Poll: An objective view or relationships?

[M Rotter]

try to pick friends who enjoy an healthy dose of criticism

but being logical and being a berk are two different things i think people forget that.

Ive met a lot of people who say something "true" in the wrong setting or very aggressively and snigger when the person gets upset. When you can't logic out when your argument is going to be heard then you dont care about being logical at all...youre being a berk. Being intelligent and logical is not only thinking up some great truth about a person or thing, but also knowing when you will be heard and when it will have the greatest effect.

I say this because, though you can yell up and down that you dont care what people think,
if you didnt want to be heard why did you say it?

 

[omega 616]

try to pick friends who enjoy an healthy dose of criticism

but being logical and being a berk are two different things i think people forget that.

Ive met a lot of people who say something "true" in the wrong setting or very aggressively and snigger when the person gets upset. When you can't logic out when your argument is going to be heard then you dont care about being logical at all...youre being a berk. Being intelligent and logical is not only thinking up some great truth about a person or thing, but also knowing when you will be heard and when it will have the greatest effect.

I say this because, though you can yell up and down that you dont care what people think,
if you didnt want to be heard why did you say it?

I don't care what they think of me, at all.

I, for unknown reasons, get frustrated by people not thinking about consequences or weighing the pro's with the con's.

Drinking has ALOT of cons (which are long and short term) and a few pro's (all short term). So I can't get my head round why it is so popular.

 

[Rachel317]

What you said and what (s)he said are different.

Oh come on, how many guys have you ever met called "Rachel"?

Like I said, I am an opinionated guy and I like to express those opinions, there is nothing wrong with that. What is wrong is to be gang up on 'cos you took something the wrong way or for thinking differently than other people.

If you didn't care what people thought, you wouldn't be trying to get validation on here.
Everyone cares what people think of them, to some degree, whether that be 1% or 100%

Plus, you seem to know how you come across. Maybe THIS has something to do with why people "gang up" on you. Maybe they feel as though you're constantly degrading everyone around you? Maybe they've really just had enough of humouring you.

There's a difference between stating your honest opinions bluntly, and stating them harshly. Have you ever stopped to wonder whether, as you're "stating" your opinion, the person you're speaking to is being offended by what you say? Or whether they've heard it a million times before?

Or...and this might just be the real problem, that you express your opinions, expect everyone to agree with you, and not actually allow them to voice their opinions? When people feel constantly belittled and confronted, they'll quickly reach the limits of their patience.

 

[Vykrel]

i go with an objective view, always. the closest thing i do to siding with a friend or family member is when i just dont say anything. i wouldnt disagree with something big if it were coming from my dad, for instance. id just say something like "Mm."

 

[omega 616]

If you didn't care what people thought, you wouldn't be trying to get validation on here.
Everyone cares what people think of them, to some degree, whether that be 1% or 100%

Plus, you seem to know how you come across. Maybe THIS has something to do with why people "gang up" on you. Maybe they feel as though you're constantly degrading everyone around you? Maybe they've really just had enough of humouring you.

There's a difference between stating your honest opinions bluntly, and stating them harshly. Have you ever stopped to wonder whether, as you're "stating" your opinion, the person you're speaking to is being offended by what you say? Or whether they've heard it a million times before?

Or...and this might just be the real problem, that you express your opinions, expect everyone to agree with you, and not actually allow them to voice their opinions? When people feel constantly belittled and confronted, they'll quickly reach the limits of their patience.

I don't read user names.

Are you trying to be psychic? 'cos your kind of off or are you relying on your over use of "maybe" to make a point that you can easily say "I was only suggesting it" if your wrong?

I am not trying to get validation, I want to know if people take an objective view point on things or jump straight to the aid of there friends or family 'cos in my experience it is the latter.

I addressed what I cared about in another post, if you care to look it up. If not then I am not going to repeat it.

I know how I come across, I have been told many times. I don't fuck around, beating around the bush 'cos I don't see the point in it.

I don't have people around me, I don't see my family, I get bored of any friends that I had/have. I would spend more time alone if I could, it gives me freedom to do what I want, when I want and I don't have to suffer other peoples minor problems that they blow way out of proportion, "my dog just died", "it's a dog, get another one" (I have had 6 dogs and loads more animals, so it's not like I am talking about something I know nothing about), "My boyfriend cheated on me 3 times but he says he wont do it again" "of course he will, he knows he can get away with it and your stupid enough to let him".

If people are getting offended by my opinion, then I don't want to know them 'cos they would probably be (for lack of a better word) cry babies. The kind who bitches 'cos they don't believe in god, so they are offended that an Xmas tree has a star on top or there is a nativity scene in public.

I like other peoples opinions, it is why I joined this forum. I love games and like talking about things and seeing the world from somebody Else's eyes but I have had about 50 separate arguments about alcohol and I still can't get my head round why people like it!

Plus I have only added this person from the example recently, I doubt her sister reached that point that quickly.

Yes, I am a bitter person but we are all products of our environment. Whats with this line? "Or...and this might just be the real problem", am I frustrating you?

 

[Rachel317]

Are you trying to be psychic? 'cos your kind of off or are you relying on your over use of "maybe" to make a point that you can easily say "I was only suggesting it" if your wrong?

I use the term "maybe" as I may, indeed, be wrong about my impression of your original post.
All I'm saying is that I know people who are like this, and it sounds an awful lot like you're that kind of person.
As I say, I might be wrong.

I am not trying to get validation, I want to know if people take an objective view point on things or jump straight to the aid of there friends or family 'cos in my experience it is the latter.

Your wording suggests otherwise.

I addressed what I cared about in another post, if you care to look it up. If not then I am not going to repeat it.

I see why people might jump every time you say something! This sounds very rude to me.
Again, I might be wrong. But I take offence at patronisation.

I know how I come across, I have been told many times. I don't fuck around, beating around the bush 'cos I don't see the point in it.

As I say, there is a difference between harshness and bluntness. I'm often very blunt, but try to do it as tactfully as possible, without offending another person. This isn't about hiding who you really are, it's about common decency.

I don't have people around me, I don't see my family, I get bored of any friends that I had/have. I would spend more time alone if I could, it gives me freedom to do what I want, when I want and I don't have to suffer other peoples minor problems that they blow way out of proportion, "my dog just died", "it's a dog, get another one" (I have had 6 dogs and loads more animals, so it's not like I am talking about something I know nothing about), "My boyfriend cheated on me 3 times but he says he wont do it again" "of course he will, he knows he can get away with it and your stupid enough to let him".

Yeah...this whole thing really just emphasises what I just said. This isn't about whether you are "logical" or enjoy relationships more, it's about your lack of tact and sensitivity. If you said things nicely, and people took offence, then you might have an argument. However, an abrasive, arrogant front will only serve to annoy people.
Calling someone stupid, and not giving a damn about someone's dog (I've had dogs for years, and every time I lose one, it's sad, because I count them as a member of the family. Whether you do or not isn't the point, but you can't express your opinions, believing them to be 100% right, without giving other people the opportunity to also express their, equally valid opinions.

If people are getting offended by my opinion, then I don't want to know them 'cos they would probably be (for lack of a better word) cry babies. The kind who bitches 'cos they don't believe in god, so they are offended that an Xmas tree has a star on top or there is a nativity scene in public.

Maybe, if several people have been offended by you, they're not the ones with the problem?
I agree with you on the Christianity thing, Christmas is based on a religious event. If people celebrate it, yes, they're involving themselves in religion. However, they are entitled to be offended by what they will.

I like other peoples opinions, it is why I joined this forum. I love games and like talking about things and seeing the world from somebody Else's eyes but I have had about 50 separate arguments about alcohol and I still can't get my head round why people like it!

Just because you don't like alcohol, that doesn't mean that someone who DOES like it is "wrong" or deserves to be questioned about it. Your choice is valid, but so is theirs.
The fact you "argue" about alcohol (of all things) suggests that you have not learnt to pick and choose your fights, a valuable life lesson you'll HAVE to learn, or you'll end up constantly in trouble.

Plus I have only added this person from the example recently, I doubt her sister reached that point that quickly.

Maybe this girl just likes to defend her sister from the world? Something that you, obviously, do not value as much as being "logical" or, as some people (such as myself) would suggest, "confrontational".

Yes, I am a bitter person but we are all products of our environment. Whats with this line? "Or...and this might just be the real problem", am I frustrating you?

Umm...who suggested you were frustrating me? If you re-read what I wrote, you'll see that I'm expressing an opinion, just as you are and claim to enjoy. Where this thread is concerned, however, this seems like an EXTREME juxtaposition.

 

[RollForInitiative]

Somehow, I doubt we're getting the whole story here. If you get into arguments that easily and that frequently then there's probably something wrong with you.

 

[Rachel317]

Somehow, I doubt we're getting the whole story here. If you get into arguments that easily and that frequently then there's probably something wrong with you.

My point exactly.

 

[JokerCrowe]

I'm very objecive, so I try to keep an objective view on everything. However, I don't think that being objective and relationships are opposites. I really think you're making a mountain out of a molehill here. But since you probably didn't make this thread to hear that you are wrong, I must agree to the fact that this "friend" of yours really did overreact.

 

[omega 616]

Are you trying to be psychic? 'cos your kind of off or are you relying on your over use of "maybe" to make a point that you can easily say "I was only suggesting it" if your wrong?

I use the term "maybe" as I may, indeed, be wrong about my impression of your original post.
All I'm saying is that I know people who are like this, and it sounds an awful lot like you're that kind of person.
As I say, I might be wrong.

I am not trying to get validation, I want to know if people take an objective view point on things or jump straight to the aid of there friends or family 'cos in my experience it is the latter.

Your wording suggests otherwise.

I addressed what I cared about in another post, if you care to look it up. If not then I am not going to repeat it.

I see why people might jump every time you say something! This sounds very rude to me.
Again, I might be wrong. But I take offence at patronisation.

I know how I come across, I have been told many times. I don't fuck around, beating around the bush 'cos I don't see the point in it.

As I say, there is a difference between harshness and bluntness. I'm often very blunt, but try to do it as tactfully as possible, without offending another person. This isn't about hiding who you really are, it's about common decency.

I don't have people around me, I don't see my family, I get bored of any friends that I had/have. I would spend more time alone if I could, it gives me freedom to do what I want, when I want and I don't have to suffer other peoples minor problems that they blow way out of proportion, "my dog just died", "it's a dog, get another one" (I have had 6 dogs and loads more animals, so it's not like I am talking about something I know nothing about), "My boyfriend cheated on me 3 times but he says he wont do it again" "of course he will, he knows he can get away with it and your stupid enough to let him".

Yeah...this whole thing really just emphasises what I just said. This isn't about whether you are "logical" or enjoy relationships more, it's about your lack of tact and sensitivity. If you said things nicely, and people took offence, then you might have an argument. However, an abrasive, arrogant front will only serve to annoy people.
Calling someone stupid, and not giving a damn about some one's dog (I've had dogs for years, and every time I lose one, it's sad, because I count them as a member of the family. Whether you do or not isn't the point, but you can't express your opinions, believing them to be 100% right, without giving other people the opportunity to also express their, equally valid opinions.

If people are getting offended by my opinion, then I don't want to know them 'cos they would probably be (for lack of a better word) cry babies. The kind who bitches 'cos they don't believe in god, so they are offended that an Xmas tree has a star on top or there is a nativity scene in public.

Maybe, if several people have been offended by you, they're not the ones with the problem?
I agree with you on the Christianity thing, Christmas is based on a religious event. If people celebrate it, yes, they're involving themselves in religion. However, they are entitled to be offended by what they will.

I like other peoples opinions, it is why I joined this forum. I love games and like talking about things and seeing the world from somebody Else's eyes but I have had about 50 separate arguments about alcohol and I still can't get my head round why people like it!

Just because you don't like alcohol, that doesn't mean that someone who DOES like it is "wrong" or deserves to be questioned about it. Your choice is valid, but so is theirs.
The fact you "argue" about alcohol (of all things) suggests that you have not learnt to pick and choose your fights, a valuable life lesson you'll HAVE to learn, or you'll end up constantly in trouble.

Plus I have only added this person from the example recently, I doubt her sister reached that point that quickly.

Maybe this girl just likes to defend her sister from the world? Something that you, obviously, do not value as much as being "logical" or, as some people (such as myself) would suggest, "confrontational".

Yes, I am a bitter person but we are all products of our environment. Whats with this line? "Or...and this might just be the real problem", am I frustrating you?

Umm...who suggested you were frustrating me? If you re-read what I wrote, you'll see that I'm expressing an opinion, just as you are and claim to enjoy. Where this thread is concerned, however, this seems like an EXTREME juxtaposition.

So your basing all this on the OP, rather than everything I have said?

Like I said I often come across the wrong way, I know I have bad wording but it's who I am. I have tried the whole being super nice thing and I still got in trouble, now I am doing the whole shutting myself off thing and it's going great.

Or...and this might just be the real problem

"sounds very rude to me. Again, I might be wrong. But I take offence at patronisation."

In person I am far more polite and considerate etc, I hold doors open and stuff, I even say "thanks" to bus drivers even though I don't know why.

I edited this thread removing "logic" for "objective view", it better captures what I mean. This thread also isn't about enjoying either one more, it's about what you go to aid in attacking a guy making a point or take a step back and see who has said what and then say "He was only making a point but he did it in a bad way, now can it end and not be brought up again?" if it is brought up again have words with the person who brought it up.

The dog thing was just an example, I have had many dogs (6 or 7) and of course they have died but things carry on, the world doesn't stop and after a few months even the owner has gotten over it.(unless you make a shrine to it and stuff it but why hold to a painful memory?)

I just don't want to listen to people moan on about there mundane lives, although I am starting to get pangs of guilt for not asking questions back like when somebody asks how was your weekend, I say fine and leave it at that. You would consider my life boring and mundane, which is why I wouldn't talk about it to people.

I listen to there opinion and understand it, it's when they can't even consider my side it pisses me off. I always get talked over, it once took me an 1 hour to finish a sentence to somebody 'cos every time I got half way through I got interrupted, when I manage to spit it out (note: I stayed clam thought the ordeal) she said "OH, why didn't you say that earlier?".

I am not sure I ave said this to you, but actually like being proved wrong, that's what we all do this for, isn't it? We all argue to get people to agree to our views and when that happens I like to think I have learned something during that argument/debate/whatever. Maybe it's just me...

When I have to listen to people bang on about how wasted there going to get, how there never going to drink again ... till next week, how there hangover is sooo bad, bragging how much they drunk last night and booze being in my face all the time, it starts me off.

It boggles my mind how this drink can be so adored and defended so aggressively, isn't it human nature to try to understand everything? That's why we want to go into space, it's why we have electricity, it's why we broke open the atom etc seeing how far we can go and to understand it all.

I am not being confrontational, by the very fact I try to stop slanging matches. Confrontational implies I look for fights or try to start them, I am just opinionated and I like to talk about views.

I just thought you were getting frustrated, it sounded to me like you were. I don't see the "EXTREME juxtaposition" though.

 

[Daffy F]

I think your problem is you're arguing on Facebook.

/thread


It's like going to a nursery school and asking the children about string theory. In fact, scratch that, it's like going to facebook and asking about string theory.

How Zen.
To be honest, there's absolutely nothing wrong with having a discussion/argument on facebook, it's no worse than arguing with people on the escapist except it's with people you know from outside the internet.
OT: I think a lot of people either lack the brainpower to choose an objective standpoint over an opinionated defense of someone they like, or they simply can't be bothered to look at it from someone Else's point of view, and refuse to listen to reason because it's simpler to just write "Fuck off!" than it is to read someone's argument and think about it.
Although if she's not your friend, just someone you know, then maybe you should post on her Statuses at all.
(That is unless you want to get them mad at you. I do that sometimes. It's fun.)

 

[M Rotter]

try to pick friends who enjoy an healthy dose of criticism

but being logical and being a berk are two different things i think people forget that.

Ive met a lot of people who say something "true" in the wrong setting or very aggressively and snigger when the person gets upset. When you can't logic out when your argument is going to be heard then you dont care about being logical at all...youre being a berk. Being intelligent and logical is not only thinking up some great truth about a person or thing, but also knowing when you will be heard and when it will have the greatest effect.

I say this because, though you can yell up and down that you dont care what people think,
if you didnt want to be heard why did you say it?

I don't care what they think of me, at all.

I, for unknown reasons, get frustrated by people not thinking about consequences or weighing the pro's with the con's.

Drinking has ALOT of cons (which are long and short term) and a few pro's (all short term). So I can't get my head round why it is so popular.

i understand. There are plenty of arbitrary and illogical things that make me crazy and i express it all the time, just not to people that will make me crazier with their misinterpretation or (in my opinion) stupid viewpoint. I just think that there is enough stupidity in the world without inviting it in-though stupid people do have a habit of jumping into things that are irrelevant to them, which is when i suppose we can all feel guiltless when ripping them a new one with logic.

Also almost everything has a con. Its just an economic choice, people are willing perhaps to deal with the long term bad for the short term good. Why? i dont know. Running is good for you, but in the long run it can damage your knees. Obviously alcohol is worse but im just making a point.

 

[omega 616]

i understand. There are plenty of arbitrary and illogical things that make me crazy and i express it all the time, just not to people that will make me crazier with their misinterpretation or (in my opinion) stupid viewpoint. I just think that there is enough stupidity in the world without inviting it in-though stupid people do have a habit of jumping into things that are irrelevant to them, which is when i suppose we can all feel guiltless when ripping them a new one with logic.

Also almost everything has a con. Its just an economic choice, people are willing perhaps to deal with the long term bad for the short term good. Why? i dont know. Running is good for you, but in the long run it can damage your knees. Obviously alcohol is worse but im just making a point.

The stupid people have been pissing me off than usual as of late, due to the xmas season. I have seen a guy wearing shorts in -15oC weather, I have had a woman clog an entire isle by leaving her shopping trolley perpendicular to the isles while she went into another isle for something, I have seen people stop and put down bags in the middle of the road while they have chat, people walking in front of slow moving traffic (not 1 or 2 MPH but about 6 or 7 MPH).

I thought that would cheer this thread up a little.

I welcome people to join in on anything I am talking to another person about, just as long as they don't interupt anybody (face to face) or just put something like "lol your gay, alchol is fuckin awesome" (on the net). Add something to the debate or shut up, it's not funny or clever and it makes you look like an immature douche.

I get everything has a con, it's natural. I think it is about weighing the pro's and the con's, for example: alcohol costs alot, damages your liver and other organs, literally retards the brain, if your a girl makes you an easy target for rape, can lead to injury or death (from getting into a fight to drunk driving), can lead to a baby being brought into a bad situation, have to get ready to go out, get there and get home (which is more hassle than a con) etc etc etc

On the pro list you have fun for a few hours and it can make you relax (depending on how much you have). I would put socailize on the pro list but if you can do that sobre you have issues!

To be honest, I would rather get a game, which I can enjoy for many more hours for the same price as a night out.

Granted I maybe be accused of over simplifing things, but to me that is the best way to go about things. Break the whole thing down to be as simple as can be, then see what your left with.

 

[Sarcastic_Applause]

i amazingly dont have this problem much, unless i hit on a sensitive issue like religion or politics, and even then i stay pretty shallow on those issues. If i ever did get that sort of thing and people got agressive with it, it simply proves that they can't back up their theory well enough to convince me otherwise. I find aggression within debate is just childish and i feel like i should pity those who get pent up over something so minute.

Referring back to an argument i DID have once, and sadly this was about twilight, where i was discussing why i disliked the movies, whereas my friend was so close to fangirl-ism that im surprised she didnt have a picture of Robert Pattinson in her purse to mutter sweet nothings to. Anyway, my main point was that i disliked the movies because i couldnt feel any sympathy for the characters at all, primarily Bella who i hate for that exact reason. And for the simple fact that the story to me just felt like a complete afterthought. She clearly yelled at me for hating it... Good god

 

[M Rotter]

i understand. There are plenty of arbitrary and illogical things that make me crazy and i express it all the time, just not to people that will make me crazier with their misinterpretation or (in my opinion) stupid viewpoint. I just think that there is enough stupidity in the world without inviting it in-though stupid people do have a habit of jumping into things that are irrelevant to them, which is when i suppose we can all feel guiltless when ripping them a new one with logic.

Also almost everything has a con. Its just an economic choice, people are willing perhaps to deal with the long term bad for the short term good. Why? i dont know. Running is good for you, but in the long run it can damage your knees. Obviously alcohol is worse but im just making a point.

The stupid people have been pissing me off than usual as of late, due to the xmas season. I have seen a guy wearing shorts in -15oC weather, I have had a woman clog an entire isle by leaving her shopping trolley perpendicular to the isles while she went into another isle for something, I have seen people stop and put down bags in the middle of the road while they have chat, people walking in front of slow moving traffic (not 1 or 2 MPH but about 6 or 7 MPH).

I thought that would cheer this thread up a little.

I welcome people to join in on anything I am talking to another person about, just as long as they don't interupt anybody (face to face) or just put something like "lol your gay, alchol is fuckin awesome" (on the net). Add something to the debate or shut up, it's not funny or clever and it makes you look like an immature douche.

I get everything has a con, it's natural. I think it is about weighing the pro's and the con's, for example: alcohol costs alot, damages your liver and other organs, literally retards the brain, if your a girl makes you an easy target for rape, can lead to injury or death (from getting into a fight to drunk driving), can lead to a baby being brought into a bad situation, have to get ready to go out, get there and get home (which is more hassle than a con) etc etc etc

On the pro list you have fun for a few hours and it can make you relax (depending on how much you have). I would put socailize on the pro list but if you can do that sobre you have issues!

To be honest, I would rather get a game, which I can enjoy for many more hours for the same price as a night out.

Granted I maybe be accused of over simplifing things, but to me that is the best way to go about things. Break the whole thing down to be as simple as can be, then see what your left with.

i agree i just think the source of the his frustration is that some people dont put much importance on some cons, or dont think about it. Ive met people who break things down and then pick (in my opinion) the stupidest outcome. Their brain just de-emphasizes things that our brains dont.