to speak.
He actually called them out after the first debate - apparently when it wasn't his turn to speak they had him muted (but didn't do this to other candidates), so he couldn't interject like the other candidates and actually be heard. That sort of thing definitely reinforces the "meek" or "timid" image that keeps getting applied to him. I do agree though, he'd probably do better as VP or cabinet, at least for now. Sanders/Yang would likely turn out the vote in several parts of MAGA country, and the solidly blue states are going to go blue anyways.Worgen said:
You don't want a candidate that's only popular with groups that are already going to vote Democrat regardless of the candidate. That's how you get an election where the Democrat loses the election but wins the popular vote by a margin that's smaller than her margin in California.Saelune said:
The main thing both of those groups have in common - a rejection of the political establishment as it stood before Trump's election. For a lot of now ex-Trump supporters Trump was a rejection of the political establishment and Clinton was an embodiment of it. His failure to (in his own words) "drain the swamp" and in fact reinforcing it instead will have driven a bunch of those folks away and Yang (and also Sanders) represent a less absurd (and more well thought out) example of the same.Shadowstar38 said:
Also in the case of Libertarians specifically, UBI is a massive improvement over a large federal minimum wage hike in that instead of putting a larger cost on small businesses that will reduce hiring at the bottom of the economy it basically injects funds at the bottom of the economy and let's the market decide who wins and loses, which as far as social programs go is more appealing to them.
I am more worried they will give it to Biden because they have been bending over backwards to make him look better than he is. Warren is going to need a lot more support to get that far, so I am hoping that some of these other guys (including your guy yang here) drop out and throw their weight behind Warren just so we don't get Biden.Marik2 said:
Warren has a lot of good, well thought out plans that will actually work. She is most likely the smartest candidate we have running at this point. She comes from a lower middle class family and is an expert in middle class finance and bankruptcy so she fully understands what families are actually dealing with and what perils our economy faces in our coming future. She has proposed "aggressive intervention" to create jobs that also combat climate change along with a host of programs to help the middle and lower class get ahead. Warren tackles homelessness and poverty from multiple angles, not just throw money at it and expect it to sort itself out, it won't, it is well beyond that point due to so many pressures at once. She believes in a big safety net addressing the numerous problems so that a UBI will be less needed:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/04/us/politics/elizabeth-warren-economy-jobs.html
https://nlihc.org/resource/senator-warren-introduces-bold-affordable-housing-bill
https://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Elizabeth_Warren_Welfare_+_Poverty.htm
https://www.masslive.com/politics/2019/07/sen-elizabeth-warren-rep-al-lawson-introduce-bill-expanding-food-stamps-to-low-income-college-students.html
https://www.clasp.org/blog/senators-urge-colleagues-expand-child-care-assistance-working-families
Instead of giving everyone UBI, they would give more to those that need help the most, including financial assistance where needed:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/democrats-have-bold-ideas-for-new-social-programs-what-about-the-old-ones_n_5d03decee4b0dc17ef09870f
It isn't that I am opposed to Yang's UBI push, it is just I don't think it has a chance in hell of happening any time soon nor are his plans comprehensive enough to actually solve the problems. What good does UBI do if you still cannot afford to survive due to it not being enough to keep up with the cost of living? Still being homeless or starving even with UBI isn't helping much. You would need the UBI in addition to Warrens programs for it to even put a dent in the problem rather than having it as an either/or issue.
My main worry about so many people on the field is it splits the support too thin for others and will guarantee Biden gets in instead.
I lived on less than that as a student in the mid-1990s; inflation and currency adjusted it was about $10-11k in today's dollars. It wouldn't be comfortable, it might be hopelessly inadequate in certain parts with higher living costs, and people may have all sorts of needs (often health related) which may send them well over, but as a baseline it's probably doable.Pseudonym said:
My concern is that they are liked by people for having shitty views.Schadrach said:
Democrats lost cause the US is not a Democracy. Anyone who claims Hillary isnt president for any other reason is just objectively wrong. Hillary got more votes, and now Trump is even less popular. I do not doubt Trump will get way fewer votes than whoever we put up, the question is, will the people who actually pick the President side with the country?
If the United States was a democracy, it wouldn't have been either of those fools.Saelune said:
I don't like the idea of a businessman that is unqualified running the US. Oh, wait.
