Poll: Am I to blame

[knight steel]

You could have left your brother behind, dropped them of and go back, maybe with some additional muscle. But no, if drunkards want to make bad decisions, let them. You had no obligation to favor any of them over others or serve them just because you would be the only one sane sober.

The reason I didn't leave my brother to drive them is because I was worried for him,he's not the best when drunk and I would never forgive myself if something happened to him while I was away and I didn't trust anyone in the bar to take care of him.Plus the girl's didn't live close by so it would have of been a while before I got back and by that time the bar might have been closed.

 

[DazBurger]

Did you contribute? Yes. Those girls were your responsibility.

Those women are not his responsibility. They are adults not kids.

His brother was an adult, not a kid, he's not OP's responsibility.

Indeed his brother is not his responsibility.

I don't understand why you quoted me.

Because you responded to a poster calling out the OP for actions[footnote]Fake actions I mean, since we all know this a bullshit fake scenario[/footnote] and you were implying that the OP was in the clear because the girls were adults and not OP's responsibility

So you are saying that the women are his responsibility and thus he should be blamed?

If this really happened, and not something made up, then yes.

When you're the Designated Driver, it's your job to get people home safe, especially if they're supposed to be your friends.

You don't just let them leave, you took them out, you bring them back. Or at least help them get a cab home.

If it was males getting attacked, most of these responses would be "Dude your a shitty friend"

Alcohol does not remove a persons responsibility. Besides..

If a part of the group desides to leave, you can only try and persuade them not to so, regardless of gender.
If you attempt to physically force them to stay, that is considered assault.

 

[Dagda Mor]

"The attacker is to blame" is a real cop-out.

 

[DarthSka]

In the end, the attacker holds all of the blame for the attack. However, your two friends were being completely idiotic and put themselves at risk, which is stupid. Unfortunately, rape is such a hot button topic that even suggesting someone not do something like the above situation is somehow regressive and sexist to some. Hell, if I tell you to lock your doors at night, am I contributing to robbery culture? Am I suggesting that if you are robbed, you are responsible? No, but I am saying doing such a thing may help you to avoid that. Same thing here. You gave good advice, you were ignored, and you chose to help your family. In the end, you did nothing wrong whatsoever.

 

[manic_depressive13]

HAHA! You think asking everyone to travel around with an entourage isn't particularly absurd?

Considering if I'm out at night its almost always for class or hanging out with friends? no it really isn't. Exactly what activity requires you to travel long distances in the dark alone?

Getting home from evening classes? Do all your friends take the same classes as you, and live where you live?

Also does "one person who isn't wasted" really count as an "entourage"

No, but "at least three people" does. I'm not very social so rarely hang around with a group. If I'm having a drink with someone it's usually just me and them. So yes, to me that is an absolutely ridiculous proposition.

Funny, I felt more like a victim when I was physically assaulted and robed because I was putzing around in the dark like a moron.

I've repeatedly "made myself a target" by your standards, and I'm yet to be attacked by some stranger on the street. So meh. If you want to blame yourself for what happened that's sad, but ultimately up to you. But just because other people don't feel the need to take unnecessary and impractical precautions doesn't make them responsible for being attacked. You can get robbed during the day. You can get assaulted when you're sober. Your precautions amount to nothing more than superstition.

That is so laughably untrue. Do you really think a girl wearing overalls and 3 sweaters has the same chance of getting raped as a girl in a miniskirt? Putting aside the whole psychological aspect as to what rapists are generally attracted to, there exists the simple logistical fact that it's hard to rape someone who's wearing more.

Lol! How the hell would the amount of sweaters you wear in any way impede someone's ability to rape you? Do you seriously think that it would be so much harder to remove a pair of jeans than a miniskirt? Seriously, how hard do you think it is to take off someone's pants? Maybe one pair of pants isn't enough. Maybe they should be wearing three pairs of pants on top of a chastity belt.

I'll concede that overalls are probably slightly harder to remove than your average piece of clothing, but you can get revealing overalls.

Spoiler

Perhaps that's the answer? All women should wear overalls?

And what are rapists attracted to, pray tell?

What's a "false stereotype" is the idea that rapists are all just indiscriminatingly raping every girl they can without thinking about these things.

Citation needed. Where is the evidence that they think about these things in the way you think they do.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

So I ask you Escapist Am I to Blame?

Bros before hoes. Literally, in this case. In ten or even twenty years down the track your brother will in all likelihood still be your brother, while it is situations just like this one which will weed out your true friends from the untrustworthy chaff.

 

[major_chaos]

Getting home from evening classes? Do all your friends take the same classes as you, and live where you live?

It's really not hard to find one or more people in my night classes who share my reservations and who I can get along with so we can get at least most of the way through the badly lit parking garage in a group.

No, but "at least three people" does. I'm not very social so rarely hang around with a group. If I'm having a drink with someone it's usually just me and them. So yes, to me that is an absolutely ridiculous proposition.

I said "ideally" three, but two people, at least one of whom is sober is still highly preferable to alone.

If you want to blame yourself for what happened that's sad, but ultimately up to you.

I'm confused as to why I wouldn't. I put myself in a situation and (quite literally) paid the price.

impractical precautions

They really aren't

You can get robbed during the day. You can get assaulted when you're sober.

Yes you can, but its less likely. refusing to do anything at all if there isn't a perfect solution is poor logic. Its like saying "well I can still get sick even if I wash my hands so I'm just never gonna wash my hands, cuz why bother". And yes I am aware that its "statistically unlikely" I'm going to be attacked on a regular basis, but its also "statistically unlikely" that I will be struck by a car, but I'm still gonna show reasonable caution when crossing a road.

 

[manic_depressive13]

I said "ideally" three, but two people, at least one of whom is sober is still highly preferable to alone.

"Watch me drink this. You can't have any because I might get raped."

Yes you can, but its less likely.

Is it? From what I've been able to find violent crime is just as likely to occur during the day.

According to the NCVS, crime happens at all times of the day and night, though particular crimes exhibit different patterns. Violent crimes occur between 6 A.M. and 6 P.M. in 52.7 percent of cases. Simple assaults occur 57.6 percent of the time during these same hours, as do 42.2 percent of aggravated assaults. Approximately two-thirds (63.2 percent) of rapes/sexual assaults occur at night. Most property crimes occur during the day, except for motor vehicle theft, which occurs 71.7 percent of the time at night.

http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/447/Victims-Crime-WHEN-WHERE-DOES-VIOLENT-CRIME-HAPPEN.html#ixzz0IGGRjnPa&D

refusing to do anything at all if there isn't a perfect solution is poor logic. Its like saying "well I can still get sick even if I wash my hands so I'm just never gonna wash my hands, cuz why bother". And yes I am aware that its "statistically unlikely" I'm going to be attacked on a regular basis, but its also "statistically unlikely" that I will be struck by a car, but I'm still gonna show reasonable caution when crossing a road.

If I'm someone who never washes their hands in this analogy, you're someone who obsessively disinfects their hands every time they touch something, then blames both themselves and others for not being clean enough if they get sick. Sometimes shit just happens.

You still haven't told me how you would have avoided getting mugged had you been sober.

 

[Callate]

It sounds as though you did every reasonable thing in your power to prevent harm from coming to people who chose to ridicule you for it.

They ought to be ashamed of themselves. You can blame someone for warning you that something will happen or for letting something happen for failing to warn you and at least be consistent. But at the point you're doing both, you're a hypocrite who's abdicating all responsibility. That's not even feminism in any real sense- it's just a self-centered unwillingness to have a stake in your own actions.

 

[inquisiti0n]

That is so laughably untrue. Do you really think a girl wearing overalls and 3 sweaters has the same chance of getting raped as a girl in a miniskirt? Putting aside the whole psychological aspect as to what rapists are generally attracted to, there exists the simple logistical fact that it's hard to rape someone who's wearing more.

Lol! How the hell would the amount of sweaters you wear in any way impede someone's ability to rape you? Do you seriously think that it would be so much harder to remove a pair of jeans than a miniskirt? Seriously, how hard do you think it is to take off someone's pants? Maybe one pair of pants isn't enough. Maybe they should be wearing three pairs of pants on top of a chastity belt.

