Poll: Am I to blame

[Devil's Due]

I always follow this logical path:

I SHOULD be allowed to leave my car unlocked at night. I SHOULD also be allowed to leave my keys in my car so I can just drive off in the morning quickly to work. If someone abuses that and steals my car, they ARE to blame and they ARE criminals, but this does not prevent the public from looking at me like I'm an idiot for doing it.

To Blame: The criminal. They stole the car. They deserve the legal punishment.

To be Sorry For: No one, because I left my car unlocked with my keys inside.

This is generally how I feel about people when they make questionable judgments including to go get drunk as hell and do risky things afterwards. If someone attacks them, the attacker deserves to be intercepted and caught and the victim deserves to be defended during the attack. But I will not feel sorry for them in the slightest because they chose to purposefully get drunk and inhibit their senses and then went out alone in dangerous areas.

To sum up: You are not to blame, OP, neither are the girls, only the attacker. But the girls ARE idiots and they do not deserve sympathy. I'm glad at least nothing too serious happened, maybe they'll sober up and learn now. Everyone always assumes there's invincible until it finally happens to them.

 

[Pigeon_Grenade]

Edit:Hello the update is just to say-thank you Escapist Member's for your kind support and that the situation has been resolved [as well as it could be given the circumstances].

And that your post's helped-most of my friends believe me and those who don't are no longer my friends the two girls have backed off now thanks to me,my Bro and the other asking them to cut it out and we are no longer involved with them ^_^.

Feel free to continue to comment and discuss if you want to with other members about what happened or just feel free to leave this thread for it to go into the folds of obscurity.

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Scenario:My brother and two lady friends went to a bar I'm the driver so no alcohol for me,all three of them get wasted my brother more so than the girls he get's so bad that he runs off to the toilet to throw up to the point where it would not be possible to get him into my car so I decide to wait a bit intill he's safe to travel.

The two girls decide that they want to leave immediately and refuse to wait for my Brother who I can't leave behind,so they say they are going to walk and find a taxi,I warned them not too go and instead to please be patient and wait 15 minutes more because it exceptionally late, they are both drunk,both wearing revealing clothing and we are not in the best neighborhood all of which could make them targets to an attack.

It at this point that I get yelled at for victim blaming/shaming and that I'm degrading them,encouraging rape culture ect ect at this point some other people join in on the yelling at me so I give up and tell them to leave and they do while I go back to the toilet to check on my brother to see if he's better yet.

Well as it turns out they were attacked as I was to find out today luckily they were able to escape with some minor bruising and nothing else, but here's the catch-they blame me completely for what happened to them due to the fact that I let them leave alone and are now trying to turn my other friends against me.

So I ask you Escapist Am I to Blame?

No Your not to Blame,it appears to be a Series of events that led to the evening. they Decided to Leave before you were Ready, Despite your warnings, of Course you Should have Stayed with your Brother, he was at this point So Drunk he more then likely couldn't have made it home safely- luss safe then them for his level of Drunkeness, how would it have looked to have left him there?, as for them casting the blame back at you, its hopefully an anger issue that will pass over the idea someone tried To attack them, they dont sound very nice for thinking they should be put ahead of your brother in the State he Was in.

 

[Abomination]

If this really happened, and not something made up, then yes.

When you're the Designated Driver, it's your job to get people home safe, especially if they're supposed to be your friends.

You don't just let them leave, you took them out, you bring them back. Or at least help them get a cab home.

If it was males getting attacked, most of these responses would be "Dude your a shitty friend"

I'm sorry but one can only be considered responsible for someone when they have the authority and power to ensure the party they are responsible for does not perform any activities that the responsible party could get in trouble for.

The OP had no power or authority to prevent the females in question from doing something that was irresponsible and so can not be held accountable for their actions.

 

[Lionsfan]

If this really happened, and not something made up, then yes.

When you're the Designated Driver, it's your job to get people home safe, especially if they're supposed to be your friends.

