Poll: Are murderers forgivable?
- Thread starter retyopy
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I can understand killing to stop a killer but not straight up cold blooded murder. The same for soldiers killing enemy forces in combat as opposed to soldiers murdering non-combatants.
Summed it up perfectly for me.spartan231490 said:
Unless you have some really good reason (Like, say... killing this person would stop all wars forever and bring about an everlasting world peace), there's no reason to kill someone in cold blood. Even if he did something to you that prompted you to such rage, you've basically lowered yourself to his level if you've killed him, and thus failed to avenge anything in the process.
Anyone is forgivable. And no doubt anyone reading this will immediately think of Hitler...
But the same stays true. Maybe if I was a Jew in a konzentrationslager, you could say that I would be blinded by rage or the desire for vengeance and thus unable to forgive... But no, your personal situation doesn't change the truth. Anyone can be forgiven.
Murderers - small-time in the eyes of the public when put next to serial killers - are no exception.
Anyone is "forgivable" while there is one person who can find it in them to forgive.
We are all equal at birth. How we grow up is the result of influences and pressures imposed on us along the way. But everyone has the same potential, regardless of how they wield it. If an innocent, therefore, can be forgiven for a small wrong, so too can a murderer.
But the same stays true. Maybe if I was a Jew in a konzentrationslager, you could say that I would be blinded by rage or the desire for vengeance and thus unable to forgive... But no, your personal situation doesn't change the truth. Anyone can be forgiven.
Murderers - small-time in the eyes of the public when put next to serial killers - are no exception.
Anyone is "forgivable" while there is one person who can find it in them to forgive.
We are all equal at birth. How we grow up is the result of influences and pressures imposed on us along the way. But everyone has the same potential, regardless of how they wield it. If an innocent, therefore, can be forgiven for a small wrong, so too can a murderer.
If it is a Murder because of blind-rage, like if the Murderer found his wife in bed with another man, then he can be forgiven, and likely will not murder again; But if it is someone going around killing for no reason at all, or someone that had planned a Murder for personal gane, then they should get the Chair.
Jebus! Ohkaaay, yet again I will be the voice that goes against the apathetic pulse.
NOOOOOOOO its not ok.
First off, lets touch on instances of killing someone for the greater good which seems to be the most popular justification. You have to ask yourself, who are you to judge what the greater good is? If you really need to understand how this works, look at all the Germans who followed Hitler in WW2. Much like the people in this thread they felt like many of these deaths (at least initially during Hitlers rise) that were for the greater good, as they were being attacked socially, economically and what was being done was done for the greater good of the people. People condemn Hitler at every possible chance but they seem to forget the fact that Hitler was not born the Ruler of Germany. Hitler did not forcibly seize power through military coup (again, at least initially). Hitler gained power through the support of the people, who believed what he was doing was for the greater good.
Seconly, We have language for a reason. You cant say "murder is OK if its self defense" because Self defense is not murder to begin with. Thats why we have terms like Manslaughter.
You know I am not saying this as some high and mighty ideologue. I say this as someone who was only a matter of inches from being murdered.
Simply put there is no time when murder is justifiable. If you can justify murder you can justify anything, no matter how heinous, and who exactly are we to play God in such a manner?
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NOOOOOOOO its not ok.
First off, lets touch on instances of killing someone for the greater good which seems to be the most popular justification. You have to ask yourself, who are you to judge what the greater good is? If you really need to understand how this works, look at all the Germans who followed Hitler in WW2. Much like the people in this thread they felt like many of these deaths (at least initially during Hitlers rise) that were for the greater good, as they were being attacked socially, economically and what was being done was done for the greater good of the people. People condemn Hitler at every possible chance but they seem to forget the fact that Hitler was not born the Ruler of Germany. Hitler did not forcibly seize power through military coup (again, at least initially). Hitler gained power through the support of the people, who believed what he was doing was for the greater good.
Seconly, We have language for a reason. You cant say "murder is OK if its self defense" because Self defense is not murder to begin with. Thats why we have terms like Manslaughter.
You know I am not saying this as some high and mighty ideologue. I say this as someone who was only a matter of inches from being murdered.
viranimus said:
and to this day, even though the guy who tried to end my life IS a danger to himself, and society I would never wish death upon him because its not my right to determine if he lives or dies. As someone who studies psychology, I see infinitely more cases of people using "justifible murder" and death sentences as a stop gap solution because we are unwilling to do the work or unwilling to bear the financial burdens of treating people properly.viranimus said:
Simply put there is no time when murder is justifiable. If you can justify murder you can justify anything, no matter how heinous, and who exactly are we to play God in such a manner?
