Poll: Are core gamers too harsh on Nintendo?

[CriticalGriffin]

Well you can't argue weather something is fun or not, that's personal taste. Nothing has inherent value, it just has value to us. The thread asked me my opinion, that's my opinion, I don't hate Nintendo, I just think they're being greedy exploitative dicks

Most of the Wii's games are sequels, or rip offs of cliche genre games from other consoles with shitty motion control, or mini game collections I should be able to play online, this doesn't exactly strike me as creative

Counting the Wii games that are considered good, so you're saying popular opinion is correct?

No More Heroes
No More Heroes 2
Metroid 3
Twilight Princess
Mario Galaxy
SSBB

Congratulations there are six, what did is miss?, what other games are there?, go ahead list them

No personal opinion is correct, that's why they're personal opinions

You're not going to find some magical calculator that tells of something's worth by searching for popular opinions

As I always said before, even personal opinions must be build on rationality, something that seems a bit lacking in your statements. And I'm not saying popular opinion is the right kind of opinion, but sometimes, things are popular for a reason. It may not be some huge reason in some cases, but there is a reason for it to be popular, and you should not dismiss it.
And your list still misses alot of good games the Wii has, but I'm currently far too lazy to list all of them.

Also, I really like to know what do you mean by those magival "Wii's games that are sequels, or rip offs of cliche genre games from other consoles with shitty motion control, or mini game collections", since I don't seem to be living in the same time and space-continuum as you.
And do not count shovelware either, 'cause they are exactly like they say: shovelware.

 

[MetallicaRulez0]

As ridiculously successful as Nintendo has been in the last few years with the Wii and DS, I don't think anyone could argue that they haven't turned their backs on the core gamer crowd that the 360 and PS3 thrive on. I mean, I guess it's worked out great for them, but kind of a dick move to just ignore the people who made you what you are, ya know?

I was a Nintendo fan until I bought a Wii and realized there were literally less than 3 "gamer games" out over a year after it's release. I've owned every Nintendo console except the Virtual Boy, and the Wii is the first one I've ever gotten rid of.

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

Dude, you put up the title of the thread as "Are core gamers too harsh on Nintendo?" A simple yes or no question with the answer "yes" being in positive view of Nintendo and "no" being the negative. Yet the actual question itself, "Does Nintendo deserve getting such a hard time?" actually reverses it, making the answer "yes" the negative choice and "no" being the positive.

If you put a question into the title, people are going to think that is the question they are answering. It confused the hell out of me when I realized I voted against Nintendo when I'm actually for it.

No gamer wars, ya hear?

 

[Fappy]

There are some real video games on the Wii... keeping that in mind I believe hardcore gamers don't give the Wii's brilliant marketing strategy enough credit. Its helping the industry. What I hate are those people that believe they are gamers because they can boll a perfect game on Wii Sports... sorry dude, its just not true.

 

[tthor]

Nope. i never really had much of feelings for/against Nintendo before the wii, tho i did have some fond memories of the N64. after about 3 weeks of playing my wii, i slowly started to realise just how boring the wii is, and have yet to play a good game on it.. now it just sits there, taunting me...
in order for nintendo to gain back their respect from me with their next game console, it better be made of f-ing gold, (and no, i do not mean the solid gold Wii)
anyone care to disagree, prove me wrong, show me one truly awesome game for the Wii, so that i may buy it, revive my wii, and live happily ever after

 

[Fappy]

Nope. i never really had much of feelings for/against Nintendo before the wii, tho i did have some fond memories of the N64. after about 3 weeks of playing my wii, i slowly started to realise just how boring the wii is, and have yet to play a good game on it.. now it just sits there, taunting me...
in order for nintendo to gain back their respect from me with their next game console, it better be made of f-ing gold, (and no, i do not mean the solid gold Wii)
anyone care to disagree, prove me wrong, show me one truly awesome game for the Wii, so that i may buy it, revive my wii, and live happily ever after

Grab a first party title.

 

[sumanoskae]

Well you can't argue weather something is fun or not, that's personal taste. Nothing has inherent value, it just has value to us. The thread asked me my opinion, that's my opinion, I don't hate Nintendo, I just think they're being greedy exploitative dicks

Most of the Wii's games are sequels, or rip offs of cliche genre games from other consoles with shitty motion control, or mini game collections I should be able to play online, this doesn't exactly strike me as creative

Counting the Wii games that are considered good, so you're saying popular opinion is correct?