You don't just let them leave, you took them out, you bring them back. Or at least help them get a cab home.

If it was males getting attacked, most of these responses would be "Dude your a shitty friend"

You're actually defending these petulant children who couldn't have waited 15 minutes for a completely understandable reason AND you're gonna suggest that if the sexes were reversed, the answers ITT would've been more sympathetic???

Yes, I am defending them, because OP's fake actions were horrible. He essentially abandoned the girls because he didn't feel like walking outside with them to catch a cab, or calling one for them.

And as far as your last sentence and gif, there's people in this thread who are posting that they wished the fake women would have gotten more hurt, so yes, I do think if the fake victims weren't female, there would be a lot more people calling out the OP

Did you contribute? Yes. Those girls were your responsibility.

Those women are not his responsibility. They are adults not kids.

His brother was an adult, not a kid, he's not OP's responsibility.

Indeed his brother is not his responsibility.

I don't understand why you quoted me.

Because you responded to a poster calling out the OP for actions[footnote]Fake actions I mean, since we all know this a bullshit fake scenario[/footnote] and you were implying that the OP was in the clear because the girls were adults and not OP's responsibility

So you are saying that the women are his responsibility and thus he should be blamed?

If this really happened, and not something made up, then yes.

When you're the Designated Driver, it's your job to get people home safe, especially if they're supposed to be your friends.

You don't just let them leave, you took them out, you bring them back. Or at least help them get a cab home.

If it was males getting attacked, most of these responses would be "Dude your a shitty friend"

Alcohol does not remove a persons responsibility. Besides..

If a part of the group desides to leave, you can only try and persuade them not to so, regardless of gender.
If you attempt to physically force them to stay, that is considered assault.

Assault? Dude, where did you get assault from? Assault is an intentional act by one person resulting in an apprehension in another of imminent harmful or offensive contact.

Non-legalese, stopping two drunk girls from leaving a bar, especially girls you came in with are only trying to make sure get home, wouldn't be considered assault.

If this really happened, and not something made up, then yes.

When you're the Designated Driver, it's your job to get people home safe, especially if they're supposed to be your friends.

You don't just let them leave, you took them out, you bring them back. Or at least help them get a cab home.

If it was males getting attacked, most of these responses would be "Dude your a shitty friend"

I'm sorry but one can only be considered responsible for someone when they have the authority and power to ensure the party they are responsible for does not perform any activities that the responsible party could get in trouble for.

The OP had no power or authority to prevent the females in question from doing something that was irresponsible and so can not be held accountable for their actions.

OP would have had the authority if this really happened, he was their designated driver. They entrusted him to make sure he got home safely, and he failed. As simple as that. It's like Vietnam, no man gets left behind

 

[thehorror2]

The only person who did anything wrong is the attacker. The two girls definitely made a mistake, but they did nothing wrong.

 

[rbstewart7263]

The only person who did anything wrong is the attacker. The two girls definitely made a mistake, but they did nothing wrong.

thats probably the best way to put it yeah. Why were they attacked exactly and how did they get away

 

[Abomination]

OP would have had the authority if this really happened, he was their designated driver. They entrusted him to make sure he got home safely, and he failed. As simple as that. It's like Vietnam, no man gets left behind

Since when did "designated driver" take on the connotation of "protector, caregiver and fully responsible party"? Designated driver means you have been designated to be the driver - thus you will not drink.

And the whole Vietnam War thing? What planet are you on? It's a bar hop, not a fucking jungle war.

 

[Lionsfan]

OP would have had the authority if this really happened, he was their designated driver. They entrusted him to make sure he got home safely, and he failed. As simple as that. It's like Vietnam, no man gets left behind

Since when did "designated driver" take on the connotation of "protector, caregiver and fully responsible party"? Designated driver means you have been designated to be the driver - thus you will not drink.

And the whole Vietnam War thing? What planet are you on? It's a bar hop, not a fucking jungle war.

