Poll: Am I to blame

[The Almighty Aardvark]

I voted other, because there's two different problems that blame could be assigned to, them getting attacked and them being put in a situation where they were likely to be attacked. For the first obviously there's only one person to blame, the person who attacked them. For the second, you are not at all to blame. I don't understand why so many people think that getting drunk voids you of any responsibility for your actions. They chose to get drunk so they decided that they would risk the lack of judgment. I'm not by any means saying that this means they are responsible for being attacked, as I mentioned this is all on the person who attacked them, but they are responsible for putting themselves in the situation that they're blaming you for.

 

[Filiecs]

Spoiler: Snip

However, when a random stranger is looking to assault a person away from the victim's home (such as just outside of a bar) the intended victim has most likely not been chosen yet. As such, the assailant chooses a victim based on what he senses is an easy/valuable target. Revealing clothing DOES make a person look more attractive and DOES attract attention. Consequently, if the assailant has a choice between assaulting a drunk person in normal clothes or a drunk person in revealing clothes, chances are he'd be more attracted to the one in revealing clothes. (However, this assumes that the assailant didn't just attack the first drunk person he saw, which could possibly be the case.)

You have failed to show it attracts the sort of attention that would result in rape, you have failed to show that attraction is a factor here.

Finally, I said increased. Increased relative to the majority of cases of rape which are planned with a specific target in mind. If the assailant has no knowledge of/motive to assault a specific victim, it is only reasonable that he would look towards appearance when choosing a victim.

Don't care if you said 'platypus', what matter is you made a claim and you don't have any evidence for it while you demand evidence of others. 'Only reasonable' is not an argument, it's your opinion.

I do not have a double standard on evidence.
I used evidence and reasoning to support my claim that the idea that the women's clothing in this situation had absolutely no affect is false and I have just provided reasoning to support the claim that you just cited.

You have 0 evidence so any reasoning you do is based on things you THINK are true without evidence.

First of all, if a statistic is 100% accurate about 100% of a group then it can only be accurately considered when accounting for the whole/most of group. When you focus on only a single subsection (6.27%) of the of the whole then the accuracy of the study in relation to that subsection is also reduced to 6.27%. That is, the study has a 6.27& chance of actually being applicable in any way to the smaller sample size.

The study about clothing and its relation to rape that was cited earlier was based off of ALL cases of rape. 66% of rape is done by a friend, family member, or ex-spouse. With friends, family members, and ex spouses we know that the rape is most likely all about power and less about sex. As a result, appearance is most likely not going to have an affect at all on the chance of rape. A stranger who rapes someone in/near the victims home has probably planned the assault and the victim's clothing would not likely matter in this case either.

Oh right and this bit. And no it can't only be considered 6.27% accurate or a 'chance'. Maybe in very simple probability classes they never told you the difference between dependent and independent variables, but when speaking as if you know something, ignorance is no excuse.

And you're making 'educated' guesses about factors. That's pretty much worth nothing, especially when you're not even making good guesses. Lives near the victim's home? How the hell did you decide they 'probably' planned it? For all you know it was more spontaneous and the proximity is just why they encountered each other.

I concede to this research paper:
http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1109&context=djglp

Hopefully, this is enough for us to find common ground. I do not believe that the original poster was wrong in saying that he was worried that the girls provocative clothing would increase the chances that they are attacked. However, I also admit that a person looking to sexually assault someone would probably look more towards a person that dresses more submissively.

 

[viking97]

These women sound like grade A idiots. You aren't too blame in the slightest, and I wouldn't worry about your friends either. The truth will come out eventually, and if your friends don't accept it then they are just plain stupid and you shouldn't associate with them anyway.

 

[HalfTangible]

Scenario:My brother and two lady friends went to a bar I'm the driver so no alcohol for me,all three of them get wasted my brother more so than the girls he get's so bad that he runs off to the toilet to throw up to the point where it would not be possible to get him into my car so I decide to wait a bit intill he's safe to travel.

The two girls decide that they want to leave immediately and refuse to wait for my Brother who I can't leave behind,so they say they are going to walk and find a taxi,I warned them not too go and instead to please be patient and wait 15 minutes more because it exceptionally late, they are both drunk,both wearing revealing clothing and we are not in the best neighborhood all of which could make them targets to an attack.

It at this point that I get yelled at for victim blaming/shaming and that I'm degrading them,encouraging rape culture ect ect at this point some other people join in on the yelling at me so I give up and tell them to leave and they do while I go back to the toilet to check on my brother to see if he's better yet.