No More Heroes
No More Heroes 2
Metroid 3
Twilight Princess
Mario Galaxy
SSBB

Congratulations there are six, what did is miss?, what other games are there?, go ahead list them

No personal opinion is correct, that's why they're personal opinions

You're not going to find some magical calculator that tells of something's worth by searching for popular opinions

As I always said before, even personal opinions must be build on rationality, something that seems a bit lacking in your statements. And I'm not saying popular opinion is the right kind of opinion, but sometimes, things are popular for a reason. It may not be some huge reason in some cases, but there is a reason for it to be popular, and you should not dismiss it.
And your list still misses alot of good games the Wii has, but I'm currently far too lazy to list all of them.

Also, I really like to know what do you mean by those magival "Wii's games that are sequels, or rip offs of cliche genre games from other consoles with shitty motion control, or mini game collections", since I don't seem to be living in the same time and space-continuum as you.
And do not count shovelware either, 'cause they are exactly like they say: shovelware.

You know, racism is also a popular opinion.

The question here is "does the Wii deserve all the hate it get?s", now, if we throw personal opinion out the window then what do we use to measure the worth of this system?, let's start with popular opinion(ignoring the fact that a lot of people hate the Wii more then I do), why does popular opinion matter?, well you could argue that if a large amount of people like something it could be for a reason(as you did), and yes it is for a reason, they all have a high personal opinion of it, if one doesn't matter then why should a thousand, just because there are a lot of them doesn't mean they're like Geth and think more clearly(in fact, they often don't think for themselves, many of these popular opinions are little more then fads). But let's examine this whole idea of "worth", what constitutes worth?, and what exactly is worth?, some imaginary scoring system we have to decide if something should or shouldn't be thrown to the sharks?, we have no evidence of the existence of this... thing, we just people who say that our opinions alone don't matter. If we aren't allowed to decide on something by ourselves then we have no way of deciding anything. Trying to use logic to measure something that has the primary goal of fun is fallacious because fun is a matter of perspective, and perspective is full of psychological issues that blur it's vision, it's decisions on what it likes are rarely based on logic.

The thing is, in the end, nothing maters anyway, we're just here by chance and we try to make the best of it. If the earth spontaneously exploded right now, why would it matter?, morality is a line drawn in sand, there's no meaning in it. Logic tries to find a reason for everything, but IT has no reason to exist.

So why do we do what we do, because we've made our own reasons for living. If we didn't have things to blur our vision then we'd reach the conclusion that it's all for nothing and live without reason or die because we have none.

I digress. In the end what I'm saying is that popular opinion doesn't have any more credibility then personal opinion, so you shouldn't change your opinion on something because other people say it's good.

Moving on to more concrete statements

A)shovel ware is shovel ware and there's no reason the Wii should get a free pass
B) if you're to lazy to go find these "great" games then why should I believe that you?re not just fooling yourself
C)Almost every game I listed was a sequel, and 90% of the other games I've heard of on Wii are mini game collections
D) another reason I hate the Wii is that it doesn?t do anything for the medium, none of it's games,(that I know of) or at least very few, innovate gameplay or storytelling in a meaningful way, they just remake old games with better graphics and maybe one new feature
E) you act like I'm selling something, like I'm supposed to convince you that my opinion is correct, I'm just expressing my thoughts on the situation

Last: asking if the Wii deserves the hate it gets answers for itself(by you're logic at least), it's hated, it's a popular opinion, so there must be a reason for it right?. Both are right, it's a matter of opinion, and you can't tell me my personal opinion sucks. Weather or not the Wii deserves hate is also a matter of opinion, I gave my opinion because deserving something implies that something "should" happen, and "should" is a form of morality, a line in sand, an opinion

 

[CriticalGriffin]

*A large wall of text, that probably has a good arguement, but is still overly for me to actually read*

Moving on to more concrete statements

A)shovel ware is shovel ware and there's no reason the Wii should get a free pass
B) if you're to lazy to go find these "great" games then why should I believe that you?re not just fooling yourself
C)Almost every game I listed was a sequel, and 90% of the other games I've heard of on Wii are mini game collections
D) another reason I hate the Wii is that it doesn?t do anything for the medium, none of it's games,(that I know of) or at least very few, innovate gameplay or storytelling in a meaningful way, they just remake old games with better graphics and maybe one new feature
E) you act like I'm selling something, like I'm supposed to convince you that my opinion is correct, I'm just expressing my thoughts on the situation

Last: asking if the Wii deserves the hate it gets answers for itself(by you're logic at least), it's hated, it's a popular opinion, so there must be a reason for it right?. Both are right, it's a matter of opinion, and you can't tell me my personal opinion sucks. Weather or not the Wii deserves hate is also a matter of opinion, I gave my opinion because deserving something implies that something "should" happen, and "should" is a form of morality, a line in sand, an opinion

A) But that also means every single console in existence can be considered the worst one ever. Any game console is always bound to have shovelware, so making any specific statements about a console sucking because it has shovelware is like complaining papers potentially giving you cuts. Not to mention, nobody is forcing you to buy those games anyway, so it's really not that big of a deal.