I'll concede that overalls are probably slightly harder to remove than your average piece of clothing, but you can get revealing overalls.

Spoiler

Perhaps that's the answer? All women should wear overalls?

And what are rapists attracted to, pray tell?

What's a "false stereotype" is the idea that rapists are all just indiscriminatingly raping every girl they can without thinking about these things.

Citation needed. Where is the evidence that they think about these things in the way you think they do.

Rapists (the stranger/random kind) simply don't have the luxury to take their sweet time so of course the easier the clothing is to remove, the better it is for them. I'm not saying sweaters + overalls = unrapeable, I'm just talking about if a rapist had 2 choices between one in a coat and one in a miniskirt. All things equal, he'll go after the easier target, which wouldn't be true if clothing didn't matter.

And really, you're being deliberately obtuse. A rapist wouldn't even need to take off a miniskirt, just what's underneath it, which is wayyy easier than pulling off someone's pants while they struggle against you. You really think a rapist's mind is just sooo obsessed and occupied with rape that they wouldn't even notice something this basic?

 

[major_chaos]

"Watch me drink this. You can't have any because I might get raped."

First off all, I'm totally saying that out of the blue next time I'm drinking with buddies just to see their reaction, so thanks for that. Second, unless you are drinking everclear there is plenty of room to have a few drinks without being wasted

Is it? From what I've been able to find violent crime is just as likely to occur during the day.

I would like to see those statistics broken down more, for example, how much of that day crime statistic is made up of things that occur indoors or cases where the perpetrator knows the victim. It seems to me that outdoor/stranger crime would not be as comon during the day for simple lack of opportunity reasons.

If I'm someone who never washes their hands in this analogy, you're someone who obsessively disinfects their hands every time they touch something, then blames both themselves and others for not being clean enough if they get sick.

I have been known to act that way during flu season >_>

Sometimes shit just happens.

And sometimes you can make shit not happen, so its always worth trying.

You still haven't told me how you would have avoided getting mugged had you been sober.

I wasn't drunk, just dumb enough to walk more than needed, alone, in what I knew was a shit neighborhood at 10PM.

 

[manic_depressive13]

Rapists (the stranger/random kind) simply don't have the luxury to take their sweet time so of course the easier the clothing is to remove, the better it is for them. I'm not saying sweaters + overalls = unrapeable, I'm just talking about if a rapist had 2 choices between one in a coat and one in a miniskirt. All things equal, he'll go after the easier target, which wouldn't be true if clothing didn't matter.

And really, you're being deliberately obtuse. A rapist wouldn't even need to take off a miniskirt, just what's underneath it, which is wayyy easier than pulling off someone's pants while they struggle against you. You really think a rapist's mind is just sooo obsessed and occupied with rape that they wouldn't even notice something this basic?

Uhuh. What protective value does a coat offer exactly? Plus five to resistance? And is taking off someone's pants significantly harder than just taking off someone's underwear? Sweatpants are more modest than short shorts, but would be easier to remove because they have elastic. Revealing clothing doesn't automatically equal easy access, and modest clothing can often be easily taken off. I'm still going to need some evidence for your ridiculous claims beyond "It makes sense to me".

I would think that a rapist would be looking for someone who appears easy to overpower.

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

The attacker's fault only. Stupidity is one thing, and they do seem utterly stupid, but that doesn't make it their fault they got attacked. THAT is victim blaming just there.

You, you have no fault. They are at fault for disregarding your (in retrospect) sage advice. But it is not their fault they got attacked; it is no-one's fault but the attacker's. So, yeah, you're more or less faultless. They're not, but they're not worth blaming. And the attacker is the only person who has any proper fault for those girls being attacked.

 

[rbstewart7263]

Well according to them yeah thats is what I was supposed to do T_T

You mean they have literally said that you should have physically stopped them from leaving?

Yep that exactly what they said-they said that they were too drunk to make the right choice and as the sober driver I should have restrained them and stoped them from leaving by any means necessary.

Honestly, it sounds like you just made this scenario up.

I feel the same way. Sorry, OP. You almost had me convinced right up until you said that a bunch of randoms in a bar started yelling at you for "victim-blaming" and encouraging "rape culture". After that the whole thing just sounded completely tailored, like the sort of story that someone would invent after getting annoyed in a thread about gender issues.

Since we've only heard about this scenario from the perspective of one person - and to be honest it does sound like something that's being posed as a hypothetical to start a discussion rather than a thing that actually happened - I didn't bother voting. A little too far-fetched.

If you are telling the truth and this whole bizarre thing actually happened just as you said it did, you of course have my apologies.

Yeah I admit looking back on what I typed it does sounds absurd/made up but I promise you it did happen-also I read your comment in your avatars voice which gave me a good laugh so thanks for that

They probably have that old fashioned view of womanhood that allows them to do dumb things and then blame the man for not "being a man" and manhandling them back in the car. I got one of those its a chore reminding her that she is a human being with a brain and that her vagina is not a copout for her being responsible for her actions.

Id say its 70 30 between them and the attacker. Mostly the attacker. I dont want to victim blame but I cant say that they were smart either....hmm toughy.

actually take that back. its not really there fault at all but there is still no excuse for them tempting fate either.

 

[Devil's Due]

I always follow this logical path:

I SHOULD be allowed to leave my car unlocked at night. I SHOULD also be allowed to leave my keys in my car so I can just drive off in the morning quickly to work. If someone abuses that and steals my car, they ARE to blame and they ARE criminals, but this does not prevent the public from looking at me like I'm an idiot for doing it.

To Blame: The criminal. They stole the car. They deserve the legal punishment.

To be Sorry For: No one, because I left my car unlocked with my keys inside.

This is generally how I feel about people when they make questionable judgments including to go get drunk as hell and do risky things afterwards. If someone attacks them, the attacker deserves to be intercepted and caught and the victim deserves to be defended during the attack. But I will not feel sorry for them in the slightest because they chose to purposefully get drunk and inhibit their senses and then went out alone in dangerous areas.

To sum up: You are not to blame, OP, neither are the girls, only the attacker. But the girls ARE idiots and they do not deserve sympathy. I'm glad at least nothing too serious happened, maybe they'll sober up and learn now. Everyone always assumes there's invincible until it finally happens to them.

 

[Pigeon_Grenade]

Edit:Hello the update is just to say-thank you Escapist Member's for your kind support and that the situation has been resolved [as well as it could be given the circumstances].

And that your post's helped-most of my friends believe me and those who don't are no longer my friends the two girls have backed off now thanks to me,my Bro and the other asking them to cut it out and we are no longer involved with them ^_^.

Feel free to continue to comment and discuss if you want to with other members about what happened or just feel free to leave this thread for it to go into the folds of obscurity.

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Scenario:My brother and two lady friends went to a bar I'm the driver so no alcohol for me,all three of them get wasted my brother more so than the girls he get's so bad that he runs off to the toilet to throw up to the point where it would not be possible to get him into my car so I decide to wait a bit intill he's safe to travel.

The two girls decide that they want to leave immediately and refuse to wait for my Brother who I can't leave behind,so they say they are going to walk and find a taxi,I warned them not too go and instead to please be patient and wait 15 minutes more because it exceptionally late, they are both drunk,both wearing revealing clothing and we are not in the best neighborhood all of which could make them targets to an attack.

It at this point that I get yelled at for victim blaming/shaming and that I'm degrading them,encouraging rape culture ect ect at this point some other people join in on the yelling at me so I give up and tell them to leave and they do while I go back to the toilet to check on my brother to see if he's better yet.

Well as it turns out they were attacked as I was to find out today luckily they were able to escape with some minor bruising and nothing else, but here's the catch-they blame me completely for what happened to them due to the fact that I let them leave alone and are now trying to turn my other friends against me.

So I ask you Escapist Am I to Blame?