Well as it turns out they were attacked as I was to find out today luckily they were able to escape with some minor bruising and nothing else, but here's the catch-they blame me completely for what happened to them due to the fact that I let them leave alone and are now trying to turn my other friends against me.

So I ask you Escapist Am I to Blame?

No, not at all. If anyone I'd blame the girls for being stupid AND assholes, but this doesn't seem like a scenario with any blame to assign.

 

[00slash00]

well you didnt really do anything awful, but i can certainly see how using what theyre wearing as a reason for why they might get attacked would upset them. you should have said that its a bad neighborhood and you were worried about them traveling in such a small group. that said, it seems clear that you did try to stop them and theres really only so much you can do.

 

[DocMcCray]

And here, ultimately, is the problem with the progressive movement.

It wants everyone to be completely equal despite the fact that everyone is completely different.

OP, you told them it wasn't safe. You knew that an attack was a possibility. You knew they made an attractive target. But they blame you because you were saying that not all people are equal in all ways.

Men are predominantly, factually, and scientifically stronger than women. Men are predominantly more physically and sexually aggressive than women. No amount of "we should all be equal" will change that. Ignoring these facts won't change things.

It
Just
Is

They are trying to hold you to a double standard by first saying "You are callings us victims!" and then saying "Why didn't you prevent us from being victims!?" Ultimately the attacker carries full responsibility for the attack. But the girls carry the full responsibility for putting themselves at risk, even when you tried to help them.

My suggestion is that as long as you don't have some other connection to these girls (work, school, club activities, etc), you sever ties with them and never speak to them again. If you do have to be around them, don't go drinking with them. They have already proven they are not responsible for their own actions.

 

[BleedingPride]

You warned them, you cared for their well being and you were just trying to keep them safe, and yet they blame YOU for jumping the gun? Screw that, you're most certainly not to blame for what happened.

 

[game-lover]

My first reaction is to laugh. And then to be cold and think... "well, you warned them. I'd say they brought it on themselves."

I would have chosen option 5 but then I saw option 7 and I guess that's more fitting. Because yeah, the attacker is mostly responsible.

But seriously, if there was ever a reason for the words 'tempting fate,' that situation was it. They have no right to blame you. You tried to convince them not to do anything and they accused you of being a sexist or something. Now when it turns out your concerns have some merit, they wanna take it out on you.

Fuck them sideways. I'll say right now, they get no sympathy from me.

 

[Wolf In A Bear Suit]

Obviously the attackers are scum yadda yadda, but the shear ignorance of those girls is astounding and to be honest, they asked for it by ignoring your advice. Can't say I feel sorry for people who try to blame the person who did their best to help them. It's not like you could pin them down and force them to go home with you is it?

 

[Silvanus]

You're not to blame at all. You tried to do the right thing, and you were shouted down.

I'd also say that they, the girls, aren't to blame, either-- it's not at all easy to perceive danger when you've been drinking.

But, certainly, you can't be blamed for what happened.

 

[game-lover]

Yeah, fuck sluts who let themselves get raped by getting raped.

No. Fuck bitches who blame someone for them getting raped when that person isn't fucking responsible and even tried to prevent it.

I'm not saying they let themselves get raped anyway but there's something to be said for erring on the side of caution. Instead they had the fucking nerve to be insulted at the thought of their being potential risk to their person and then got fucking pissed when said risk became more than that.

 

[Fox12]

I voted none of you are to blame. I'm assuming you weren't in a high crime area, and therefore the females had no reason to assume they were going to be attacked. You aren't to blame because you can't abandon your brother when you've told him you were going to get him home.

You couldn't compel them to stay with the group and accept the ride. They chose, on their own, to walk out. They didn't choose to be attacked though, so no blame their (it's not like drunk+skimpy clothing compels someone to attack, they attack on their own for their own reasons, regardless of what their target is or isn't doing or wearing).

Thanks I agree with you-but what can I say to them to get them to stop bad mouthing and blaming me?

There's really nothing you could have done. As for them bad mouthing you, all you can do is calmly explain the situation to others. Don't lose your temper, don't get mad, just calmly lay down the facts in a logical and well thought out way. Be the mature one. Assuming you told us the whole truth, and didn't leave out any facts or alter any of the information, there's no way this is your fault. We live in a free society, but part of that entails personal responsibility. If someone remains angry at you after you explain the situation to them, than I would argue they were never your friends to begin with, and there's no great loss. The best thing you can do is be indifferent and not let it bother you, as you've done nothing wrong and therefore have no reason to feel guilty.

And no, this does not mean you support rape culture, as you were only looking out for their best interest. The only thing you may be guilty of is having bad taste in friends, and that's something we've all been guilty of at some point or another.