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Seriously with parade of "Zombie apocalypses with a twist", "Am I the only one?" "Why all the hate" "Loosing faith in humanity" and any of the rest of the redundant threads we see on a daily basis, I love it when someone presents a topic that actually has some actual discussion value and does not basically exist as a "this is my answer" list. Kudos OP!I_am_a_Spoon said:
No, under any circumstances.
I don't really count the killing of someone who is dangerous to society as murder.
I don't really count the killing of someone who is dangerous to society as murder.
like everything else it surely depends on the circumstances. Example, a man murders his wife when he finds her cheating on him with another man. That would be a crime of passion, he didn't plot it, or conspire against her, he simply snapped and lashed out. This can happen to anyone, regardless of how cool and clear thinking they might be, he would very likely be heartbroken and devastated at what he'd done. Surely he should be forgiven, or at the very least given leniency as he's not a cold blooded killer, just an average man who lost control.
Conversely, a remorseless, plotted, cold blooded murder is much harder, if impossible, to forgive. He might have a good reason for killing his victim, like previously mentioned his partner may have cheated on him, however he had the opportunity to think it through, weigh the consequences of his actions. He made his decision, he had plenty of time to back out, and should be given little, if any, leniency. People like this are much harder to forgive, if forgivable at all.
Conversely, a remorseless, plotted, cold blooded murder is much harder, if impossible, to forgive. He might have a good reason for killing his victim, like previously mentioned his partner may have cheated on him, however he had the opportunity to think it through, weigh the consequences of his actions. He made his decision, he had plenty of time to back out, and should be given little, if any, leniency. People like this are much harder to forgive, if forgivable at all.
I disagree with the general consensus of "depends on why."
Is murder forgivable? I'd say yes. I'd say that all things are forgivable, no matter how terrible. No, I neither have proof, nor explaination for this.
Based on my experience and gut instinct, I'd say that the only time something is unforgivable is when the perpetrator doesn't want forgiveness. A man could bomb a building and kill a thousand people; their loved ones probably won't forgive him, but if he truely regrets the action, they could. Whereas a person could do so little as slapping you in the face, if they never care to be forgiven and would gladly do it again, you probably aren't ever going to think anything nice about them.
Is murder forgivable? I'd say yes. I'd say that all things are forgivable, no matter how terrible. No, I neither have proof, nor explaination for this.
Based on my experience and gut instinct, I'd say that the only time something is unforgivable is when the perpetrator doesn't want forgiveness. A man could bomb a building and kill a thousand people; their loved ones probably won't forgive him, but if he truely regrets the action, they could. Whereas a person could do so little as slapping you in the face, if they never care to be forgiven and would gladly do it again, you probably aren't ever going to think anything nice about them.
I know, wasnt calling you out for giving him shit. Honestly I think we could deal with a good deal more thought provoking threads because as of late weve had a lack of them. Better to have something on your mind than not a thought in your headI_am_a_Spoon said:
(Also, Im seeing a lack of scientific articles too I have noticed
Hey Escapist... If your looking for writers.. Gets us a Science reporter! )
hmm..."accidents" are, "murders" arent.
"assassinations" might be, there are too many variables to consider, so i'll say yes, depending on circumstances and reconciliations and stuff.
"assassinations" might be, there are too many variables to consider, so i'll say yes, depending on circumstances and reconciliations and stuff.
well if its justifiable homicide (ie the person was trying to kill them/their family) then straight away.
Since this is somewhat off-topic, I'll try to keep it brief, but I agree with you that pedophilia is a disorder which needs to be cured rather than condemned. Also interestingly when you look at the statistics (I found all mine through Wikipedia), between 3 and 9% of the population have the disorder but the estimated number of child abusers stands between 0.5 and 1%, the actual percentage of those convicted are less than a tenth of that. Add to that the fact that around 15% of child sexual abusers don't meet the psychological criteria for pedophilia and it appears then that only a minority of those attracted to children are actually weak enough to give into their urges. If we could find out why that percentage give in and how others don't, then maybe we could actually get to and treat potential abusers before they commit a crime.i7omahawki said:
OT: Depends on circumstances, if they were fully aware of their actions and not mitigated then I would find it hard to forgive, especially if the murder was unprovoked and/or pre-planned.
Strict rules are good for maintaining a society, but I don't like them in people. it depends on the circumstances if I am willing to forgive someone. But are you seriously saying you think a man who kills a burglar a worse person than, say, Joseph Fritzl?