It's always been that way. As the sober one, your job is to make sure people stay out of trouble, that's why people have DD's, to make sure they get home safe. Not to abandon them

As for the last line, calm down bud, it was a joke

 

[Abomination]

OP would have had the authority if this really happened, he was their designated driver. They entrusted him to make sure he got home safely, and he failed. As simple as that. It's like Vietnam, no man gets left behind

Since when did "designated driver" take on the connotation of "protector, caregiver and fully responsible party"? Designated driver means you have been designated to be the driver - thus you will not drink.

And the whole Vietnam War thing? What planet are you on? It's a bar hop, not a fucking jungle war.

It's always been that way. As the sober one, your job is to make sure people stay out of trouble, that's why people have DD's, to make sure they get home safe. Not to abandon them

As for the last line, calm down bud, it was a joke

Driver is to provide transport and TRY to keep people out of trouble. If you can't see how trying to physically restrain two drunk females couldn't turn into a world of trouble for a sober male then you haven't been paying attention to modern society.

Calm down? I'm not the one who drew a parallel between a bar hop and a war.

 

[Lionsfan]

OP would have had the authority if this really happened, he was their designated driver. They entrusted him to make sure he got home safely, and he failed. As simple as that. It's like Vietnam, no man gets left behind

Since when did "designated driver" take on the connotation of "protector, caregiver and fully responsible party"? Designated driver means you have been designated to be the driver - thus you will not drink.

And the whole Vietnam War thing? What planet are you on? It's a bar hop, not a fucking jungle war.

It's always been that way. As the sober one, your job is to make sure people stay out of trouble, that's why people have DD's, to make sure they get home safe. Not to abandon them

As for the last line, calm down bud, it was a joke

Driver is to provide transport and TRY to keep people out of trouble. If you can't see how trying to physically restrain two drunk females couldn't turn into a world of trouble for a sober male then you haven't been paying attention to modern society.

Calm down? I'm not the one who drew a parallel between a bar hop and a war.

Who said anything about trying to restrain them if this really happened? It's as easy as picking up the phone, dialing 61 13 28 24, and saying "Hey I need a taxi cab at this bar". Or walking outside with them and hailing a cab which is probably driving by to pick up drunks.


And yeah bud, calm down, it's only a joke. It's not even that original bud

 

[Mert Matthews]

Honestly, i think they are completely to blame, not because of their clothing or gender but they have consumed a substance that impairs judgement and their ability to defend themselves.It was their choice to consume it on the dosage which made them choose this option therefore they knew the risks of drinking and still did it, now who is to blame when a guy puts his dick in a open electric cable? I see the same situation, you tried to stop them and told them their reason, their reason was illogical (according to the given information).

You warned them and offered help so you fulfilled your end of the bargain. Also i don't know how it works in US but back in the alleys of Ukraine people get attacked when they are drunk no matter the gender because they are easy targets and people know that and still drink on high doses.

The blame is the one with the choice, you made yours and you respected theirs (even though they didn't know what they were doing but that situation was still their choice) which imo puts blame on them.

Also the blame also rests in the attacker because he choose to attack but the main blame rests as always is the people who created the conditions for this result to occur which is society as a whole.

The reason the girls blame you is simply psychological imo, they knew their situation would give them a bad name if they admitted fault which would reduce their value in friend circles eyes,which they will probably avoid at all costs, by putting a blame on someone they reduce the pressure of their guilt just like a lol player blaming his team for his bad performance. I am not officially studying psychology(nor have i ever offically studied) but from what i read, this seems to be the case.

 

[Aetherlblade]

Their fault.

You did what was right, you stayed with your brother and encouraged them to stay. They didn't.

Now, I do believe all women (and men) should be able to go anywhere they like wearing anything and be completely safe doing it. Wearing revealing clothing and being drunk shouldn't be an invitation.

But it is. I'm sorry, but that's the world we live in. It would be like if I strapped some steaks to my shirt and wandered outside here at night, insisting "No, the wolves and coyotes won't hurt me, just because I look tasty."

I'd get eaten.

I'm not victim blaming... Well, maybe I am a bit. Because as much as we want to live in an ideal world, we DO NOT.

Of course the attacker is to blame too. He should be shot and done with, because although animals have a thought process too humans have more sense. Some people choose to ignore it, some people lack it all together though.

It's the world we live it, and people need to accept that.

Man, I wish I knew you in person so as to slap the dumb out of you. What are the levels of skin showing and levels of intoxication that all of a sudden become an "invitation" for rapists? "They were asking for it." is really a dick thing to say. Never victim blame.

It's not called victim blaming, I think it's called being realistic. Intoxicated people are easy targets. Add to that being pretty and dressed to emphasize your stong points and it DOES make you a target. Most women (and men) know this, and because of this travel in groups when it's late. Specially in a bad neighbourhood. If you know this and willingly take the risk to go out alone through a bad neighbourhood, then yes I agree that you are being dumb.

 

[kuolonen]

snip

It's always been that way. As the sober one, your job is to make sure people stay out of trouble, that's why people have DD's, to make sure they get home safe. Not to abandon them

As for the last line, calm down bud, it was a joke

So, instead of leaving to two women sober enough to walk, leave your brother who is passed out into bar's bathroom? Why, pray tell, do women get preference in this hypothetical situation? They didn't get "left behind" they left. If calling the taxis was an option, why couldn't they have done it themselves?

As for a point you mentioned earlier, about the whole women hating thing on escapist, how people wouldn't have blamed men in this situation? If this case had been two drunken guys getting mugged and losing all their possessions, after telling the OP to sod off when he encourages them to wait for him to chaperon blighters through it, I would say it was not his fault, and the dicks deserved to get mugged.

No, being drunk does not grant you holy protection from being criticized. You are supposed to drink while knowing your limits, as in, when you start acting like a fucking idiot. If you cant drink without getting yourself and/or others in danger outside your home, then stay at your home and drink on your couch.

 

[Lionsfan]

snip

It's always been that way. As the sober one, your job is to make sure people stay out of trouble, that's why people have DD's, to make sure they get home safe. Not to abandon them

As for the last line, calm down bud, it was a joke

So, instead of leaving to two women sober enough to walk, leave your brother who is passed out into bar's bathroom? Why, pray tell, do women get preference in this hypothetical situation? They didn't get "left behind" they left. If calling the taxis was an option, why couldn't they have done it themselves?

As for a point you mentioned earlier, about the whole women hating thing on escapist, how people wouldn't have blamed men in this situation? If this case had been two drunken guys getting mugged and losing all their possessions, after telling the OP to sod off when he encourages them to wait for him to chaperon blighters through it, I would say it was not his fault, and the dicks deserved to get mugged.

No, being drunk does not grant you holy protection from being criticized. You are supposed to drink while knowing your limits, as in, when you start acting like a fucking idiot. If you cant drink without getting yourself and/or others in danger outside your home, then stay at your home and drink on your couch.

The fake brother wasn't passed out in the bathroom, he just "needed 15 minutes". The fake girls could have called the taxis, but as the sober one, and the one everyone was trusting to be responsible, OP should have called a taxi. It's what a responsible DD does, and what a decent person and friend should automatically do.

Also, I never said being drunk excuses you from criticism. I just don't think making up fake scenarios to badge-hunt and hate on women is cool.[footnote]Psst - Your last sentence, about drinking within your limits and not being a fucking idiot? Yeah, you can apply all of that to the fake brother too, not sure what you were getting at there. unless it was some vague anti-drinking statement[/footnote]

 

[kuolonen]

snip

So, instead of leaving to two women sober enough to walk, leave your brother who is passed out into bar's bathroom? Why, pray tell, do women get preference in this hypothetical situation? They didn't get "left behind" they left. If calling the taxis was an option, why couldn't they have done it themselves?