He's only marginally better than the new-age hippie, pseudoscience, vaccine-denying, crystals will heal you, Marianne Williamson.
People like to act like celebrities are this genius, and while some have good dietary habits and cool kitchen appliances.
Lots of them enable pseudoscience idiots like Deepak Chopra and "Dr" Oz who peddles snake-oil pills.
America used to be smart(We use to read the newspaper, and when people couldn't even read in other countries), and it still is in most ways, but some or most of the people in Hollywood are complete morons.
Now onto to Yang, his UBI is regressive in that it gives rich people money, and working-class people money. A negative income tax would be better, and less costly, but then again where would the people who want money to do nothing at home while their parents are already rich. (white incels)
He's only marginally better than the new-age hippie, pseudoscience, vaccine-denying, crystals will heal you, Marianne Williamson.
People like to act like celebrities are this genius, and while some have good dietary habits and cool kitchen appliances.
Lots of them enable pseudoscience idiots like Deepak Chopra and "Dr" Oz who peddles snake-oil pills.
America used to be smart(We use to read the newspaper, and when people couldn't even read in other countries), and it still is in most ways, but some or most of the people in Hollywood are complete morons.
Now onto to Yang, his UBI is regressive in that it gives rich people money, and working-class people money. A negative income tax would be better, and less costly, but then again where would the people who want money to do nothing at home while their parents are already rich. (white incels)
One of the fundamental problems with these guys is too many seem to think that because they were so successful in X, they must be good at everything.Gergar12 said:
But it's not just them, it's similarly a problem with the public: they also seem to have this idea that there are people who are smart and talented, and whether you put them at the helm of a property development outfit, government, or scientific research institute, the results will flow. In particular with businessmen, there's the enduring myth that a successful businessman will understand the economy. It's utter bullshit. Vast amounts of the stuff involved in running a business is nothing like understanding the economy.
Schadrach said:
I'll take your word for it, As I'm currently living on a similar amount of money and doing fairly alright. But if you are disabled, or ended up a single parent, or you have medical bills or are in some other situation where you'd need government aid, a 1000 a month might leave you in a lot of trouble. There are people in the US making more than that who live in their car or who ration food or medicine.Agema said:
The latter one. Thing is, I like government programs that are there to help people to be simple and without too many hoops and exceptions. That is the main draw of a UBI for me, everyone would have at least a certain minimum that they don't need to stress about or do work for. That provides a certain amount of safety. Under Yangs plan, there are inbuilt exceptions, that will harm those who need it the most. It's still a pretty good plan, but I think it would be better if it didn't have those exceptions.Schadrach said:
- Apr 1, 2009
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- Whatever, just wash your hands.
None of that matters though. Yang is pretty firmly losing and its looking rather unlikely that even someone like Warren will manage to beat Biden. Like it or not, the internet is still not real life. We have seen this sort of thing before with Ron Paul, he was winning every internet pool and then proceeded to completely fail, I still occasionally see faded 'ron paul revolution' bumper stickers around here.Marik2 said:
Biden isn't going to win. Virtually all his polling is from people who aren't paying attention or who think he's "the most electable". The "electable" argument will have collapsed by the time of the New Hampshire primary. This is a race between Sanders and Warren.Worgen said:
- Apr 1, 2009
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Yeah, that doesn't matter at all. Hes still winning, in every single poll that I can see.Seanchaidh said:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/2020_democratic_presidential_nomination-6730.html
There is an extremely good chance Biden wins and you have to be ready for that, you can't let internet propaganda make you think this is coming out of nowhere and then get all pissy like a bunch of Bernie voters did in 2016 and not vote or protest vote. Because that might have ruined the country, like forever.
It doesn't matter that he's not going to win? OK.Worgen said:
Oh, don't worry, I have a plan for that: Never Biden. But it won't be necessary.Worgen said:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/09/joe-biden-lies-gaffes-climate-townhall-democratic-race-2020
- Apr 1, 2009
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Ugh dude, I remember that making the rounds and it was passed off as misspeaking, no one cares about that. We are used to trump, who blatantly lies about almost everything. Biden is probably going to win the nomination and no amount of moaning about it will stop that, you need to advocate for the candidate you want and get more people to back them and suck it up and go for him anyway when he still probably wins, not doing that gave us trump and a fucked up judiciary that will be fucked up for a very long time.Seanchaidh said: