Poll: Are core gamers too harsh on Nintendo?

[Taerdin]

SIGH

I never said childish = bad, I just said I'd rather not lock myself into those kinds of games and sometimes (read: most of the time) I need more. If anyone is strawmanning here its you, you're making this out to be some kind of crusade against childish games when instead its just my opinion. Oh and nice touch with the:

"THE GAMES ARENT CHILDISH!"

*I give you proof of a game being childish*

"Okay... sure... that one is childish... but what about these other games!"

I don't think I need to spell this out to you, despite your obvious thickness I still credit you with enough intelligence to see that Zelda is pretty youth friendly as well, as with most nintendo games. Get over yourself, gg gtfo kthx bai.

I'm done here, you clearly don't get it.

PS. As someone who has boardgaming as one of his main hobbies, I find it hilarious that you think Monopoly is a good boardgame. There's probably about 5000 boardgames I'd play before that one, including Busen Memo. Yeah I went there.

 

[tyranuus]

Gah, damn this thread.

Its reminded me of a load of games I'd been meaning to grab at some point and forgotten, because the Wii just does NOT get marketed and barely mentioned here in the UK. Yeah I know the graphics aint all that, BUT Zelda:TP is still one of my favourite games this generation, and Metroid had absolutely brilliant graphics for what its working with, very stylised and done exceptionally well.

I've ended up buying No More Heroes, RE4, Super Paper Mario and Fire Emblem thanks to this thread (along with Guilty Gear for my brother and Overlord 2 for me). Damn you! I've got too much stuff to do as it is...guess Im not gonna run out of games any time soon.

 

[sumanoskae]

Nowadays, yes. It's not Nintendo I despise, it's the Wii. Here, I'll count the games I give a fuck about on the Wii

Twilight Princess
Metroid 3(Maybe)
Red Steel 2
No More Heroes
No More Heroes 2
SSBB
Silent Hill: Shattered Memories

In comparison

PS3

Demon's Soul's
MGS 4
God Of War 3
Killzone 2
Star Wars The Force Unleashed
Star Wars The Force Unleashed 2
Dante's Inferno
Splinter Cell Conviction
Heavy Rain
Bayonetta
GTA IV
Borderlands
GTA: The Ballad Of Gay Tony
GTA: The Lost And Damned
Dragon Age Origins
Yakuza 3
Mafia II
Alpha Protocol
Bioshock
Bioshock 2


360

Halo 3
Dead Rising
Dead Rising 2
Mass Effect
Mass Effect 2
Alpha Protocol
Star Wars The Force Unleashed
Star Wars The Force Unleashed 2
Dante's Inferno
Borderlands
Gears Of War 2
Red Dead Redemption
Bioshock
Bioshock 2
Splinter Cell Conviction
Mafia II
GTA IV
GTA: The Ballad Of Gay Tony
GTA: The Lost And Damned

Should I go on?

...
In short:
You failed at research. Your point is irrational. Your list sucks. You get a facepalm.

I voted yes not becaus of Nintendo's game liebery, but because Nintendo waited 3 years to fix their motion controls, showed no suport for 3rd parties (most companies didn't hear about wii motion+ until they annouced it at E3), and the Vitality Sensor what the fuck is a Vitality Sensor!?

Learn how to spell check, then we can talk

Please explain

 

[MiserableOldGit]

Nintendo deserve everything they get. Now, I know this will sound fanboyish, and people will throw things at me, but I'm from the generation that was there at the start, back when the only people that supported them were us schoolboys that were shit at football.
All the way through to the 64 we were there, defending that fat fuckin plumber in front of Sega fans when we knew the blue hedgehog was cooler, making do with 8Bit and two button controllers, ignoring the call of the mega drive with its sexy curves and streets of rage grimyness, we spent our pocket and watched them grow.
The rot was setting in with the cube, but we accepted that a family focused company would want to appeal to a wider audience as that audience became more receptive. Then BAM! out comes the streak of piss (or Wii, as some drooling marketing type called it) and all of a sudden theres no room for us in the family anymore. No more Goldeneyes, no more Killer Instincts, just a series of mindless inoffensive flash games that were belched out in the space of an afternoon to rinse cash out of a largely naiive audience that don't know any better. Fuck nintendo, fuck them right in the ear.

 

[Treblaine]

SIGH

I never said childish = bad, I just said I'd rather not lock myself into those kinds of games and sometimes (read: most of the time) I need more. If anyone is strawmanning here its you, you're making this out to be some kind of crusade against childish games when instead its just my opinion. Oh and nice touch with the:

"THE GAMES ARENT CHILDISH!"

*I give you proof of a game being childish*

"Okay... sure... that one is childish... but what about these other games!"

I don't think I need to spell this out to you, despite your obvious thickness I still credit you with enough intelligence to see that Zelda is pretty youth friendly as well, as with most nintendo games. Get over yourself, gg gtfo kthx bai.

I'm done here, you clearly don't get it.

PS. As someone who has boardgaming as one of his main hobbies, I find it hilarious that you think Monopoly is a good boardgame. There's probably about 5000 boardgames I'd play before that one, including Busen Memo. Yeah I went there.

WHY do you have to keep making this personal? I chose monopoly because everyone has heard of it and a high majority have played it, D&D would probably be better but it didn't fit my analogy well enough. I didn't say it was one of the best board games, it was just a good example and are you actually saying that NO ONE can have fun playing the game!?!?

I'm not impressed by Busen Memo. That's just a "game" where you have to match up the left and right breast of 48 women, more like a puzzle, a very simple and immature puzzle. Immature in the sense of adolescent, obsessing over breasts, making an entire game out of them, honestly.

The bottom line is that the Nintendo Wii has many exclusive titles which are not too childish or simple for an adult to play. Games like:

-Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
-Metroid prime Trilogy (MP 1 & 2 with Wii controls)
-Super Mario Galaxy (do you realise how acclaimed this game is?)
-Zelda Twilight Princess
-Super Smash Bros Brawl
-No More Heroes
-House of the Dead: Overkill
-Muramasa: Demon Blade
-Nyxquest
-Tastunoko vs Capcom
-Wii edition of Resident Evil 4
-MadWorld
-Dead Space Extraction
-Resident Evil: Umbrella/Darkside chronicles

And upcoming titles like:
-Monster Hunter Tri
-The new Zelda
-Mario Galaxy 2
-No More Heroes 2
-Metroid Other M
-Red Steel 2

And lets not forget the Virtual Console which has pretty much every hit game from Nintendo and most of the hits of their old competition like Sega. There are dozens of worthy titles available and the majority only on the Wii.

Also while a minority of the big platform selling titles like Super Paper Mario, Mario Kart Wii and Wario Shake Dimension may be "childish", still the majority of critics and journalists who highly review these games don't recommend them on the condition "only suitable for children" they recommend them to everyone.

Now all this puts into perspective how it is unfair to dismiss the Wii for one asinine cutscene in one video game for the platform. This is all back on topic about how hardcore gamers are too harsh on the Wii and a tidy majority agree with me on this (going by the poll).

 

[Treblaine]

You're too thick to warrant any more effort from me. (yet you then write a wall of text at me)

Before I reply I would like to remind you hurling insults like how I am a "fanboy", "unbelievably pathetic" and "too thick to warrant any more effort" is blatant troll behaviour so stop it and stop over-reaction so much when I disagree with you or have a counter-point. Could you not be a bit more polite to fellow forum users? Just take a deep breath and think before you reply.

So... you actually have a Wii, in your household at least. And you own games for it but not Zelda or Mario. May I ask what games for the Wii you do own? Also, have you actually played Twilight Princess, Mario Galaxy or any Mario or Zelda games to form your opinion or have you just observed them from a distance? Otherwise I really recommend you give these games a(nother) chance, who cares about the plot "family movie" or otherwise, they have excellent engaging gameplay and pacing.

I really hope you are not just dismissing these games because you find them "uninteresting" due to their apparently thin plots. Above all else games are about gameplay, and Shigeru Miyamoto who is the creative director of said titles is a modern master at creating engaging, fun and deep gameplay and level design. Escapist have hosted many articles about how games are unfairly compared to films and one area is how games are perceived to need engaging plots like a film or book. That shouldn't be necessary when immersion and interest in the world can be achieved through the gameplay.

"I also find it hilarious that you thought I meant I seriously like Busen Memo"

Well what do you expect when you said:
"There's probably about 5000 boardgames I'd play before (monopoly), including Busen Memo."

That means you like it more than monopoly. Sorry if I didn't catch your cryptic irony, do you want me to grovel? I'm sorry OK, don't get so angry.

 

[CriticalGriffin]

Please explain

Let's first say that your list doesn't even come close to the good game library of what the Wii has.

Nintendo deserve everything they get. Now, I know this will sound fanboyish, and people will throw things at me, but I'm from the generation that was there at the start, back when the only people that supported them were us schoolboys that were shit at football.
All the way through to the 64 we were there, defending that fat fuckin plumber in front of Sega fans when we knew the blue hedgehog was cooler, making do with 8Bit and two button controllers, ignoring the call of the mega drive with its sexy curves and streets of rage grimyness, we spent our pocket and watched them grow.
The rot was setting in with the cube, but we accepted that a family focused company would want to appeal to a wider audience as that audience became more receptive. Then BAM! out comes the streak of piss (or Wii, as some drooling marketing type called it) and all of a sudden theres no room for us in the family anymore. No more Goldeneyes, no more Killer Instincts, just a series of mindless inoffensive flash games that were belched out in the space of an afternoon to rinse cash out of a largely naiive audience that don't know any better. Fuck nintendo, fuck them right in the ear.

Suddenly, your username makes a whole lot of sense to me.

 

[Taerdin]

Before I reply I would like to remind you hurling insults like how I am a "fanboy", "unbelievably pathetic" and "too thick to warrant any more effort" is blatant troll behaviour so stop it and stop over-reaction so much when I disagree with you or have a counter-point. Could you not be a bit more polite to fellow forum users? Just take a deep breath and think before you reply.

It's because you're not listening to me and you're just saying the same thing over and over. How is this not being thick explain this to me. I've already conceded like every point you'd made or are going to make, and told you that this is how I think and you will not change it. You're basically trying to break down a brick wall with your face, something only a pathetic fanboy would do. I'm not going to shy away from speaking the truth just because its unpleasant to hear for you.

So... you actually have a Wii, in your household at least. And you own games for it but not Zelda or Mario. May I ask what games for the Wii you do own? Also, have you actually played Twilight Princess, Mario Galaxy or any Mario or Zelda games to form your opinion or have you just observed them from a distance? Otherwise I really recommend you give these games a(nother) chance, who cares about the plot "family movie" or otherwise, they have excellent engaging gameplay and pacing.

I have House of the Dead 2/3/Overkill and No More Heroes. No More Heroes was supposed to be good, I got it for like $10 but it never really engaged me. I've always been a fan of house of the dead as I grew up in the arcade. I occasionally play Mario Kart Wii with my girlfriend even though it bothers me how casual friendly it is sometimes, and same with New Super Casual Brothers which offers to beat the level for you when you have trouble. Sigh.

I really hope you are not just dismissing these games because you find them "uninteresting" due to their thin plots.

Did you seriously say this? You hope I'm not dismissing things that I find uninteresting? Well I do. I also don't knit, or watch soap operas, or plenty of other things that don't interest me. You know why?! Because they don't freaking interest me. This "I like it so you must like it too!" argument is growing a little thin, you're not even making logical sense anymore.

Above all else games are about gameplay, and Shigeru Miyamoto who is the creative director of said titles is a modern master at creating engaging, fun and deep gameplay and level design. Escapist have hosted many articles about how games are unfairly compared to films and one area is how games are perceived to need engaging plots like a film or book. That shouldn't be necessary when immersion and interest in the world can be achieved through the gameplay.

Oh well I form my own opinions I don't get them from other people. Theres a big difference between a game that focuses on gameplay and has great gameplay and completely forgoes having a story, and a game that shoves a juvenile uninteresting plot down your throat for 5-10 unskippable minutes for every so much of gameplay. I don't care to wade through the family movie plots of these games to get to the (pretty casual) gameplay within, regardless of how 'great' the DESIGNER OF THE GAMES THEMSELVES tells me they are, or regardless of how much of a Nintend-hardon a particular publication has for the games.

In otherwords, you can't change my opinion so quit trying to break down that brick wall with your face, and arguing without any real logic against FACTS which cannot be disproven.

"I also find it hilarious that you thought I meant I seriously like Busen Memo"

Well what do you expect when you said:
"There's probably about 5000 boardgames I'd play before (monopoly), including Busen Memo. Yeah I went there"

That means you like it more than monopoly.

Not quite. It was me exaggerating, saying that monopoly is JUST THAT BAD. I also like how you conveniently removed the 'yeah I went there' from my statement. I put it back for you don't worry.

 

[Treblaine]

*look above for full fisking response*

Well I have to reply at least to defend myself and how you seemed to have misinterpreted a remark I made.

When I said: "I really hope you are not just dismissing these games because you find them "uninteresting" due to their thin plots." I don't think I made myself clear enough to you.

I meant
"I hope you weren't just turned off these games because they have uninteresting plots"
not merely
"you're uninterested in them because they don't interest you"
which OF COURSE I didn't mean because that would be stating the obvious. Sometimes I wonder if you are deliberately misinterpreting what I say...

And come on... Mario and Zelda games are hardly that heavy on the cutscenes, you must have an EXTREMELY low irritation threshold if you can't sit through 5 minutes of exposition for every couple hours of gameplay. I mean the cutscenes aren't that bad, no worse than MGS4's melodrama or Gears of War's macho swaggering, why are you so caustically opposed even offended by things you perceive as "immature". What I'm recommending is you reconsider these games with an open mind and maybe you can change your mind, only you can change your own mind but only if you want to and actually give it a chance.

Yes there are some publications that have a "hard on for Nintendo" (like the official Nintendo magazine at least) but come on, I cannot find a single negative or even average review for Super Mario Galaxy. Have YOU played it? Have you even TRIED it? Many publications rightly have a hard-on for some of the games because they are really bloody good.

What is it you actually mean when you don't like a game because it is too "casual", because although that term is used a lot in relation to video gaming it doesn't actually mean anything. Well I suppose it is easy to pin down what is a casual game, but is the gameplay not challenging enough? Does it lack depth or the need to invest skill? Is it just that it isn't another blood filled 'brown-shooter' with gritty burly broad shouldered space marines (NOT necessarily your opinion, your are TOO VAGUE)? So what is it, saying "too casual" is a baseless criticism. We all know your opinion (that is BLATANTLY obvious) but what is not clear or cohesive are your criticisms.

I used to be like you with my PS3, I used to hate my PS3 for reasons I now realise were unfair and ultimately stemmed from the frustration I had finding a way of viewing the HD output for the console and a bunch of other bullshit too. I got to a point where I would refuse to even consider genuinely good games like Killzone 2 or Uncharted and just be like "Aurgh, I hate my PS3, full of shit casual games like Little Big planet and flower, god damn hippie games".

In fact I'd hold you are a pretty good example of how hardcore gamers ARE too harsh on Nintendo. You really have had almost NOTHING good to say about the Wii, beyond House of the Dead, you are certainly overly negative towards the platform and the company in general.

 

[Taerdin]

In fact I'd hold you are a pretty good example of how hardcore gamers ARE too harsh on Nintendo. You really have had almost NOTHING good to say about the Wii, beyond House of the Dead, you are certainly overly negative towards the platform and the company in general.

No I am NOT! I said the games were good but they're not what I want to play! They are great for kids and I will buy them for my kids! I said all these things already! You are the perfect example of a Nintendo fanboy who never backs down irregardless of how wrong you are. Maybe you should have more of an open mind and realize that just because you like something doesnt mean every bloodly other person on the planet has to like it. Maybe if you read my posts you would understand but you clearly dont. You're just a petty, selfish, self centered sheep who lets the mass media lead your opinions and beliefs. I never want to associate with you ever, you are beyond aggravating. If you cant admit that sometimes the plots to Nintendo games are pretty childish and accept that as the valid criticism that it is then there is no hope for you ever seeing things for what they really are.

Its fine to love things and thhink they are great, but everything is not perfect. Stop being such a bloody moron, and learn to live with other people's valid criticisms.

I'm done fisking, can you be done strawmanning now? If I had a dollar for every time you put words into my mouth this thread I would have a crisp twenty dollar bill on my desk right now. You're making arguments against things other people have said, and are pegging me as "one of those people". How about you stop being so ignorant and actually read what I've written.

 

[Mother Yeti]

irregardless

Yeah, I'm going to go and agree with Treblaine.

 

[Chipperz]

No. Core gamers are the ones who own a Wii and play it, along with the 360, PS3 and PC.

Shitty little casual gamers stick to a single platform and refuse to even consider something outside of their realm of experience. FPS "gamers" are the worst, especially when they start factionalising into games.

 

[gamepopper101]

Third Party Developers are being harsh too. Like Sega, they have provided awesome titles for the Wii and then suddenly they give us the middle finger by saying no Wii for Project Needlemouse and Afterburner Climax.

Seriously Sega, If you could get Sonic Unleashed to work on the Wii, Project Needlemouse couldn't be more difficult. Also, FUCK YOU SEGA! Why not release Afterburner Climax on the Wii? You ported Ghost Squad and two House of the Dead titles! Is the Lindbergh system too difficult to port to Wii?

 

[Treblaine]

You're just a petty, selfish, self centered sheep who lets the mass media lead your opinions and beliefs. I never want to associate with you ever, you are beyond aggravating.

Lol. Could I quote you as a character reference?

Nintendo games are great for all ages, and you still didn't explain what you meant by "too casual".

 

[Katana314]

Bad exposition because of a five-minute cutscene shows design issues. Issues that I have seen solved a number of ways.
HALF-LIFE 2: You never lose control of your character. Exposition of all major plot elements are basic and shoved down your throat while letting the player PLAY THE GAME. You walk into a trainstation and see a big screen and a guy getting shoved for trying to bring his luggage. The conclusion is it's 1984 all over again, this guy on the screen is in control, and everyone is policed like they're black during ages of segregation. They didn't need a cutscene for that and the player feels more involved the more THEY'RE the ones in control. Furthermore, you can choose to look around if you're actually interested, or you can walk by in which case you'll only get the most important information.

PHOENIX WRIGHT: You maintain interest as much as possible, and only reveal things when they're needed. Link doesn't need to know the long history of how the 3 gods formed the planet and sealed their powers inside a gold triangle. It might be nice if the info was available to people who were interested...but Phoenix only needs to know that "the victim had some fight with this guy. Go talk to him if you want to know more." and even then, they find ways of keeping your attention such as through actual JOKES interspersed, rather than luring the player deep into this emotional drama.

And yeah, I played SMG. I didn't really see the major difference of it, and waving the Wii Remote around to do just about anything got really annoying. Plus, the spherical gravity thing didn't really actually AFFECT the puzzles much; just an unusual setting that puts further strain on the techies, and it made movement unnecessarily difficult.

Metroid Prime, for me, has consisted of far too many slogs through familiar territory killing enemies with the same sequnces of moves. No matter how MANY different enemies there are, few feel truly dynamic. I also have no idea why I'm shooting up this planet like a Columbine imitator; and heck, I DID do all the scanning.

There. I cited specific instances of failures to design correctly, supported by reasoning. This is not really a matter of taste or preference.

[[Detective Gumshoe: ...That's it! I've been trying to think of the right word to describe the taste. I just got it right now... "Bad"! That's it!]]

 

[DaBozz]

I want to change my vote, nintendo don't deserve all the hate, the WII however deserves every single last drop of hatred put out to it AND more.

 

[The Middleman]

A little, considering Nintendo's always just done they're own thing, and have been relatively good at it. As far as Nintendo goes, if you don't want different, then don't buy Nintendo, and don't complain. That's all it comes down to.

 

[DustyDrB]

Did anyone else get a laugh over the fact that we have a boardgamer battle here?

 

[Mehall]

I honestly hate when people say there are "only, like, 2 or 3 good games on the Wii".

Yes, I will admit, the quantity of AAA titles on the Wii is less than the other consoles, but I will just remind you to look back at older Ninty consoles: The catalogue just gets better and better. The best time to own a Ninty console is after it's dead. I forgot this when I got my Wii on release day, but tbh I don't regret it at all, and here are the reasons why:

Mario Galaxy
New Super Mario Bros.
World Of Goo (WiiWare, but better than the PC version due to multiplayer)
Brawl
Kart
Metroid Prime Trilogy
No More Heroes (Which, yes, is being ported to the other consoles. but the sequel will be out on Wii first.)
Okami (which nobody picked up on PS2)
Twilight Princess
Zack & Wiki
Little King's Story
Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom (Only just got released in the UK, but I bought it.)
Super Paper Mario
Tales Of Monkey Island (WiiWare)
Call of Duty: World At War (Great version)
CoD: Modern Warfare (Once you tinker with deadzones and sensitivity, it's fantastic. great version)
Muramasa
Eledees
Madworld (horrendously underrated)
Klonoa
Mario Strikers Charged (due to ninty's admittedly horrid online, this is now marred by cheaters, but play offline with friends and it's amazing)
Fire Emblem
Sports + Sports Resort
both Trauma Center games for the Wii
Another Code: R



is it just me, or does that seem like a lot of gaming to you? Yes? and you can get it wrapped up in a little box that easily fits with your TV? And there are shovel-ware Disney games for kids and Wii Fit for the wife/gf?


And to those who keep saying it's a last gen console: The Wii is around twice as powerful as the old gen consoles, it just doesn't have HD. TBH? I don't care. HD is STILL not the most common TV type, and as a poor uni dropout paying off his overdraft, I'm still playing on an SD TV. As are many others I'm sure.


Yes, I want a PS3. But I won't be selling my Wii to get it. Not even if you gave me the money I paid back.

 

[StigmataDiaboli]

It would appear so. I used to, but now I am on a University game art course I've begun to understand what each platform holds and can achieve. Can't beat a bit of Mario Kart to settle desputes in the office.