No Your not to Blame,it appears to be a Series of events that led to the evening. they Decided to Leave before you were Ready, Despite your warnings, of Course you Should have Stayed with your Brother, he was at this point So Drunk he more then likely couldn't have made it home safely- luss safe then them for his level of Drunkeness, how would it have looked to have left him there?, as for them casting the blame back at you, its hopefully an anger issue that will pass over the idea someone tried To attack them, they dont sound very nice for thinking they should be put ahead of your brother in the State he Was in.

 

[Abomination]

If this really happened, and not something made up, then yes.

When you're the Designated Driver, it's your job to get people home safe, especially if they're supposed to be your friends.

You don't just let them leave, you took them out, you bring them back. Or at least help them get a cab home.

If it was males getting attacked, most of these responses would be "Dude your a shitty friend"

I'm sorry but one can only be considered responsible for someone when they have the authority and power to ensure the party they are responsible for does not perform any activities that the responsible party could get in trouble for.

The OP had no power or authority to prevent the females in question from doing something that was irresponsible and so can not be held accountable for their actions.

 

[Lionsfan]

If this really happened, and not something made up, then yes.

When you're the Designated Driver, it's your job to get people home safe, especially if they're supposed to be your friends.

You don't just let them leave, you took them out, you bring them back. Or at least help them get a cab home.

If it was males getting attacked, most of these responses would be "Dude your a shitty friend"

You're actually defending these petulant children who couldn't have waited 15 minutes for a completely understandable reason AND you're gonna suggest that if the sexes were reversed, the answers ITT would've been more sympathetic???

Yes, I am defending them, because OP's fake actions were horrible. He essentially abandoned the girls because he didn't feel like walking outside with them to catch a cab, or calling one for them.

And as far as your last sentence and gif, there's people in this thread who are posting that they wished the fake women would have gotten more hurt, so yes, I do think if the fake victims weren't female, there would be a lot more people calling out the OP

Did you contribute? Yes. Those girls were your responsibility.

Those women are not his responsibility. They are adults not kids.

His brother was an adult, not a kid, he's not OP's responsibility.

Indeed his brother is not his responsibility.

I don't understand why you quoted me.

Because you responded to a poster calling out the OP for actions[footnote]Fake actions I mean, since we all know this a bullshit fake scenario[/footnote] and you were implying that the OP was in the clear because the girls were adults and not OP's responsibility

So you are saying that the women are his responsibility and thus he should be blamed?

If this really happened, and not something made up, then yes.

When you're the Designated Driver, it's your job to get people home safe, especially if they're supposed to be your friends.

You don't just let them leave, you took them out, you bring them back. Or at least help them get a cab home.

If it was males getting attacked, most of these responses would be "Dude your a shitty friend"

Alcohol does not remove a persons responsibility. Besides..

If a part of the group desides to leave, you can only try and persuade them not to so, regardless of gender.
If you attempt to physically force them to stay, that is considered assault.

Assault? Dude, where did you get assault from? Assault is an intentional act by one person resulting in an apprehension in another of imminent harmful or offensive contact.

Non-legalese, stopping two drunk girls from leaving a bar, especially girls you came in with are only trying to make sure get home, wouldn't be considered assault.

If this really happened, and not something made up, then yes.

When you're the Designated Driver, it's your job to get people home safe, especially if they're supposed to be your friends.

You don't just let them leave, you took them out, you bring them back. Or at least help them get a cab home.

If it was males getting attacked, most of these responses would be "Dude your a shitty friend"

I'm sorry but one can only be considered responsible for someone when they have the authority and power to ensure the party they are responsible for does not perform any activities that the responsible party could get in trouble for.

The OP had no power or authority to prevent the females in question from doing something that was irresponsible and so can not be held accountable for their actions.

OP would have had the authority if this really happened, he was their designated driver. They entrusted him to make sure he got home safely, and he failed. As simple as that. It's like Vietnam, no man gets left behind

 

[thehorror2]

The only person who did anything wrong is the attacker. The two girls definitely made a mistake, but they did nothing wrong.

 

[rbstewart7263]

The only person who did anything wrong is the attacker. The two girls definitely made a mistake, but they did nothing wrong.

thats probably the best way to put it yeah. Why were they attacked exactly and how did they get away