B) Because you asked for it(these are the games you haven't listed, by the way):

Little King's Story
Muramasa: Demon Blade
Resident Evil 4(I'm counting it, mostly because it's probably the best version of RE4 you can have)
Metroid Prime Trilogy
Super Mario Galaxy
Okami
Excitebots: Trick Racing
The Conduit (your mileage may vary on this one, though)
Telltale Games' point 'n' click adventures
Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure
Tatsunoko vs. Capcom: Ultimate All-Stars
Punch Out
Wario Land: The Shake Dimension
New Super Mario Bros. Wii
Mario Kart Wii...?
MadWorld
Castlevania: The Adventure ReBirth
Contra ReBirth
World of Goo
Klonoa
Elebits
Another Code: R ? A Journey into Lost Memories
Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World(my frined always talk about it, atleast)
Deadly Creatures
Dead Space: Extraction
Trauma Center
Megaman 9
Rabbids Go Home
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
A Boy and His Blob
Tons of Virtual Console games

Games that are coming out tha might be good:
Epic Mickey
Metroid: Other M
Zelda Wii
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Kirby Wii(when it actually comes out, that is)
Two Nintendo's upcoming RPGs
Calling
Dragon Quest X
Fatal Frame IV: Mask of the Lunar Eclipse
Fragile Dreams: Farewell Ruins of the Moon
Monster Hunter 3

Now, I'm not saying that those are games that you must get immediately, but those are some games that I know that has a good reception.
And I still think I might be missing a few.

C) ... Just like over half of the games you listed for Xbox 360 and PS3. Hypocrisy, anyone? And since when did game journalists started to make news about Wii minigames? Or is that you never followed news for Wii games? ... Or you just filter out everything good regarding the Wii, hmm...?

D) ... Just like half of the games you listed for Xbox 360 and PS3. Hypocrisy, anyone? Again?

E) Yes, but I'm also expressing my thoughts about you're thoughts and why I disagree with them.

Last: asking if the Wii deserves the hate it gets answers for itself(by you're logic at least), it's hated, it's a popular opinion, so there must be a reason for it right?. Both are right, it's a matter of opinion, and you can't tell me my personal opinion sucks. Weather or not the Wii deserves hate is also a matter of opinion, I gave my opinion because deserving something implies that something "should" happen, and "should" is a form of morality, a line in sand, an opinion

Yes, the reason for hating is because hating Nintendo is popular these days. There's you're reason, now stop throwing low blows like this, they won't help you at all. So shut it.
I'm not saying that you're opinion is absolutely wrong. Each person's taste about each console is different from others. I understand that, but it doesn't give the right for anyone to complain about other consoles(or the company making them, for that matter), because it's not like the console he/she prefers.
For example, you cannot say that liked Toy Story but hated the Incredibles, because it's not as good as the movie you liked personally.
Which brings back to my saying, that even opinions need reason, rationality and logic.
But that's my opinion anyways, so you're most likely going to ignore this and proceed to continue this arguement further.

 

[edinflames]

So much fanboy rage in this thread, its certainly given me a few chuckles.

What I have read can be boiled down to these points:

1) Many people, for a variety of reasons, dislike the Wii and thus Nintendo get dissed. Some of their opinions have been expressed here.

2) The fanboys (always rushing to a fight) feel somehow injured that other peoples dislike the Wii. To counter argument the fans make some big lists of Wii games they love as a counter to whatever opinions are proffered by the haters and repeat "I bet you haven't tried these games".

3) The haters come back and try to restate their views, sometimes angered by the fanboys' insistence that they are wrong.

4) One or two people try to post a reasoned argument, or attempt to point out that this thread is opinion and trying to change people's views through forums ALWAYS fails.

5) These people are ignored, steps 2 and 3 are repeated ad nauseum.

What have we learned here today children?

Ideally we learned that people are allowed to like or dislike whatever the hell they want.

More likely however is that the fanboys feel better for backing each other up and the haters feel disappointed that the fanboys won't let them state an opinion without a "yeah but".

The real lesson: The Wii is cool if you enjoy it, but that's no excuse for joining the fanboy collective. If you don't enjoy the Wii, that too is valid but you should never bait fanboys - it is like arguing with Christians (as in, you will be shouted down until they feel they have won).

 

[GamingAwesome1]

I think they deserve all the hate they get. All the boring Wii Fit/Music/Sports casual crap alone deserves them hate. But they're not fucking listening when we say we would like something NEW, enough with the remaking of old games.

 

[aPod]

Will, I have owned all 3 game consoles this generation... and i only have 2 left... guess which one is no longer with me.

Its just prefrence, i like the games that come out on PS3 and Xbox360 more than the games on wii, and yes the Wii does feel gimmicky, it's a good gimmick though and it really pushed gaming into the mainstream. Hell even my sister plays games now.

Anyways, the biggest gripe against the Wii is that third party developers who cater to "core" gamers dont make games for Wii, and as Core gamers play those games they also abandon the Wii. Gamers go where the games are. Let me clarify, i know the wii has some good games. However, they do not have the good games i'm interested and personally i just dont like the motion controlls. I think they are annoying.

But im just a PS3, 360, PC fanboy this generation

 

[sumanoskae]

*A large wall of text, that probably has a good arguement, but is still overly for me to actually read*

Moving on to more concrete statements

A)shovel ware is shovel ware and there's no reason the Wii should get a free pass
B) if you're to lazy to go find these "great" games then why should I believe that you?re not just fooling yourself
C)Almost every game I listed was a sequel, and 90% of the other games I've heard of on Wii are mini game collections
D) another reason I hate the Wii is that it doesn?t do anything for the medium, none of it's games,(that I know of) or at least very few, innovate gameplay or storytelling in a meaningful way, they just remake old games with better graphics and maybe one new feature
E) you act like I'm selling something, like I'm supposed to convince you that my opinion is correct, I'm just expressing my thoughts on the situation

Last: asking if the Wii deserves the hate it gets answers for itself(by you're logic at least), it's hated, it's a popular opinion, so there must be a reason for it right?. Both are right, it's a matter of opinion, and you can't tell me my personal opinion sucks. Weather or not the Wii deserves hate is also a matter of opinion, I gave my opinion because deserving something implies that something "should" happen, and "should" is a form of morality, a line in sand, an opinion

A) But that also means every single console in existence can be considered the worst one ever. Any game console is always bound to have shovelware, so making any specific statements about a console sucking because it has shovelware is like complaining papers potentially giving you cuts. Not to mention, nobody is forcing you to buy those games anyway, so it's really not that big of a deal.

B) Because you asked for it(these are the games you haven't listed, by the way):

Little King's Story
Muramasa: Demon Blade
Resident Evil 4(I'm counting it, mostly because it's probably the best version of RE4 you can have)
Metroid Prime Trilogy
Super Mario Galaxy
Okami
Excitebots: Trick Racing
The Conduit (your mileage may vary on this one, though)
Telltale Games' point 'n' click adventures
Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure
Tatsunoko vs. Capcom: Ultimate All-Stars
Punch Out
Wario Land: The Shake Dimension
New Super Mario Bros. Wii
Mario Kart Wii...?
MadWorld
Castlevania: The Adventure ReBirth
Contra ReBirth
World of Goo
Klonoa
Elebits
Another Code: R ? A Journey into Lost Memories
Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World(my frined always talk about it, atleast)
Deadly Creatures
Dead Space: Extraction
Trauma Center
Megaman 9
Rabbids Go Home
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
A Boy and His Blob
Tons of Virtual Console games

Games that are coming out tha might be good:
Epic Mickey
Metroid: Other M
Zelda Wii
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Kirby Wii(when it actually comes out, that is)
Two Nintendo's upcoming RPGs
Calling
Dragon Quest X
Fatal Frame IV: Mask of the Lunar Eclipse
Fragile Dreams: Farewell Ruins of the Moon
Monster Hunter 3

Now, I'm not saying that those are games that you must get immediately, but those are some games that I know that has a good reception.
And I still think I might be missing a few.

C) ... Just like over half of the games you listed for Xbox 360 and PS3. Hypocrisy, anyone? And since when did game journalists started to make news about Wii minigames? Or is that you never followed news for Wii games? ... Or you just filter out everything good regarding the Wii, hmm...?

D) ... Just like half of the games you listed for Xbox 360 and PS3. Hypocrisy, anyone? Again?

E) Yes, but I'm also expressing my thoughts about you're thoughts and why I disagree with them.

Last: asking if the Wii deserves the hate it gets answers for itself(by you're logic at least), it's hated, it's a popular opinion, so there must be a reason for it right?. Both are right, it's a matter of opinion, and you can't tell me my personal opinion sucks. Weather or not the Wii deserves hate is also a matter of opinion, I gave my opinion because deserving something implies that something "should" happen, and "should" is a form of morality, a line in sand, an opinion

Yes, the reason for hating is because hating Nintendo is popular these days. There's you're reason, now stop throwing low blows like this, they won't help you at all. So shut it.
I'm not saying that you're opinion is absolutely wrong. Each person's taste about each console is different from others. I understand that, but it doesn't give the right for anyone to complain about other consoles(or the company making them, for that matter), because it's not like the console he/she prefers.
For example, you cannot say that liked Toy Story but hated the Incredibles, because it's not as good as the movie you liked personally.
Which brings back to my saying, that even opinions need reason, rationality and logic.
But that's my opinion anyways, so you're most likely going to ignore this and proceed to continue this arguement further.

Well go back and read the full argument or stop complaining

I'm getting tired of this, I request you lay out a short overall of you're argument and I'll do the same

P.S: I HAVE heard about most of those games, not many of them impress me, and I think most of them ARE revamps of old genre's

P.P.S: though it may be true that most of my listed games do little in the gameplay department, I think a few of them are exceptional in terms of storytelling

 

[Sion_Barzahd]

When i saw the title for this thread i thought it might be about the fact that Nintendo have pretty much abandoned their core of fans for their casual gamers.

Where there was once a company that seemed to take the opinions of its fans into consideration when developing games now shun the people that kept it going in the darker ages of gaming.

As for the OP: Well i think there has been a lot of innovation over the various series without too great a loss in the mechanics.

Just hope there is no more sonic sequels...

 

[Lord Beautiful]

Core gamers aren't being too hard on Nintendo. Nintendo's being too easy on itself.

 

[CriticalGriffin]

So much fanboy rage in this thread, its certainly given me a few chuckles.

What I have read can be boiled down to these points:

1) Many people, for a variety of reasons, dislike the Wii and thus Nintendo get dissed. Some of their opinions have been expressed here.

2) The fanboys (always rushing to a fight) feel somehow injured that other peoples dislike the Wii. To counter argument the fans make some big lists of Wii games they love as a counter to whatever opinions are proffered by the haters and repeat "I bet you haven't tried these games".

3) The haters come back and try to restate their views, sometimes angered by the fanboys' insistence that they are wrong.

4) One or two people try to post a reasoned argument, or attempt to point out that this thread is opinion and trying to change people's views through forums ALWAYS fails.

5) These people are ignored, steps 2 and 3 are repeated ad nauseum.

What have we learned here today children?

Ideally we learned that people are allowed to like or dislike whatever the hell they want.

More likely however is that the fanboys feel better for backing each other up and the haters feel disappointed that the fanboys won't let them state an opinion without a "yeah but".

The real lesson: The Wii is cool if you enjoy it, but that's no excuse for joining the fanboy collective. If you don't enjoy the Wii, that too is valid but you should never bait fanboys - it is like arguing with Christians (as in, you will be shouted down until they feel they have won).

...


You sir, are awesome.

That's why I'm gonna shut up now.


... But most of the Anti-Wii arguements here still sucks though. Just like the one below.

 

[XT inc]

Every game I have tried on the wii is either for toddlers, gma's or is all gimick. The one or two I did enjoy were awesome,but only in context of "for the wii" No more heros was awesome " for the wii," other wise the clunky controls would have tanked it on any next gen console. They constantly pull one up manship,only on their stuff. This is especially apparent in peripherals so now if any good games come out I need wii motion plus. Hell I can't even use the damn thing as a dvd player. What a waste of money.

 

[TheKwertyeweyoppe]

I don't hate nintendo or the wii, i hate the 3rd party developers who use the wii as a cheap way to release their terrible party game or whatever. The wii's graphics are a good example, they aren't as good as the other consoles but they are a lot better than people think. namely because people develop games and don't even try, because they just can't be bothered. especially when people make ports from other consoles and the only difference they make is a terrible motion gimmick and an epic graphic downgrade. and while i'm rambling on i think people should stop trying to make games with a realistic look on the wii, it just doesn't work. instead they should go for a different art style, like Okami or Red Steel 2(actually Okami was first for the playstation 2 but ignore that).

wow, that was a lot bigger than i expected it to be.

 

[Booze Zombie]

Their games just bore me, so, for me, no.

 

[ADDLibrarian]

Most of the people old enough to be the techo console Playstation freaks of today were yesterday's Nintendo, Mario playing kids. Maybe they think they're above their childhood or something, I dunno. But like a great Escapist once said "Nintendo doesn't need defending". Yahtzee's always right. ^^