As for a point you mentioned earlier, about the whole women hating thing on escapist, how people wouldn't have blamed men in this situation? If this case had been two drunken guys getting mugged and losing all their possessions, after telling the OP to sod off when he encourages them to wait for him to chaperon blighters through it, I would say it was not his fault, and the dicks deserved to get mugged.

No, being drunk does not grant you holy protection from being criticized. You are supposed to drink while knowing your limits, as in, when you start acting like a fucking idiot. If you cant drink without getting yourself and/or others in danger outside your home, then stay at your home and drink on your couch.

The fake brother wasn't passed out in the bathroom, he just "needed 15 minutes". The fake girls could have called the taxis, but as the sober one, and the one everyone was trusting to be responsible, OP should have called a taxi. It's what a responsible DD does, and what a decent person and friend should automatically do.

Also, I never said being drunk excuses you from criticism. I just don't think making up fake scenarios to badge-hunt and hate on women is cool.Psst - Your last sentence, about drinking within your limits and not being a fucking idiot? Yeah, you can apply all of that to the fake brother too, not sure what you were getting at there. unless it was some vague anti-drinking statement

If you cant call a taxi why even go to taxi post? How are you even able to walk the space in between if dialing the numbers is too much a challenge? But yes, it would have saved op the trouble if he had done so, but then we are assuming drunks would have complied.

Fake or not, you yourself are debating whether or not the actions were right, and debate is good. Even if the starting premise is lies, it is believable, aside from the missing option of phone call.

As a side note, why do you love footnotes so much? The brother had drunk so much he was physically incapable of complying with DD's request. While drinking yourself to that state is stupid, he (presumably) still following designated drivers lead. Some people's personalities change quite a bit under the influence. If you get rebellious attitude when you get drunk, you are not a person who should get drunk, and should not blame DD for your own behavior. You cannot help puking your guts out if you go overboard, but you can, or you sure as should be able to, hold on to basic reasoning like don't punch people in the face or follow the sober one's lead. The former makes trouble for sure, but not as much the latter, which can lead to more serious situation than puking on the sofa.

In short: Drinking till you are incapacitated = stupid. Drinking and starting to behave like an ass? = Really Fucking stupid.

 

[Troublesome Lagomorph]

I'd say that you did all you could, but they jumped the gun into a real bad situation. You did your best, but that didn't change their bad judgement.

 

[Wicky_42]

It's stupid to go wandering around bad parts of town intoxicated. You can be a privileged young white male and it's still a really stupid idea. Especially when someone flat out warns you of the risks. That said, it's still the attacker's fault for attacking them; they're just evidently not that smart, especially when they turn around and lash out at the one person who tried to look out for them.

So, attacker to blame for attacking, stupid people are stupid for putting themselves at risk and turning on those who tried to help, sober people need to learn to not deal with drunks

 

[Catrixa]

So, I know the situation has been resolved, but I thought I'd mention: The only thing you did really wrong was misinterpret why people get raped (really, it has nothing to do with how they dress and everything to do with simply being female in an accessible location). That being said, if they didn't want to listen to your warning, that's their issue. You are Car King. You decree what goes on in relation to your car. Leaving them in the middle of nowhere is generally a rude thing to do, but if they don't want to wait for free-gas-and-wheels-time, you shouldn't be responsible for what they do after.

I've been told all my damn life that people rape, think anything with boobs is a free target, and that going out without those things in mind (or a handgun, proper training, and a concealed-carry license) is a stupid idea. Should reality be this sexist? No, and that's why people say, "teach men not to rape!" Will those ideals stop someone from assaulting you, if you're out at night and look vulnerable?

 

[Chaos Isaac]

I'll say they're mostly to blame. Not for the attack itself, mind, but for ignoring warning and generally getting plastered on a school night, and then walking off to make themselves vulnerable for said attack.

The attacker(s) are entirely to blame for the attack. But if they had decided to be just a little patient so your brother would be good, it could have been avoided.